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progress

Coolum Beach, Australia

#1 Aug 12, 2007
I am a a professional clinician and have 8 years of science background.
I dont pretend to know everything but i do feel i have a lot of insight to offer.
I have read almost everything relevant (and much more).
I have contacted journal study authors when I needed to.
I will try at all times to make clear how biased something i say is to my experience and when it is pretty clear scientific fact.
I say this because looking back now i realize that probably the vast majority of what i thought i could sense, what i thought was working or not working was all in my head.
This disease makes you paranoid and creates many delsuions. Like myself most of you i would not have believed what i was sensing or thinking was and delusional, but now I realize most of it was!
I will get into this more later.
progress

Coolum Beach, Australia

#2 Aug 12, 2007
I have learned a lot from you and now I want you to know what i have learned.

I am going post:
1) what i learned from studies
2) my story
3) my recommendations

I am going to stick around to help you guys for a while.
I wont be posting too frequently as i need to get my life on track again.
I also want this thread to be pretty easy and quick to get through for someone new. It took me forever to get through the other threads.
For this reason I ask that people keep down the chatter.
PLEASE JUST POST QUESTIONS HERE OR FOCUSSED DISCUSSION, I WANT TO READ AND RESPOND TO EVERY POST ON THIS THREAD AND I WILL HAVE TROUBLE IF AT THE END OF THE WEEK THERE ARE 100 POSTS.
Dont be offended if I cut your comment off this thread if i dont think it is valuable for everyone to read.

I hope that I can support you all to end this.

Now for the science....
progress

Coolum Beach, Australia

#3 Aug 12, 2007
These were the most illuminating studies i read. Most of what i read were just reviews repeating the basics. I dont have links but these were all online on the EBSCO database.

Scabies
lancet may 2006 (367)
- away from hosts mites can live 24-36 h at 21 celcius and 40-80% humid
- at 10 cel and 97% humid mite remain capable of reinfest for about 1 week
- below 20 celcius mites are unable to move and cannot penetrate the skin
- at 34 cel mites survive for fewer than 24 h irrespective of humid
- infectivity decreases the longer mites are off host
- permethrin resistance is on the rise esp. in australia (some strains are totally resistant)
- reinfestation (due mult applications) to increases the risk of resistance
so far oral ivermectin resitance has been noted in 2 cases, these patients had 30-58 doses over 4 years

First documentation of in vivo and in vitro ivermectin resiatnce in sarcoptes scabei
CID jul 2004 (39)
- used 280 ug/kg iver dosage
- keratolytic therapy for crusts alternated 1) urea 10% and 5% lactic acid in sorbloene (sold as eucerin in canada) with 2) salacylic acid in cetomacrogel
-***** used 25% benzyl benzoate and 5% tea tree oil (shortest mite kill time of all scabacides in another study)
- resistance to permethrin has been confirmed in cases, resiatnce to BB and lindane has also been suspected
- tea tree oil alone is a very rapid killing scabacide (at 5%)
- ivermectin is prob. not ovacidal
- 1x every two weeks is not an effective regimen for ivermectin due to lifespan timing
- authors recommend ivermectin schedule of days 1,2,8,9,15,22,29
- PROGRESS says: somehwere i read that out of a whole lot of cases who had several doses of ivermectin only two were ivermectin resistant. So it is possible to have iver resistant scabies but extremely unlikely

rapid and preferential sebum secretion of ivermectin: a new factor that may determine drug responsiveness in patients with scabies
Arch derm dec 2002 (138)
-**** peak skin concentration occcurs at 8 hours with a measured decline at 24h
- no decline seen at 24 hours on the abdomon
-**** authors recomend taking ivermectin in evening to achieve max concentrations when young mite walk over body
- authors recommend not changing night clothing to help build up iver reservoir (PROGRESS says: this can also be said of washing your skin)
- non-oily skin is a major risk factor for treatment failure (ie people taking estrogen, retinoids (ie high dose vit A or acutane!!!) malnutrition, diabetes mellitus, down syndrome or elderly)
- rubbing and scratching while sleeping helps distribute iver over body
progress

