SodaStream boycott hurts Palestinians

Feb 14, 2013 Full story: Intermountain Jewish News 63

The Israeli company, which sells a popular kitchen gadget that turns tap water into carbonated drinks, has a large factory in a West Bank settlement.

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Tim Upham

Nine Mile Falls, WA

#1 Feb 14, 2013
That is a decision that will have to be made by Israel, is either return the settlers back to the pre-1967 borders, or let them stay and become citizens of Palestine. Israeli companies are operating in Jordan, and employ 1,200 Jordanians. Israeli companies will be operating in an independent Palestine, and this can be an example of one of them.
Athiest

Holon, Israel

#2 Feb 17, 2013
Tim Upham wrote:
That is a decision that will have to be made by Israel, is either return the settlers back to the pre-1967 borders, or let them stay and become citizens of Palestine. Israeli companies are operating in Jordan, and employ 1,200 Jordanians. Israeli companies will be operating in an independent Palestine, and this can be an example of one of them.
Israel never put the settlers there they went of their own accord.
Jews lived in the WB (Called Judea and Sumeria until 1949)until they were massacred or kicked out by the local Arab CIVILIAN population during Israels war of independence. pre-1967 is an armistice line not a legally binding border read the Armistice accord. It has no relevance in International Law it was the line where the battle stopped.
The Palestinians do not deserve a state however they do need Autonomy which is what the Oslo Accord was all about.
Israeli settlements take up around 1% of the WB and the Palestinians were given control of Area B & C, Oslo makes no mention of Settlements being illegal and so on. Places like Hebron however seem unlikely to be part of Israel but the Palestinians have made it very clear on camera that they will not accept Jews in their state. Not only that but they will never accept Israel as a Jewish country, never accept the Palestinian "refugees"even those living in Gaza and WB to be settled in their state and so on. this is Fatah leaders not Hamas.
Tim Upham

Nine Mile Falls, WA

#3 Feb 17, 2013
Athiest wrote:
<quoted text>
Israel never put the settlers there they went of their own accord.
Jews lived in the WB (Called Judea and Sumeria until 1949)until they were massacred or kicked out by the local Arab CIVILIAN population during Israels war of independence. pre-1967 is an armistice line not a legally binding border read the Armistice accord. It has no relevance in International Law it was the line where the battle stopped.
The Palestinians do not deserve a state however they do need Autonomy which is what the Oslo Accord was all about.
Israeli settlements take up around 1% of the WB and the Palestinians were given control of Area B & C, Oslo makes no mention of Settlements being illegal and so on. Places like Hebron however seem unlikely to be part of Israel but the Palestinians have made it very clear on camera that they will not accept Jews in their state. Not only that but they will never accept Israel as a Jewish country, never accept the Palestinian "refugees"even those living in Gaza and WB to be settled in their state and so on. this is Fatah leaders not Hamas.
Jews forbidden to live in an independent Palestine, is not mentioned in the Palestinian Constitution whatsoever. It is strictly a verbal clause made up by certain Palestinians. Since 30% of the Palestinian economy comes from international aid, that pays for the structure of the Palestinian Authority, it seems that those Palestinians could be very easily persuaded to drop that verbal clause. An independent Palestine would desperately need foreign investment, and with Israel exporting over U.S.$3 billion dollars worth of commodities to Areas A, B, and C of the West Bank, that Israel would be the prime supplier of that foreign investment.
Atheist

Ramat Gan, Israel

#4 Feb 18, 2013
Tim Upham wrote:
<quoted text> Jews forbidden to live in an independent Palestine, is not mentioned in the Palestinian Constitution whatsoever. It is strictly a verbal clause made up by certain Palestinians.
I never said it was mentioned in the constitution but it has been repeated by many Palestinian LEADERS as their official policy.
Here is a link to some quotes from their official documentation.
http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx...
Since the Palestinians as a nation were also made up (not denying they exist now, although if Israel disappeared they would probably join up with the surrounding countries as a caliphate in the long run). what makes you think of this any differently?
A lot more than 30% comes from international aid.

CAN YOU NAME ANYTHING THE PALESTINIANS HAVE EVER BEEN PERSUADED TO CHANGE WHEN IT COMES TO INCITEMENT AND HATRED TOWARDS OTHERS?

