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Is it me, or is there something creepy about celebrating death? Halloween is over and gone, but I'm still scared.

[DaBroad]

Is it me, or is it creepy how this woman pulls a lot of BS out of all the propaganda pieces about how "evil" Halloween is and passes it off as her own research and ideas, and waits until the day is passed to publish it?

And sticks in a one sentence bit about a tragedy from last year - a kid who got shot by a paranoid drug dealer who somehow missed the fact that it was Halloween and thought the costumed people outside were coming to get him. That incident was more about the problems of the illegal drug trade and addiction than it was about Halloween - could just as easily been a pizza delivery guy who went to the wrong address as it was a bunch of kids at the door.

[NiftyWitch]

"The Druids would plunge a dagger into a victim's chest, observe the way his limbs convulsed as he died, then read the future from his blood spatters. Sometimes, the configuration of his entrails, as they fell to the ground, would also be used for divination."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAHH! !!! Where the h#!! did she dig this up??

[DaBroad]

NiftyWitch wrote:

"The Druids would plunge a dagger into a victim's chest, observe the way his limbs convulsed as he died, then read the future from his blood spatters. Sometimes, the configuration of his entrails, as they fell to the ground, would also be used for divination."
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAHH! !!! Where the h#!! did she dig this up??

Diodorus Siculus, a Greek historian. He actually did write that, concerning Druids around the year 100 BCE. However, there is no evidence that this is currently practiced. Keep in mind that the Romans and Greeks also thought that early Christian sects practiced canibalism - the whole "eat my flesh/drink my blood" thing.

[NiftyWitch]

DaBroad wrote:

<quoted text>
Diodorus Siculus, a Greek historian. He actually did write that, concerning Druids around the year 100 BCE. However, there is no evidence that this is currently practiced. Keep in mind that the Romans and Greeks also thought that early Christian sects practiced canibalism - the whole "eat my flesh/drink my blood" thing.

Weren't the same accusations leveled at the Jews?

[DaBroad]

Yeah, it's always been a great way of making the "other" look more barbaric. We're SOOOO much more civilized, look at what THEY believe - I hear they EAT their own DEAD.

[Sky]

My good Gods! Some people are totally mad. You don't like Halloween, don't celebrate it. It's not our fault that the earlier Christians took over "pagan" holidays so they could more easily convert the non-Christians.
It people like that that give Christians a bad name, one of my best friends is Catholic, he happily accepts that Halloween can be both a celebration for "Pagans" and a nice wee holiday and a bit of fun for everyone else. So why cant everyone one see this too?

[CHRISTMAS CHEER]

What do Pagans celebrate at the Holiday Season? Do you still get gifts?

[Clark Griswold]

CHRISTMAS CHEER wrote:

What do Pagans celebrate at the Holiday Season? Do you still get gifts?

Pagans celebrate Yule, which is the historic Pagan winter festival. I personally like to consider the whole winter holiday a Yule celebration, starting around the middle of December and ending the 3rd of January after the last bowl game.

My family celebrates Christmas, being that with the exception of my mother, they are all christian fundies. I used to get together with them when my nieces and nephews were young, but have stopped, since it's a real challenge for me to be around them anymore. They do things like pray before the meal, which isn't totally unbearable, except for the fact that they all glare at me for starting my salad during it. Then my sister usually buys me some really crappy KMart sweater from all 8 of them, which I can't even use to wash the car because it's mostly polyester and you know how anti-absorbent that stuff is. The crappy sweater part isn't all that bad either, except I have a habit of putting a lot of thought into any present I go to the trouble of buying. So I end up dropping a few hundred bucks on them. Then on the way home I stop off at the nearest Good Will box to deposit my KMart sweater. So from a financial, spiritual, and moral viewpoint, staying home for christmas is a win, win, win, situation for me.

