are all scabies burrows represented with a track line?

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boo

Chino, CA

#1 Jul 14, 2008
i'm in post scabies stage now (or at least i hope). are the burrows usually attached with the track line, or can there be burrows without the line...the burrows hold the eggs too, right? can eggs be placed elsewhere, or will it be a noticeable red, swollen bump. thanks!
Itty Bitty Critters

Hollywood, FL

#2 Jul 14, 2008
boo wrote:
i'm in post scabies stage now (or at least i hope). are the burrows usually attached with the track line, or can there be burrows without the line...the burrows hold the eggs too, right? can eggs be placed elsewhere, or will it be a noticeable red, swollen bump. thanks!
I have canine sarcoptic mites, so I don't get the burrows you speak of. I get a red nodule, mosquito looking red bump mark. And not too many of those, so yeah, the mites can burrow into your skin and lay eggs and sometimes it will not be visible, at all.
MR AL

Olympia, WA

#3 Jul 14, 2008
Itty Bitty Critters wrote:
<quoted text>
I have canine sarcoptic mites, so I don't get the burrows you speak of. I get a red nodule, mosquito looking red bump mark. And not too many of those, so yeah, the mites can burrow into your skin and lay eggs and sometimes it will not be visible, at all.
Scabies can be nodules too!
Welty

AOL

#4 Jul 14, 2008
I think Itty means papular. Nodular are almost half a centimeter, quite large, quite red, and are a known kind of scabies and quite noticable. I also have the papular, small, kind. Like a misquito bite or often even much smaller. And pretty widely scattered most of the time they are an inch or more away and usually three is a big group. However, they cause that same systemic itch that we all get. But to answer your question, I think that people who had burrows are making true progress when their burrows disapper, but I still think you should continue treating, perhaps with a "safer thing" like sulfer until all bumps are gone. I mean keep treating those little areas. And keep up the envriromental work for a while longer. Okay?
Mite Killer

Escondido, CA

#5 Jul 14, 2008
Itty Bitty Critters wrote:
<quoted text>
I have canine sarcoptic mites, so I don't get the burrows you speak of. I get a red nodule, mosquito looking red bump mark. And not too many of those, so yeah, the mites can burrow into your skin and lay eggs and sometimes it will not be visible, at all.
your burrow may not look like classic burrows but it's not because you have canine sarcoptic mites. all sarcoptic mites burrow in the same way. it may not display the same on everyone. but I think it mostly does. I also have found areas, especially my feet, where eggs have been layed and I didn't I had a burrow there. I know they hatched because of the spread of bumps and the new moulting pouches. Nothing kills the f#@k1ng eggs!
Welty

AOL

#6 Jul 15, 2008
No tracks, tunnels? if that's the right word. I'm not sure of the terms - I do realize these things are burrowing, but they are different looking than the normal ones as described in all the main literature. Canine ones are always described as papular. Maybe if you have them long enough you start getting the tunnels, but I never got them. Or the rashes on the hands.
Welty

AOL

#7 Jul 15, 2008
Anyway, all I mean is don't let the diagnosis escape you or your Doctor either if you have an atypical rash, take a list of the types of rashes with you, or they will possibly never realize what you have, if they or you are looking for the "typical" rash. I know it took Sam a long time to get a diagnosis.
Sam

United States

#8 Jul 15, 2008
The rashes can hide the burrows. Sometimes if you pull the skin tight, you can see the burrows underneath. I waited too long to go see the doc. By the time I went, I looked like your average everyday leper ;)
Welty

AOL

#9 Jul 15, 2008
Hi Sam, By that, I mean I don't have rashes, I have discrete, little dots, that are usually at least a half an inch or more from each other, no tunnels, no webs on hands, nothing typical. I was clear for a month after Perm Iver, Sulfer, now I'm up burnin the midnight oil and mad, because I feel that my cat is not getting the one treatment she needs, because no big company can make money off of Ivermectin, and vets won't use it because it's "off label". She's been very itchy. Revolution was too little too late for her. I really think I had these beat, except my cat was still itching. And you can't use pyrethrin based stuff on cats, toxic to them so it's a big catch 22. P.S. I've looked at my skin high and low, but mostly they are easy to see on my arms, but my spots are tunnel less and no black spots either. I did start out with red pinpricks at first. I noticed those. And I've seen two tiny white line scars a little paler than me, that have never been by a rash or papule, but that I never noticed before. They never had a bump close enough to them, and are white and straight, and my doc didn't seem to think those were burrows. Iver and Perm worked on me, but it took a diligent approach. And I stopped ironing my bedcovers nightly because I'd realized that I'd not had any in my hair in two months, and that sensation started up quickly at the onset of my problems and was the worst place for me. Anyway, I think my hair will start up. I blasted a lace with gel alchohol, and it stopped it, but if it burrowed, I'm glad I got my hair cut, when I was cured for a month, because it might be a while again.
Welty

