Why sulfur and permethrin haven't mad...

Why sulfur and permethrin haven't made your itching go away

Posted in the Scabies Forum

Itchy in NJ

Princeton, NJ

#1 Sep 22, 2013
Hi everyone.

This thread isn't for you if you're getting new lesions and scabies trails that are clearly being left by scabies mites.

This thread is for people who've taken permethrin, put on sulfur, and the trails of mites are gone, but they still feel the creepy-crawlies (formication) and itches without a lot of other visible symptoms. I'm one of those people, and I was almost on the verge of calling this Morgellons or some undiagnosed disease and starting to collect lint fibers.

But then I read about demodex mites, and some of their symptoms.

I remembered the weird itches/tickles in my eyebrows and lower nose WELL before I'd ever gotten scabies. How I'd feel these weird tickles on my body sometimes after the eyebrow and nose itch started.

I remembered their onset- when I moved from downstate IL to NJ and had a number of roommates over two years.

These are all symptoms and transfer vectors for the demodex mite.

Normally, most people don't notice it and/or it doesn't bother them. But when you're recovering from scabies- and you have a hypercharged immune system and a nervous system that's on red alert for itches, tickles, and everything else- the demodex can become a real problem. My understanding is that sulfur doesn't kill them and a traditional scabies treatment with permethrin doesn't kill them either.(They also live on your face, where you don't treat with perm.).

The demodex *could* be one explanation for the itches in your scalp. And the formication on your body- scabies mites aren't supposed to give you the creepy-crawlies. They might explain why the itches persist after permethrin and sulfur treatments. And the demodex are normally pretty harmless, until your immune system wants to kill anything that looks like a mite, and your brain panics every time it might be living on you.

It might explain why some people think tea tree oil kills scabies while other people say it doesn't work and there's no clinical evidence for it. Supposedly tea tree oil is bad for the demodex.

I don't want to give anyone false hope here. If you don't remember itches and tickles in your eyebrows and your nose from BEFORE getting scabies, this is PROBABLY something else. And even if you remember formication from BEFORE scabies, this could just be neuropathy and delusional parasitosis. Also, if I suggest anything too strongly, it could create false memories.(Memories get a little more hazy when it comes to remembering sensations).

But something like half of adults have demodex mites. And if scabies sends your immune system into overdrive and your nervous system into red alert mode, the demodex could go from a harmless creature into an irritant.

So right now I have three choices:

1.) Keep going around thinking I have scabies after the lesions are gone and the doctors say I'm cured. I can get a lint box and start picking strange fibers out of my skin.
2.) Go see a shrink and get an anti-pruritic.(I'm strongly considering it- I'm willing to admit this could be psychosomatic or some sort of neuropathy if it will help get rid of the itching. And I did have OCD growing up, so I'm not afraid of shrinks).
3.) Try and figure out if (1) I have demodex mites and (2) they are the source of my itching. Anecdotal evidence seems to suggest I had symptoms of them well before I had scabies.

I will let you guys know how it goes.

-Itchy in NJ
FRED

Golden, CO

#2 Sep 22, 2013
Formication is just a name that dermatolgist put on a phenomenon they don't really understand, it doesn't really describe anything but a large group of symptoms that could be a variety of problems, so you can't really define any condition with that term.

If you want a non toxic scabies treatment then use both Anamu tincture and Chanca Piedra tincture. If you start to have a herxheimer reaction then you have more serious issues. Mite infection= bacterial infection, simple as that.

http://www.rain-tree.com/anamu.htm#.Uj84CRDQ_...

http://www.rain-tree.com/chanca.htm#.Uj84exDQ...

http://www.laboratoriosfitofarma.com/chancapi...
FRED

Golden, CO

#3 Sep 22, 2013
Here is the deal;

Everyone has behavioral issues from their childhood. When the central nervous system gets infected their are large releases of neurotoxins from those pathogens. Those neurotoxins cause people to lose their inner voice. The inner voice moderates personal behavior so when that's gone the behavior issues turn into psychiatric issues.

These days the chances of clearing a mite infection and not being left with some heavy duty bacterial infections are slim to none.

Those bacterial infections are extremely psychiatric.

This is just one of the infections but they are all psychiatric because they are intracellular and that blood services the brain.

http://www.schallermd.com/articles/bartonella...

Since: Aug 13

Location hidden

#4 Sep 22, 2013
Tea tree oil killing a demodex mite



Check out this dermatoligists other video's where he removes demodex from the eye lid...its a bit gross

lots of debris in your eye lashes are a certain sign of demodex living in your eyelid.

