Swine Flu Vaccine: Is It Ethical to S...

Swine Flu Vaccine: Is It Ethical to Say No?

There are 190 comments on the ABC News story from Oct 10, 2009, titled Swine Flu Vaccine: Is It Ethical to Say No?. In it, ABC News reports that:

That is perhaps the primary ethical question at the heart of the controversy surrounding the government's swine flu vaccination campaign, and the answer is deeply contested by those on both sides of the issue.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at ABC News.

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wack my willie

Paola, KS

#1 Oct 10, 2009
It is your health and if you have kids it is choice as to how to handle this decision, as for my wife and myself, we have never used the flu vaccine and we don't plan on getting the vaccine for the HINI flu. We have enough government in every facet of our life, I think they need to leave this one alone.
Frank

Bellevue, WA

#2 Oct 10, 2009
Since there is not enough vaccination for 100% of the population, it is proper etiquette for some people to pass to allow others a chance to get a shot. I took the swine flu shot in the 70's and became extremely ill. I have no idea what the side effects are for this one,but thirty years ago many people died after receiving the swine flu vaccination. I asked a doctor about effects of introducing the swine flu into the human body,he told me that nothing is introduced into the system. He told me that the new vaccinations don't work the same way as in the past. I have seen several doctors on television that have stated that this vaccination works the same as vaccinations from the past. My children prefer not to get the influenza vaccine because the flu usually lasts only a few days,and side effects from the vaccination could also last a few days.
Frank

Bellevue, WA

#3 Oct 10, 2009
wack my willie wrote:
It is your health and if you have kids it is choice as to how to handle this decision, as for my wife and myself, we have never used the flu vaccine and we don't plan on getting the vaccine for the HINI flu. We have enough government in every facet of our life, I think they need to leave this one alone.
The ethical question would be whether getting the shot or not could cause others to be subjected to influenza. The government could say that the vaccine is not as effective if everyone doesn't take it. This would be the same argument as if to say everyone in the country must have government controlled health insurance or the health insurance reform doesn't work. The same argument that I remember from the 60's when they said that communism only works if the entire world is communist. These are all incorrect assumptions. Every one in the world is not going to have the flu vaccine. Every one is not going to have the exact health insurance plan. Everyone in the world is not going to play by the same set of rules as the extreme communist.

“Open your eyes, people”

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#4 Oct 10, 2009
I think the more approriate questions would be: Is it STUPID to say YES to a Vaccine that has been RUSHED to market.

“Don't Tread On Me”

Since: Jul 09

Columbus

#5 Oct 10, 2009
Exactly. Personally, I find it alittle to risky to try something that has been made so fast, so rushed. I've heard many rumors. Even heard it has mercury in it. And although those are just rumors, I still would rather not take the chance.

Cpetr13

“Reality is better than truth”

Since: Jun 07

Indianapolis

#6 Oct 10, 2009
I am not concerned about the vaccine itself in terms of safety and production. But I will no0t be getting the vaccine because I have had bad reactions to flu vaccines in the past; the effects were much worse than when I actually got the flu. Having already been hospitalized for pneumonia once, I'll rely on my immune system rather than provoke something that could be far worse for me.

I think children who have reacted favorably to flu vaccines in the past should get it, and even young adults; they seem to be hit the hardest by it. But this is not an ethical issue--nobody is required to take medications in order to allay a possible threat to others.

“It's 420 here.”

Since: Jun 07

cold comfort farm

#7 Oct 10, 2009
Personally, I choose to use some radical Chinese herbals...if I get the flu. But, the bigger questions are: what guarantee is there with something rushed to market, and two, the manufacturers have already been granted immunity from liability if the vaccine does harm to the patient. Given that scenario, why would one want to roll the dice?
BlackHeart

Redding, CA

#8 Oct 10, 2009
You don't need the vaccine if you've already had 'swine flu'. didja know that obama and his cronies changed the name of it because it was/is associated with Illegal aliens? barry wants to give them amnesty and the fact that they were responsible for this Huge outbreak throws a monkey wrench in his plan.
barry obama is an Idiot. If you don't believe me, watch what happens when his precious teleprompter breaks down. he turns into gw bush right in front of your eyes.
I wonder what their excuse will be when the vaccine kills twenty percent of the population that gets the shot?

