Israeli scientist becomes 4th female Nobel chemistry prize winner,

[mohammed Lion of God]

Zinfab wrote:

<quoted text>

I don't defend the murder of innocents. I believe that any military action Israel takes should be done with all reasonable efforts to minimize civilian casualties. Apparantly Israel agrees with me, which is why they made such an effort to give advanced warning by leaflets, phone calls and text messaging in the last military operations in Gaza and Lebanon, to warn citizens in advance to give them the opportunity to protect themselves.
I don't claim they're perfect, they're not, but they're clearly better than the guys who purposefully target civilians while purposefully putting their own people in harms way just to pad the numbers for propaganda purposes.

in Lebanon, Hezbollah evacuated all the populated border-towns and large swathes of Beirut ... that didnt stop you from killing over 1000 of them far from the frontlines .... even in cities NOT controlled by Hezbollah, the civilians saw no safety.

and the number of israeli civilians killed by Hezbollah compared with the number of israeli troops killed by Hezbollah shows that civilians wernt our targets, although we could have easily killed a good number of the israeli civilians who are living right on the border with Lebanon in settlements that are within gunrange ( let alone rocket-range ) and are not seperated from us except by grass and a little coil of barbed wire , with no guards in sight ...

and dont tell me that you protected your civilians ... thier shelters could easily be torn apart by the heavy rockets that were focused by the dozens each day on your military targets ... shooting the northern settlements would have been much easier, and God prevented your army from preventing the rocket barrage * uptil the last day of the war *...

[mohammed Lion of God]

Zinfab wrote:

<quoted text>
....

another thing ...:

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/cur_sit/child-...

:

By Chris McGreal
UK Guardian
November 24, 2004

" An Israeli army officer who repeatedly shot a 13-year-old Palestinian girl in Gaza dismissed a warning from another soldier that she was a child by saying he would have killed her even if she was three years old.

The officer, identified by the army only as Captain R, was charged this week with illegal use of his weapon, conduct unbecoming an officer and other relatively minor infractions after emptying all 10 bullets from his gun’s magazine into Iman al-Hams when she walked into a “security area” on the edge of Rafah refugee camp last month. "


" Operations room:“Are we talking about a girl under the age of 10?”

Watchtower:“A girl of about 10, she’s behind the embankment, scared to death.”

A few minutes later, Iman is shot in the leg from one of the army posts.

The watchtower:“I think that one of the positions took her out.”

The company commander then moves in as Iman lies wounded and helpless.

Captain R:“I and another soldier ... are going in a little nearer, forward, to confirm the kill ... Receive a situation report. We fired and killed her ... I also confirmed the kill. Over.”

Witnesses described how the captain shot Iman twice in the head, walked away, turned back and fired a stream of bullets into her body. Doctors at Rafah’s hospital said she had been shot at least 17 times.

On the tape, the company commander then “clarifies” why he killed Iman:“This is commander. Anything that’s mobile, that moves in the zone, even if it’s a three-year-old, needs to be killed. Over.” "

i mentioned this case to Lipush, and asked her 3 questions which she didnt reply to :

" she wasnt killed from the first shot, so why didnt he arrest her when he came up to her ?

and after he successfuly accomplished his mission (the holiness of which is something which no one dares question, seeing to the amount of extreme bravery required to carry it out)
, why wasnt he accused of murder for this crime, which if committed by a Palestinian, might have been sufficient grounds for a war ? maybe he was just punished for not tearing her eyes out before he finally killed her ... "

owing to your expertise, maybe you could have better luck answering them ? or do you want to see your psychologist first ?

so which is worse, being a bigot , or actively supporting people who commit such acts ( aside from Sabra and Shatilla, which had 5000 victims, aside from the 20 000 killed in Beirut alone during the invasion of the 1980's )?

you drink the blood of innocents, and then you denounce any objections to be acts of bigotry ...

[Zinfab]

mohammed Lion of God wrote:

<quoted text>
" An Israeli army officer who repeatedly shot a 13-year-old Palestinian girl in Gaza dismissed a warning from another soldier that she was a child by saying he would have killed her even if she was three years old.

That's awful.

If that telling of the story is true, then "Captain R" belings in prison.