Read PLO Charter, Hamas Charter, Fatah documentation. They all call for armed resistance all deny the right for Israel to exist as a Jewish State, and some even call for extermination of Jews. They refuse to give up the "Right of Return" which not surprisingly has no legal basis and is not their right and would lead to no more Israel which is their plan anyways (read PLO Phased Plan). not to mention the fact that the majority are only legally refugees according to the Palestinians not the International definition of a Refugee.
According to this logic since my family were kicked out of various European areas during the Holocaust with all their property taken away, i have the same rights as a refugee. This is ridiculous and false. I may however have a right to property return or compensation.
Atheist

Ramat Gan, Israel

#5 Feb 18, 2013
Quotes by Palestinian Leaders on Jews in Palestinian State:

Addressing a recent emergency session of Arab League foreign ministers in Doha, Qatar, Mahmoud Abbas unabashedly declared that when an independent Palestinian state with Jerusalem as its capital is established, we wont allow the presence of one Israeli in it....
July 28, 2010,Im willing to agree to a third party that would supervise the [possible future Israeli-Palestinian] agreement, such as NATO forces, but I would not agree to having Jews among the NATO forces, or that there will live among us even a single Israeli on Palestinian land.
http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/Artic...

So, you think it would be necessary to first transfer and remove every Jew

Absolutely. No, Im not saying to transfer every Jew, Im saying transfer Jews who, after an agreement with Israel, fall under the jurisdiction of a Palestinian state.

Any Jew who is inside the borders of Palestine will have to leave?

Absolutely. I think this is a very necessary step, before we can allow the two states to somehow develop their separate national identities,

When you imagine a future Palestinian state, do you imagine it being a place where Jews, if they wish to become Palestinian citizens, could own property, vote in elections, and practice their religion freely?

I remember in the mid-90s, the late [PLO official] Faisal Husseini said repeatedly OK, if Israelis choose to stay in a future Palestinian state, they are more than welcome to do that. But under one condition: They have to respect and obey Palestinian laws, they cannot be living as Israelis. They have to respect Palestinian laws and abide by them. When Faisal Husseini died, basically no Palestinian leader has publicly supported the notion that they can stay.
http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-poli...

Not to mention the incitement against Jews throughout Palestinian society - https://www.youtube.com/user/palwatch/videos...

this is the tip of the iceberg, Jews cant openly go to majority of Arab areas not only Palestinian but also Israeli.

Your implication that they are just saying these things and don't mean them is arrogant and untrue. It was the Palestinian leader and UN Ambassador making these statements.

Do you also think its ok to call for killing the Jews and that Jews are apes and pigs?

Again CAN YOU NAME ONE PART OF PALESTINIAN SOCIETY WHICH DOESN'T INCITE HATRED TOWARDS JEWS OR ISRAEL USING LIES????

There are a number of videos in Arabic with subtitles that deny the right of Jews to reside in Palestine have them on another drive and they have since been taken off the sites where i first found them. Sure you can find them if you are interested. My internet connection keeps dropping so not able to today.
Tim Upham

