Lilly sues India firm to block Stratt...

Lilly sues India firm to block Strattera copy

There are 149 comments on the The Indianapolis Star story from Sep 24, 2007, titled Lilly sues India firm to block Strattera copy. In it, The Indianapolis Star reports that:

Indianapolis-based Eli Lilly and Co. sued India's Sun Pharmaceutical Industries Ltd.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Indianapolis Star.

BobR

United States

#140 Oct 15, 2007
Not having a father around helping to financially and emotionally support the family just might be a big time stressor for you and your daughters. I wonder if there's a correlation between single parent families and ADHD/childhood bipolar/etc.
sounds good

Leesburg, FL

#141 Oct 15, 2007
a single mom wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok smarty pants, how long does it take to come down off the drugs? You posted the quote above to me on Sept. 24th and it's now Oct. 15th. When am I going to see improvement? Why is she getting worse instead of better? Come on! She's been on the diet and taking fish oil since stopping the stimulants. I want to you cure my child since you are god. Come on! I can't take it much longer!!
I'm not god, and I'm glad you have her off of the drugs. Most of the doctors suggest tapering them off depending on what drug it is.Being a parent is the most demanding job on the planet. It does not get the recognition it used to. Mothers used to be highly appreciated. You must have some questions if you have decided to seek an alternative to the meds.There are doctors who will help her detox.Each person is different and it depends what drugs and what dose. I will help you find one if you like.
sounds good

Leesburg, FL

#142 Oct 15, 2007
humor me here wrote:
Alright folks, calm down. Strattera is a reasonable drug in cases of ADD, especially for adults. It is a hit-or-miss thing, it doesn't work for everyone, but is effective for some. I am one of the ones it works for.
As far as children, I have kids that are medicated, some that should be and won't take it, and most don't need it. I've had lots of experience here, folks. It's really difficult to stomach someone else trying to tell you how to raise your kids--especially when they aren't pros in the field. That has rankled me in the past, and would today, if I paid any attention to them.
Look. The old saw about having theories about childrearing until you have them is true here. No one has the right to tell me how to raise my children--except my chosen health care provider and maybe my parents.
So, get off the fire and brimstone trip, and let's live our lives as well as we can.
Strattera is a little problematic when I skip a dose or stop taking it. It's a wild ride for about 24 hrs. The mood swings are brutal
But it's really worth it. Had 50 jobs in my life and I blow through them in a few months or a year or two. This drug helps.
Did you watch this video?http://video.google.com/ videoplay?docid=-3609599239524 875493

“Single mom of 2”

Since: Feb 07

De Soto, KS

#143 Oct 15, 2007
My daughter was tapered off the adderall while she was in the hospital for going off on manic rages. They said that the stimulants was making her bipolar worse so yes it was ended. They do have her on 2 mood stabilizers, but very low doses while we await results from a bunch of tests they want to do. She has a new pdoc and he wants to see exactly what he is dealing with before he does anything else with her meds. You can see both her ADHD and Bipolar on a daily basis. Since symptoms of ADHD and mania overlap, that is why they don't want to medicate until they know exactly. All I know is she is not functioning well at all anymore and is close to being hospitalized again. She cycles many times a day and can go from manic to depressive on a dime.

No, I don't think her disorder(s) has anything to do with my being a single mom. Both ADHD and Bipolar run heavy on her father's side of the family. His manic rages and refusal to get help is what broke us up and why he has had no contact with her since she was 3. I also have a 4 year old son and he is nothing like his sister. He was born premature and has some minor developmental delays and is diagnosed with receptive/expressive language disorder but has made huge progress. He has a different father so I know for a fact that he will not get either of these disorders since they do not run on his father's side or mine.
cathy

