Islam and Science:Road to Renewal

Islam and Science:Road to Renewal

There are 314 comments on the Free Republic story from Jan 29, 2013, titled Islam and Science:Road to Renewal. In it, Free Republic reports that:

THE sleep has been long and deep. In 2005 Harvard University produced more scientific papers than 17 Arabic-speaking countries combined.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Free Republic.

“Mystical Atheism for everyone!”

Since: Nov 08

El Cerrito California

#107 Feb 6, 2013
People say this book by this prophet is the only word of God, than another self proclaimed prophet writes a book and says "This is the only true word of GOD" and the argument continues.(and the bloodshed )

Has anyone bothered to consider that perhaps the language of GOD can not be found in any book written by men, despite their claims of inspiration?

Perhaps the language of GOD is the entirety of creation and how we find ourselves immersed in it?

Could it be that science is slowly and ponderously learning the language of GOD?

Could this language be what us humans might call "LOVE"?

Why is it that the historical Jesus did not write anything down?

Could it be that what he had to say could not be put into words?

There is one passage in the Hebrew scriptures that applies to Jews, Christians, and Islam as well:

Psalm 46:10

"10 He says, "Be still, and know that I am God;
I will be exalted among the nations,
I will be exalted in the earth."

that's all. Be still. Allow the constant chatter of the mind to subside.

Than simply be aware of what is with all of your senses.

Practice this and one day you too will know the language of GOD!
Khan

Wichita, KS

#109 Feb 6, 2013
Faith wrote:
<quoted text>Manny, Moe and Jack. Jesus turned water into wine; Muhammad raped a dead body.
Blatant, stupid and absurd lies from the Anti-Faith.
May God teach you a good lesson.

No other religion except Islam do not answers the big questions of life, such as Who made us? and Why are we here? Perhaps other religions do not reconcile the injustices of life with a fair and just Creator. Perhaps we find hypocrisy in the clergy, untenable tenets of faith in the canon, or corruption in the scripture. Whatever the reason, we perceive shortcomings in the religions of our exposure, and look elsewhere. And the ultimate elsewhere is Islam.

Islamic teachings of morality and honesty are needed very badly in the decadent and dishonest American culture and society today. While God has given America with many gifts and blessings, there are many who are constantly cheating God, not obeying the teachings of the Prophets or the Constitutional Laws written in the Jeffersonian Democracy.
With the services of expensive lawyers, the criminals and the murderers are getting away with their crimes and sins.
Too much porn and nudity is explicitly shown in the Media and Magazines. An American woman is only appreciated for her curves and sexual parts, not what for her internal beauty. The poor American woman has simply been reduced to a piece of meat in America. No respect. 2-3 million immoral and unwanted teenage pregnancies and abortions occur every year. The parents have been unable to teach any morality to their children. One can commonly see school shootings, child abuse, molestation and murder. Divorce laws are easy and tempts every spouse to file for divorce and split the family and its wealth for any stupid reason. The innocent children are left without any parental guidance and love. The materialistic society is full of greed and anger. It has no patience or tolerance for people who are different. Racism still exists but in an undeclared form.
The Rich hardly pay any taxes. Many rich and high ranking political leaders have been found cheating their spouses.
Jails are over crowded, and at the same time, many criminals are still roaming our streets to find new victims. How many cameras do we need to watch every citizen?
All this may never change unless it tries to spread Islamic education amongst the people.
Unfortunately, the rue Islamic laws have never been implemented in any Muslim country anywhere. Saudi Arabia, Pakistan or any other country have failed to implement the real Quranic Islamic laws and that is why they are also in a big mess/
Shariah is merely an interpertations of the Quran and they can be modified to serve the Humanity in a pactical way

Since: Apr 12

San Francisco, CA

#110 Feb 6, 2013
animals against islam wrote:
<quoted text>
This is hilarious.
Do you really think the apostles were originally named Peter Paul and John.
If you don't think names mean something, just reverse the example a little bit - I know someone named Ahmad, which religious group does he likely belong to?