Coolum Beach, Australia

#4 Aug 12, 2007
Ivermectin: pharmacology and application in dermatology
int journal of derm 2005 (44)
- ivermectin shown to be lethal in collies (dogs)
- increases GABA action killing mites by paralysis
- probably not ovacidal
second dosage at one week interval more effective than 1 dose (50% of cases failed with one dose)

Safety tolerability and phramacokinetics of escalating high doses of iver in healthy adults
j or clin pharm 2002 (42)
- dosages of 2000 ug/kg still safe (10x recommended)
- adverse effects of headaches, nausea, dizziness and rash
- no evidence of cns toxicity
-*** absorption is higher (2.5x) after fatty meal and half life is shorter (and half life of 16 h in blood)
- PROGRESS says: fat absorption effects probably account for varietions of reported half lifes
- fat also increases the bioavalailability of the drug massively!!
- PROGRESS says: I STAND CORRECTED REREADING THIS STUDY STRONGLY INDICATES IVERMECTIN SHOULD BE TAKEN WITH A FATTY MEAL!! ANOTHER STUDY SAID THAT FAT DECREASES THE HALF LIFE AND WOULD BE BAD BECAUSE IT IS OUT OF THE SERUM FASTER SO LESS CHANCE TO MAKE IT TO THE SKIN. THIS IS MISLEADING BECAUSE THE HALF LIFE IS ONLY SHORTER BECAUSE THE INITIAL ABSORPTION IS HIGHER. TAKE IVERMECTIN WITH FAT OR OIL!!!

Hidden scabies: diagnosis by polymerase chain reaction
brit j or derm 2001(144)
- skin scapings in healthy people often show false negatives (they MISS scabies that ARE there)
- ELISA DNA extraction can be done on scapings to make them more sensitive
- PROGRESS says: just because your skin scpaing is negative you may not be clear. I have no idea how practical this test is (ie which labs do it and how expensive it is)
- some people have evidence of multiple strains of different scabies mites (PROGRESS says: most of you probably dont but it is possible)

An epidemiologic and therapeutic reassessment of scabies
- at room temperature mites can only reinfest 96 hours off host
- healthy people usually only have 3 to five pregnant females on there body
- mites were vaccuumed from house of HIV/ crusted scabies patients homes (worst possible cases), they found:
6312 mites per gram of dust from bed linen, 666 mites/g from curtains
PROGRESS says: don't freak out because this is a bit decieving since it is very unlikely you would get anywhere near a gram of dust off bed linens
this does however suggest that if you have had this a long time they are pretty much all over your house
progress

Coolum Beach, Australia

#5 Aug 12, 2007
I am a a professional clinician and have 8 years of science background.
I dont pretend to know everything but i do feel i have a lot of insight to offer.
I have read almost everything relevant (and much more).
I have contacted journal study authors when I needed to.
I will try at all times to make clear how biased something i say is to my experience and when it is pretty clear scientific fact.
I say this because looking back now i realize that probably the vast majority of what i thought i could sense, what i thought was working or not working was all in my head.
This disease makes you paranoid and creates many delsuions. Like myself most of you i would not have believed what i was sensing or thinking was and delusional, but now I realize most of it was!
I will get into this more later.

I have learned a lot from you and now I want you to know what i have learned.

I am going post:
1) what i learned from studies
2) my story
3) my recommendations

I am going to stick around to help you guys for a while.
I wont be posting too frequently as i need to get my life on track again.
I also want this thread to be pretty easy and quick to get through for someone new. It took me forever to get through the other threads.
For this reason I ask that people keep down the chatter.
PLEASE JUST POST QUESTIONS HERE OR FOCUSSED DISCUSSION, I WANT TO READ AND RESPOND TO EVERY POST ON THIS THREAD AND I WILL HAVE TROUBLE IF AT THE END OF THE WEEK THERE ARE 100 POSTS.
Dont be offended if I cut your comment off this thread if i dont think it is valuable for everyone to read.

