Honduras: Eyewitness report on violen...

Honduras: Eyewitness report on violent police crackdown

There are 31 comments on the Green Left Weekly story from Aug 21, 2009, titled Honduras: Eyewitness report on violent police crackdown. In it, Green Left Weekly reports that:

The protest was against the coup government, which overthrew the democratically elected government of President Manuel Zelaya on June 28.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Green Left Weekly.

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LouC

Urbandale, IA

#1 Aug 21, 2009
I realize that the Melista protesters carry sticks, brick, rocks, blatantly attack police trying to keep protest peacful and prevent people from going to work with road blocks. Come on! In th USA they would be arrested, tear gased and beaten also to dispurse them, especially if they damage property. Why would Honduras's (un-peacful) Melistas protesters any different from any other country to have human rights activists come to thier aid. What about all the peace loving Honduran citizens that are being hurt finacially and physically by these Melistas? Where are thier human rights? Melistas deserve what get for leaving destruction and misery in every path they travel.
John Roberts

United States

#2 Aug 21, 2009
LouC wrote:
I realize that the Melista protesters carry sticks, brick, rocks, blatantly attack police trying to keep protest peacful and prevent people from going to work with road blocks. Come on! In th USA they would be arrested, tear gased and beaten also to dispurse them, especially if they damage property. Why would Honduras's (un-peacful) Melistas protesters any different from any other country to have human rights activists come to thier aid. What about all the peace loving Honduran citizens that are being hurt finacially and physically by these Melistas? Where are thier human rights? Melistas deserve what get for leaving destruction and misery in every path they travel.
Well, Amnesty International is alleging widespread abuse of protesters in Honduras but, you have to realize that they live in a dream world.

What is the reality of "peaceful" protesters throwing fire bombs, rocks, vandalizing businesses, defacing public buildings with graffiti?

Should the police/army just stand by and allow this? Absolutely not!

You don't hear Amnesty International condemning violence on the part of protestors, do you?

In the case of this delegation led by Venezuela, does anyone wonder if their report will be objective?

Get a grip......!!!

Since: Apr 08

Dallas, Texas

#3 Aug 21, 2009
See the problem is communists could cry foul before because there wasn´t quite the photographic evidence that there is today and they could manipulate it to their satisfaction...sort of like saying Honduras was committing extrajudicial killings against babies..but the babies they were talking about were 18-24 year old gang members of the terrorist MS 13 gang and the 18 gang...the same ones that shot up a bus of 28 innocent men, women, and children just outside of San Pedro Sula.
I want to see details of their report and dates..because my bet is that I can throw a very big stick of dynamite into their claims by providing the proof of what happened with pictures and videos.
JohnnyBoy

Carol Stream, IL

#4 Aug 21, 2009
The thing about violence that people don't get is that most people want to force it into a moral model. The general idea is that nice people don't hurt you and so the people who do hurt you are mean, and hence, immoral. The problem with this moral model for violence is that often violent methods are driven by circumstance.
I suspect that Honduran cops are normally quicker to use force than American cops, but in the current situation it really doesn't matter because circumstance would force more aggressive methods on them anyway.
Order in most societies is kept because most people are orderly. When unlawful conduct becomes commonplace, the cops have to become violent quicker because it saves on police resources. To do otherwise would be to surrender control of society to the mob, something that no doubt the Zelayaistas would like to happen.

Since: Apr 08

Dallas, Texas

#5 Aug 21, 2009
Yes, if people behave here they don´t get arrested or attacked by the police. They might accidently be arrested if they are in the wrong place at the wrong time but then they are cleared and released if they had nothing to do with what caused them to be arrested..police are frustrated and I understand. They arrest people and then the judge releases them because they get paid a bribe..the people get frustrated too. Who can blame them? Then Amnesty International screams foul about extrajudicial killings without looking at why it happens.

I will give you a very intimate example...and I haven´t talked about this except to a very few people. Last year one of my neighbors who is 16 now and was 15 at the time walked outside her house at 8 am to put out the trash and was shot in the head by two theives who were in the process of robbing a man on the corner. They shot her and were going to shoot her again so I shot one of them and while I didn´t kill him I shot again and they ran..she lived because of my actions and the police arrested these two and one was clearly suffering from a gun shot wound to the side that they matched to my 9mm Tauras. The judge released them saying there wasn´t enough evidence even though the bullet from my gun matched the one in this delinquents side...can you believe that? Even though they were found with the cell phone they robbed a man of and nearly killed a 15 year old girl over. Well two days after their release they ended up dead. I didn´t know they had been released but I suspect her family took care of it themselves. This type of injustice is exactly what occurs in Honduras and what causes extrajudicial killings. I don´t waste a minute feeling sorry for them..I feel sorry that I didn´t aim better the first time so that someone else didn´t have to get involved.
Noem

United States

#6 Aug 21, 2009
Yep- it is funney how the melistas are being such a good boys and girls while this Human Rights group is VISITINGGGGGGGG Honduras. If this visitors are smarth people (which I doubt) then they will se and say: Hum, Hum what is going on here. This melistas are pretty smart hipocrits.
This people should be sent to an island just like the one in france. or alcatraz with only one way ticket and to have the honable company of the mel Zelaya . This people are the cancer, the flu, the incurable desease so cantageos that should be incapsulated so that many good citizens of honduras will survive this infestation..