“Ron Paul is my president”

Since: Sep 09

Hometown USA

#9 Oct 10, 2009
the federal government consists of 545 people that cannot balance a checkbook. why on earth would i allow them to make any decisions in regards to my health?
Jill Whilton

Milford, MA

#10 Oct 10, 2009
Considering the recent news about how lethal this virus is to children, it's hard to justify the decision to pass on the vaccine and put more people at risk. Some schools are closing because of the high percentage of students out sick.

http://www.worldmedicalnews.org/SwineFlu/
nwgirl

Eugene, OR

#11 Oct 11, 2009
Jill Whilton wrote:
Considering the recent news about how lethal this virus is to children, it's hard to justify the decision to pass on the vaccine and put more people at risk. Some schools are closing because of the high percentage of students out sick.
http://www.worldmedicalnews.org/SwineFlu/
I agree with you i live in a college town and work close to the college campus, there has been cases in the college and surrounding public schools i suffer from severe allergies and asthma and i will be getting the shot because i don't want to get sick and be put in the hospital.

Cpetr13

“Reality is better than truth”

Since: Jun 07

Indianapolis

#12 Oct 11, 2009
Damn...you wanna squeeze in any more empty-headed GOP talking points?

The name change is due to the fact that although this strain is related to the already extant swine flu virus, it is not the same thing. Same reason we don't call a chihuahua a wolf.

There is no evidence that immigrants are responsible for the current outbreak. As for amnesty--the GOP suggested that years ago.

I've seen obama speak extemporaneously, and it's nothing at all like bush. For one thing, obama speaks english. And I have no idea what this fixation is about teleprompters; nobody seemed to mind when reagan used them religiously. Any speaker using cards, a prompter, etc, who loses that aid may falter a bit since they don't usually memorize speeches anymore. But christ, bush had teleprompters and STILL screwed up every time he opened his mouth.

No vaccine in history has a 20% fatality rate. The procedure for creating flu vaccines varies little from strain to strain; presumption that this one is going to kill a fifth of its users is pathetically paranoid.
BlackHeart wrote:
You don't need the vaccine if you've already had 'swine flu'. didja know that obama and his cronies changed the name of it because it was/is associated with Illegal aliens? barry wants to give them amnesty and the fact that they were responsible for this Huge outbreak throws a monkey wrench in his plan.
barry obama is an Idiot. If you don't believe me, watch what happens when his precious teleprompter breaks down. he turns into gw bush right in front of your eyes.
I wonder what their excuse will be when the vaccine kills twenty percent of the population that gets the shot?
Curtis Lowe

Montgomery, AL

#13 Oct 11, 2009
Let your body fight the flu. You will be stronger for it. Or dead. Either way, you will be helping to save our Mother Earth.
BlackHeart

Redding, CA

#14 Oct 11, 2009
Cpetr13 wrote:
Damn...you wanna squeeze in any more empty-headed GOP talking points?
The name change is due to the fact that although this strain is related to the already extant swine flu virus, it is not the same thing. Same reason we don't call a chihuahua a wolf.
There is no evidence that immigrants are responsible for the current outbreak. As for amnesty--the GOP suggested that years ago.
I've seen obama speak extemporaneously, and it's nothing at all like bush. For one thing, obama speaks english. And I have no idea what this fixation is about teleprompters; nobody seemed to mind when reagan used them religiously. Any speaker using cards, a prompter, etc, who loses that aid may falter a bit since they don't usually memorize speeches anymore. But christ, bush had teleprompters and STILL screwed up every time he opened his mouth.
No vaccine in history has a 20% fatality rate. The procedure for creating flu vaccines varies little from strain to strain; presumption that this one is going to kill a fifth of its users is pathetically paranoid.
<quoted text>
And if someone told you that your little god barry would spend a trillion dollars in his first month in office, you would have asked what pipe they been toking on.
this vaccine is Untested, unclear on Which strain it is Supposed to work on, and the drug industry doesn't exactly have a stellar history with what they been doing.
the government doesn't have the best minds working for them either. look at the health care 'reform'. all it does is add to the budget deficit and forces people to buy insurance.
back in the thirties, the govt. was 'experimenting' with rapid deployment from airplanes. they had the brilliant idea of flying low and having the men Jump out of the planes as they flew fifty mph. All the men suffered serious injury. same with the second try, and the third. ancient history, you say? maybe, but our government did it, all three times.
barry and his little worshippers think that the way to save the economy is to give rich people back the money they lost in the stock market crash. doesn't work.
and as far as the vaccine goes, I'm going to avoid it like the plague. besides, I've had swine flu this year.
andet1987

Schaumburg, IL

#15 Oct 11, 2009
Frank wrote:
Since there is not enough vaccination for 100% of the population, it is proper etiquette for some people to pass to allow others a chance to get a shot. I took the swine flu shot in the 70's and became extremely ill. I have no idea what the side effects are for this one,but thirty years ago many people died after receiving the swine flu vaccination. I asked a doctor about effects of introducing the swine flu into the human body,he told me that nothing is introduced into the system. He told me that the new vaccinations don't work the same way as in the past. I have seen several doctors on television that have stated that this vaccination works the same as vaccinations from the past. My children prefer not to get the influenza vaccine because the flu usually lasts only a few days,and side effects from the vaccination could also last a few days.
i will only get the regular flu vaccine, not the swine flu vaccine. thank you for the information.