I hope that I can support you all to end this.

Now for the science....
spacer

Coolum Beach, Australia

#6 Aug 12, 2007
space
progress

Coolum Beach, Australia

#7 Aug 12, 2007
These were the most illuminating studies i read. Most of what i read were just reviews repeating the basics. I dont have links but these were all online on the EBSCO database.

Scabies
lancet may 2006 (367)
- away from hosts mites can live 24-36 h at 21 celcius and 40-80% humid
- at 10 cel and 97% humid mite remain capable of reinfest for about 1 week
- below 20 celcius mites are unable to move and cannot penetrate the skin
- at 34 cel mites survive for fewer than 24 h irrespective of humid
- infectivity decreases the longer mites are off host
- permethrin resistance is on the rise esp. in australia (some strains are totally resistant)
- reinfestation (due mult applications) to increases the risk of resistance
so far oral ivermectin resitance has been noted in 2 cases, these patients had 30-58 doses over 4 years

First documentation of in vivo and in vitro ivermectin resiatnce in sarcoptes scabei
CID jul 2004 (39)
- used 280 ug/kg iver dosage
- keratolytic therapy for crusts alternated 1) urea 10% and 5% lactic acid in sorbloene (sold as eucerin in canada) with 2) salacylic acid in cetomacrogel
-***** used 25% benzyl benzoate and 5% tea tree oil (shortest mite kill time of all scabacides in another study)
- resistance to permethrin has been confirmed in cases, resiatnce to BB and lindane has also been suspected
- tea tree oil alone is a very rapid killing scabacide (at 5%)
- ivermectin is prob. not ovacidal
- 1x every two weeks is not an effective regimen for ivermectin due to lifespan timing
- authors recommend ivermectin schedule of days 1,2,8,9,15,22,29
- PROGRESS says: somehwere i read that out of a whole lot of cases who had several doses of ivermectin only two were ivermectin resistant. So it is possible to have iver resistant scabies but extremely unlikely

rapid and preferential sebum secretion of ivermectin: a new factor that may determine drug responsiveness in patients with scabies
Arch derm dec 2002 (138)
-**** peak skin concentration occcurs at 8 hours with a measured decline at 24h
- no decline seen at 24 hours on the abdomon
-**** authors recomend taking ivermectin in evening to achieve max concentrations when young mite walk over body
- authors recommend not changing night clothing to help build up iver reservoir (PROGRESS says: this can also be said of washing your skin)
- non-oily skin is a major risk factor for treatment failure (ie people taking estrogen, retinoids (ie high dose vit A or acutane!!!) malnutrition, diabetes mellitus, down syndrome or elderly)
- rubbing and scratching while sleeping helps distribute iver over body
progress

Coolum Beach, Australia

#8 Aug 12, 2007
I am a a professional clinician and have 8 years of science background.
I dont pretend to know everything but i do feel i have a lot of insight to offer.
I have read almost everything relevant (and much more).
I have contacted journal study authors when I needed to.
I will try at all times to make clear how biased something i say is to my experience and when it is pretty clear scientific fact.
I say this because looking back now i realize that probably the vast majority of what i thought i could sense, what i thought was working or not working was all in my head.
This disease makes you paranoid and creates many delsuions. Like myself most of you i would not have believed what i was sensing or thinking was and delusional, but now I realize most of it was!
I will get into this more later.

I have learned a lot from you and now I want you to know what i have learned.

I am going post:
1) what i learned from studies
2) my story
3) my recommendations

I am going to stick around to help you guys for a while.
I wont be posting too frequently as i need to get my life on track again.
I also want this thread to be pretty easy and quick to get through for someone new. It took me forever to get through the other threads.
For this reason I ask that people keep down the chatter.
PLEASE JUST POST QUESTIONS HERE OR FOCUSSED DISCUSSION, I WANT TO READ AND RESPOND TO EVERY POST ON THIS THREAD AND I WILL HAVE TROUBLE IF AT THE END OF THE WEEK THERE ARE 100 POSTS.