It is indeed very sad that about 6-7 latin american countries are puting petro$$ and narco money before people and country. Honduras aloghugh little in size it is a GIANT. And I really hope it will be saved from harm and from mel zelaya that at this point all he is looking for is vengence. Money is one of his least problems. It is his ego. It is to see that about 90 or 95% of Hondurian don't give a damm about him. Honduras go forward don't look back. Freedom before communism. VIVA LA DEMOCRACIA AND VIVA MICHELETTI
tquinnmikelson

Durango, CO

#7 Aug 21, 2009
The nine year old that was butcherd withe the machets,before I could get down the street,we cuaght the three,and the cops came and got them,they were let out in two days,well tne next they were found in the river,didnt have to pay for them in prison
Summermoondancer wrote:
Yes, if people behave here they don´t get arrested or attacked by the police. They might accidently be arrested if they are in the wrong place at the wrong time but then they are cleared and released if they had nothing to do with what caused them to be arrested..police are frustrated and I understand. They arrest people and then the judge releases them because they get paid a bribe..the people get frustrated too. Who can blame them? Then Amnesty International screams foul about extrajudicial killings without looking at why it happens.
I will give you a very intimate example...and I haven´t talked about this except to a very few people. Last year one of my neighbors who is 16 now and was 15 at the time walked outside her house at 8 am to put out the trash and was shot in the head by two theives who were in the process of robbing a man on the corner. They shot her and were going to shoot her again so I shot one of them and while I didn´t kill him I shot again and they ran..she lived because of my actions and the police arrested these two and one was clearly suffering from a gun shot wound to the side that they matched to my 9mm Tauras. The judge released them saying there wasn´t enough evidence even though the bullet from my gun matched the one in this delinquents side...can you believe that? Even though they were found with the cell phone they robbed a man of and nearly killed a 15 year old girl over. Well two days after their release they ended up dead. I didn´t know they had been released but I suspect her family took care of it themselves. This type of injustice is exactly what occurs in Honduras and what causes extrajudicial killings. I don´t waste a minute feeling sorry for them..I feel sorry that I didn´t aim better the first time so that someone else didn´t have to get involved.

Since: Apr 08

Dallas, Texas

#8 Aug 21, 2009
Yeah it sort of works out that way and to a point keeps violence at a minimum because we take care of ourselves here..9-1-1 is a fantasy in Honduras..here it is called 199 but no one ever comes when you call it.
Noem

United States

#9 Aug 21, 2009
I must give it to Micheletti-- This man has shown the world what a good leader should do en case of defending people, country and the constitutiion of Honduras. I wish other man will take his example and maybe this would be a better one. And let us not leave behind the Army and the police. They are all truly great heroes and will go down in history as the president and his army who saved a country from communism if honduras had not sent mel to COsta rica, and instead will have put him in jail in honduras this in turn would have caused a catastrophy. Hundreds of people would have been killed. If this was a coup, so be it. Now here it comes this expresident, still not satisfy from being removed because of corruption, trying to probably cause a war between civilians and the policy and the army by ordering; not asking the melistas and infiltrators to stop the elections at any cause . Sometimes I ask myself: how is possible that communist leader can survive for many years? they hold their post until they drop dead. Do they have a deal with the devil?
John Roberts

United States

#10 Aug 21, 2009
tquinnmikelson wrote:
The nine year old that was butcherd withe the machets,before I could get down the street,we cuaght the three,and the cops came and got them,they were let out in two days,well tne next they were found in the river,didnt have to pay for them in prison<quoted text>
One the one hand, I could say that I recommend that the Honduran people's response might be the better one, since apparently the courts are corrupt, and eventually the people see that justice is carried out.

On the other hand, for many years now, in the US, the government has tried to tell us that we don't have the right to defend ourselves, don't resist, just let the authorities take care of it.

It's all BS, and for all their errors, the Bush administration gave new life to a man's right to defend himself, his family, his home, and his property.

In several of the recent town hall meetings, citizens came to the rally with their weapons strapped on their bodies.

There is a BIG brouhaha in the news about this, and while some of these people went overboard for a political statement, if they are licensed, they have every right to do this.

Since: Apr 08

Dallas, Texas

#11 Aug 21, 2009
The right to self defense is described as a human right in the Honduran constitution.
John Roberts

United States

#12 Aug 21, 2009
Summermoondancer wrote:
The right to self defense is described as a human right in the Honduran constitution.
The left wing in the US has been chipping away at our second amendment rights for decades but, as I said, in the Bush administration, the Supreme Court clearly ruled that the individual has the right to keep, and bear arms.