However I will point out that any individual horror committed by an Israeli doesn't mean that the Israeli people don't deserve peace and security any more than any individual horror committed by a Palestinian means that the Palestinian people as a whole don't deserve peace, autonomy and security. I say that even though for the Palestinians, committing atrocities is the policy of their leaders and not an aberration of an individual under their command.

I will also point out that I already know of this story, and "Captain R" is a Bedouin Arab. That's something that the anti-Israel propagandists are careful never to mention.

[Lipush]

mohammed Lion of God wrote:

<quoted text>
" God is on the side of those who don't wish bad things or think bad thoughts. "
in that case He surely isnt with israel !

Maybe not, but he is with the ISRAELI CHILDREN, and the Jews around the world

[Lipush]

mohammed Lion of God wrote:

<quoted text>
oh, and what did Maverick and the others hear that provoked them into throwing such words ?
and can you provide the link in which Maverick declared that he wants to commit a genocide against the jews ?
concerning the case of the talmud-quotes, what if i told you that Lipush herself admitted that they arent fake , and never argued with thier authenticity ?
if you would argue against those quotes after hearing what Lipush has to say of them , i would seriously think that you have perceptional and even moral lapses that require a specialist in the field of psychiatry to fully solve.
here :
Lipush, post # 656 ( http://www.topix.net/forum/world/T1SVGPR2UCTF... )
" ...
Even if the Talmud is treating hardly to non JEws, is because of CHristianity and Islam's veiws of Jews.
Christians and Muslims killed Jews, so why the Rabbies of Israel not thing of them as animels?! "
do you know what prompted her to make that confession ? i showed them a bunch of talmud quotes ... quotes that supported child-rape, quotes that said that Jesus was boiling in a cauldron in hell, and more.

Quotes = LIES.

[clinicly one]

sweet

[mohamed lion of God]

Zinfab wrote:

<quoted text>
That's awful.
If that telling of the story is true, then "Captain R" belings in prison.
However I will point out that any individual horror committed by an Israeli doesn't mean that the Israeli people don't deserve peace and security any more than any individual horror committed by a Palestinian means that the Palestinian people as a whole don't deserve peace, autonomy and security. I say that even though for the Palestinians, committing atrocities is the policy of their leaders and not an aberration of an individual under their command.

true, in the same way that innocent German Nazi civilians ( even those of them who supported the holocaust, without actually being involved in *anything besides thier ordinary daily civilian life*) deserve a life of peace and prosperity, that the solidity of which ensures its continuation through thier coming generations, the israeli civilians also deserve the same ...

we hope that the israelis will get plenty of it back in thier own home-countries from which they migrated from.

as for the thousands of them who took part in the massacres against our civilians, they deserve to receive what they have inflicted on our innocents ... they deserve it, but it remains to be seen if they will actually get it or not ... who knows, maybe they will get what is even worse ...

and the 'atrocities' of the palestinians are much less than yours, for one thing, for another thing, thier ability to control thier armed members is much less than yours, because you've done a good job of making thier communications difficult ... even in the best of thier days back in the 1970's, they had major trouble convincing thier members to oby orders ( carlos the jackal is reputed to have been expelled from a Palestinian organisation because of that habit )...

on the other hand, your army is highly efficient in terms of communication ... nothing happens without orders ( or at least a go-ahead given before-hand by higher authority ). notice, the punishment that was received by that child-killing captain was much lighter than the official punishment for such a crime ... and this easy sentence wasnt given because of lack of evidence ... its quite clear that the authorities involved were happy with what he did, and simply gave him a slight reprimand ... nothing more ... maybe they reprimanded him for not disembowling her first , but made sure that their harshness is limited out of admiration for his ' courage '

he's an arab, you say ?

the israeli article never disclosed any detail of the captains identity, let alone whether or not he was an arab ...

if there is an another israeli article that does disclose his ethnicity, then by all means show it to us.

assume that he is an arab...what about the jews who massacred
20 000 civilians in beirut during the invasion of the 1980's ?

[mohamed lion of God]

Zinfab wrote:

<quoted text>
....

read these quotes from some of your oficers, certain glorious manifestation of the heroicism of whom will be discussed in another post, God willing :

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/cur_sit/crying...

'Shooting and crying'

by Amos Harel (israeli military correspondent)
Haaretz (an israeli newspaper),
March 32, 2009 :

" ... One mother and her two children didn't understand and went to the left, but they forgot to tell the sharpshooter on the roof they had let them go, and it was was okay and he should hold his fire and he ... he did what he was supposed to, like he was following his orders."