Paul Peter John? I don't know, do you? I don't live 2000 years ago, but I do know the doctor currently choose "Mark" when he could have chosen "Abu". As of today, "Mark" isn't representative of a Muslim name. When it comes to gathering evidence, every bits count doesn't it?

Not saying that he can't be a muslim.
Malhotra

Ghaziabad, India

#111 Feb 6, 2013
Faith wrote:
<quoted text>Manny, Moe and Jack. Jesus turned water into wine; Muhammad raped a dead body.
Woh juth hai tu madarchod. Tum kaisi itna gandoo admi hua?

Since: Feb 13

Faisalabad, Pakistan

#112 Feb 6, 2013
just as Joseph answered I am taken by surprise that some people able to make $4314 in one month on the computer. did you read this web page =======bit90.com=======

“Facts, not fiction”

Since: Apr 07

Earth

#113 Feb 6, 2013
Khan wrote:
<quoted text>
The religion of Islam emphasizes a great deal about acqyuiring education. Education is a wealth, which nobody can steal from you as the Muslims elders explain to the Muslim youth.
Getting an education is different from understanding science. Learning how to read is "an education", but it doesn't help you understand what the words say.
Khan wrote:
<quoted text>
Thousands of parents from the poor Muslim countries sent their kids to acquire higher education in America, sending the high Tution fees and suffering financial difficulties.
And then they come back and just because they can say they've been "educated" in the US, they are preferred in jobs. It's a political choice, not a true educational choice.
Khan wrote:
<quoted text>
Most Muslim countries were colonized and invaded by the European invaders who were not interested in providing their subjects with good education and hence they suffered academically.
This is complete and utter nonsense. Tell me, when was Turkey invaded by "European invaders"? Never, and thus its poor academic standing is not related to this aspect. Let's try another one: Saudi Arabia. When was it invaded again? Never, and despite billions and billions of oil income for the last 60 years it has only recently (as in last decade or so) been able to get the literacy rate of its youth above 90%!

Well, how about Iran? Of all muslim countries it has by far the highest standing in science. And still it isn't doing well. Also here no excuse of being "colonized".

And those countries that were under colonial rule have in general seen their education fall after the colonists left.
Khan wrote:
<quoted text>
Pakistan was able to produce one Nobel Prize winner, Dr. Abdul Salam.
Pakistan was unable to produce a Nobel Prize winner. Abdus Salam was educated in what was then India under English rule. Of course, he did most of his scientific work in the West (UK, mainly). Oh, and it is quite funny to mention him, considering that Pakistan doesn’t even consider him a muslim (wrong sect).
Khan wrote:
<quoted text>
Many other great scientists from Pakistan like Dr. Saleem uz Zaman Siddiqui,
Educated in then English India, the UK and Germany.
Khan wrote:
<quoted text>
Dr. Ahmed Mohiuddin, who conducted extensive Medical research in Tropical diseases reached International fame.
Well, that was surprising…educated in English India!
Your claim that academia suffered unhe colonial powers appears to be rather contradictory when you come with these examples. Where are the eminent scientists educated in Pakistan AFTER the colonial rule?
Khan wrote:
<quoted text>
America should pack up and leave from all the war torn areas that it has created, and stop the Divide and Rule policy between the Shia and Sunnis, and instead of war mongering and bigotry, open some good schools so that the world becomes a peaceful and civilized place.
The US is not needed for any divide and rule between shias and sunnis. History has shown that time and time again.
You might also want to look up “American University of” and the many schools funded by USAID.
Khan

Wichita, KS

#114 Feb 6, 2013
Marco the atheist wrote:
<quoted text>
Getting an education is different from understanding science. Learning how to read is "an education", but it doesn't help you understand what the words say.
<quoted text>

There are many well-educated and highly skilled professionals from Muslim countries who are employed in Medical and Technological fields in the States and are highly respected. A Pakistani Aerospace Engineer with a Masters degree told me that his white American boss confessed to him that he is only a High school pass but has acquired a lot of eperience in the field. Would that be acceptable to you?