It's the bearing that many people can't swallow, although I will say that the guy who showed up at the town hall meeting with and AK57 strapped to his side is a little hard to understand.

Was it legal? Yes, assuming that he wasn't a criminal and had the right to own it, and it was "open carry".

I'm sure that you know, if the American public felt that the courts had failed, and the public took care of the situation, most likely those people would be prosecuted more harshly than the criminal would have been treated.
A human

San Pedro Sula, Honduras

#13 Aug 21, 2009
I Thing all of you can`t say nothing because you just thing and your money, you don`t iven thing all the pain and all the corruption that did micheletti and also that is why we fight for our childrens, and their future, we want a better future and it can be just fighting for it. so please shot in your mouth when you think of questioning the the actions of these people.

Since: Apr 08

Dallas, Texas

#14 Aug 21, 2009
A Human, what corruption that Micheletti did? Give details you say and alledge but have shown nothing more than accusations. My money? hmm..I live in a middle class neighborhood.
You fight for children? Really! So that is why you are refusing them an education? I don´t have to shut my mouth I LIVE in Honduras and my son goes to a PUBLIC school here and I find it quite disgusting that you think it is rich vs poor and that you are somehow protecting the children when you threaten them, teachers, parents, and even put rottweilers in front of the schools to prevent them from being accessed in order to educate children. People like that deserve to be in prison and certainly do not deserve to be teachers.
tquinnmikelson

Durango, CO

#15 Aug 21, 2009
Sorry almoust fell of the pot when I read your return,stay safe Quinn I know what am I looking at the computer when I'm on the Pot?better than the paper..
Summermoondancer wrote:
Yeah it sort of works out that way and to a point keeps violence at a minimum because we take care of ourselves here..9-1-1 is a fantasy in Honduras..here it is called 199 but no one ever comes when you call it.
louc

Mason City, IA

#16 Aug 21, 2009
John Roberts wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, Amnesty International is alleging widespread abuse of protesters in Honduras but, you have to realize that they live in a dream world.
What is the reality of "peaceful" protesters throwing fire bombs, rocks, vandalizing businesses, defacing public buildings with graffiti?
Should the police/army just stand by and allow this? Absolutely not!
You don't hear Amnesty International condemning violence on the part of protesters, do you?
In the case of this delegation led by Venezuela, does anyone wonder if their report will be objective?
Get a grip......!!!
Before I respond with the facts, please let me know if you are aware of more than one group (Zelaya's protesters) doing violent, or destructive, or any protesting in the streets.

Also, what part are you referring to in saying "Get a grip?" I would like to respond with the facts to help everyone understand. I have family on the fence, and on both sides of the fence on this one. I also have the ones that are staying in until they feel it is safe to go out of their homes.
louc

Mason City, IA

#17 Aug 21, 2009
Summermoondancer wrote:
A Human, what corruption that Micheletti did? Give details you say and alledge but have shown nothing more than accusations. My money? hmm..I live in a middle class neighborhood.
You fight for children? Really! So that is why you are refusing them an education? I don´t have to shut my mouth I LIVE in Honduras and my son goes to a PUBLIC school here and I find it quite disgusting that you think it is rich vs poor and that you are somehow protecting the children when you threaten them, teachers, parents, and even put rottweilers in front of the schools to prevent them from being accessed in order to educate children. People like that deserve to be in prison and certainly do not deserve to be teachers.
I'm with you summermoon. The teachers have their own agenda on this one. Money over children's education? The teachers union had a strike every other day when Mel was in power and as a matter of fact he never paid the raises he promised them. He actually never paid them at all! The current interim government paid them when Mel did not. They still are striking. I will admit that the teachers union leaders are probably getting their pockets lined with some money by Mel supporters. Any way the children suffer with out an education in the meantime.

Since: Apr 08

Dallas, Texas

#18 Aug 22, 2009
Not to mention they are violating the UN Charter on Children´s rights article 28 and 29.
SEE the UNICEF website and you can read the charter there. I am in process of lodging a formal complaint and am trying to organize parents of children in public schools here to sign onto the complaint with me...in groups we have a louder voice.
JohnnyBoy

San Antonio, TX

#19 Aug 22, 2009
I suppose with all the other stuff going on Micheletti doesn't want yet another struggle, but it is too bad he can't just dump the teachers union. Given how much they are on strike, I would think the students would make as much progress if taught by amateurs. I don't know, give out redeemable vouchers or something and just let people organize their own class rooms.
John Roberts

United States

#20 Aug 22, 2009
JohnnyBoy wrote:
I suppose with all the other stuff going on Micheletti doesn't want yet another struggle, but it is too bad he can't just dump the teachers union. Given how much they are on strike, I would think the students would make as much progress if taught by amateurs. I don't know, give out redeemable vouchers or something and just let people organize their own class rooms.
I understood that this was only in the cities but, my godson's school has only been having classes three days a week and he far away from the big cities.

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