AOL

#10 Jul 15, 2008
place, not lace.
itchininthesouth

Carthage, TX

#11 Jul 15, 2008
I would not presume to know as much about this as you guys, but I have a question. Everything I have read, the mites that get on dogs and cats are not the ones that get on us and vise versa. The ones that cause us the misery are not the ones that get on animals??? Is this true? Is is possible that your pets have something else and it is just a coincidence?
Welty

AOL

#12 Jul 17, 2008
I've read a ton of articles that Sarcoptic Scabei Canis can infest cats, foxes, ferrets, guinuei pigs(sp?) and the Mayo Clinic Family medicine compendium says that they can infest humans. Look up types of scabies on the internet. They list canine scabies and describe the papular rash that I have. S. Canis are not supposed to be able to live on humans permanently, but you have to break off contact for two weeks with a pet, or you can ping pong it back and forth forever. They can live on these other animals and reproduce. It's very well documented. And I think they can do it on humans as easily. I think they are not supposed to be able to reproduce on humans, but there's a short article that Sam found about them reproducing normally on humans. My question is, if they have been here all along on my pet, since we got her,(NOW I know what those crusts were and that the Manegy dog that we knew had mange, not allergies)., But, why now? I didn't start iching until about six months ago, and my cat started up with the serious itching shortly after me. I might be increasing the number of mites, or making them more foreign to her, when they go back to her? I am pretty positive that they're reproducing on me. They are leaving wastes in me that I react to, and my mite allergy shot arm is acting up when I get dustmite shots, a big reaction.(Dust sufferers are allegic to their wastes, as are scabies rashes a reaction to the wastes).(A big after shot reaction in your arm, in my case a huge bump, often means ex. if you're allergic to grass, that shot causes a big bump during grass season, when the rest of the year it doesn't really bother you.) The size of the bump indicates the amount of allergen in your system to something. Supposedly the mites prefer their own host, but it doesn't seem to slow them down once they get used to a host. They adapt. It's survival of the fittest.
Welty

AOL

#13 Jul 17, 2008
I think if you live with the pet, then they get used to you, and adapt better, also.
Welty

AOL

#14 Jul 17, 2008
I also wonder if a case of human ones could join up with an existing case of canine mites on your pet and create a more flexible type of mite that is even more adapted to people? If this is the case, then the mites on my pet quickly dominated, because they're so long established, and the pattern on myself is classic canine. And on my cat the pattern was classic canine. Now she's crust free thanks to suppressing meds, but she's itching more. A lot more. Because I know that none of it is fleas or ear mites.
Scabies3

Hollywood, FL

#15 Jul 17, 2008
itchininthesouth wrote:
I would not presume to know as much about this as you guys, but I have a question. Everything I have read, the mites that get on dogs and cats are not the ones that get on us and vise versa. The ones that cause us the misery are not the ones that get on animals??? Is this true? Is is possible that your pets have something else and it is just a coincidence?
I got my mites from my pets. I eventually gave up all 4 of my pets. I lived a year, still with these mites, with no pets around me. I could not get rid of them. Now that I have another dog, so that is one more host here in my home and me, my dog has these mites, and she got them from me. So, yes, I am a human and I have some sort of canine sarcoptic mite. It is a very tenacious mite. I have heard that there is a super scabies mite out there, and I think I have it. That's old literature saying that dog and cat mites cannot live on humans. THEY DO, and they thrive. Especially is you are getting on in years like me and/or have a poor immune system.
Sam

United States

#16 Jul 17, 2008
Welty, I thought the same thing a long while back. I wondered if a dust mite or animal mite got jiggy with a scabies mite and created the kind of super mite I had. I didn't have any pets to ping pong with. Moving helped tremendously and then later being away from my home and regular work area for a few weeks I think finished it up, along with new clothes and washing in BB while keeping up weekly iver and eurax at the same time, and spot treating in between. I know not everyone can just pack up and move. So you're cured but you're not sure if your cat is or not?
Sam

United States

#17 Jul 17, 2008
S3, it does sound like yours are more environmental, getting bit up in the kitchen, and everything else you said. If you're still taking the iver and doing perm at the same time, and heavy cleaning and boiling, borax, clorox2 laundry, but still have it, I don't know. I read the articles you posted about collembola and other mites infesting humans and I think it's possible.

