Sharks don't have look of champions

Sharks don't have look of champions

There are 36 comments on the Vallejo Times-Herald story from Aug 2, 2008, titled Sharks don't have look of champions. In it, Vallejo Times-Herald reports that:

Standing amid a deafening crowd at AT&T Park, I tried to enjoy the history-making moment when Barry Bonds hit his 756th home run.

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#1 Aug 2, 2008
Can't say that I disagree with you Ryan. Wilson did nothing to improve the teams two weakest area's, that being toughness and the other being leftwing. This team still has no legitmate 2nd line Left Winger capable of scoring 25 goals.

What you get from Wilson is the same type of thing you get from the Giants, a management group that after it makes a mistake tries to touch it up by making a PR move. The Giants signed Barry Zito after they knew that were not going to resign Bonds. And the Sharks signed Rob Blake just as a PR move to try and convince fans that they are doing whatever it takes to win. Funny thing is that Blake turned down the Sharks twice before, and is agent actually told the Kings that Blake would resign with them for 4 Million a year. In fact Blake's agent shopped Blake to the Avs for $4 million a year. But the Sharks had to throw 5 million at Blake (1 million more then is agent was even asking for) just for him to come to SJ.

San Francisco, CA

#2 Aug 2, 2008
It is so easy to sit back and write and so hard to go out and do. Have you been a GM? Have you ever made a hockey trade?

Mr. Wilson was a Norris Trophy winner, the original Sharks Captain and an executive in the players association. He makes good trades and has a focus on winning. Wilson had to move Rivet because the team was over the cap...hello. Would Wilson have rather kept Rivet or moved McLaren..... sure, but you have to find a partner willing to trade.

I am excited about the upcoming season and understand the urgency of going for the Cup while you have this strong core of experienced players.

Comparing the Sharks to the Giants is pretty lame.

Walnut Creek, CA

#3 Aug 2, 2008
Have to agree with most of this. Losing Rivet will hurt. In addition to your points, he actually wanted to play here and enjoyed it, something that can't be said of everyone. Boyle, I can understand, though I agree it was overpayment. Blake is the big mystery to me. How anyone can think he's going to be worth 5 mill at this point in his career, is stupifying. The only part I disagree about is Parker/Shelley. Plenty of teams get by without an enforcer (e.g. Red Wings). Neither of them are needed and that spot would be better held by someone that can skate.

United States

#4 Aug 2, 2008

Have you ever been a GM? Lots of players have been Norris Trophy winners and team captains does that mean that they don't make mistakes and stick with players too long, or that they cannot see through blinders. Some times the best way to view ones own team is to get an outsiders take. That being an expert about the sports, but not associated with the team.

As for being over the salary cap when Rivet was moved that is just not true.

I wasn't comparing the Sharks to the Giants, I was comparing the Sharks management to the management style of the Giants.
Fine Garner

San Francisco, CA

#5 Aug 2, 2008
The gamble blew up in his face, and rather than letting it go and chalking it up to bad luck or bad timing he took a chunk out of the prospect pool, dealt a young defenseman in Carle who will most likely be better and cheaper than Boyle in two years

Don't think anyone will let you forget this line, if you're still writing about hockey the, which I doubt.

Isn't this the same crap you wrote a month ago for hockeybuzz? At least come up with something with something new. Yeah yeah, you want Marleau gone, or you don't think they'll win, but tell me how they are not better next year right now with Boyle Blake and Lukowich than they would be with Carle Rivet and Wishart. And if you concede that they are better, then we have a better chance of winning the Cup next year. The degree of depletion of the prospect pool completely depends on the outcomes of Carle and Wishart, and it's only your opinion that they will be star NHL players soon. If you think Wishart is a sure-fire next Pronger, tell me about Raymond Macias and Paul Albers that led the WHL in D scoring the previous two years. Stats don't mean crap when it comes to junior. Vlasic was a offensive juggernaut in junior, you don't have to have great O skills to put up big numbers when you are skating 40min/game. Wishart is a big softie as well, and his lateral footwork needs so much work compared to a guy like Vlasic that broke the NHL at such a young age. Don't get me started on Carle, who's foot speed is going to prevent him from being a solid top-4 until he gets faster.

Since: Aug 08

San Francisco, CA

#6 Aug 2, 2008
James - please try to get your facts right before you say mine are wrong. Check out

and you will see the Sharks have $1.3M of cap space left. Last time I checked that is less than the $3.5M Rivet was making.

Edmonton, Canada

#7 Aug 2, 2008
Wow, there's a lot of wrong information in this article. Where to begin:

1) The "benching: of Jody Shelly in the playoffs is something that happens to all tough guys when the playoffs roll around and fighting is not as prevalent. This season when George was in Pittsburgh as well as the year before in Edmonton (both went to the SCF), he sat. You're also assuming that George would want to play in San Jose, and the truth about George is that he enjoys traditional hockey cities. Shelly, like all tough guys see their minutes and effectiveness reduced in important games. Similarly, can you say that Parker is THAT much better than Shelly? I think not.