Leesburg, FL

#144 Oct 15, 2007
BobR wrote:
<quoted text>
Your daughter was diagnosed with bipolar, so I presume her doctor took her off Ritalin and put her on another medication. Are you trying to say she's off ALL medications? Look at the stressors in her life and a correlation with her symptoms, I suspect undesirable behavior FOLLOWS stressors, and the behavior creates more stressors. It's a vicious cycle that feeds on itself, medications simply conceal the problem for the short term. Later, frequently when medications are removed and the stressors catch up, and behavior gets really bad, like shooting up the school. From your attitude it shocks me that you and your daughter's doctor took her off all medications and put her on fish oil. I'll bet she's on at least one powerful "antipsychotic" or "mood stabilizer".
When I went to elementary school, all the doors were unlocked all day, the janitors locked the doors when school ended at 4pm, and I always felt safe. Today every door is locked all the time and cameras watch everyone who comes and goes. Today's schools resemble mini-fortresses, with students searched as they enter. Something is really wrong in schools today and it's time to really solve the problems, not just use drugs to sweep problems under the rug.
If you can help just one child it is worth it!
BobR

Des Plaines, IL

#145 Oct 15, 2007
a Single Mom-
Your situation raising 2 children sounds extremely difficult, especially with a disruptive child and having taken abuse from your ex-husband. I am familiar with a 69 year-old man who is suffering from an array of disorders, including severe alcohol dependence. He hasn't had any contact with his father since he was 4, and was raised by his mother who worked full time, and a teenage aunt. The descriptions of how he was treated by his father are horiffic, things that would be felony child abuse today. Although he never says anything about his father, he talks about memories from an exceptionally early age, about the time he was recieving the abuse. His performance in school was poor, and his attendance was dismal, being ill for weeks at a time. It is possible that the illnesses were a cover to avoid going to school.

His rages and hatred are extreme, he is constantly talking about killing this person and that. For decades he was petrified to go out in public, and just sat around drinking most of the time. He went to the store to buy beer exactly when it opened so fewer people would see him. From this experience, it appears that early childhood experiences can leave an emotional scar that lasts for life.

Your description of your daughter's rapid cycling sounds like bipolar-mixed episode, where depression and mania occur at the same time. I don't believe that it is ever possible to come up with an "exact" diagnosis. Symptoms of autism, aspergers, ADHD, OCD, bipolar, intermittent explosive disorder and others overlap on many symptoms. From my experince, a combination of fear and frustration are the real causes of my anger outbursts. Medications prevented outbursts when situations developed, largely by producing sedation and apathy. While taking "antipsychotic" medications, really scary outbursts would occur out of the blue without any warning. Good luck finding something that works for your daughter, I would suggest trying to talk to her and figure out what her fears and frustrations are and trying to reduce them.

Bobbysgirl

Fleming, GA

#146 Oct 15, 2007
a single mom,
I feel so badly for you. I was a single mother for a time myself, and it can be terrifying. It is particularly so when your child has a medical issue and you are solely responsible for making decisions about his or her care. Scary stuff.

I can tell you that the adderall, etc., will absolutely bring on manic episodes, even in people who are not technically bipolar. I don't know what meds she should be one, and I am so sad for her and the rest of your family.
I do know that I would NEVER put her on zyprexa because there is no reason to do so. The older, cheaper antipsychotics are just as good--as studies have shown--and do not carry the same risk for diabetes and other complications.

I know they have risks of their own, but nothing to compare to zyprexa.

Any of the add meds are going to cause mania as they are stimulants. The idea of giving her one, then giving her something to stablize the effects, is what I hear docs tend to do. It just doesn't really seem logical to me to take one to send you up, one to send you down, one to send you sideways...
I don't know what you should do, but I pray God will lead you where you need to go and bring peace to you and your children.
All the best.

“Single mom of 2”

Since: Feb 07

De Soto, KS

#147 Oct 16, 2007
Thank you Bobbysgirl! I really like her new pdoc and the fact that he doesn't just throw drugs at her like her old one did. I feel he is the right doctor to get her stable. I just hope it doesn't take too much longer because in the past she was an honor roll student and now she is failing all her major classes :(.