Turkey was and still is one of the most powerful Muslim country of the world. In order to break the this great Empire, the Colonialists sent "Lawrence of Arabia" to foster severe hatred and enemosity between the Arabs and Turks, and then they were defeated by the evil Colonialists.

And then they come back and just because they can say they've been "educated" in the US, they are preferred in jobs. It's a political choice, not a true educational choice.
<quoted text>

Many American universities fail to provide proper education. Students have mastered the art of getting a good grade instead of learning and educating themselves.

This is complete and utter nonsense. Tell me, when was Turkey invaded by "European invaders"? Never, and thus its poor academic standing is not related to this aspect. Let's try another one: Saudi Arabia. When was it invaded again? Never, and despite billions and billions of oil income for the last 60 years it has only recently (as in last decade or so) been able to get the literacy rate of its youth above 90%!
Well, how about Iran? Of all muslim countries it has by far the highest standing in science. And still it isn't doing well. Also here no excuse of being "colonized".
And those countries that were under colonial rule have in general seen their education fall after the colonists left.
<quoted text>
Pakistan was unable to produce a Nobel Prize winner. Abdus Salam was educated in what was then India under English rule. Of course, he did most of his scientific work in the West (UK, mainly). Oh, and it is quite funny to mention him, considering that Pakistan doesn’t even consider him a muslim (wrong sect).
<quoted text>
Educated in then English India, the UK and Germany.
<quoted text>

Dr. Salam retained his Pakistani citizenship in order to receive the Nobel prize as a Pakistani. True that he belonged to a different sect of Islam which was again created under the Colonialist Divide and Rule policy.
.
Well, that was surprising…educated in English India!
Your claim that academia suffered unhe colonial powers appears to be rather contradictory when you come with these examples. Where are the eminent scientists educated in Pakistan AFTER the colonial rule?
<quoted text>
The US is not needed for any divide and rule between shias and sunnis. History has shown that time and time again.
You might also want to look up “American University of” and the many schools funded by USAID.
The Roots of Violence:
Wealth without work,
Pleasure without conscience,
Knowledge without character,
Commerce without morality,
Science without humanity,
Worship without sacrifice,
Politics without principles.

That is what America has become

Since: Jun 08

Location hidden

#115 Feb 6, 2013
Trisha wrote:
<quoted text>
You do not keep up on current events.
Go back to grade school.
Let me guess ...

are you hearing those current events from that white house people ?....
you have to grow up to be grade school...
Ex Muslim

Quesnel, Canada

#116 Feb 6, 2013
Khan wrote:
<quoted text>
Blatant, stupid and absurd lies from the Anti-Faith.
May God teach you a good lesson.
No other religion except Islam do not answers the big questions of life, such as Who made us? and Why are we here? Perhaps other religions do not reconcile the injustices of life with a fair and just Creator. Perhaps we find hypocrisy in the clergy, untenable tenets of faith in the canon, or corruption in the scripture. Whatever the reason, we perceive shortcomings in the religions of our exposure, and look elsewhere. And the ultimate elsewhere is Islam.
Islamic teachings of morality and honesty are needed very badly in the decadent and dishonest American culture and society today. While God has given America with many gifts and blessings, there are many who are constantly cheating God, not obeying the teachings of the Prophets or the Constitutional Laws written in the Jeffersonian Democracy.
With the services of expensive lawyers, the criminals and the murderers are getting away with their crimes and sins.
Too much porn and nudity is explicitly shown in the Media and Magazines. An American woman is only appreciated for her curves and sexual parts, not what for her internal beauty. The poor American woman has simply been reduced to a piece of meat in America. No respect. 2-3 million immoral and unwanted teenage pregnancies and abortions occur every year. The parents have been unable to teach any morality to their children. One can commonly see school shootings, child abuse, molestation and murder. Divorce laws are easy and tempts every spouse to file for divorce and split the family and its wealth for any stupid reason. The innocent children are left without any parental guidance and love. The materialistic society is full of greed and anger. It has no patience or tolerance for people who are different. Racism still exists but in an undeclared form.
The Rich hardly pay any taxes. Many rich and high ranking political leaders have been found cheating their spouses.
Jails are over crowded, and at the same time, many criminals are still roaming our streets to find new victims. How many cameras do we need to watch every citizen?
All this may never change unless it tries to spread Islamic education amongst the people.
Unfortunately, the rue Islamic laws have never been implemented in any Muslim country anywhere. Saudi Arabia, Pakistan or any other country have failed to implement the real Quranic Islamic laws and that is why they are also in a big mess/
Shariah is merely an interpertations of the Quran and they can be modified to serve the Humanity in a pactical way
Khan, you have a very poor understanding about history or world affairs.