Question from the audience: "At what range was this?"

Ram: "Between 100 and 200 meters, something like that.... "

"

" Aviv: "I am squad commander of a company that is still in training, from the Givati Brigade. We went into a neighborhood in the southern part of Gaza City. Altogether, this is a special experience. In the course of the training, you wait for the day you will go into Gaza, and in the end it isn't really like they say it is. It's more like, you come, you take over a house, you kick the tenants out and you move in. We stayed in a house for something like a week. " "

...

"At first the specified action was to go into a house. We were supposed to go in with an armored personnel carrier called an Achzarit [literally, Cruel] to burst through the lower door, to start shooting inside and then ... I call this murder ... in effect, we were supposed to go up floor by floor, and any person we identified - we were supposed to shoot. I initially asked myself: Where is the logic in this? "
...

"And then I try to explain to the guy that not everyone who is in there is a terrorist, and that after he kills, say, three children and four mothers, we'll go upstairs and kill another 20 or so people. And in the end it turns out that [there are] eight floors times five apartments on a floor - something like a minimum of 40 or 50 families that you murder. "

"One of our officers, a company commander, saw someone coming on some road, a woman, an old woman. She was walking along pretty far away, but close enough so you could take out someone you saw there. If she were suspicious, not suspicious - I don't know. In the end, he sent people up to the roof, to take her out with their weapons. From the description of this story, I simply felt it was murder in cold blood."

and tell me that these guys are arabs ?... they should be taken to prison you say ?

oh, you want them to be the *heads* of the prisons, as a reward for protecting the jewish state from a few women and children ( a grave threat, as anyone who has given audience to a noisy child will immediately attest to )

in that article one of the officers complains of " how much the IDF has fallen in the realm of ethics " , he didnt say the " idf's troops" , he named the idf as a cohesive entity ... that entity * does not * operate on its own, without directives from above ... and some of those who are above are actually former high-ranking members of the idf ( israeli defense force , your army )... so these cases are more of a policy that the state is responsible ( and might pay the price ) for, rather than a problem with discipline amongst idividual troops.

[mohamed lion of God]

Lipush wrote:

<quoted text>
Maybe not, but he is with the ISRAELI CHILDREN, and the Jews around the world

you said that " God is on the side of those who don't wish bad things or think bad thoughts. "

in accordance with that , if the israeli children have no bad thoughts , then He is with them ... NOT with the state (or the organisations) that brought thier fathers to the area after evicting and massacring the Palestinians just a few decades ago ... of course your 'god' would love such idea, because he is satan himself ...

our squabble is with your state and army, NOT your children ... your leaders may consider child-killing to be a good weapon, but we're different, we're gentiles remember.

[mohamed lion of God]

Lipush wrote:

<quoted text>
Quotes = LIES.

you said this :

" Even if the Talmud is treating hardly to non JEws, is because of CHristianity and Islam's veiws of Jews.
Christians and Muslims killed Jews, so why the Rabbies of Israel not thing of them as animels?! "

now you're saying this :

" Quotes = LIES. "

why did you change your statement ? if you think it is just a lie, why didnt you say that from the start ... why did you defend the talmud's depraved orders , only to come now to deny thier authenticity ?

ive said it before, and i'll say it again ... just bring me , from the recognized authorities that represent the jewish faith, an official statment that denies the authenticity of those specific quotes, and i will never mention them again.

its that simple ... but non of you have done it ... why ? because it seems that the quotes are truly present in the talmud !

[mohamed lion of God]

Rick Moss wrote:

Did he say LION of god or LOIN of god? I'm confused

if you wernt sitting on the loins of a pop-god , you wouldnt have been confused to the rate that you cant tell between those two letters ...

[christian atheist girl]

he he very funny.

[Zinfab]

mohamed lion of God wrote:

<quoted text>
as for the thousands of them who took part in the massacres against our civilians, they deserve to receive what they have inflicted on our innocents ... they deserve it, but it remains to be seen if they will actually get it or not ... who knows, maybe they will get what is even worse ...

You really should be a bit less revenge obsessed. Let's be honest; if Arabs got everything they "deserved" it would be a blood-bath like none other. I don't wish that on your people no matter what kinds of crueltys have been done in the past.

mohamed lion of God wrote:

<quoted text>
he's an arab, you say ?

the israeli article never disclosed any detail of the captains identity, let alone whether or not he was an arab ...

if there is an another israeli article that does disclose his ethnicity, then by all means show it to us.