Since: Apr 07

Brentwood, TN

#16 Oct 11, 2009
Each year, a new vaccine is developed that contains three different viruses (one influenza B and two influenza A strains). CDC officials select the new viruses based on which viruses were prevalent during the flu season in China and Australia the previous year. The CDC admits that the viruses selected for the new vaccine are chosen on the basis of an “educated guess.”[i]

What’s in a Flu Shot?

The influenza virus is grown in “specific pathogen-free”(SPF) eggs. Eggs are tested for a variety of agents—usually between 23 and 31—to confirm the absence of those specific pathogens. Laboratories limit the number of agents that are screened due to the shear abundance of potential viruses and/or bacteria to choose from. In addition, screening for every potential agent would be cost prohibitive.[ii] If none of the tested agents are detected, the vaccine is reported as “pathogen free.”

However, it should be understood that there is a distinct difference between “pathogen free” and “specific pathogen-free.” In its July 1996 report, the Institute of Medicine acknowledged that “although it is not possible to produce a completely uncontaminated animal, it is possible to produce an animal [or egg] certified to be free of specific pathogens.”[iii] Viruses that are harmless to their animal host, however, may be potentially harmful to humans.

During the manufacturing process, antibiotics (neomycin, polymyxin B and gentamicin) are added to eliminate stray bacteria found in the mixture. The final solution can contain the following additives in any combination: Triton X-100 (a detergent); polysorbate 80 (a potential carcinogen); gelatin; formaldehyde; and residual egg proteins. In addition, many of the influenza vaccines still contain thimerosal as a preservative. Thimerosal (mercury) is being investigated for its link to brain injury and autoimmune disease.

Notably, these microbes are not part of the flu vaccine. Unless an organism’s antigen is contained within the vaccine, there is no protection conferred by the vaccine. It is estimated that most adults will average 1-3 episodes of ILI, and most children will average 3-6 episodes. The CDC also admits that “many persons who have been vaccinated against influenza can still get the flu”
http://www.momsagainstmercury.org/mercury.htm

Ok. So the vaccines are NOT effective against the flu virus. The Vaccine does contain not just mercury but polysorbate 80 (a potential carcinogen)and formaldehyde. So not only is the vaccine ineffective against the flu virus is is potentially hazardous to our health.

Ok. So let me see if I got this right.

People are shelling out $25.00 to get a shot that does not work and if it doesn't kill them could leave them disabled for the rest of their lives.

Every year for 40 years news reports have been flooding us with articles warning that the impending flu season may be the worst in years. Every year for 40 years the government has been lying to us about the safety and the effectiveness of the vaccines. In 1918 over 40 million people died from the VACCINE.
Gag Reflex

United States

#18 Oct 11, 2009
OK, so let me see if *I* got this right:

(1) You're using momsagainstmercury.org as a credible source (nice cut-n-paste job, by the way).

(2) You're claiming that the people that died in the 1918 pandemic died from exposure to a vaccine?

(3) You're saying that the government is lying to us about vaccine safety (without any proof)?

To say that you're stretching your credibility here would be a gross understatement. I will grant you this - many news reports ARE scaring people unnecessarily about H1N1. But I used to work at the Influenza Research Center at Baylor in Houston - and I can tell you this:

(1) The vast majority of flu vaccines do NOT contain thimerosal (the mercury-containing preservative) anymore. And even if they did, the link between this and disease is still shaky at best.

(2) Polysorbate 80 (the "potential" carcinogen) is probably in most foods you eat (unless you're a hard-core vegan or something). And again, this is probably like saccharin - in order for it to cause cancer, a lab rat would probably have to take in enormous quantities of the stuff!

(3) Formaldehyde can be easily tolerated in small doses in the human body, and it, in and of itself, is not toxic. Our bodies make it into formic acid (which IS toxic in high enough doses) but this is eliminated from the body rapidly (unless you have a serious kidney disease).

(4) Despite what some crackpot website says (and there are no shortage of them), flu vaccines HAVE been shown to be quite effective, and there are TONS of data to support this fact.

