Which option will Islanders' choose f...

Which option will Islanders' choose for NHL draft

There are 115 comments on the Newsday story from May 16, 2009, titled Which option will Islanders' choose for NHL draft. In it, Newsday reports that:

BY GREG LOGAN [email protected] There are less than six weeks left until the June 26 NHL draft in which the Islanders hold the No.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.

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Matt

Valley Stream, NY

#105 May 19, 2009
Rob wrote:
<quoted text>
Gee... I don't know... have you ever heard of developing a team? You need depth in your system to do that? Sergei Fedorov was drafted in the 4th round. Why? Because people thought he would never come to the NHL so he was a risk. Sound familiar? For that matter, where was Zetterberg drafted? I like to use the Wings as an example because they have done an amazing job of developing players who were not identified as superstars at draft time. That is the model the Isles need to learn to emulate.
So you saw 1 game and you're ready to discount everything that every pro scout has been saying all along? Has Hedman been playing with adults or not?
BTW - the reason for passing on Filatov was exactly what you're saying. Before the draft he was already expected to be a primadonna who wouldn't take coaching. The Isles don't need another locker room problem added to their woes. Management has stated clearly that character counts in their decisions.
...and all I've been saying is that it's ludicrous to discount Hedman outright. I don't think I would be defending the possible selection nearly as much if there wasn't such insanity in favor of Tavares... who I've stated would likely be an excellent choice. Every single ranking I've seen has explained themselves as ranking them more 1 and 1a than 1 and 2... yet now there are tons of fans who are making insanely 1-sided statements about it being a no-brainer. It's just not that simple.
Don't use the Wings as an example because we do not have their scouts. We had them and thought it would be a good idea to let them go. I never read Filatov wouldn't take to coaching anywhere in fact I believe that is completely fabricated on your part. We had enough picks to fill the system. Gee.... did you ever hear of picking the best player? Maybe I misunderstood your post but I think I got that the reason you support Hedman is because everyone else supports Taveras? That is excellent! Great reason! There are always gems in the draft you are right but I'll go for the better bet anytime. Oh and by the way, I've seen Hedman play more than once, obviously you didn't watch the WJC or you would have known that. I've also watched sel games as well so stop flapping your gums about something you don't know which brings me to-- How do you know Hedman is good? You evidently have never even seen the guy play. You even stated Taveras would be an excellent coice which leads me to ask what the he!! are you saying? I'll tell you one thing if you saw the WJC I don't think you would be so hot on Hedman. Every pro scout has been saying good puck moving d man who shys away from contact, sometimes, most of the time that cannot be taught. He looked like a pile of junk and thats putting it mildly. Where as most scouts are saying JT is projected to be a 40-50 goal scorer and some are saying franchise player. Well keep up the good fight after all more people like Taveras so you have to back Hedman. Ridiculous argument really. Good luck!
Battfist

Howell, NJ

#106 May 19, 2009
I dnt blame Isles management for trading down and getting Bailey last year. As Rob said...we character guys too to get through this. Bailey has talent-I agree he had a rough season last year-but he showed at his age-he can play. He just needs a few years to become a man.

Tavares is the pick.
Rob

Pittsburgh, PA

#107 May 19, 2009
Matt wrote:
<quoted text>Don't use the Wings as an example because we do not have their scouts. We had them and thought it would be a good idea to let them go. I never read Filatov wouldn't take to coaching anywhere in fact I believe that is completely fabricated on your part. We had enough picks to fill the system. Gee.... did you ever hear of picking the best player? Maybe I misunderstood your post but I think I got that the reason you support Hedman is because everyone else supports Taveras? That is excellent! Great reason! There are always gems in the draft you are right but I'll go for the better bet anytime. Oh and by the way, I've seen Hedman play more than once, obviously you didn't watch the WJC or you would have known that. I've also watched sel games as well so stop flapping your gums about something you don't know which brings me to-- How do you know Hedman is good? You evidently have never even seen the guy play. You even stated Taveras would be an excellent coice which leads me to ask what the he!! are you saying? I'll tell you one thing if you saw the WJC I don't think you would be so hot on Hedman. Every pro scout has been saying good puck moving d man who shys away from contact, sometimes, most of the time that cannot be taught. He looked like a pile of junk and thats putting it mildly. Where as most scouts are saying JT is projected to be a 40-50 goal scorer and some are saying franchise player. Well keep up the good fight after all more people like Taveras so you have to back Hedman. Ridiculous argument really. Good luck!
Don't use the Wings as an example because we don't have their scouts? That's not only an idiotic thing to say but it shows you truly didn't understand the comment. The Wings DEVELOP talent from within. It's not just about selecting the right guys but about how you bring them along - and keep them - once they're in your system. Just because the Isles are obviously bad at this right now is absolutely no reason to suggest they shouldn't try to improve. That's plain stupid.