America may suffer some of these problems, but it has no root in them being irreligious or deviating from Islam. Look at our countries. I am a Pakistani, and I can attest to just how bad things are there. You claim that they are not following "true Islam"... well then tell me what IS true Islam? All of these countries are headed by numerous sheikhs, scholars, and Imams who have spent their whole life studying Islam, who have neglected almost all other fields except for religion. They have spent years studying so many other scholars, mullahs, and experts on Islam. They have so much knowledge that all other leaders listen to them, for they spend every waking momemnt in service to Islam. It is they who run Saudi Arabia and Iran. They who are responsible for all the laws, modes of governance, societal repressions, and thus the backwardness and chaos you see in the Muslim world.

And yet you claim to know more about Islam than them?
Ex Muslim

Quesnel, Canada

#117 Feb 6, 2013
Moreover Khan,

What is the happiest country in the world? In all happiness rankings, Denmark is the happiest country in the world.
What country has the highest Human Development Index (HDI), a measurement the UN makes about how peaceful, just, happy, comfortable, prosperous, and advanced a nation is? Norway has been the best country to live in the world for the past 8 years in a row.
What country has the lowest homicide rate in the world? Japan.
What country's citizens donate the most to charity per capita every year? It is Norway.

What is the commanility between these countries? Well they happen to be the most athiestic (or most non-religious) countries of the world.

In fact you generally see a trend that the less religious a country is, the more prosperous, happy, peaceful, and just it is. Religion has little do with producing a stable society.

Since: Jun 08

Location hidden

#118 Feb 6, 2013
Ex Muslim wrote:
Moreover Khan,
What is the happiest country in the world? In all happiness rankings, Denmark is the happiest country in the world.
What country has the highest Human Development Index (HDI), a measurement the UN makes about how peaceful, just, happy, comfortable, prosperous, and advanced a nation is? Norway has been the best country to live in the world for the past 8 years in a row.
What country has the lowest homicide rate in the world? Japan.
What country's citizens donate the most to charity per capita every year? It is Norway.
What is the commanility between these countries? Well they happen to be the most athiestic (or most non-religious) countries of the world.
In fact you generally see a trend that the less religious a country is, the more prosperous, happy, peaceful, and just it is. Religion has little do with producing a stable society.
self explanatory
http://www.nationmaster.com/compare/Saudi-Ara...
Ex Muslim

Quesnel, Canada

#119 Feb 6, 2013
Irzath wrote:
<quoted text>
self explanatory
http://www.nationmaster.com/compare/Saudi-Ara...
First of all, if you want to compare countries like that you're going to do a heck of a lot more research than one website, which is already notorious for its sometimes inconsistency and inaccuracy (see http://michaelsiegel.net/... ).

America has a higher total number of crimes than Saudi Arabia, yes. But it's population is also more than 12X larger.
Second of all, we have to consider that America is more transparent about its crimes, and has a better degree of oversight that reports these figures. So while America does have more crimes than Saudi, it also has an immensely larger population (more than 300 million), better crime statistics, and also better due process.

In fact according to the Economic Intelligence Report, the most violent country in the world is actually Somalia, followed by Afghanistan, Sudan, and Iraq? Pakistan is also in the top 10.
Is it not ironic how the most violent countries in the world are overwhelmingly Muslim countries? The majority of their violence is linked to religious and secterial conflicts.