I've got this bad habit of straying off topic in order to voice some of my deep seated animosities, but to get back to your original question, I don't think you need to be christian to celebrate Christmas. I know athiests, agnostics, pagans, and jews that put up a Christmas tree and exchange gifts on Christmas. I associate the whole Yule season with a spirit of giving and fellowship. It's a great time of the year. Lots of parties, the stores are all crowded with shoppers. Believe it or not, every once in a great while I'll even go back to the church I went to as a kid for the Chistmas Eve service... just for nostalgic reasons. I'm a big on nostalgia during the Yule season.

[Clark Griswold]

DaBroad wrote:

<quoted text>
Diodorus Siculus, a Greek historian. He actually did write that, concerning Druids around the year 100 BCE. However, there is no evidence that this is currently practiced. Keep in mind that the Romans and Greeks also thought that early Christian sects practiced canibalism - the whole "eat my flesh/drink my blood" thing.

Human sacrifice was common practice by many faiths back then. Old Testament God was tickled pink by live sacrifices, although I'm not sure he actually advocated sacrificing humans, except for when he told Abraham to sacrifice Isaac, and the old fool was actually going to go through with it until the G man backed out of the deal. It tickled God silly however for you to put some innocent animal up on an alter and slice his throat. It let him know you really cared about him. Back in the B.C. you'd see bumper stickers on ox carts that said, "Love God? Slit a baby lambs throat for him".

[NM Desert Rat]

Clark Griswold wrote:

<quoted text>
Pagans celebrate Yule, which is the historic Pagan winter festival. I personally like to consider the whole winter holiday a Yule celebration, starting around the middle of December and ending the 3rd of January after the last bowl game.
My family celebrates Christmas, being that with the exception of my mother, they are all christian fundies. I used to get together with them when my nieces and nephews were young, but have stopped, since it's a real challenge for me to be around them anymore. They do things like pray before the meal, which isn't totally unbearable, except for the fact that they all glare at me for starting my salad during it. Then my sister usually buys me some really crappy KMart sweater from all 8 of them, which I can't even use to wash the car because it's mostly polyester and you know how anti-absorbent that stuff is. The crappy sweater part isn't all that bad either, except I have a habit of putting a lot of thought into any present I go to the trouble of buying. So I end up dropping a few hundred bucks on them. Then on the way home I stop off at the nearest Good Will box to deposit my KMart sweater. So from a financial, spiritual, and moral viewpoint, staying home for christmas is a win, win, win, situation for me.
I've got this bad habit of straying off topic in order to voice some of my deep seated animosities, but to get back to your original question, I don't think you need to be christian to celebrate Christmas. I know athiests, agnostics, pagans, and jews that put up a Christmas tree and exchange gifts on Christmas. I associate the whole Yule season with a spirit of giving and fellowship. It's a great time of the year. Lots of parties, the stores are all crowded with shoppers. Believe it or not, every once in a great while I'll even go back to the church I went to as a kid for the Chistmas Eve service... just for nostalgic reasons. I'm a big on nostalgia during the Yule season.

Clark I always get a charge out of your posts. I can definitely understand the reason to stay home for Christmas routine. It never fails to amaze me how the Christians can take a Pagan Holiday, Christianize it and then claim it has always been that way. In my grandmother's home Yule lasted 6 days beore the solstice and 6 days after. Gifts were given on all of the days. The holiday was a great time of feasting, partying and family celebration. I carried on the tradition in my home. Other than being labeled a bunch of devil worshiping, crazed, baby sacrificing heathens from my fundie relatives and them screaming we are disrespecting the true meaning of Christmas we carry on the tradition without them.

[Clark Griswold]

NM Desert Rat wrote:

<quoted text>
Clark I always get a charge out of your posts. I can definitely understand the reason to stay home for Christmas routine. It never fails to amaze me how the Christians can take a Pagan Holiday, Christianize it and then claim it has always been that way. In my grandmother's home Yule lasted 6 days beore the solstice and 6 days after. Gifts were given on all of the days. The holiday was a great time of feasting, partying and family celebration. I carried on the tradition in my home. Other than being labeled a bunch of devil worshiping, crazed, baby sacrificing heathens from my fundie relatives and them screaming we are disrespecting the true meaning of Christmas we carry on the tradition without them.