Since: Oct 07

Flemington, NJ

#149 Oct 16, 2007
a single mom,
Have you tried adding a Meditation cd to her routine, something like Holosync from Centerpointe? If you go to their web site www.centerpointe.com and fill out some info they will send you a free introductory cd. I know it helps for some kids, It helped me, and there are no drawbacks to it. Might be helpful to add it to the treatment suggested by her Doc! I found that it helped me study at first, but now that I have been doing it for awhile, my mental state seems to be more even throughout the day! It might prove helpful for you too! Being a single mom isn't easy!

Since: Aug 07

Kokomo, IN

#150 Oct 16, 2007
sounds good wrote:
<quoted text>Did you watch this video?http://video.google.com/ videoplay?docid=-3609599239524 875493
Alright, you had me there until Michael Moore popped up on the screen and I got nauseous and had to stop. Sorry, I'm allergic to him.

Well, ok. I do agree that it is scary that many physicians start the ADHD/ADD protocol by administering drugs. "psychotropic drugs" as the film stated over and over.

There may be over-use, over-dependence, and yes, some non pharmacological strategies should be tried and aren't because they aren't "convenient."

In many cases, a good dose of consistent, loving discipline may be all that is necessary. It was for me and many of my 50 year old friends.

One thing I noticed that was incorrect in the film: A lady said when she was a kid, none of her friends used drugs for behavior. That may be true, but boy the moms sure did! "Mother's little helper?" More tranquilizers were dispensed at that time ('60's) than at any other time in history.

Anyway, Your point is well taken.

Drugs are useful, but only after other protocols such as diet, behavior modification, and environmental factors are adjusted. Would you go with that?

“Single mom of 2”

Since: Feb 07

De Soto, KS

#151 Oct 16, 2007
ADHDGrl wrote:
a single mom,
Have you tried adding a Meditation cd to her routine, something like Holosync from Centerpointe? If you go to their web site www.centerpointe.com and fill out some info they will send you a free introductory cd. I know it helps for some kids, It helped me, and there are no drawbacks to it. Might be helpful to add it to the treatment suggested by her Doc! I found that it helped me study at first, but now that I have been doing it for awhile, my mental state seems to be more even throughout the day! It might prove helpful for you too! Being a single mom isn't easy!
She does use music to help her calm down when she gets upset. Sometimes it's hard to get her to do it when in the middle of a breakdown, but once in her room, she turns the music up loud and within 20 minutes she is calm and acts like nothing happened. I may have to check out that cd and see if it helps out. Thanks!
BobR

Des Plaines, IL

#154 Oct 16, 2007
Bobbysgirl wrote:
I do know that I would NEVER put her on zyprexa because there is no reason to do so. The older, cheaper antipsychotics are just as good--as studies have shown--and do not carry the same risk for diabetes and other complications.
I know they have risks of their own, but nothing to compare to zyprexa.
.
I have taken the major "typical" antipsychotics, Prolixin, Haldol and Thorazine. The side effects are awful, and they carry a risk of tardive diskenesia and a higher risk of neuroleptic malignant syndrome. Prolixin caused substantial weight gain over 5 months, and led to a nearly suicidal depression. Fortunately my Haldol and Thorazine experience was only a few weeks, and I am definetely not a member of the Thorazine or Haldol fan club.

Look at your who daughters friends are, what activities may have changed, and if she is 12 or 13, this is probably a predictable reaction. Starting long term drug therapy for what might be a short term problem could lead to the kind of disaster that bobbysgirl suffered. Good luck finding a strategy for helping your daughter return to the way she was.
BobR

Des Plaines, IL

#155 Oct 16, 2007
a single mom wrote:
<quoted text>
She does use music to help her calm down when she gets upset. Sometimes it's hard to get her to do it when in the middle of a breakdown, but once in her room, she turns the music up loud and within 20 minutes she is calm and acts like nothing happened. I may have to check out that cd and see if it helps out. Thanks!
Perhaps you could find other things she likes to do in her room while cooling down, and buy her a new CD or something for each week she behaves well in school. Positive rewards for good behavior frequently have better results than punishment. Punishment can lead to rumination, distrust and other negative emotions and is frequently very counterproductive.