Nine Mile Falls, WA

#6 Feb 18, 2013
Atheist wrote:
Quotes by Palestinian Leaders on Jews in Palestinian State:
Addressing a recent emergency session of Arab League foreign ministers in Doha, Qatar, Mahmoud Abbas unabashedly declared that when an independent Palestinian state with Jerusalem as its capital is established, we wont allow the presence of one Israeli in it....
July 28, 2010,Im willing to agree to a third party that would supervise the [possible future Israeli-Palestinian] agreement, such as NATO forces, but I would not agree to having Jews among the NATO forces, or that there will live among us even a single Israeli on Palestinian land.
http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/Artic...
So, you think it would be necessary to first transfer and remove every Jew
Absolutely. No, Im not saying to transfer every Jew, Im saying transfer Jews who, after an agreement with Israel, fall under the jurisdiction of a Palestinian state.
Any Jew who is inside the borders of Palestine will have to leave?
Absolutely. I think this is a very necessary step, before we can allow the two states to somehow develop their separate national identities,
When you imagine a future Palestinian state, do you imagine it being a place where Jews, if they wish to become Palestinian citizens, could own property, vote in elections, and practice their religion freely?
I remember in the mid-90s, the late [PLO official] Faisal Husseini said repeatedly OK, if Israelis choose to stay in a future Palestinian state, they are more than welcome to do that. But under one condition: They have to respect and obey Palestinian laws, they cannot be living as Israelis. They have to respect Palestinian laws and abide by them. When Faisal Husseini died, basically no Palestinian leader has publicly supported the notion that they can stay.
http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-poli...
Not to mention the incitement against Jews throughout Palestinian society - https://www.youtube.com/user/palwatch/videos...
this is the tip of the iceberg, Jews cant openly go to majority of Arab areas not only Palestinian but also Israeli.
Your implication that they are just saying these things and don't mean them is arrogant and untrue. It was the Palestinian leader and UN Ambassador making these statements.
Do you also think its ok to call for killing the Jews and that Jews are apes and pigs?
Again CAN YOU NAME ONE PART OF PALESTINIAN SOCIETY WHICH DOESN'T INCITE HATRED TOWARDS JEWS OR ISRAEL USING LIES????
There are a number of videos in Arabic with subtitles that deny the right of Jews to reside in Palestine have them on another drive and they have since been taken off the sites where i first found them. Sure you can find them if you are interested. My internet connection keeps dropping so not able to today.
Instead of dealing with Palestinians as being far off distant "things," why not deal with them as human beings. With the Seeds of Peace program, I set up a meeting between a Jewish girl and a Palestinian family. What did they sit down and talk about? How much they wanted to kill each other? No. The Palestinian family was redecorating their home. So they talked about home decor. I found out later, it was the first time this Jewish girl ever talked to a Palestinian, and it was the first time this Palestinian family ever talked to a Jew, outside of an army checkpoint. The hate is there, because you two never talk to each other. When you go into an Israeli home, there is a kitchen and a bathroom. So they must eat, and go to the bathroom. When you go into a Palestinian home, there is a kitchen and a bathroom. So they must eat, and go to the bathroom. They both have kids, so you know they are having sex. The surface hatred between Israelis and Palestinians will always be there, as long as they just see each other from a distance.
Aliroger1

Toronto, Canada

#7 Feb 18, 2013
A TWO STATE SOLUTION IS AN APARTHEID SOLUTION AND A REWARD FOR ZIONAZI TERRORISM OF ETHNIC CLEANSING

Western countries need to take a values-based approach to the Middle East. We must never support apartheid. We must not support ethnic or theocratic nation states. Our value is equality and the coexistence of multiple cultures, ethnicities and religions in single states. Israel is an apartheid state. It can never be made legitimate by anyone or anything, ever. There needs to be a single, unitary state, secular, democratic, under the rule of law, with equality for all, one person, one vote, and full respect for property title (as defined in the aftermath of the Nazi crimes, for example in the ownership of art works), and the full implementation of the international law of the right of refugees and their descendents!!! Israel is a criminal state founded by terrorists like Menachem Begin and Yitzhak Shamir. Nothing can make legal what are the fruits of crime in the modern era on a parallel with Nazi lebensraum doctrine of ethnic cleansing.
Aliroger1

Toronto, Canada

#8 Feb 18, 2013
PALESTINIANS ARE WILLING TO PAY ANY PRICE TO STOP ZIONAZI GAINS IN THE OCCUPATION OF THEIR LAND AND THE TYRANNY OF SETTLER TERRORISM!!!

Boycott, divest, sanction the Settler Criminals who are aided and abetted by the Israeli terrorist state!!!
Atheist

Ramat Gan, Israel

#9 Feb 18, 2013
Tim Upham wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes we all want to live in peace and dance and sing together difference is that i am realistic. I have spent over ten years of my life in Israel. I spent a year living in the West Bank and saw Palestinians and Israeli working side by side (before the intifada). Lived with Bedouins, been to Palestinian weddings, and have a number of Arab friends. Sadly after the intifada starting in 2001 i have been unable to travel to their villages and been told by them it is too dangerous for me.
I do not try to come across as distant and often go to conferences and meeting about both sides but i cannot ignore the facts.

Firstly i am a supporter of the Oslo Accord and constantly preach it to those around me (even the racist ones, yes i know Israeli who are racist against Arabs, although they are a major minority and generally feel that way due to their parents or lack of thinking. Not trying to justify them in any way it is wrong and i make that VERY clear on a regular basis). i know Arabs who openly admit if they have a chance they will fight to destroy Israel and kill all the Jews in necessary. And those who say evict all Arabs. I am also for individual property rights whether Palestinian or Israeli.