Yeah, the irony of it all is hard to take. And not a single one of these people judging you has even the least bit of a clue as to what your beliefs are. On another note...interesting Rat, I didn't know you were a blue blood. That's very cool. Do you know how many generations your spirituality goes back?

[NM Desert Rat]

Clark Griswold wrote:

<quoted text>
Yeah, the irony of it all is hard to take. And not a single one of these people judging you has even the least bit of a clue as to what your beliefs are. On another note...interesting Rat, I didn't know you were a blue blood. That's very cool. Do you know how many generations your spirituality goes back?

I have no idea how many generations my spiritual path goes back. My grandmother for sure. She used to talk about family traditions but that was about it. She was a firm believer in following the family traditions you like and making your own throughout your life. She was a very interesting woman and a very big influence on my life.

[NM Desert Rat]

Clark Griswold wrote:

<quoted text>
Yeah, the irony of it all is hard to take. And not a single one of these people judging you has even the least bit of a clue as to what your beliefs are. On another note...interesting Rat, I didn't know you were a blue blood. That's very cool. Do you know how many generations your spirituality goes back?

I'm not a blue blood. I think most if not all families have relatives that practiced some or all of the old traditions. I grew up on a farm. My grandmother was very close to the earth and seasons so naturally her beliefs were in that area. She felt Christianity was a blood sucking waste of time. The church was more interested in fleecing the flock than tending to it. My parents were Christian so I was raised as a Lutheran. My grandmothers beliefs appealed to me more than Christianity so I left the church at a young age.

[Clark Griswold]

Your Grandma was a wise woman.

[Lillithmoon]

NM Desert Rat wrote:

<quoted text>
I'm not a blue blood. I think most if not all families have relatives that practiced some or all of the old traditions. I grew up on a farm. My grandmother was very close to the earth and seasons so naturally her beliefs were in that area. She felt Christianity was a blood sucking waste of time. The church was more interested in fleecing the flock than tending to it. My parents were Christian so I was raised as a Lutheran. My grandmothers beliefs appealed to me more than Christianity so I left the church at a young age.

Man NM your grandmother sounds like an incredible woman. I would have truly loved to have met and talked with her. You are very lucky to have had her in your life.:)

[Silent Bob7]

Aye! Grandma sounds very cool indeed! I really don't have anything else to say, I just wanted to make my 200th reply hehe.(I think I have a problem).

[Sheila]

NM Desert Rat wrote:

<quoted text>
I'm not a blue blood. I think most if not all families have relatives that practiced some or all of the old traditions. I grew up on a farm. My grandmother was very close to the earth and seasons so naturally her beliefs were in that area. She felt Christianity was a blood sucking waste of time. The church was more interested in fleecing the flock than tending to it. My parents were Christian so I was raised as a Lutheran. My grandmothers beliefs appealed to me more than Christianity so I left the church at a young age.

Uh, you do realize that there's no such thing as magic, don't you?

[Clark Griswold]

Sheila wrote:

<quoted text>Uh, you do realize that there's no such thing as magic, don't you?

Oh look we've got a new resident troll. Isn't she cute.

[Sheila]

NM Desert Rat wrote:

<quoted text>
Clark I always get a charge out of your posts. I can definitely understand the reason to stay home for Christmas routine. It never fails to amaze me how the Christians can take a Pagan Holiday, Christianize it and then claim it has always been that way. In my grandmother's home Yule lasted 6 days beore the solstice and 6 days after. Gifts were given on all of the days. The holiday was a great time of feasting, partying and family celebration. I carried on the tradition in my home. Other than being labeled a bunch of devil worshiping, crazed, baby sacrificing heathens from my fundie relatives and them screaming we are disrespecting the true meaning of Christmas we carry on the tradition without them.

That's funny as hell, considering the crap I get labeled "demon-possessed" for. And that was before becoming an Atheist.

[Sheila]

Clark Griswold wrote:

<quoted text>
Oh look we've got a new resident troll. Isn't she cute.

Just pointing out reality, baby.