He's not Bedouin, he's Druze. My mistake.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middl...

[christian atheist girl]

Zinfab wrote:

<quoted text>
You really should be a bit less revenge obsessed. Let's be honest; if Arabs got everything they "deserved" it would be a blood-bath like none other. I don't wish that on your people no matter what kinds of crueltys have been done in the past.
<quoted text>
He's not Bedouin, he's Druze. My mistake.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middl...

I FULLY AGREE ARABS HAVE BEEN DOING NOTHING ELSE BUT CRIMES SINCE THE BEGINING OF ISLAMIC RELIGION WHICH CAUSED ALL THAT.

[mohamed lion of God]

Zinfab wrote:

<quoted text>
You really should be a bit less revenge obsessed. Let's be honest; if Arabs got everything they "deserved" it would be a blood-bath like none other. I don't wish that on your people no matter what kinds of crueltys have been done in the past.
<quoted text>
He's not Bedouin, he's Druze. My mistake.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middl...

and you should be less pro-crime, going to every length to justify abominations that the despicability of which is equal to that of the nazis with every possible justification that foolishness could produce.

if the murdered child was a jewish child murdered by a european soldier working for Lebanon, operating under its military regulations, and cleared by the Lebanese , would you consider it an obsession for revenge if you were to advocate punishing the perpetrator ?

fine, that soldier was a druze, what about the jews who killed twenty thousand in beirut in the 1980's? they're all druze as well ? secretly hiding thier faith maybe ?

Sharon was indicted by your own authorities of being responsible for the sabra/shatilla massacres ... tell me that he's a Druze ?

what about the others who sniped at women and children in gaza ?
where they all druze as well ?

do you want to read thier testimonies again ?

you enjoy it apparently , and you might find it a source of greater enjoyment if you were the one pulling the trigger, after which you would ascribe the rank of " bigotry " , " anti - semitism " , or ( God Forbid ) the rank of being " revenge obsessed " on anyone who isnt willing to acknowledge the immaculate courage that was revealed by these manifest heroics .

about the arab's " crimes " ... firstly, most of the nations that the arabs have wronged have paid back thier dues and have resolved most of thier issues with them since quite a while.

Furthermore, your current palestinian victims have no involvement whatsoever with the criminals of old ... todays Palestinians have nothing to do with the horrors that Baibars al-Bandukdari inflicted upon the europeans of Antioch ( after which he sent a letter to the absent ruler of Antioch in which some of the atrocities were detailed )...

besides that, the problems between the non-arabs produced atrocities that even the jews might consider to be a bit disgusting ... we didnt hack up Viskovaty alive in the 1500's , Ivan the Terrible did ... we didnt impale a few thousand men, women and children on stakes, Vlad Tepes of Romania did ... more non-arabs died at each others hands, than by the arabs.

[mohamed lion of God]

secondly,

jews were rarely victims of arabs ( before the troubles in Palestine ), and if you would review any history book that deals with the matter, there's a good chance that it would tell you that the jews fled from Christian persecution to live in Moslem lands during the middle ages ...

even Martin Luther ( the reverred Protestant reformist, and not the civil rights activist of the 1960's ) had some very potent venom to spew at the jews, yet you have no problem prostrating yourselves to the protestants.

even in the holocaust, those who burned , stripped, and gassed you sat safe and sound after the war, releived of thier initial worries ( concerning your reaction in the case of an allied victory ) when they saw you rushing to burn the palestinians instead of them ( probably a result of a moral lapse amongst the Yeshuv )... worse, the West recruited good numbers of nazi officers in the intelligence-warfare efforts exerted against the soviets.


if the treatment you show to your tormentors is so courteous, why was the uncivilised side of your behavior shown so generously to those who have done you no harm ?

is it because they were weak , and had neither the weaponry nor the organisational strength to use it efficienty ?

is it because they didnt scare you off by partaking in hitler's little problem-solving efforts that he employed to deal with his misunderstandings with you?

apparently you beleive that our worst crime was our faliure to partake in massacring you during the middle-ages ... i hope im wrong .

in any case, i sincerely hope that your children will discover that the Palestinians and Nazis are two different races who dont live on the same continent, who dont observe the same religious rites, and who didnt share a hatred for the jews ( that was present only in the nazis ), and that Fate can do to the jews of israel what it did to the arabs of Palestine.