Since: Aug 13

Location hidden

#5 Sep 22, 2013
Itchy in NJ wrote:
Hi everyone.
This thread isn't for you if you're getting new lesions and scabies trails that are clearly being left by scabies mites.
This thread is for people who've taken permethrin, put on sulfur, and the trails of mites are gone, but they still feel the creepy-crawlies (formication) and itches without a lot of other visible symptoms. I'm one of those people, and I was almost on the verge of calling this Morgellons or some undiagnosed disease and starting to collect lint fibers.
But then I read about demodex mites, and some of their symptoms.
I remembered the weird itches/tickles in my eyebrows and lower nose WELL before I'd ever gotten scabies. How I'd feel these weird tickles on my body sometimes after the eyebrow and nose itch started.
I remembered their onset- when I moved from downstate IL to NJ and had a number of roommates over two years.
These are all symptoms and transfer vectors for the demodex mite.
Normally, most people don't notice it and/or it doesn't bother them. But when you're recovering from scabies- and you have a hypercharged immune system and a nervous system that's on red alert for itches, tickles, and everything else- the demodex can become a real problem. My understanding is that sulfur doesn't kill them and a traditional scabies treatment with permethrin doesn't kill them either.(They also live on your face, where you don't treat with perm.).
The demodex *could* be one explanation for the itches in your scalp. And the formication on your body- scabies mites aren't supposed to give you the creepy-crawlies. They might explain why the itches persist after permethrin and sulfur treatments. And the demodex are normally pretty harmless, until your immune system wants to kill anything that looks like a mite, and your brain panics every time it might be living on you.
It might explain why some people think tea tree oil kills scabies while other people say it doesn't work and there's no clinical evidence for it. Supposedly tea tree oil is bad for the demodex.
I don't want to give anyone false hope here. If you don't remember itches and tickles in your eyebrows and your nose from BEFORE getting scabies, this is PROBABLY something else. And even if you remember formication from BEFORE scabies, this could just be neuropathy and delusional parasitosis. Also, if I suggest anything too strongly, it could create false memories.(Memories get a little more hazy when it comes to remembering sensations).
But something like half of adults have demodex mites. And if scabies sends your immune system into overdrive and your nervous system into red alert mode, the demodex could go from a harmless creature into an irritant.
So right now I have three choices:
1.) Keep going around thinking I have scabies after the lesions are gone and the doctors say I'm cured. I can get a lint box and start picking strange fibers out of my skin.
2.) Go see a shrink and get an anti-pruritic.(I'm strongly considering it- I'm willing to admit this could be psychosomatic or some sort of neuropathy if it will help get rid of the itching. And I did have OCD growing up, so I'm not afraid of shrinks).
3.) Try and figure out if (1) I have demodex mites and (2) they are the source of my itching. Anecdotal evidence seems to suggest I had symptoms of them well before I had scabies.
I will let you guys know how it goes.
-Itchy in NJ
Scabies tee tree oil study

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15148100

scabies euclyptus oil study

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...

Permithrin may be responsible for your crawlies, it is very common. Stop using sulphur soap as well and moisturise your skin. You will find the crawling sensation diminish over time.

Treat yourself for demodex, takes about a week, just use tea tree shampoo and tea tree in moisturiser. It takes a few weeks but these sensations will lessen.I am saying this from experience, I can relate to what your feeling.
Vertical