“Single mom of 2”

Since: Feb 07

De Soto, KS

#156 Oct 16, 2007
BobR wrote:
<quoted text>
Look at your who daughters friends are, what activities may have changed, and if she is 12 or 13, this is probably a predictable reaction. Starting long term drug therapy for what might be a short term problem could lead to the kind of disaster that bobbysgirl suffered. Good luck finding a strategy for helping your daughter return to the way she was.
This is not typical teenager antics here! You can see it in her eyes and hear it in her voice that this child's mind in sick. She is no longer depressed, she has cycled back up again. She couldn't sleep last night. She woke up at 2am and couldn't go back to sleep. She didn't wake me up so I had no idea and she messed around on the computer all night and was looking at porn (hyper-sexuality!). Her case worker saw her at school this morning and said she is VERY manic. At least she's in a good mood huh?
Bobbysgirl

Fleming, GA

#157 Oct 16, 2007
BobR wrote:
<quoted text>
I have taken the major "typical" antipsychotics, Prolixin, Haldol and Thorazine. The side effects are awful, and they carry a risk of tardive diskenesia and a higher risk of neuroleptic malignant syndrome. Prolixin caused substantial weight gain over 5 months, and led to a nearly suicidal depression. Fortunately my Haldol and Thorazine experience was only a few weeks, and I am definetely not a member of the Thorazine or Haldol fan club.
Look at your who daughters friends are, what activities may have changed, and if she is 12 or 13, this is probably a predictable reaction. Starting long term drug therapy for what might be a short term problem could lead to the kind of disaster that bobbysgirl suffered. Good luck finding a strategy for helping your daughter return to the way she was.
I stand corrected and I apologize. You are right about such things as haldol...I have seen pts on haldol and it is very, very sad.
I think therapies such as guided imagery, relaxation therapy, and the like are grossly UNDERRATED. I believed until a few weeks ago that I would simply drop-dead-die if I were not on an antidepressant for my severe depression. I have often been suicidal, my life situation is no less tragic than it was a few months ago, but I am now OFF all of them except St. John's Wort.
I would have told you that you were crazy if you'd ever told me St. John's wort could help my depression when it has been SO SEVERE over the years. I do have moments several times a day when something really sad or upsetting comes to mind, but I am remembering years of therapy when I was told ways to "talk myself thru it". So far, it's working. And I LOVVVVVVE not giving drug companies my money for antidepressants.
BobR

Des Plaines, IL

#158 Oct 16, 2007
The only 2 medications that I'm still on are stimulants, or "antidepressants", Wellbutrin and caffine. The side effects are mild and since I take all of the Wellbutrin in the morning, and cut off caffine in the afternoon, it may help with my sleeping pattern. To avoid mania and agitation from the stimulants, I just pull back on the throttle to relax and take it easy. I would love to be off everything, but that would be tough, especially for caffine, which is everywhere. I have always had a very strict policy about alcohol, tobacco and drugs, NEVER use ANY. With my emotional problems, using any of these substances would have been a disaster. From my experience with prescription psychotropics, I can see the trap of taking medication after medication to counteract the effect of the previous medication. Psychiatrists rarely consider removing medications, they don't get perks from drug reps for doing that.

BobR

Des Plaines, IL

#159 Oct 16, 2007
a single mom wrote:
<quoted text>
This is not typical teenager antics here! You can see it in her eyes and hear it in her voice that this child's mind in sick. She is no longer depressed, she has cycled back up again. She couldn't sleep last night. She woke up at 2am and couldn't go back to sleep. She didn't wake me up so I had no idea and she messed around on the computer all night and was looking at porn (hyper-sexuality!). Her case worker saw her at school this morning and said she is VERY manic. At least she's in a good mood huh?
Teenagers notoriously poor judgement compounded by bipolar or ADHD must be extremely distressing to live with. I don't know how you can go to sleep at night and not knowing what you'll find in the morning, it has to be really tough. Have you tried having a family member she trusts hav a really long talk with her to find out what her problems and concerns are? When I think of how I was in elementary school, I can't imagine how I would deal with a child like that. When I was having a problem in 6th grade with a girl, the school did exactly the wrong thing by reducing my school day and leaving me in classes with her. Perhaps reducing her school day to just classes where she is less stressed might help. It's really tough to come up with suggestions, treating her kindly and reducing stress may be the best strategy, good luck.