[mohamed lion of God]

christian atheist girl wrote:

<quoted text>I FULLY AGREE ARABS HAVE BEEN DOING NOTHING ELSE BUT CRIMES SINCE THE BEGINING OF ISLAMIC RELIGION WHICH CAUSED ALL THAT.

the Arabs were the worlds most advanced civilisation during the time in which your ancestors where living with their animals in thier own huts.

sulphuric acid was an Arab invention ( try running a chemicals-industry without it, and try going to space without a chemicals-industry), and logarithms, algebra, and spherical trigonometry had much to owe to our scientists when your ancestors were roasting each other alive, and standing in sewers thinking that it would drive off the plague.

the Arabs were barbarians before Islam, and if it wasnt for the Imam Ali ibn Abi-Taleb who co-ordinated the first transcription of the non-arabic sciences available from the Byzantines ( which would have been useless as a result of the lack of resources in the Byzantine empire required to advance these sciences ), and who transmitted these sciences to his children ( who's later generations include Imam Jaafer Al-Sadiq, who was recognized as a major scientist in the most advanced state of his time. Jabir ibn Hayyan, the inventor of several chemical processes and tools that are still in use today, was one of his students )

it was Imam Ali's efforts that saved the arabs from their own pre-Islamic ignorance ... if he hadnt done that, then we would have been a few centuries behind where we are today, for the Europeans would have taken quite a while to re-discover these sciences by themselves.

[my kind of town]

mohamed lion of God wrote:

<quoted text>

(edited for room)... firstly, most of the nations that the arabs have wronged have paid back thier dues and have resolved most of thier issues with them since quite a while.
Furthermore, your current palestinian victims have no involvement whatsoever with the criminals of old ... todays Palestinians have nothing to do with the horrors that Baibars al-Bandukdari inflicted upon the europeans of Antioch .... the problems between the non-arabs produced atrocities that even the jews might consider to be a bit disgusting ... we didnt hack up Viskovaty alive in the 1500's , Ivan the Terrible did ... we didnt impale a few thousand men, women and children on stakes, Vlad Tepes of Romania did ... more non-arabs died at each others hands, than by the arabs.

The Western World does not "revere" Martin Luther precisely BECAUSE he
was rapidly anti-semitic. In fact, many are ashamed of Martin Luther.
Your views are sometimes admirable, as in the death of any child is wrong,
to weird -as in the nations the "arabs have wronged..have resolved their
issues." Really? Because we've got a group of worldwide terror atrocities
by Arabs that have a bit of "settling" to be done. How have Arabs redressed
the Munch 1972 Olympics? Or, do you think athletes DESERVED to be killed
because they were Jewish athletes? What about the train bombings in
Europe and Spain killing civilians? Or, do you think those passengers
DESERVED to die because their governments angered Arab lands? Lockerbee,
Scotland jetline crash? An American airline, so it was fair? Right?
9-11...those people on the plane and in the tower got what they DESERVED,
right? You say Sharon killed civilians and at the same time the world see
Arab terrorists plot to exclusively kill civilians. And, if you argue that
"today's Palestinians" have no connection to the ski masked thugs who
abuducted the Olympians, then who ARE they connected to? In who's name
were suiciders blowing up busses and cafes? Trains? Jets? Office Towers?
The barbarism of the 1500's has been revived by Islamic terrorists..
hooded executioners with a curved sword behind a terrified victim in front
of a videocamera.... they swing the blade in "worship" Is this not
reaching back into bloody history to degrade mankind ? This is not one
crazed solider, which every battlefield produces. These are repeated
acts of terror, in a variety of countries, with thousands of participants
who are never brought to justice within the Muslim World. So, please,
tell us how the Arab World has "settled the score."

[mohamed lion of God]

my kind of town wrote:

<quoted text>
The Western World does not "revere" Martin Luther precisely BECAUSE he
was rapidly anti-semitic. In fact, many are ashamed of Martin Luther.
... So, please,
tell us how the Arab World has "settled the score."

good post ... its been a while since ive read something of this calibre.

concerning Luther ...

well, true it is that his popularity is much less than what it was, but he still has his followers, dont you think ?
besides, Jesus himself had a word or two about the jews that one wouldnt be encouraged to consider to be positive :

New Testament, John chapter 8 verses 44-49 :

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx...