2) With the ownership situation in Tampa at the end of last year being up in the air, Dan Boyle wasn't available at the deadline. In fact, the team and the former GM loved him and were intent to keep him. In fact it was the new ownership group that forced Boyle out. He wasn't on the market at the time Campbell was.

3) The Matt Carle situation is fully on the shoulders of Ron Wilson and not Doug Wilson. Carle was not put in situations to succeed and his talents were not fully realized. Throughout his tenure as Sharks coach, Wilson has done similar things to Marleau, Cheechoo, and at times even Thornton (Mike Grier on his wing?!). Carle is a quality player, but even the hottest girl sometimes doesn't look her best without the benefit of a hot shower and a nice dress.

While I may agree that some moves weren't the greatest, the Guerin deal was an attempt to rekindle what Thornton and Guerin had in Boston, where Guerin put up his best numbers of his career. I think it was a safe bet, considering that he was also a former Stanley Cup winner AND had a significant amount of toughness.

Ultimately, this was a poorly researched article with little forethought.

Los Angeles, CA

#8 Aug 2, 2008

The Sharks have had plenty of time for their young talent to develop. Thats all we have heard about since the arrival of Joe Thornton. The line goes, "It's ok, cause next year all these kids will be ready top win it all." It simply is not the case, and three straight 2nd round exits prove that a change in direction was needed.

You were probably one of the reporters criticizing Wilson or not having a veteran blueline. He addresses the issues, and then the media flip flops and cry's that he is giving up the future. Well the future is now, and i this team does not get it done in the next two seasons, Wilson will be fired, and the Sharks will be stripped for draft picks and young talent, Oakland A's/Billy Bea style.

Make it happen Big Joe, or the San Jose/Bay Area haven will turn into another purgatory from whence you will pray for an exit.

Ken in South Florida

East Lansing, MI

#9 Aug 2, 2008
I grew up in the Bay Area and follow the Sharks very closely.
I am also concerned that Doug Wilson is giving away the future for the present. At the same time you have to admire the fact he is willing to go for it all right now.
Brian Campbell showed what a truly great skating, first pass offensive minded defensemen could do for the Sharks near seasons end. Unfortunately he did not seem totally committed to winning and seemed tentative in the playoffs. Perhaps his concern was protecting his upcoming huge contract. While some players enjoy the anonymity it sounded like he wanted to be in the spotlight and recognized wherever he went. Wilson tried to re-sign him but would not match Chicago's ridiculous contract.
Wilson then went out and did a better thing in getting Boyle. While older he is a better all around player. On the surface it appears the Sharks gave up too much but that will not really be known for the next few seasons.
Rob Blake is another story. At this stage of his career $5 mil seems like an gross overpayment. Especially at the expense of Rivet. Does high spending insure playoff success? Look at the Red Wings and then look at the Rangers.
Two issues people do not discuss:
- Thornton's unwillingness to stand in front of the net. He is a great player but could even be more of a dominant force if he was willing to pay the price. While he puts up big numbers I could see why the Bruins were frustrated with him.
- The leadership factor on the Sharks. Who is the true captain? I know Marleau wears the "C" but even the more knowledgeable Canadian media often assumes Thornton is. I'm hoping the new coach can light fires under both these players who have not consistently played up to their true potentials.

Just my two cents.

Dunkirk, NY

#10 Aug 2, 2008
I think you're way off base for bemoaning the wrong trade. San Jose went on a winning streak that scared the rest of the NHL and then charged into the post season looking ready. One cold streak in the post season is unfortunate, yes, but it does NOT mean it was the wrong trade. Brian Campbell isn't off his game very often, and I can promise you, if the Sharks could have afforded Campbell's salary, he would have been THE key piece in their defense. Rivet taught the young defenceman of the Sharks and possibly gave them the only thing he could, his veteran leadership, so it was time for him to move on and let young, taught-by-Rivet defencemen take over and make way for the Sharks this year.

The Sharks aren't the ones who lack heart OR grit, in any measurement, I saw it, even in their loss this last postseason. Being the one who typed it, it is you who lack heart or the mind to understand it when it is there. The Sharks have heart in spades and the desire to win and give their fans that Cup dripping from them- like sweat and tears through 4 overtimes.

United States

#11 Aug 2, 2008

Actually if Wilson did what he should have done, that is keep Rivet and NOT OVERPAY for Rob Blake the Sharks wouldn't be over the cap at all. In fact they would've had an extra 1.5 million in cap space to play with. If Wilson hadn't made a desprete PR move to sign Blake.

The only reason Wilson signed Blake was because he was facing pressure from the fans, and people like Garner the one actual writer in the Bay Area that prints and writes anything negitive about the Sharks. The signing of Blake was just stupid and Wilson overpaid by a former buddy of his. Blake never wanted to play here. Hence the reason he didn't agree to be traded here not once, but twice. And didn't want to sign here as a free agent last off season, hence the reason he went to LA. Blake is a bum, who is on his last legs. Wilson should've done the Boyle deal (although I think he overpaid, like always, to some extent) Then passed on Blake and we would still have Rivet and 1.5 million in cap space.