I hope that I can support you all to end this.

Now for the science....

unfortunaly this forum wont let me write it all down at once. does anyone know how long it is before you can add another big message without deleting the old one?

Since: Aug 07

Coolum Beach, Australia

#9 Aug 12, 2007
oops i doubled that last one....

Since: Aug 07

Coolum Beach, Australia

#10 Aug 12, 2007
Scabies and Lice: Review of the clinical features and management principles
derm nursing aug 2001 (13)
- mites can pened=trate the epidermis within 30 minutes of contact
- female lays 2-3 eggs per day for lifespan of 4 to 6 weeks
- eggs hatch within 2-4 days, by day 10 adult mite is formed

oTHER INFO FROM VARIOUS STUDIES:
- Benzyl benoate used to be a food additive, very safe (dont drink)
- scabies never go deeper that the outer layer of skin stratum corneum
- alcohol also increases bioavailability similar to fat, as a result ivermectin alcohol solutions are approximatel 2x more potent than pills
PROGRESS says: bioavailability (potency) of ivermectin can be approximately doubled by taking it with alcohol or fat
- mites walk approximately 1 cm per minute on the ground (cant move at less than 20 celcius)
- peremthrin excreted in urine
- ivermectin excreted solely in feces
- topicals may not penetrate crusts
- missing under nails is a frequent reason for treatment failure
- one study had i think 60 people with scabies sleep in a bed, then they got out and immediately people without scabies got into the beds, only 3 of 60 ended up getting scabies (these numbers are as close as i can remember them) PROGRESS says: this suggests scabies isnt as contagious as we may have thought
-***** ivermectin is broken down in liver by cytocrome P450, P450 can be inhibited by grapefruit juice. DRINKING GRAPEFRUIT JUICE WILL KEEP IVER IN YOUR BLOOD LONGER (DECREASE THE HALFLIFE) AND MORE WILL END UP ON YOUR SKIN!

HERE ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT POINTS I LEARNED I CANNOT EMPHASIZE HOW BIG THESE ARE:
-- DRINKING GRAPEFRUIT JUICE WILL KEEP IVER IN YOUR BLOOD LONGER (DECREASE THE HALFLIFE) AND MORE WILL END UP ON YOUR SKIN!
-- TAKING IVERMECTIN IN AN ALCOHOL SOLUTION OR WITH A FATTY MEAL DOUBLES IT POTENCY (once source i read says the opposite but the authors misinterpreted the data ie they read the results but didn't look at the graph)
-- at 34 celcius mites lose infesting capabilities under 24 hours
-- at 10 celcius mites can live a week
-- under 20 celcius mites cannot move in environment and cannot reinfest (if you lie on them though they will heat up fast)
-- permethrin rersistance is a definate possibility
-- ivermectin resistance is possible but not likely

Since: Aug 07

Coolum Beach, Australia

#11 Aug 12, 2007
HERE ARE SOME OTHER HUGE SUMMARY POINTS:
-- ivermectin get excreted an sits in your sebum (oil on your skin), non-oily skin is a huge reason for ivermectin treatment failure, washing your skin is very detrimental to treatment. only was it once you dont want the ivermectin to work anymore -- or long after it is gone from your skin -- this could be 2 days or more if you are using graopefruit juice with your iver as i recomemend