Your story is very nice but missing the reality. Sadly by implying the "Seeds of Peace" is a middle of the road org you are being disingenuous or misinformed.

Some graduates from Seeds of Peace:

Huwaida Arraf went to aid the Palestinian Arab terrorists that escaped to the Church of Nativity to avoid Israeli arrest a decade ago. Spent time in Israeli Jails, and now travels giving anti-Israel speeches.
Adam Shapiro 4 years camp Programs Coordinator her husband.
They are both founders of the ISM a openly anti-Israel org supported by Arafat. Some of their goals include:-
Recognize the Palestinian right to resist Israeli violence and occupation via armed struggle.
Right of return of Palestinian refugees and the Palestinian capitol to be in Jerusalem.
They have been actively involved in helping and protecting terrorists.

Aaron Miller former state department bureau of intelligence and research (focused on Arab-Israel), runs seeds of peace he helped form much of US policy towards Israel over the past few decades (not in a good way). Another Jews using his Jewishness to get ahead and be anti-Israel. it is hard to find a Jew in a high position in the USA who is actually Pro-Israel.

Fadi El-Salameen is another one full of hate for Israel blaming the settlers for all their woes. Supports or justifies terrorism

Sponsers and Supporters Include:-
Racist, anti-Semitic Saeb Erekat started Jenin Massacre liable.
David Bonior John Conyers and John Dingell
Edward S. Walker Jr
Martin Indyk
Abed Rabbo
Yossi Beilin
Denis Ross
Tim and Fatimah Attalah

so far this list from an Israeli perspective is as Pro-Palestinian as can be it includes those who blame Israel support for 9/11, those who consistantly vote against Israel in US Gov, those who forced Oslo, those who incite hatred and liable against Israel and Jews.

a link to some Palestinian polls. not best example but you can always look for internal ones very full of hate and evil. You cant pretend its a small minority.
http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx...

you can go through the website and come back to me trying to deny all the hatred and evil from Palestinian society and leadership.

seeds of Peace has consistently featured on Left-Wing media.

It seems to be another tool to push American Foreign Policy and is anti-Israel just like the Consulate in Jerusalem which doesn't hire Jews.

You seem to miss the point of the suicide bombings, Lynch in Ramallah where a crowd of Palestinian civilians ripped apart the bodies of two IDF reservists who got their by mistake. Their summer camps etc.

Even Wollach the founder of Seeds for Peace was an Apologist for the evil Arafat and Faisel Husseini - reliative of Mufti Nazi Husseini.
Atheist

Ramat Gan, Israel

#10 Feb 18, 2013
Aliroger1 wrote:
A TWO STATE SOLUTION IS AN APARTHEID SOLUTION AND A REWARD FOR ZIONAZI TERRORISM OF ETHNIC CLEANSING
Western countries need to take a values-based approach to the Middle East. We must never support apartheid. We must not support ethnic or theocratic nation states. Our value is equality and the coexistence of multiple cultures, ethnicities and religions in single states. Israel is an apartheid state. It can never be made legitimate by anyone or anything, ever. There needs to be a single, unitary state, secular, democratic, under the rule of law, with equality for all, one person, one vote, and full respect for property title (as defined in the aftermath of the Nazi crimes, for example in the ownership of art works), and the full implementation of the international law of the right of refugees and their descendents!!! Israel is a criminal state founded by terrorists like Menachem Begin and Yitzhak Shamir. Nothing can make legal what are the fruits of crime in the modern era on a parallel with Nazi lebensraum doctrine of ethnic cleansing.
At least you are truthful about your agenda. apart from
"Our value is equality and the coexistence of multiple cultures, ethnicities and religions in single states." sounds like Israel.
So you agree that Jews persecuted from Arab countries with $Trillions stolen from them should get their land and property back??
Refugee descendents have no rights you idiot. They are not considered refugees according to international law.
As for refugees the majority are resettled in other places.
Was in not the Allies after WW2 who transfered civilian populations around Europe??? Look in the mirror.
Atheist

Ramat Gan, Israel

#11 Feb 18, 2013
Aliroger1 wrote:
PALESTINIANS ARE WILLING TO PAY ANY PRICE TO STOP ZIONAZI GAINS IN THE OCCUPATION OF THEIR LAND AND THE TYRANNY OF SETTLER TERRORISM!!!
Boycott, divest, sanction the Settler Criminals who are aided and abetted by the Israeli terrorist state!!!
You wrote it wrong i think you meant Palestinians are willing to kill as many Jews as they can until the Jews leave or are all dead.