And yes... you did misunderstand my statement about Hedman. I've supported him all along. I've been vocal about defending his possible selection because the rabid Tavares man-love is over the top.

No, I didn't see the WJCs... but a lot of pro scouts did (go figure) and they weren't coming out of it talking about how horrible Hedman is... only you are saying that...

which brings me to Filatov... no, I did not make up the thing about him being a head case. Were you paying attention to the scouting talk last year or is your claim to fame that you watched the WJCs this year... which is obviously the end all be all of hockey knowledge.

I'll state it again because you clearly don't understand it... Hedman is a reasonable choice. He may turn out to be a better choice than Tavares and I'd be willing to take that gamble because I know that in truth defense is a tougher position than offense and what you truly cannot teach is size. The rest of the "cannot teach" comments are generalizations... not necessarily true. Hedman is a large defenseman who is a great skater and puck mover with offensive and defensive prowess. I guess I'll have to ask your forgiveness for believing that all pro scouts agreeing that he's a can't miss franchise player is a better assessment than the fact that you watched the WJCs.

You seem to have ignored the part where I pointed out that the scouts have been calling them 1 and 1a all along. Did I make that up as well?...or did you not have any answer for that so you pretended it wasn't there?
Given even rating I'll take the guy who's going to be on the ice more often. I guess I agree with Torrey like that... going back the beginning of my involvement in this thread. I'd have to be crazy for that, huh?
larry

Holtsville, NY

#108 May 19, 2009
i doubt even one poster here has ever seen taveras play a full game. and the guy who ragged on red line is a moron. I know the guy who runs the service, having spent many hours talking hockey with him, and his pinkie knows more about hockey than any of you. He doesn't like Taveras because of his lack of character. And his skating is an issue. Shall I remind you of two other high islander draft picks who had skating issues. Remember Dave Chyzowski and Scott Scissons. Major busts who couldn't skate. If You want to draft a guy number one with character issues just because he's the sexy choice when there two other franchise types available then you deserve this once proud but now abysmal franchise and the idiots running it.
Matt

Valley Stream, NY

#109 May 19, 2009
larry wrote:
i doubt even one poster here has ever seen taveras play a full game. and the guy who ragged on red line is a moron. I know the guy who runs the service, having spent many hours talking hockey with him, and his pinkie knows more about hockey than any of you. He doesn't like Taveras because of his lack of character. And his skating is an issue. Shall I remind you of two other high islander draft picks who had skating issues. Remember Dave Chyzowski and Scott Scissons. Major busts who couldn't skate. If You want to draft a guy number one with character issues just because he's the sexy choice when there two other franchise types available then you deserve this once proud but now abysmal franchise and the idiots running it.
Kyle Woodleif is a moron. Every write up of his service from here to Toronto has panned his description of Taveras as trying to grab headlines. It was me that criticized him and his "service". I'm not the only one as Mcquire, tsn, and Adam Protaeu did as well. He always seems to pick the unpopular choice thinking its going to get him noticed. Guess what? It worked again, shocker! As far as watching Taveras play I've seen him play once in person and watched the entire WJC as well as a couple televised games when I was in Toronto for a tournament so you can shove that notion. Duschene is not a franchise player only you and your pal think so. The rest of the hockey public realizes he scored 25 less goals than Taveras and did not play against the opposing teams best defensive pairing or checking line like Taveras did. He was a second line player, who cares if he is a nice guy? We are not picking him not even Snow is that stupid. You need to get a clue. If your pal Kyle had so much hockey knowledge maybe he would not have gotten fired from the Preds for making unorthodox decisions and them not working out. By the way, why is one of his "high character" players still playing in Russia after bailing on the team while still under contract? Ponder that one for a while.
Matt