Furthermore, Saudi also has one of the worst human rights, equality, justice, and democratic rankings in the world. Freedom House even rated as one of the most unfree nations in the world, citing its abhorrent record of abuse and rights violations ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_... ).

Lets not even get started on scientific and cultural output. America is THE leader in scientific advancements, amount of scientific papers published, the most Nobel Prizes won, and is where all of the technology you're using to communicate with me came from.
Our Muslim countries have done almost nothing in the past 100 years. Our few accomplished scientists were trained and matured in the West, mostly in America, where they had opportunities and resources available to them nowhere else.

So do some more research please before you try to argue about these things.

Since: Oct 06

Location hidden

#120 Feb 6, 2013
Ex Muslim wrote:
<quoted text>
First of all, if you want to compare countries like that you're going to do a heck of a lot more research than one website, which is already notorious for its sometimes inconsistency and inaccuracy (see http://michaelsiegel.net/... ).
America has a higher total number of crimes than Saudi Arabia, yes. But it's population is also more than 12X larger.
Second of all, we have to consider that America is more transparent about its crimes, and has a better degree of oversight that reports these figures. So while America does have more crimes than Saudi, it also has an immensely larger population (more than 300 million), better crime statistics, and also better due process.
In fact according to the Economic Intelligence Report, the most violent country in the world is actually Somalia, followed by Afghanistan, Sudan, and Iraq? Pakistan is also in the top 10.
Is it not ironic how the most violent countries in the world are overwhelmingly Muslim countries? The majority of their violence is linked to religious and secterial conflicts.
Furthermore, Saudi also has one of the worst human rights, equality, justice, and democratic rankings in the world. Freedom House even rated as one of the most unfree nations in the world, citing its abhorrent record of abuse and rights violations ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_... ).
Lets not even get started on scientific and cultural output. America is THE leader in scientific advancements, amount of scientific papers published, the most Nobel Prizes won, and is where all of the technology you're using to communicate with me came from.
Our Muslim countries have done almost nothing in the past 100 years. Our few accomplished scientists were trained and matured in the West, mostly in America, where they had opportunities and resources available to them nowhere else.
So do some more research please before you try to argue about these things.
Well done, thank you.
And I also ask you to keep posting, I have much to learn from you and I would guess I'm not the only one.

Since: Oct 06

Location hidden

#121 Feb 6, 2013
Irzath wrote:
<quoted text>
Let me guess ...
are you hearing those current events from that white house people ?....
you have to grow up to be grade school...
Well of course you guess wrong.

Check mate.
Khan

Wichita, KS

#122 Feb 7, 2013
Ex Muslim wrote:
<quoted text>
Khan, you have a very poor understanding about history or world affairs.
America may suffer some of these problems, but it has no root in them being irreligious or deviating from Islam. Look at our countries. I am a Pakistani, and I can attest to just how bad things are there. You claim that they are not following "true Islam"... well then tell me what IS true Islam? All of these countries are headed by numerous sheikhs, scholars, and Imams who have spent their whole life studying Islam, who have neglected almost all other fields except for religion. They have spent years studying so many other scholars, mullahs, and experts on Islam. They have so much knowledge that all other leaders listen to them, for they spend every waking momemnt in service to Islam. It is they who run Saudi Arabia and Iran. They who are responsible for all the laws, modes of governance, societal repressions, and thus the backwardness and chaos you see in the Muslim world.
And yet you claim to know more about Islam than them?
What can I expect from a Screen name "Ex-Muslim".
He could be a Hindu hatemonger with no compassion or understanding as to how the Muslim world is suffering under the Anglo-American-Zionist Terrorism in the world.

Do you have any guts to raise objection to the inhumane Drone bombings which have only 6% accuracy?

Do you approve of the American aggression in Iraq based on poor intelligence resulting in the massacre of approximately 600,000 Iraqis?

