German Group Files Claims Against Poland

There are 20 comments on the The Associated Press story from Dec 15, 2006, titled German Group Files Claims Against Poland . In it, The Associated Press reports that:

A group of Germans kicked out of Poland after World War II want restitution for lost property, arguing in a complaint that their human rights were violated when Eastern Europe's boundaries were redrawn and they ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Associated Press.

Veracity

Maryland, Nigeria

#893 Dec 8, 2009
William wrote:
Abe my friend, I do hope that to be the case.
These people ask rhetorical questions and fight for the thrill and entertainment of the struggle, not to prove one pt. or another.
Just look at some of the kook stuff they cook up.
Stuff that's gone contrary to what I've heard from JEWISH historians who don't really like Germans. That's why I don't buy it.
I know a guy online who's an ok person but he's one of these Art Bell Coast-2-Coast AM yahoos who says that perpetual motion machines exist and that most of modern chemistry and physics is all wrong.
After asking a physics grad student who lives near me the question, he laughed and reminded me that these people are what they call cranks -- they *sound* like they know what they're talking about but in reality they have very little knowledge of the academic data.
I can't debate these people because I'm not a history major but I get my data from history documenataries here, and I doubt they would make up stuff for political reasons like Peter claims.
I guess you are right, we are all Americans in a sense. Rammstein's pretty good. Although metal never really was my thing.:)
I think so many people just need to wake up and realize that's it 2009, not 1959.
These people are stuck in the past. If they would only realize their present lot in life, they might just be able to do something positive about it.
Godspeed in all that you do.
- William.
Nice Post Willy
Veracity

Maryland, Nigeria

#894 Dec 8, 2009
Abe wrote:
<quoted text>
Well Willy,
I do see where you're coming from but I also see where Peter is coming from.
I will say in fairness to Poland there are indeed misconceptions, exaggerations and even lies that have been told about Poland after WWII that basically took on a BIG LIE type dynamic that even well meaning people see as Gospel truth. For example the story of "Polish calvary charging German tanks" has been debunked by Non-Poles as being a myth. Yet growing up that's what they would say on TV (not so much anymore) about Poland.
Or one of the biggest myths being debunked now by NON-Poles is that the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact was JUST a non-aggression pact between Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia.
Again growing up that's what I heard about that, but now when you watch new shows such as "Beyond Closed Doors" or the "Soviet Story" its well documented that the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact between Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia went WAAAAAAY beyond a neutrality pact and that these nations were good pals with Russia giving Nazi Germans literally millions of tons of war aid. A piece of history that Russia wants to ignore today. In fact Russia is implementing a law today forbidding the questioning of its WWII actions including its alliance with Nazi Germany.
In fairness to the Germans of today, if we are going to condemn Germany for the Holocaust and horrible things, WHY not also condemn how much Soviet Russia enabled Nazi Germany? According to the movie "The Soviet Story" SOME OF the anti-Polish and anti-Jewish tactics of the Nazis was LEARNED FROM the Soviets. Why don't we hear more about that today?
"Soviet Story" Review in Economist
http://www.economist.com/opinion/displayStory...
In a way Poles and Germans have something in common. There has been propaganda written about both of them after WWII.
Not everything reported about Poles has been accurate or in the right context and not everything reported about Germans has been accurate or in the right context.
Well thought through and accurate Abe
Kubek

Wroclaw, Poland

#895 Dec 8, 2009
Famulus01 wrote:
<quoted text>(...)As far as I know, after WWI, an overwhelming majority of local residents voted in a popular plebiscite to remain with Germany.(...)
The whole of East Prussia (with KO) was originally to be given to Poland in Versailles but the decision was eventually changed because of British PM’s veto - by the way, the land was originally to share same fate yet again after the WW2 (KO to be given to Poland by 1951) too but Stalin changed his mind and kept KO for himself. Instead, the plebiscite in Powisle, Warmia i Mazury was ordered and yeah, it was a disaster from our point of view. About 476.000 votes casted of which only 16.000 were pro-Poland (interestingly, the Olsztyn area scored most pro-Poland votes percentage-wise). Complete defeat. We lost in many areas where we shouldn't have lost because of their Polish majority. All in all, of 2097 municipalities ("gminy", "Gemeinden") only 17 were for joining Poland - eventually only 8 of them were joined (I am not knowledgeable as to why the remaining 9 didn't). But there was more to plebiscite than shere numbers:
It took place in the hottest stage of the Polish-Soviet war when Poland’s fate seemed to be doomed – Polish armies were retreating before Soviet armies and the days of independent Poland seemed to be numbered. Imagine the effect it had on the voting people, plus the fact that we (Poland) weren't able to pay the plebiscite enough attention (I mean we couldn't support the case as we would've liked it).
The only ruling body in the area of question was a special international comitee by League of Nations (it was Brits and Italians mostly). However, they let German police and German paramilitary units stay and those two played their dark role in the events. They kept threatening and terrorising the people and even few murders occured (the most known one was that of local Polish national activist Bogumil Linka).
Also, about 150.000 Germans (mostly from Ruhrgebiet) were brought by Germans to East Prussia to help their chances in the plebiscite. Those were people born in EP who emmigrated to western Germany ("Ostflucht"), specially brought there to vote.
The international comitee turned a blind eye to all that as they thought that weakening Germany in any way would increase communism threat in that country. They even made a terrible mistake of messing up the voting cards - the question put in it was if people wanted to join Poland or remain with East Prussia(!), whereas it should've read Germany, not EP.
Abe