"[44] Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

[45] And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

[46] Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

[47] He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

[48] Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?

[49] Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me. "
it is beyond my knowledge as to whether or not Jesus has suffered a blow to his standing in today's West as a result of these words of his.

concerning the unresolved issues ...

now, i DIDNT say on post #81 that ** all ** of our issues are resolved, i simply said that ** most ** are ... now then, no matter how rotten the situation is today, it was 10 times more rotten just 60 years ago ( and it was even worse before that ).
do we have a Western state fighting a declared war against one of our states without needing the permission of a few dozen of our other states ? no .

if it wasnt for the access to supply-routes and bases allowed to your forces by some Moslem states who were enemies of saddam and the taliban , you would have found it exceedingly difficult to do anything really useful over there ... imagin trying to invade Iraq if we in the Gulf decided to prohibit you from using our ports and highways ... true, you might decide to bomb us into submission, but the money and oil that God has placed in our posession can give an equally painful headache if the Chinese start doubting thier ability to acquire thier portion of it in the case of a large-scale squabble between you and us.

that wasnt the case 50 years ago, where the British and French bombed about anywhere they wanted to see some smoke blowing over ... and the French had a big colony over in Algiers ... an oil embargo came later in the 70's ... and more occurances that you have mentioned , but thats not the case now .
Your economic links with the Islamic world, including the Pakistanis, Saudis ( especially the Saudis ) and the Lebanese are excellent.

your military presence is welcomed here because it is needed by some of us to deal with some others amongst us , a need that is compatible with your interests ( or more like, the interests of those who control your societies ).simple as that my friend.
yet we have enemies, who may actually be friends of yours, like the israelis ( and some of your enemies happen to be quite friendly , like the Iranians ). Our friendship with you doesnt make us friends with israel, as you can see.

[mohamed lion of God]

my kind of town wrote:

<quoted text>
The Western World does not "revere" Martin Luther precisely BECAUSE he
was rapidly anti-semitic. In fact, many are ashamed of Martin Luther.
.... So, please,
tell us how the Arab World has "settled the score."

good post ... its been a while since ive read something of this calibre.

concerning Luther ...

well, true it is that his popularity is much less than what it was, but he still has his followers, dont you think ?


besides, Jesus himself had a word or two about the jews that one wouldnt be encouraged to consider to be positive :

New Testament, John chapter 8 verses 44-49 :

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx...

"[44] Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

[45] And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

[46] Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

[47] He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

[48] Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?

[49] Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me. "

it is beyond my knowledge as to whether or not Jesus has suffered a blow to his standing in today's West as a result of these words of his.

concerning the unresolved issues ...

now, i DIDNT say on post #81 that ** all ** of our issues are resolved, i simply said that ** most ** are ... now then, no matter how rotten the situation is today, it was 10 times more rotten just 60 years ago ( and it was even worse before that ).

do we have a Western state fighting a declared war against one of our states without needing the permission of a few dozen of our other states ? no .

if it wasnt for the access to supply-lines and bases allowed to your forces by some Moslem states who are enemies of saddam and the taliban , you would have found it exceedingly difficult to do anything really useful over there ... imagin trying to invade Iraq if we in the Gulf decided to prohibit you from using our ports. In truth, you may be able to bomb us into submission, but the fact of the matter is that your ability to wage such a war against us depends on your economy, which itself depends on the ability of the Chinese and yourselves at getting the oil under our feet to be transported to the refineries and factories and that availability of oil is something that would be threatened if you bomb us ...

that wasnt he case 50 years ago, where the British and French bombed about anywhere they wanted to see some smoke blowing over ... and the French had a big colony over in Algiers ... an oil embargo came later in the 70's ... and more occurances that you have mentioned , but thats not the case now .

Your economic links with the Islamic world, including the Pakistanis, Saudis ( especially the Saudis ) and the Lebanese are excellent.

your military presence is welcomed here because it is needed by some of us to deal with some others amongst us , a need that is compatible with your interests ( or more like, the interests of those who control your societies ).simple as that my friend.

yet we have enemies, who may actually be friends of yours, like the israelis ( and some of your enemies happen to be quite friendly , like the Iranians ). Our friendship with you doesnt make us friends with israel, as you can see.