We know Pakistan is going through a serious political turmoil. I know we do not have a competatnt, progressive and honest government. I know it is a corrupt regime and should be replaced ASAP. But, why is the US protecting sch a regime?
But, our homeland is Pakistan and we shall continue to struggle to fix things there.

Ex Muslim you have a brain which is already plagued with the hatred of Islam. Your disgusting and negative comments on such issue are unacceptable.

Since: Jun 08

Location hidden

#123 Feb 7, 2013
Trisha wrote:
<quoted text>
Well of course you guess wrong.
Check mate.
you are hallucinating.
Khan

Wichita, KS

#124 Feb 7, 2013
Cole wrote:
<quoted text>
Obviously you have not read any biographies of Prophet Muhammad -- who he was, his missions, and his accompolishments. I recommend you to read Michael A. Hart's: A Ranking of the 100 Most Influential Persons in History, where he roughly says that his choice of Prophet Muhammad as the foremost person to top the list might be argued and even rejected by some, but he defended it by saying "He is the only person in history who is supremely successful at both secular and religious levels". The Age of Enlightenment really started in the Muslim world well before it spread into Europe as your celebrated Renaissance, which I as a Muslim partake to celebrate pride and glory. The amazing discoveries and inventions by Muslim scholars in the field of mathematics, algebra, trigonometry,metallurgy, astronomy,chemistry, biology, navigation, to name a few, speak volumes of their intellectual genius well before the seat of learning shifted to Europe. Muslims have every reason to feel envious of the intellectual and technological progress of the West today, but please DO NOT sink in your ignorance to deny that it was the Muslim Arab scholars who preserved, expanded and transmitted knowledge from Cordova and Andalucia (of Spain today) to the rest of Europe. The intellectual malaise affecting the Muslim world then (remember the vast Ottoman Empire?)and now is pretty much their internal problem, inasmuch as the onslaught of Western colonialism (Portuguese, Dutch, British, French,Germans included)which caused the downfall of great centers of Muslim learning and civilizations. Even the mighty Roman Empire had its glory and downfall, as do Muslim empires. Do you get it? Let us be more rational in presenting our views. Peace to you man. I can't heap scorn and abuse at anybody who is honestly ignorant or ignorantly honest!
Thanks Cole.
Warmongers and Neurotic hatemongers are spreading Islamophobia, and hate speech everywhere.
It is our duty to improve their understanding.

Since: Jun 08

Location hidden

#125 Feb 7, 2013
Ex Muslim wrote:
<quoted text>
First of all, if you want to compare countries like that you're going to do a heck of a lot more research than one website, which is already notorious for its sometimes inconsistency and inaccuracy (see http://michaelsiegel.net/... ).
America has a higher total number of crimes than Saudi Arabia, yes. But it's population is also more than 12X larger.
Second of all, we have to consider that America is more transparent about its crimes, and has a better degree of oversight that reports these figures. So while America does have more crimes than Saudi, it also has an immensely larger population (more than 300 million), better crime statistics, and also better due process.
In fact according to the Economic Intelligence Report, the most violent country in the world is actually Somalia, followed by Afghanistan, Sudan, and Iraq? Pakistan is also in the top 10.
Is it not ironic how the most violent countries in the world are overwhelmingly Muslim countries? The majority of their violence is linked to religious and secterial conflicts.
Furthermore, Saudi also has one of the worst human rights, equality, justice, and democratic rankings in the world. Freedom House even rated as one of the most unfree nations in the world, citing its abhorrent record of abuse and rights violations ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_... ).
Lets not even get started on scientific and cultural output. America is THE leader in scientific advancements, amount of scientific papers published, the most Nobel Prizes won, and is where all of the technology you're using to communicate with me came from.
Our Muslim countries have done almost nothing in the past 100 years. Our few accomplished scientists were trained and matured in the West, mostly in America, where they had opportunities and resources available to them nowhere else.
So do some more research please before you try to argue about these things.
http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top-ten/coun...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countrie...