Putnam Valley, NY

#896 Dec 8, 2009
Veracity wrote:
<quoted text>
Well thought through and accurate Abe
Thanks Veracity.
Kubek

Wroclaw, Poland

#897 Dec 8, 2009
Famulus01 wrote:
<quoted text>(...)The other issue is the "who came first" debate which is going on all over East/Central Europe. One could rightly argue that the current borders of Poland are mostly identical to what used to be about a 1000 years ago. However, even before any Slavs entered the territory from their ancient homeland in today's Belarus, the area was populated by Germanic people (Goths, mostly). So, I believe, we should lay our border disputes to rest and enjoy the travel freedoms we have...
There are two main theories on our (Polish) ethnogenesis. The one You mention is the allochtonistic one, according to which we were supposed to have come here around 6th century from areas that are parts of Ukraine and Belarus nowadays. It was brought forth by Germanic circles and until not that long ago was taken for granted (still is, to some extent) with both people of science and regular people (also, it was used for political reasons). However, the (rapid) development and useage of scientific disciplines such as antropology, genetics, archeology and linguistics proved that the allochtonistic theory can be swept under the rug now, the theory doesn't withstand facts at all. On the other hand, the research have shown that we have been here (around Wisla and Odra, so called "Odrowisle" area) rivers at least for 2500 years - that's the autochtonistic theory.
Now, if the Goths (or any other Germanic tribe for that matter), who just marched through this territory south-east to the Black Sea steppes, felt like staying here and starting a state, chances were the place would be now called „Gothland” and not Poland. But they hadn’t - problem solved.
Abe

Putnam Valley, NY

#898 Dec 8, 2009
Kubek wrote:
<quoted text>
There are two main theories on our (Polish) ethnogenesis. The one You mention is the allochtonistic one, according to which we were supposed to have come here around 6th century from areas that are parts of Ukraine and Belarus nowadays. It was brought forth by Germanic circles and until not that long ago was taken for granted (still is, to some extent) with both people of science and regular people (also, it was used for political reasons). However, the (rapid) development and useage of scientific disciplines such as antropology, genetics, archeology and linguistics proved that the allochtonistic theory can be swept under the rug now, the theory doesn't withstand facts at all. On the other hand, the research have shown that we have been here (around Wisla and Odra, so called "Odrowisle" area) rivers at least for 2500 years - that's the autochtonistic theory.
Now, if the Goths (or any other Germanic tribe for that matter), who just marched through this territory south-east to the Black Sea steppes, felt like staying here and starting a state, chances were the place would be now called „Gothland” and not Poland. But they hadn’t - problem solved.
In the BC years the Germanics were still in the Denmark/Northern Germany/Northern France area while Slavs were already in Central/Eastern Europe.

“Safe pair of hands”

Since: Nov 08

where the trouble is

#899 Dec 9, 2009
When do you polaks expect to return those stolen lands to Germany ?
Abe

Putnam Valley, NY

#900 Dec 9, 2009
pesky the real retarded Russian wrote:
When do you polaks expect to return those stolen lands to Germany ?
When do you think you will stop being a Russian Retard?

When will Russia return all that it stole from Germany and other countries?
Kubek

Wroclaw, Poland

#901 Dec 9, 2009
pesky the real deal wrote:
When do you polaks expect to return those stolen lands to Germany ?
There's no such question as nothing's been stolen.
But while we're at it, Háborgató kaku, when are you going to give back bits of Orawa and Spisz that you stole?
PolAmek

Murrells Inlet, SC

#903 Jun 4, 2011
Czy cos nowego jest / dzieje sie w 2011?
Kubek

Garwolin, Poland

#904 Jun 5, 2011
PolAmek wrote:
Czy cos nowego jest / dzieje sie w 2011?
Niestety, w tej sprawie nic takiego pozytywnego z naszego polskiego punktu widzenia nie przydarzy&#322;o si&#281; w tym roku. Niemcy dalej bezczelnie robia swoje, a "polski" rzad, czy w ogole "polscy" politycy, na to nic. Innych panstw czy organizacji to nie zajmuje - chociaz, nie, nie wiem jak to jest z Czechami, jak oni sobie z tymi gnojkami radza. Sytuacja jest bardzo zla.
poland