Since: Aug 07

Coolum Beach, Australia

#12 Aug 12, 2007
My STORY:

i am an extremely fit non-smoking 35 year old male osteopath
i believe i contracted scabies sexually from a girl after sleepi9ng with her and in the same bed for about 4 days.
i noticed i was symptomatic about 2 months later. this seems like a long time but one of the studies backs up that it is possible to be asymptomatic sometimes for a few months.
i had moved to the tropics and didnt know what i had. i was misinformed by the girl that she had given me molluscum and it could be cured by tea tree oil. she denied having scabies.
this of course was nonsense, both of our symptoms were textbook scabies, itching on all the areas highlighted on the diagrams, worse at night, folliculitis (zits) mostly on my gluteal area, raised red bumps 1-2 mm diameter and also the vesicles the same size.
taking the advice i was given i used 100% TEA TREE every evening before bed for a week. this seemed to have worked and i was symptom free for almost 2 months. the girl i got it from cured herself this way (100% tea tree 2x/day for 2 weeks)
it was not suprising it worked tea tree has been confirmed to be one of the fastest killing scabicides on the market, it is not just a silly home remedy. i tried the same thing when it came back 2 months later. this time it didn't work, i'm not sure if i persisted enough. remember i didnt have any idea i had scabies at that point.

Since: Aug 07

Coolum Beach, Australia

#13 Aug 12, 2007
after several more weeks i went to a family practitioner, he diagnosed me with scabies and told me to use 5% permethrin cream and it would cure it. he diagnosed me based on visualization of the bumps and history information.
also note that never at any point have i ever seen a mite (i thought i have several times though), never at any point have i seen a visible track or burrow (that i recognized) this is supposedly a common story for otherwise healthy people.
i washed my bedclothes and clothes the next day and the single permethrin worked great for about two weeks. itching came back.
md told me to do it again. i did it again. i did it two days in a row, i did it two more days in a row, i did it everyother day for 2 weeks. stll kept coming back.
read emedicine and got md to write me a script for stromectol (ivermectin), gave me two doses. did them 1 week apart with peremthrin. came back. i ordered ivermectin in alchohol for horses and liquid permethrin. panicking i used these almost continuously together for 2 weeks straight.
the i was absorbing so much permethrin i had splitting headaches all day long. i had to keep reapplying because the perm kept drying up. the combination of the two started to make me lethargic, but i couldn't sleep at night.
i felt crawling even when i had the permethrin on. i felt pinpricks which people on here said were burrows. when the sun went down i could feel them all over my back mostly. i figured it was because i sleep on my back. plus i had folliculitis (zits) all over my back, i havent had a zit in 8 years prior to this. i was washing everything in bvorax and drying it for hours. for some reason still when i put a shirt on i would feel crawling.
i would spot treat my back and iron the shirt inside out. still crawling. at some point i realized that it was impossible that anything could be alive on my shirt so i developed a self test:

when you feel crawling lie down perfectly still, breathe softly... is it still crawling? mites dont stop crawling when you become still but little hairs or illusions do!

Since: Aug 07

Coolum Beach, Australia

#14 Aug 12, 2007
i would wake up at night and feel them on me. those ones i still think were real crawling, but looking back i'm still not 100% sure.
I was losing my mind. i isolated myself from everyone. i was panicking and desperate. my md was useless and even though i would have never done it, my frustration made me feel suicidal.
i wanted to give up but i didnt know how. i was reading these forums everyday.
i would treat nightly and stand naked with flipflops only for hours so as not to rub off the creams. i would shower with a brush and borax. after the showers i could feel them crawling all over me even more (in retrospect this was probably not actual crawling)
i was spraying peremthrin cockroach spray everywhere it was making me choke.
i developed plans, i followed the 1,2,8,9,15,22,29 ivermectin routine. i made it to day 5 and realized it wasnt working because i still felt crawling and pinpricks. after all pinpricks couldnt be anything but active burrowing right?
i then used ivermectin and permethrin constantly for 1 week. i bought 5 sleeping bags an recycled them so i was sleeping in a new one each night. i figured by 4 days the old one should be free from mites.
like i said i felt like complete shit, depressed, splitting headaches, lethargy.

then i went to the library and read every journal article i could get my hands on. took me two days to read about 30 studies. I have summarized the best info i got from those above.

then i developed my plan...