Now tell me was signing Blake worth losing Rivet and cap space, considering that Rivet is younger, was signed through next season and actually played with heart. If Wilson and Sharks management really wanted Blake that bad, then they should have dumped McLaren and tried to trade someone like Goc then we could've had both Blake and Rivet. But Wilson like always reacted to pressure and folded under it, just like the team. No free agents want to come to San Jose unless they are grossly overpaid, because they know that our management has no real desire to win the cup.

Thanks for an honest assesment of the Sharks Ryan, its a breath of fresh air, after reading and hearing from the Sharks PR machine on the SJ Mercury News. Finally someone with the guts to tell it like it really is.

United States

#12 Aug 2, 2008
Fine Garner

Well so far it looks like Ryan is correct with his assesment. Last I looked the Sharks have never won a SC, and in fact are the only California team to never win the conference and appear in the SC finals. You may not like Ryan, but at least he speaks with passion, and doesn't always sugar coat it, like the guy at the Mercury news does. You wanna hear all positives no negitives about the Sharks led the Mercury news, where most of the writers wouldn't be able to name even 10 Sharks players.

United States

#13 Aug 2, 2008
well, i follow the sharks pretty closely but some of the nuances of some of these trades still escape me. if i were able to listen to my own instincts better (and knew what i was talking about a little more) i think i'd have to agree with mr. Garner. what he wrote sounds pretty right to me, unfortunately. it seems like the sharks are backpedalling. i think a lot of us, for instance, thought that maybe ron wilson had to go... but after it happened i wasn't so sure. then rivet and carle go. and... he re-signs shelley. i have to agree with mr Garner that, as an enforcer, shelley is winnie the pooh. i thought it was really interesting that rivet was dispensed with but mike grier is still on the payroll. i watched all of the playoffs on tv, saw one game live, and i have to say that i was pretty disgusted by the effort i saw from grier. why is he still around, when several other valuable pieces of the puzzle have been discarded? well, doug wilson has a history of surprising me with his moves, i usually think he's wrong and he's usually right. so... i guess we'll see.

United States

#14 Aug 2, 2008
-We traded our future? Not really, your looking at one of the youngest teams last year. Carle and wishart are far from actually getting us a cup.
-You talk about the stanley cup as if having the greatest blueline in sharks history isn't going to help a bit, and as if these prospects are going to take us there. Which would you rather do? Wait for carle to be good sometime in 5 seasons for us to have a chance at the cup? I'd much rather have us take a chance
-Rivet was a big loss, but clowe and Blake combined should help with the "heart" condition of the sharks.
-you shouldn't blame DW for not realizing Campbell wanted to go to UFA, and believing Campbell when he said there was a chance he'd stay here. I'd much rather have DW make deals to get key players at the beginning of the season instead of getting guys who don't want to be here at the deadline.
-shelley stopped getting playoff time after he TOOK NO PRISONERS against kipper, don't you remember him going crazy and spearing turco in the sack? Exactly. I'm willing to give the guy a chance, and he's a way more reliable 4th liner than Parker.


#15 Aug 3, 2008

To set the record straight you said

Carle was not put in situations to succeed and his talents were not fully realized.

And that that fell on Ron Wilson, okay so Ron Wilson was fired and then 2 months later Carle was traded. So first you say its RW fault that Carle was not put into situations to succeed and then you blame RW again for Doug Wilson trading him. I am confused, I think both Garner and myself would agree that Carle's talents were not fully realizied so why did Doug Wilson trade him then?

How do you know that Georges Laraque like traditional cities? Is Phoenix (one of his former teams) a traditional city? As for Shelley like others have said on here he not a real good enforcer but he is a sharks type player, a good family man, who is good in the community.

Mike GB:

We traded our future YES, reread or re understand the article. Not only did we trade Carle and Wishart, but in the last two years alone we have traded away our first round draft picks 2 in a weak 07 draft, 1 in a very deep 08 draft and 1 in the 09 draft. Yes we got 2 back in the weak 07 draft but we also had to trade away a very good goalie in Vesa Toskala. So its more then just Carle and Wishart, its also about draft picks and the future. How will this team look in 5 years and who will be the young upcoming stars then. My guess is not 1 kid from this years Sharks draft will even make the Sharks roster on a full time basis, that's what Ryan means.

Stockton, CA

#16 Aug 3, 2008
You wrote this same article over a month ago. Get some new material you lazy f***

Courtland, CA

#17 Aug 3, 2008
james...SHUT UP.... go whine about something else

San Jose, CA

#18 Aug 3, 2008
James, kill yourself please.
james Jackson


#19 Aug 3, 2008
oh come now,Scott parker's loss meant something.Clowe is just as tough and very valuable on top of it.And Campbell was a great trade.Notice the improvement after it.Carle is error prone and not a particularly big hitter or sticky defender.Boyle is young enough to play for years and is better than any other blue liner on the offense.


#20 Aug 3, 2008
James Hater

"Shut up... go whine about something else" Calling someone a Hater= Someone who is not smart enough to refute what was said. Funny that when your right you get comments like that from Mike GB and Barrio.

It is also called being lazy and stupid.

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