Can you name the first leader of Palestine????

Give one document giving the Palestinians as a Nation the legal right to the land. If you cant then F%&k OFF.
Tim Upham

Nine Mile Falls, WA

#12 Feb 18, 2013
Seeds of Peace only brings Israeli and Palestinian teenagers together. There is no political agenda associated with it. White Hall -- Great Britain's Foreign Ministry -- wants both the Palestinians and the Mizrahim of Israel to drop their claims to compensation. Because they both will never collect on it. The Mizrahim are now settled in Israel, and the Palestinian are now settled in the West Bank and Gaza. The United Nations' General Assembly voted in 1947 to partition Palestine into an Arab state and a Jewish state. So let us go back to the original proposal. Mahmoud Abbas himself said it was a mistake not to accept it. It is never too late to go back and correct past mistakes.
Atheist

Ramat Gan, Israel

#13 Feb 18, 2013
Tim Upham wrote:
Seeds of Peace only brings Israeli and Palestinian teenagers together. There is no political agenda associated with it. White Hall -- Great Britain's Foreign Ministry -- wants both the Palestinians and the Mizrahim of Israel to drop their claims to compensation. Because they both will never collect on it. The Mizrahim are now settled in Israel, and the Palestinian are now settled in the West Bank and Gaza. The United Nations' General Assembly voted in 1947 to partition Palestine into an Arab state and a Jewish state. So let us go back to the original proposal. Mahmoud Abbas himself said it was a mistake not to accept it. It is never too late to go back and correct past mistakes.
For an org with no political agenda it seems a bit one sided. With known terrorist supporters in its ranks. Are you fooling yourself or serious??? Do you know what peace or non-bias means???? at least i admit that i am pro-Israel.
Britain is also to blame for the whole problem by not following through with the Mandate with very anti-semitic actions between 1920-1940 allowing massacres against Jews and even refusing to allow Jews into Palestine escaping the Nazis while encouraging non-Jewish immigration and even giving them land for free.

Easy to ignore the compensation when the Jews had much more taken from. The Palestinians are not settled but put i refugee camps and taught how evil Jews and Israeli are, and given keys split up into regions and told they will return to their parents and grandparents villages at some point.

Wow you are distorting historical facts.
Its interesting how you claim that UNGA res is the original proposal do you know any history. You seem to have shown your true face.
Abbas the one who helped with Munich Massacre, throwing Klinger a guy in a wheelchair off a ship and so on. Ordered attacks on Israel civilians as leader of Fatah PLO.

So you see no relevance to the immigration and such in the 1800's? Balfour, Paris Peace Conference 1919, Faisel Weissman agreement, Faisel Frankfurter Correspondence , article 22 of the covenant of the league of nations, Treaty of Neuilly, san remo conference, TREATY OF SEVRES, mandate treaty, treaty of Lausanne, Article 80 of the UN Charter, ICj S-W, Africa Case. and much more.

You have misrepresented yourself by supporting the 1940's appeasement Auschwitz borders. the UNGA resolution according to international law has no legal basis not sure how relevant it really is. Why not go back to the original split of Palestine in the 1920's when 75% was taken and Trans-Jordan was created. what about the fact that a large% of Palestinians have Jordanian Citizenship even those in the WB.
Tim Upham

Nine Mile Falls, WA

#14 Feb 18, 2013
Let us deal with the here and now. The League of Nations does not exist anymore, the United Nations does. Whenever a Palestinian living in Areas A, B, and C of the West Bank goes into Jordan, they are required to have an Israeli exit visa. If not, they cannot enter Jordan. If they do enter Jordan and do not have one, they are forcible expelled. I never worked with anyone in Seeds of Peace, who said terrorists are their heros. 1940's appeasement Auschwitz borders? What the hell does that means? Borders was never established in the 1940's at Auschwitz.
Atheist