Valley Stream, NY

#110 May 19, 2009
Rob wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't use the Wings as an example because we don't have their scouts? That's not only an idiotic thing to say but it shows you truly didn't understand the comment. The Wings DEVELOP talent from within. It's not just about selecting the right guys but about how you bring them along - and keep them - once they're in your system. Just because the Isles are obviously bad at this right now is absolutely no reason to suggest they shouldn't try to improve. That's plain stupid.
And yes... you did misunderstand my statement about Hedman. I've supported him all along. I've been vocal about defending his possible selection because the rabid Tavares man-love is over the top.
No, I didn't see the WJCs... but a lot of pro scouts did (go figure) and they weren't coming out of it talking about how horrible Hedman is... only you are saying that...
which brings me to Filatov... no, I did not make up the thing about him being a head case. Were you paying attention to the scouting talk last year or is your claim to fame that you watched the WJCs this year... which is obviously the end all be all of hockey knowledge.
I'll state it again because you clearly don't understand it... Hedman is a reasonable choice. He may turn out to be a better choice than Tavares and I'd be willing to take that gamble because I know that in truth defense is a tougher position than offense and what you truly cannot teach is size. The rest of the "cannot teach" comments are generalizations... not necessarily true. Hedman is a large defenseman who is a great skater and puck mover with offensive and defensive prowess. I guess I'll have to ask your forgiveness for believing that all pro scouts agreeing that he's a can't miss franchise player is a better assessment than the fact that you watched the WJCs.
You seem to have ignored the part where I pointed out that the scouts have been calling them 1 and 1a all along. Did I make that up as well?...or did you not have any answer for that so you pretended it wasn't there?
Given even rating I'll take the guy who's going to be on the ice more often. I guess I agree with Torrey like that... going back the beginning of my involvement in this thread. I'd have to be crazy for that, huh?
I'll take the guy thats going to be on the ice longer? I know its a quote from Torrey but who cares. Every scout panned Hedman's performance at the WJC. Why do you think his stock dropped right after? Don't claim to know whats going on when you pretty much said in so many words that you don't. How do you want someone you have never even seen play? The guy is a big whimp. A whimpier Sutton if you could imagine that.
Rob

Pittsburgh, PA

#111 May 19, 2009
Matt wrote:
<quoted text>I'll take the guy thats going to be on the ice longer? I know its a quote from Torrey but who cares. Every scout panned Hedman's performance at the WJC. Why do you think his stock dropped right after? Don't claim to know whats going on when you pretty much said in so many words that you don't. How do you want someone you have never even seen play? The guy is a big whimp. A whimpier Sutton if you could imagine that.
Okay, if anyone is making anything up it is you. His stock dropped? Was there some draft ranking where he was lower than 2 somewhere? Maybe it's on your basement wall?

Just for the heck of it I decided to do a google search on articles and statements from scouts during and after the WJCs.
This was a typical quotation:
"Hedman is so highly thought of that a senior NHL scout who had a lot of success in drafting the past 20 years told a representative at Hockey’s Future during a WJC game this week that he would not hesitate to recommend to his organization to take Hedman instead of Canadian John Tavares as the first overall pick."

I scanned a dozen or so of the top hits and this is the worst thing I found written about him:
"Hedman, the 6-foot-6, 220-pound defenseman currently playing for MODO Hockey Ornskoldsvik in the Swedish Elite League, is renowned for having the skating ability and puck skills of a smaller player. While his performance for silver medalist Sweden at the WJC was less than exemplary -- he finished with 2 assists and a plus-4 rating in six games -- scouts remain enamored by his size and skills."

So stop making things up. Your vacuous comments about phantom scouts who have trashed Hedman are nonsense. I'm going by the things that scouts have actually said.
Rob

United States

#112 May 20, 2009
But we've gone down the road of throwing (at least mild) insults which was not what I intended.

It's obvious why you've decided to focus on the WJCs (and it makes sense to your argument). Last September/October/November everyone was talking about these 2 guys and many scouts were leaning Hedman. Then came the WJCs. Though nobody panned or bashed Hedman (who was playing through an injury anyway) as you said, they did say that Tavares did the most at the WJCs to identify himself as the choice for number 1 overall. He got more praise for his play in that tourney (except for the game against Russia) than any other time in the past year.

If the draft happened in January then there would have likely been little debate about taking Tavares... but the junior season continued. Many described Tavares as looking bored and/or uninspired. In the playoffs, he did not show the passion for lifting his team that he showed at the WJCs... and more of the Hedman talk resurfaced.

Is it normal for him to be looking ahead to the NHL and maybe overlook finishing his junior career? Is some of that possibly overstated due to increased scrutiny on the likely first overall pick? Of course the answer is yes to both questions but the issues are still there.
I have never stated that there is not a good argument for taking Tavares first overall. That statement would be ludicrous though your own argument to that end would actually be stronger if you weren't trying to overstate things in your favor and dismiss those against you.
What I've stated is that it is about as ludicrous to suggest that there is no argument for taking Hedman first overall.

As to the whimp allegations... can you seriously name a European defenseman from any point in history who was considered a big hitter before joining the NHL? They don't play that way over there. Plenty of them have learned to hit after coming here.