well this explains then

Since: Feb 13

Dawson Creek, Canada

#126 Feb 7, 2013
Khan wrote:
<quoted text>
What can I expect from a Screen name "Ex-Muslim".
He could be a Hindu hatemonger with no compassion or understanding as to how the Muslim world is suffering under the Anglo-American-Zionist Terrorism in the world.
Do you have any guts to raise objection to the inhumane Drone bombings which have only 6% accuracy?
Do you approve of the American aggression in Iraq based on poor intelligence resulting in the massacre of approximately 600,000 Iraqis?
We know Pakistan is going through a serious political turmoil. I know we do not have a competatnt, progressive and honest government. I know it is a corrupt regime and should be replaced ASAP. But, why is the US protecting sch a regime?
But, our homeland is Pakistan and we shall continue to struggle to fix things there.
Ex Muslim you have a brain which is already plagued with the hatred of Islam. Your disgusting and negative comments on such issue are unacceptable.
Ah a fellow Pakistani. I am NOT a Hindu, and neither is there a "Anglo-American-Zionist " threat in the world.

However I will digress a little. I am completely in accordance with you about the efficacy of the drone attacks (not to mention their immorality), as well as US foreign policy towards foreign dictators. However the Muslim world is no exception, as America has freely supported dictators of various other countries before (Cuba for example), the Muslim countries are not some sort of "special target" for the West.

We know that the invasion of Iraq was based on completely ludicrous evidence. And we know America has been shamed for it. But the point I was trying to make before was centered on America's domestic policies not its foreign one. I am deeply critical of it's foreign policy.

That being said, I think you fail to read into your statistics even more. The number one threat to our country is not the foreigners, but rather the Muslims themeselves. Let's examine that. According to the United Nations, 80% of the civilian casualties during the Afghanistan War was caused by the Taliban and other Islamic extremist groups. In Iraq, Saddam Hussein was already brutalizing his people and destroying them long before it was invaded. Even to this today, the majority of civilian deaths were caused by Muslim infighting between the Sunni and Shia and by other radical groups.

So while many innocents have died as a result of collateral damage during the last decade, the majority of them were killed by the Taliban, Al-Qaeda, and other affiliates ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualt... (2001%E2%80%93present).

Our Pakistan cannot be fixed through fighting these foreigners off. No, as the corruption lies within. There is a plague of extremism and radiclism that the general populace has been subjected to as a result of Zia Ul Huq's Islamization decades ago. As a result we have things like the Hudood Ordinace and Blasphemy Laws which spread rampant injustice and violation of freedoms of speech, religion, and conscience. This stems from the intense grip Islam has on the uneducated populace. In a society where only 58% of the people can read or write, they rely on their local mullahs and imams for their education and guidance. Often times these idiots spread stupid, nonsensical, and violent ideologies, radicalizng their followers even more. Case in point, Salman Taseer's assassination for trying to free Asiah Bibi by a radicle, who was showered upon by flowers by local Muslims, or the mentally challenged Christian Rimsha Masih was was arrested for "burning holy material"?

The reason why other countries can pick on Pakistan is not a result of an "Anglo-American-Zionist " conspiracy, but because our countries have been weakened by so many different issues and radicalized Islamists that constantly drain away all morality, decency, and peacefulness in our society, resulting in the explusion of our top intellectuals or the assassinations of our bravest politicians.

Since: Feb 13

Dawson Creek, Canada

#128 Feb 7, 2013
Don't get me wrong, I do not support the complete eradication of Islam from Pakistani society. I feel like such a thing is impossible.

However, I push for a move similar to Ataturk's secularization of Turkey in the 1920s. Turkey remains a secular, free (mostly, things have been changing with the rise of Erdogan), democratic, and advancing society.

As Turkey did, secularization, the advancement of women rights, freedom of speech and religion, the governmental regulation of mosques and imams, the abolishment of the madrassa system of governance, and the lessening of religon in government (both local and federal) are necessary to Pakistan's future.

Unfortunately most Muslims will flame up at the thought of these ideas. Which is unfortunate because they are the very things we are sorely lacking that have made us so low and terrible.

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