Ramat Gan, Israel

#15 Feb 18, 2013
Tim Upham wrote:
Let us deal with the here and now. The League of Nations does not exist anymore, the United Nations does. Whenever a Palestinian living in Areas A, B, and C of the West Bank goes into Jordan, they are required to have an Israeli exit visa. If not, they cannot enter Jordan. If they do enter Jordan and do not have one, they are forcible expelled. I never worked with anyone in Seeds of Peace, who said terrorists are their heros. 1940's appeasement Auschwitz borders? What the hell does that means? Borders was never established in the 1940's at Auschwitz.
Article 80 of the UN Charter reaffirmed the rights of Mandates so it is very relevant. Large% of Palestinians from the WB had Jordanian citizenship. Should you not be questioning why it was taken from them?
As i said i agree with at least Palestinian Autonomy as stated in the Oslo Accord and only see three other options. Transfer to Jordan the so called real palestinian state, state for the Palestinians or give WB Palestinians Israeli citizenship.
Never said all seed activists support terrorists however to call them a peace org, nonpolitical, and not a pro-palestinian org is a lie. Can you name one public figure who is more on the right in Israel who is part of the organization or are they all Meretz type people.
As for the Auschwitz lines it is more of a quote basically saying that these lines give no security or protection to Israel from attack. Would be surprised you haven't heard of it until your latest posts.
Look up Mark Langfan for example who shows very simply why Israel needs the land. Not to mention the US Joint Chiefs of Staff map of secure borders for Israel.

There here and now is that the unelected leader of the Palestinians who is a extremist as can be seen throughout his life, words and actions, refuses to speak to Israel, nor negotiate on any aspect of the conflict, instead choosing to use outside pressure and lies to get Israel to follow his agenda.

You have still ignored the Fatah, Hamas PLO, Charter all including violence and hatred, PMW which clearly shows the hatred coming from the Palestinian side from all aspects of society, and the PLO Phased Plan which is in place today.
You have not answered any of my questions.

One moderate Palestinian leader, one thing Palestinians have ever done for peace, one part of Palestinian society which doesnt incite hatred?
The PLO was created with the sole aim of destroying Israel that is clear in the PLO Charter 1964.

it seems as though your opinion is based on feeling when it should be based on reality.
If a murderer kills he is put in jail, if a person incites violence they are put in jail and so on why a different standard for the palestinians???
Aliroger1

Toronto, Canada

#16 Feb 18, 2013
Atheist wrote:
<quoted text>
. Supports or justifies terrorism
Sponsers and Supporters Include:-
Racist, anti-Semitic Saeb Erekat started Jenin Massacre liable.
David Bonior John Conyers and John Dingell
Edward S. Walker Jr
Martin Indyk
Abed Rabbo
Yossi Beilin
Denis Ross
Tim and Fatimah Attalah
so far this list from an Israeli perspective is as Pro-Palestinian as can be it includes those who blame Israel support for 9/11, those who consistantly vote against Israel in US Gov, those who forced Oslo, those who incite hatred and liable against Israel and Jews.
.
LOLLL

To understand how extremist this "Atheist" zionazi fascist scoundrel is, take a look at his list and his claims!!! Dennis Ross is Pro-Palestinian and anti-Israel according to this vicious clown!!!
Tim Upham