Now if you don't want the vaccine, then by all means, don't get it. That's your choice - that's anyone's choice. But spreading misinformation is irresponsible. But what do I know, I'm just an agent of "the man".
andet1987

Schaumburg, IL

#20 Oct 11, 2009
Gag Reflex wrote:
OK, so let me see if *I* got this right:
(1) You're using momsagainstmercury.org as a credible source (nice cut-n-paste job, by the way).
(2) You're claiming that the people that died in the 1918 pandemic died from exposure to a vaccine?
(3) You're saying that the government is lying to us about vaccine safety (without any proof)?
To say that you're stretching your credibility here would be a gross understatement. I will grant you this - many news reports ARE scaring people unnecessarily about H1N1. But I used to work at the Influenza Research Center at Baylor in Houston - and I can tell you this:
(1) The vast majority of flu vaccines do NOT contain thimerosal (the mercury-containing preservative) anymore. And even if they did, the link between this and disease is still shaky at best.
(2) Polysorbate 80 (the "potential" carcinogen) is probably in most foods you eat (unless you're a hard-core vegan or something). And again, this is probably like saccharin - in order for it to cause cancer, a lab rat would probably have to take in enormous quantities of the stuff!
(3) Formaldehyde can be easily tolerated in small doses in the human body, and it, in and of itself, is not toxic. Our bodies make it into formic acid (which IS toxic in high enough doses) but this is eliminated from the body rapidly (unless you have a serious kidney disease).
(4) Despite what some crackpot website says (and there are no shortage of them), flu vaccines HAVE been shown to be quite effective, and there are TONS of data to support this fact.
Now if you don't want the vaccine, then by all means, don't get it. That's your choice - that's anyone's choice. But spreading misinformation is irresponsible. But what do I know, I'm just an agent of "the man".
at least he is helping us to be cautious. nobody knows yet the side effects of the swine flu vaccine.
Gag Reflex

Lombard, IL

#21 Oct 11, 2009
andet1987 wrote:
<quoted text>
at least he is helping us to be cautious. nobody knows yet the side effects of the swine flu vaccine.
Helping you be cautious? What the heck does that mean? Don't go leave your house today - you might be abducted by aliens. There - I just helped you be cautious. Hey, you never know, do you?

The likelihood that there are any side effects (other than the standard side effects associated with the flu vaccines) with the H1N1 vaccine are minimal. Sure, anything can happen, but I'm not going to purposefully make people paranoid just to prove a point.

Cpetr13

“Reality is better than truth”

Since: Jun 07

Indianapolis

#22 Oct 11, 2009
Actually, dickweed, I'm an atheist. I have no gods, on earth or anywhere else. And I said many times before he was even elected that it was going to take serious spending to get us out of the mess bush left us in. Bush was already bailing out companies; don't pretend this is a new strategy. What you whiners seem to not understand is that bailing out the automakers and banks was just ONE STEP toward recovery. Before you can make the economy better, you first have to stabilize what you have. This process is going to take years. It's triage--you stop the bleeding before any other treatment.

They know what strain it will work on. It's had the same basic testing as any other flu vaccine, all of which have been successful. Vaccines aren't difficult once you have a process in place for similar strains of the same disease. Maybe you should stop sniveling and actually do some research on the subject. BTW--one of the reasons this is being "rushed" is because people are DEMANDING it.

The government requires that you have auto insurance; do you complain bout that? And many people get their coverage from the government, or at least the state governments. Were you even aware of that?
One reason health care costs are so high is because patients can't pay their bills for needed treatment. This is the richest nation on earth; we can afford to keep people healthy, especially once we stop the drain caused by iraq and afghanistan.

What obama is trying to do is to save thousands if not hundreds of thousands of jobs from being lost, which is what would have happened if the auto makers had gone under. His tax plan will cause those rich people to pay their fair share, finally.
BlackHeart wrote:
<quoted text>
And if someone told you that your little god barry would spend a trillion dollars in his first month in office, you would have asked what pipe they been toking on.
this vaccine is Untested, unclear on Which strain it is Supposed to work on, and the drug industry doesn't exactly have a stellar history with what they been doing.
the government doesn't have the best minds working for them either. look at the health care 'reform'. all it does is add to the budget deficit and forces people to buy insurance.
back in the thirties, the govt. was 'experimenting' with rapid deployment from airplanes. they had the brilliant idea of flying low and having the men Jump out of the planes as they flew fifty mph. All the men suffered serious injury. same with the second try, and the third. ancient history, you say? maybe, but our government did it, all three times.
barry and his little worshippers think that the way to save the economy is to give rich people back the money they lost in the stock market crash. doesn't work.
and as far as the vaccine goes, I'm going to avoid it like the plague. besides, I've had swine flu this year.

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