Pretty much every scout out there has said that both of these guys are can't miss franchise players. I just feel that Tavares is worth more at the box office and Hedman is worth more on the ice.
BrkmB

Raleigh, NC

#113 May 20, 2009
If there is any possibility to get Duchene and Hedman without giving up their best young players they have to do it. Duchene is an amazing playmaker and a blur on skates. With one pick I'd take Tavares for the tickets/scoring combo. But if they have 2 picks come on - I mean to get 2 young guys both projected to be among the best is a no-brainer.
raul17

Passaic, NJ

#114 May 20, 2009
steve wrote:
Bill, if you are in fact an Islanders fan your are absolutely clueluess and wasting your time posting comments. How can you honestly say that the Isles organizational weakness is defense? We have one of the top 3 offensive d-men in the league. A great shut down d in witt and sutton, meyer, martinek, hillen, gervais plus we just drafted hamonic, ness, niemi...WHO IS GOING TO SCORE GOALS???? OUR LEADING SCORER LAST YEAR WAS A DMAN!!!
Defensmen are the Isles' weak spot! Witt played very soft in last two months of the season, sutton & Meyer are coming off injuries (as well as Witt & Martinek). The last two years saw massive injuries hit the blueliners. Draft Tavares, but look for some defensive help, too!

Since: Nov 08

San Diego, CA

#115 May 22, 2009
All I know is if you're only going to have one dimension as a hockey player -- scoring goals isn't a bad one. Last time I checked, guys like Brett Hull and Luc Robitaille were pretty "one-dimensional" and all they did was combine for over 1,000 goals!
Dan

New York, NY

#116 May 22, 2009
I would not object to trading for the third pick and getting a talented player from Colorado. Does anyone want another Yashin who is slow and does not seem interested in playing defense? We need to stockpile talent. I think if we got someone like liles our defensemen would be very very good. Streit, Liles, Witt, Sutton, Martinek, Gervais (with meyer in the mix) would be excellent. We would also be getting a good all-around center. Then as pointblank says use the 26th pick for some winger scoring.
Joshua

Houston, TX

#118 May 24, 2009
Matt wrote:
Liles? Logan I am absolutley shocked you would create such a ridiculous trade scenario. Very unusual coming from you. That would be a joke trade and we would OFFICIALLY be the laughing stock oh the NHL. Wait a minute, we already are. Hopefully Snow has more brains then that. Why do you insist on using the Redline report as a reference? It is a joke and you seem to be the only one taking it seriously? Why? Also, why is it that we can't just pick the consensus #1 pick JT. Why don't you reference ISS the REAL scouting service Logan? Taveras is #1 stop with the nonsense, any other option is dissappointment and frustration for most Isles fans. After that they can move to KC. I'll help them pack their bags and kick'em in the **** on the way out! See ya!!!
Redline is a private company that does scouting and is the number one go to for several GMs. I think you need to do a little bit more reading boss. Garth has always loved character and Gordon wants someone who works hard and is willing to learn his system. Neither one of those sound like Tavares. It is possible he is under scrutiny lately, but one of the guys at readline stated Tavares had a sense of "entitlement". I would not be upset if they traded down for duchenes or drafter hedman first. Not that big of a deal in my book. It's gonna take another couple years to build with youth anyway.
Joshua

Houston, TX

#119 May 24, 2009
Matt wrote:
<quoted text>How do you know we already didn't make any horrible moves? Filatov scored more than half of Bailey's goal total in 7 games to Bailey's 56. Well see? Snow I feel crapped the bed on draft day and went for quantity instead of quality which you will all see this year. Filatov will be a star, even on the Blue Jackets with Hitchcock.
Also, most scouts say that Hedman still has upside while Tavares has pretty much peaked. If they are both in the draft but Hedman is still considered to improve, then geez, it seems like a no brainer to me. They are both highly regarded and almost equal in ratings, but Hedman far surpasses that because of an upside. Islanders did not get it together until Potvin came in. If Hedman turns into a Brian Leetch, i'm willing to take that chance dude!
Joshua

Houston, TX

#120 May 24, 2009
Matt wrote:
<quoted text>Kyle Woodleif is a moron. Every write up of his service from here to Toronto has panned his description of Taveras as trying to grab headlines. It was me that criticized him and his "service". I'm not the only one as Mcquire, tsn, and Adam Protaeu did as well. He always seems to pick the unpopular choice thinking its going to get him noticed. Guess what? It worked again, shocker! As far as watching Taveras play I've seen him play once in person and watched the entire WJC as well as a couple televised games when I was in Toronto for a tournament so you can shove that notion. Duschene is not a franchise player only you and your pal think so. The rest of the hockey public realizes he scored 25 less goals than Taveras and did not play against the opposing teams best defensive pairing or checking line like Taveras did. He was a second line player, who cares if he is a nice guy? We are not picking him not even Snow is that stupid. You need to get a clue. If your pal Kyle had so much hockey knowledge maybe he would not have gotten fired from the Preds for making unorthodox decisions and them not working out. By the way, why is one of his "high character" players still playing in Russia after bailing on the team while still under contract? Ponder that one for a while.
Sorry to call you out again Matt, but if Duchenes is not a Franchise player, than why is he being compared to Joe Sakic or Steve Yzerman? Were they not franchise players? Kind of a disturbing idea if you ask me. I would not choose him #1, but if there is a decent deal i would trade down for him.

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