If you had that many sarcoptic mites in your environment then it seems like you would have crusted areas?

I went to my storage and it felt like there was something in there. Opened my refrigerator in storage and it made my arms and face itch. Sensitivity to dust mites or is there some type of bug in my things in storage? I didn't get anything out, thought of Bill and Bryan in NC saying the same thing, came home and showered, put sulfur all over, and took iver the next morning. I plan to just get what I absolutely need out of there and take the rest to the dump. I don't want to take any chances on getting this again.
Jilly

Australia

#18 Jul 18, 2008
Welty wrote:
Hi Sam, By that, I mean I don't have rashes, I have discrete, little dots, that are usually at least a half an inch or more from each other, no tunnels, no webs on hands, nothing typical. I was clear for a month after Perm Iver, Sulfer, now I'm up burnin the midnight oil and mad, because I feel that my cat is not getting the one treatment she needs, because no big company can make money off of Ivermectin, and vets won't use it because it's "off label". She's been very itchy. Revolution was too little too late for her. I really think I had these beat, except my cat was still itching. And you can't use pyrethrin based stuff on cats, toxic to them so it's a big catch 22. P.S. I've looked at my skin high and low, but mostly they are easy to see on my arms, but my spots are tunnel less and no black spots either. I did start out with red pinpricks at first. I noticed those. And I've seen two tiny white line scars a little paler than me, that have never been by a rash or papule, but that I never noticed before. They never had a bump close enough to them, and are white and straight, and my doc didn't seem to think those were burrows. Iver and Perm worked on me, but it took a diligent approach. And I stopped ironing my bedcovers nightly because I'd realized that I'd not had any in my hair in two months, and that sensation started up quickly at the onset of my problems and was the worst place for me. Anyway, I think my hair will start up. I blasted a lace with gel alchohol, and it stopped it, but if it burrowed, I'm glad I got my hair cut, when I was cured for a month, because it might be a while again.
What do you mean by webs what do they look like and do they remain after. I can see like centre spots with feint lines leading to another spot these form a type of spider web pattern and these are old and still on skin cant seem to get rid of them can anyone help me out here. Sam or welty. I am really being very good with my skin extra moisurizer and exfoliate but they are still there and some small some larger.
Jilly

Australia

#19 Jul 18, 2008
Sam wrote:
The rashes can hide the burrows. Sometimes if you pull the skin tight, you can see the burrows underneath. I waited too long to go see the doc. By the time I went, I looked like your average everyday leper ;)
Sam what does your skin look like now do you have any liver spot type of freckly things and do you have these web tye things. I have this furry throat that just doesnt go away i think its histamine problems due to allergy the mites left behind..
Itty Bitty Critters

Hollywood, FL

#20 Jul 18, 2008
Sam wrote:
S3, it does sound like yours are more environmental, getting bit up in the kitchen, and everything else you said. If you're still taking the iver and doing perm at the same time, and heavy cleaning and boiling, borax, clorox2 laundry, but still have it, I don't know. I read the articles you posted about collembola and other mites infesting humans and I think it's possible.
If you had that many sarcoptic mites in your environment then it seems like you would have crusted areas?
I went to my storage and it felt like there was something in there. Opened my refrigerator in storage and it made my arms and face itch. Sensitivity to dust mites or is there some type of bug in my things in storage? I didn't get anything out, thought of Bill and Bryan in NC saying the same thing, came home and showered, put sulfur all over, and took iver the next morning. I plan to just get what I absolutely need out of there and take the rest to the dump. I don't want to take any chances on getting this again.
Sam. I don't know anymore. i think it is canine mites, but a very tenacious kind. my dog has alot of them now. i feel bad for her. my cat did have a crust, when the vet first saw her and noticed she had mange. remember, he scraped it and it came back as sarcoptic. so, i haven't had any crusts, it could be my skin type (american indian)... and, also, i am never without iver, or sulfur, or alcohol, etc.; although i don't use it alot like i used to. i understand these things better now than ever before. and i know exactly how small they are. they are definitely MICROSCOPIC!! and also, I could have two different types of mites, as parasites VECTOR other parasites.
take care of you.

Something is going on, Sam. Be careful with reinfestation. I know it is very scary. yeah, all that stuff I guess is not worth reinfestation, for sure.

california is hoping with these things. be careful.

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