Poznan, Poland

#905 Jun 5, 2011
robert sewell wrote:
waht right are they taking about? they are not from poland and the poland govirmation find them a traitors.
http://www.dailymotion.pl/video/xeav0h_sabato...
poland

Poznan, Poland

#906 Jun 5, 2011
olumide

Berlin, Germany

#907 Aug 17, 2011
How?
olumide

Berlin, Germany

#908 Aug 17, 2011
Vic

Vetschau, Germany

#909 Aug 17, 2011
A Kraut wrote:
It's not necessary....Germans can soon buy land back...legally!:):):)
It is better to work in own land honestly and do not think about robbing or conquering or taking over territories of another nations - because it is not moral and it has always bad end ( not make such things that it will be more kicked out - it was worked out constantly and some consequences from faults should be drawn )
Vic

Vetschau, Germany

#910 Aug 17, 2011
Glenn wrote:
Jesus, what an experience, getting blasted by German revanchism AND Polish anti-Semitism at the same time! Seriously, Germany and Poland need to work together: Poland needs to wean Germany from its overwhelming adolescent infatuation with France and all things French,and Germany needs to work with Poland to stabilize the situation in the East, and welcome Ukraine in, before the Russians pour back in...
Maybe it is better for Ukraine to work with Russia. They should create stable system too- Russia, China, Iran, Ukraine, Belarus, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Iraq.
Vic

Vetschau, Germany

#911 Aug 17, 2011
GAZDA wrote:
<quoted text>
thats correct, but 1st they were germanic people not germans
2nd they just went further to the south or west against rome, and left uninhabited lands, which was filled with slavic tribes, in prussia there lived the prussians a baltic tribe, not slavic. after that germans came with the sword...
of cause everyone has the right to reclaim his own private property, but germany or any other country has no right to claim the whole lands, because it was once within german empire... just like poles have no right to claim territory in the east...
Naturally that Germany consists of very ethnical tribes and how offsprings of germanic tribes live in Germany is not clear. Germanic trib left language for Germany. But present Germany consist of many ethnical populations. There are Germans, Slavs, Turks, post Romanian population- for instance South and West Germany. Real germanic tribes live presently in Scandinavia for instance in Sweden and they have real German language and looking at their history in comparison to imperialistic and criminal history of Germany or britain- Sweden is peaceful nation- then wars of usa, britain, germany cannot be explained by germanic ethnicity. People in Sweden are real german and they are PEACEFUL. It must be another factors, which are reason of moral degeneration, rascism, desgard for another nations, greediness etc.

Since: Dec 10

Warsaw, Poland

#912 Aug 18, 2011
The decision to expell German Krauts from Polakia was not taken by Polaks. It was taken by Russkies, Yanks and Anglos at Potsdam Conference. There is no point raising claims such as these against poor, backward and dirty Polakia.

Wording of the actual Potsdam Agreement:

Orderly transfer of German populations
The Three Governments, having considered the question in all its aspects, recognize that the transfer to Germany of German populations, or elements thereof, remaining in Poland, Czechoslovakia and Hungary, will have to be undertaken. They agree that any transfers that take place should be effected in an orderly and humane manner.
Brunkeberg

Niagara Falls, Canada

#915 Jun 23, 2012
Abe wrote:
<quoted text>
I read that dumb GERMan explanation of where the word GERMan came from and it fails to talk about the word GERM just GER. Where did the GERM part come from?? Are GERMans GERM-like? As many of my English Friends always say.
They mention GERMan names like GER this and GER that. Why do these GERMan names always sound so stupid? They sound like caveman grunts.
GER - HARD sounds like GER has a hard on. GERMan names like FRITZ and SCHMIDT sound (and usually rhyme with) the word SH-T. These GERMan names sound so dumb and neanderthal like.
Simple history lesson for you, your an idiot, take a look at the English monarchy and they are German! the last name Hanover was the original last name used by the Royal Family, Hence the reason England and Prussia often were allied in international affairs. Let's see the King or Duchy of Prussia was Fredrick the 3rd once he was king of Prussia he became Frederick the 1st. Furthermore his brother was King George whom was King of England, and part of the hohenzollern dynasty.
In other words you take a good look at history and a vast majority of the Northern peoples of Europe like England etc.. you will find that the people have Germanic family roots whether they like it or not. So if they were trying to be harsh by saying that they're fools.

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