Rochester, NY

#6 Nov 29, 2013
Thank you, Itchy, for your observations. I found this thread when I googled "post-scabies neuropathy." I've been treated twice by the permathrin (my spouse as well) a week apart and when I was still getting bumps that gave me a new outbreak of hives (my initial reaction to the first scabies mound) we both went to our dermatologist who gave us a compounded ointment (expensive!) of 6% sulfur and 0.1% Triamcynalone, which is a mild corticosteroid that we're applying 2x day for 3 weeks (maybe too many guns). I've wondered this: can scabies create a neuropathy that lingers after eradication--rather like shingles can? Can it so irritate your immune system that you feel itch for months afterwards? I'm getting the creepy-crawlies you describe not only in my face but all over my body now. Can the steroids you take compromise your immune system and/or boost your sensitivity to itch? Can scabies pave the way for an infestation by demodex? I DO have demodex in my eyelashes and probably on my face: it has contributed to blepheritis (infection of the eyelids) and ulcerations in my cornea that I've been treated for repeatedly, and I have rosacea. I read with horror about the people who suffer from itching and formication after scabies for half a year. I have a compromised immune system in the first place (IBS, etc.) made worse by my idiot PCP who just put me on Prednisone instead of sending me to a dermatologist. I'm thinking that scabies might cause a condition that a) sensitizes your skin to sensation b) paves the way for folliculitis caused by demodex on the body c) is aggravated by all the effing drugs you take. What to do? Whom to tell? Educate our dermatologists? I choose number 3 among your suggestions below. I'm not delusional. But new scrapings don't show any scabies on me or my spouse, and I'm still itching like crazy after 3 weeks. Also, we must deal w/ my spouse's gigantic paranoia and panic attacks and the frenetic cleaning. This is not ridiculous. Doctors need to address this.
Itchy in NJ wrote:
This thread isn't for you if you're getting new lesions and scabies trails that are clearly being left by scabies mites.
This thread is for people who've taken permethrin, put on sulfur, and the trails of mites are gone, but they still feel the creepy-crawlies (formication) and itches without a lot of other visible symptoms....
The demodex *could* be one explanation for the itches in your scalp. And the formication on your body- scabies mites aren't supposed to give you the creepy-crawlies. They might explain why the itches persist after permethrin and sulfur treatments. And the demodex are normally pretty harmless, until your immune system wants to kill anything that looks like a mite, and your brain panics every time it might be living on you.
It might explain why some people think tea tree oil kills scabies while other people say it doesn't work and there's no clinical evidence for it. Supposedly tea tree oil is bad for the demodex.
... But something like half of adults have demodex mites. And if scabies sends your immune system into overdrive and your nervous system into red alert mode, the demodex could go from a harmless creature into an irritant.
So right now I have three choices:
1.) Keep going around thinking I have scabies after the lesions are gone and the doctors say I'm cured. I can get a lint box and start picking strange fibers out of my skin.
2.) Go see a shrink and get an anti-pruritic.(I'm strongly considering it- I'm willing to admit this could be psychosomatic or some sort of neuropathy if it will help get rid of the itching. And I did have OCD growing up, so I'm not afraid of shrinks).
3.) Try and figure out if (1) I have demodex mites and (2) they are the source of my itching. Anecdotal evidence seems to suggest I had symptoms of them well before I had scabies.
I will let you guys know how it goes.
-Itchy in NJ
Vertical

Rochester, NY

#7 Nov 29, 2013
Thank you, Itchy, for your observations. I found this thread when I googled "post-scabies neuropathy." I've been treated twice by the permathrin (my spouse as well) a week apart and when I was still getting bumps that gave me a new outbreak of hives (my initial reaction to the first scabies mound) we both went to our dermatologist who gave us a compounded ointment (expensive!) of 6% sulfur and 0.1% Triamcynalone, which is a mild corticosteroid that we're applying 2x day for 3 weeks (maybe too many guns). I've wondered this: can scabies create a neuropathy that lingers after eradication--rather like shingles can? Can it so irritate your immune system that you feel itch for months afterwards? I'm getting the creepy-crawlies you describe not only in my face but all over my body now. Can the steroids you take compromise your immune system and/or boost your sensitivity to itch? Can scabies pave the way for an infestation by demodex? I DO have demodex in my eyelashes and probably on my face: it has contributed to blepheritis (infection of the eyelids) and ulcerations in my cornea that I've been treated for repeatedly, and I have rosacea. I read with horror about the people who suffer from itching and formication after scabies for half a year. I have a compromised immune system in the first place (IBS, etc.) made worse by my idiot PCP who just put me on Prednisone instead of sending me to a dermatologist. I'm thinking that scabies might cause a condition that a) sensitizes your skin to sensation b) paves the way for folliculitis caused by demodex on the body c) is aggravated by all the effing drugs you take. What to do? Whom to tell? Educate our dermatologists? I choose number 3 among your suggestions at the end of your post. I'm not delusional. But new scrapings don't show any scabies on me or my spouse, and I'm still itching like crazy after 3 weeks. Also, we must deal w/ my spouse's gigantic paranoia and panic attacks and the frenetic cleaning. This is not ridiculous. Doctors need to address this.
Panel

Hollywood, FL

#8 Nov 29, 2013
For most people who come to this forum for help, they do have numerous scabies mites that cause the "creepy crawly" feeling you speak of. You don't necessarily have to have demodex mites to feel this. Those with compromised immune systems that cannot fight this mite, will and do feel this "creepy crawly" feeling. If you have demodex mites, well, this is a completely different mite to deal with. This is a scabies forum and most people on here have scabies, not demodex mites. It is possible that one person with a compromised immunity can have up to a thousand scabies mites on them, and if this is the case, the creepy crawly feeling is constant.

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