Nine Mile Falls, WA

#17 Feb 18, 2013
Atheist wrote:
<quoted text>
Article 80 of the UN Charter reaffirmed the rights of Mandates so it is very relevant. Large% of Palestinians from the WB had Jordanian citizenship. Should you not be questioning why it was taken from them?
As i said i agree with at least Palestinian Autonomy as stated in the Oslo Accord and only see three other options. Transfer to Jordan the so called real palestinian state, state for the Palestinians or give WB Palestinians Israeli citizenship.
Never said all seed activists support terrorists however to call them a peace org, nonpolitical, and not a pro-palestinian org is a lie. Can you name one public figure who is more on the right in Israel who is part of the organization or are they all Meretz type people.
As for the Auschwitz lines it is more of a quote basically saying that these lines give no security or protection to Israel from attack. Would be surprised you haven't heard of it until your latest posts.
Look up Mark Langfan for example who shows very simply why Israel needs the land. Not to mention the US Joint Chiefs of Staff map of secure borders for Israel.
There here and now is that the unelected leader of the Palestinians who is a extremist as can be seen throughout his life, words and actions, refuses to speak to Israel, nor negotiate on any aspect of the conflict, instead choosing to use outside pressure and lies to get Israel to follow his agenda.
You have still ignored the Fatah, Hamas PLO, Charter all including violence and hatred, PMW which clearly shows the hatred coming from the Palestinian side from all aspects of society, and the PLO Phased Plan which is in place today.
You have not answered any of my questions.
One moderate Palestinian leader, one thing Palestinians have ever done for peace, one part of Palestinian society which doesnt incite hatred?
The PLO was created with the sole aim of destroying Israel that is clear in the PLO Charter 1964.
it seems as though your opinion is based on feeling when it should be based on reality.
If a murderer kills he is put in jail, if a person incites violence they are put in jail and so on why a different standard for the palestinians???
No I have not answered your questions, because you are to busy foaming from the mouth about your hatred for the Palestinians. Israel did not even exist when Auschwitz was in operation. So every single Palestinian has murdered a Jew. How many Palestinians have you murdered?
Aliroger1

Toronto, Canada

#18 Feb 18, 2013
Atheist wrote:
<quoted text>
At least you are truthful about your agenda. apart from
"Our value is equality and the coexistence of multiple cultures, ethnicities and religions in single states." sounds like Israel.
So you agree that Jews persecuted from Arab countries with $Trillions stolen from them should get their land and property back??
Refugee descendents have no rights you idiot. They are not considered refugees according to international law.
As for refugees the majority are resettled in other places.
Was in not the Allies after WW2 who transfered civilian populations around Europe??? Look in the mirror.
Illegal immigrants to Palestine should be encouraged to return to their ancestral homelands in Libya, Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria, Yemen, France, Germany, Poland, Moldova, Russia, Iran,.... sure, or be compensated. Criminals like Lieberman should be sent back to Moldova, Russia etc. Like nazis, they have no right to claim anything anywhere. As for the descendents, they have every right to return to their lands, just as the heirs of works of art stolen by the nazis have reclaimed their properties. The world has determined that Israel is an outlaw state. It was founded at a time of colonialism and imperialism by people who had no legal authority to do anything with the lands of native peoples. Palestinians are the sole native people of Palestine. Palestinians included Jews, Christians and Muslims. Criminals like Menachem Begin and Yitzhak Shamir and Golda Meir and CHaim Herzog and Weizman were terrorist invaders who had no claim whatsoever to Palestine--they are not Semites!!!
Aliroger1

Toronto, Canada

#19 Feb 18, 2013
Atheist wrote:
<quoted text>
You wrote it wrong i think you meant Palestinians are willing to kill as many Jews as they can until the Jews leave or are all dead.
Can you name the first leader of Palestine????
Give one document giving the Palestinians as a Nation the legal right to the land. If you cant then F%&k OFF.
"ATHEIST" IS PROJECTING HIS PATHOLOGICAL HATRED AND MUREROUS GENOCIDAL INTENT AND ACTIONS ONTO HIS VICTIMS!!!

Israelis believe they can murder and commit genocide against the Palestinian native people with impunity. The whole world has witnessed these crimes against humanity committed by the Israel Fourth Reich. Notice how he ends his post with profanity. Imagine him with a machine gun in hand lording it over a cowering Palestine family, taking pleasure at his unrestrained power to harass and humiliate them. This is the character of a Brown Shirt Thug, which is what Israelis are!!!
Aliroger1

Toronto, Canada

#20 Feb 18, 2013
THE SOLUTION TO THE PALESTINE QUESTION IS QUITE SIMPLE, FOR THOSE WHO ARE UNBIASED AND HONEST:

Western countries need to take a values-based approach to the Middle East. We must never support apartheid. We must not support ethnic or theocratic nation states. Our value is equality and the coexistence of multiple cultures, ethnicities and religions in single states. Israel is an apartheid state. It can never be made legitimate by anyone or anything, ever. There needs to be a single, unitary state, secular, democratic, under the rule of law, with equality for all, one person, one vote, and full respect for property title (as defined in the aftermath of the Nazi crimes, for example in the ownership of art works), and the full implementation of the international law of the right of refugees and their descendents!!! iT IS THAT SIMPLE!!!

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