“Single mom of 2”

Since: Feb 07

De Soto, KS

#160 Oct 16, 2007
The school is in the process of testing her to see if she qualifies as disabled under IDEA and then we will discuss if she will get an IEP. Once we get to that point, I am going to ask for a reduced school day and ways they can reduce her stress.

Yes, many people have tried talking with her to see what her problems and concerns are. She is so disconnected right now that she honestly doesn't know. All I know is that right now she hates anyone who is an authority figure in her life and loves being manic. She doesn't like it when she's depressed and not understanding why she cries so much. She is glad that since starting on the Seroquel she is no longer having hallucinations and hearing voices and no longer has urges to hurt herself. She does want to get better, but at the same time, she doesn't want to give up that feeling that her mania gives her, kwim.
BobR

Chicago, IL

#161 Oct 17, 2007
a single mom wrote:
The school is in the process of testing her to see if she qualifies as disabled under IDEA and then we will discuss if she will get an IEP. Once we get to that point, I am going to ask for a reduced school day and ways they can reduce her stress.
Yes, many people have tried talking with her to see what her problems and concerns are. She is so disconnected right now that she honestly doesn't know. All I know is that right now she hates anyone who is an authority figure in her life and loves being manic. She doesn't like it when she's depressed and not understanding why she cries so much. She is glad that since starting on the Seroquel she is no longer having hallucinations and hearing voices and no longer has urges to hurt herself. She does want to get better, but at the same time, she doesn't want to give up that feeling that her mania gives her, kwim.
Your daughter's situation sounds similar to where I was 30 years ago. Throughout elementary school, I was wild and out of control, but I calmed down dramatically at 15 when I entered high school. Seroquel, which I took from 2002 to early 2007, wasn't the greatest at containing mania for me. When I reduced or skipped doses, mania could break through. When dosing throughout the day I was tired and depressed all the time, which was unbearable. Taking the entire dose in the evening created a pattern where I would feel awful in the morning and better as the day went on. When I quit cold turkey from about 300mg, the hypersexual rebound was dramatic for months, and is still a factor 6 months later. Beware of this whenever your daghter's medication is reduced. I tolerated Seroquel reasonably well for 4 years, however during the 5th year the side effects were gradually becoming worse. Endurance was reduced by half, bladder and bowel control were deteriorating and appetite control was all but lost. No single side effect was that bad, however taken together, Seroquel was becoming unbearable.

My strategy has been to recognize when hypomania is going too far and cutting back. Over the last 6 months, since quitting all medications, this has become almost automatic and I have been able to steer a reasonably stable course between depression and mania. The problem is that this has occured only after decades of long depressions and occasional hypomanias, and it doesn't sound like your daughter would be able to recognize early symptoms and make adjustments. Medications are the easy way out, however the long term side effects, including withdrawl, greatly outweigh the short term benefits.

Hopefully the strategy of reducing your daughter's school day and other stimulation, along with a regular exercise program and stable diet will reduce the mania without bringing on depression. I learned the hard way that things like learning the material in school are secondary to dealing with these kinds of problems. Once your daughter improves, it will always be possible to make up anything she missed. Unfortunately for me, it took 35 years to figure that out.
Here We Go Again

United States

#162 Oct 18, 2007
You do understand that the people who are selling the generic pill for so much less didn't have to spend millions of dollars in research and development to make the drug right??? Drug companies are making a profit just like every other company out there but they also have HUGE expenses to come up with the drugs and make them safe. People complain about the cost but then also complain when there isn't enough R&D to know what all the side effects might be before bringing to market....you can't have it both ways.
georgia wrote:
Oh, my how awful if Lilly looses a few million. What about the everyday person who can only afford the generic drugs. I have one pill that costs me 90.00 the got a generic and not it's only 32. per month. The very same pill!!! shows you how much the drug compies care about us. There people might not get a new jet this year if we let someone make a generic so we can afford them.

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