Since: Aug 07

Coolum Beach, Australia

#15 Aug 12, 2007
i isolated everything into garbage bags,
i had clothes laid out for 1 week, and then clothes for another week these were all beyond a doubt clean, especially shoes!!
i cranked the heat up in my apartment and left.
i lived in a seperate motel room every night of the week.
(if anyone feels guilty about doing this read the study that showed only 3/60 people got scabies from sharing a bed - plus when you are treating you are probably hardly shedding any live mites -- this is my belief)

Since: Aug 07

Coolum Beach, Australia

#16 Aug 12, 2007
i took 2 ml alcohol based (20 mg) ivermectin every afternoon so it would be on my skin by the evening and night (peaks on skin 8 hrs later)
i took it on an empty stomach (hadnt eaten for 3 hrs prior or 1 hr after), i realize now this was a mistake, oil helps it get absorbed and increases the bioavailability, but the alcohol solution probably accompished this already.
i drank grapefruit juice all day to keep my liver from breaking down the ivermectin. this is a key point that i feel very strongly about. it will stretch the effective time of ivermectin out much longer (this is my educated hypothesis but the result hasnt actually been studied)
my topical scabacide was 25% benzyl benzoate (BB) mixed with 5% tea tree oil (TT)(ill call this combo BBTT)(use a drop of detergent to emmulsify the two and make it homogenous) because this was the most rapid killing scabacide in one of the studies
i used this because i was concerned so much exposure to the permethrin and they might have been resistant. however if you have been using BB or TT, you might want to switch to perm if you havent used it, or sulpher -- something you havent used.
i started using BBTT everynight (with the iver) and sleeping naked, and then again in the morning, but the TT smelled too strong so part way through the week i switched to BBTT at night and BB only in the morning.
I didnt shower that entire week. since i was treating my hair and scalp i would wash it in the morning by putting my head under the shower.
i used my clothes once and bagged them. the shoes i wore all week then bagged them.
at the end of the week i showered and reapplied BBTT immediately, i timed the shower as not to interfere with my iver.

Since: Aug 07

Coolum Beach, Australia

#17 Aug 12, 2007
this part gets dodgy... since i always felt pinpricks on my feet and crawling (even with new shoes) i assumed that my toenails, foot callusses were a major problem. i bought caustic soda. which is essentially lye. i soaked my feet and ankles till i had burned the calluses down to normal skin. i also gave myself a bad chemical burn on my leg. i did the same with my hands but for not as long.
this is fucked up thing to do and i am not sure if it was the turning point (at the time i think it was) or just totally insane and overkill, you will understand when i talk about post scabie/post treatment later why this might have been overkill.

essentially i had continuous ivermectin and BBTT for 1 whole week.

i moved back into my apartment.
i continued constant ivermectin as before and BBTT in pm / BB in am every day for one more week
I used the second set of clothes isolated and shoes. the others were isolated.
this entire time i was spraying my car with a perm and another pyrethin cockroach spray almost daily because this was the only thing i couldnt isolate.
about four days after the first time i repeated my caustic soda routine only for a shorter period of time.

by the end of the 2nd week i wasn't feeling anything that i couldnt attribute to the muscle twitches i started getting or the hair sensations

I stopped treatment altogether. i had won, or else i thought.

Since: Aug 07

Coolum Beach, Australia

#18 Aug 12, 2007
the second day off treatment all the sensations started coming back exactly as before pinpricks, crawling, deep itching!!!

i had failed... i was back to bad... i was devestated (i always thought that was an appropriate forum name)
i got a referral to an infectious disease specialist

as each before i tried to figure out where i went wrong.
where? where?
i hadnt touched an infested piece of clothing or furniture in two weeks. maybe it was my car? but i had been parking it in the sun each day, it was so hot inside and i had been spraying it so frequently.

i started to think about it and i realized that there was nothing wrong... it was air tight
but still i had itching, crawling, pinpricks. the fucking pinpricks!!

it wasnt until i had exterminated every possible alternative in my head that i was forced to accept the possibility that this was post scabies or post treatment.

you see i had had 2 weeks of constant BBTT/BB. this has a calming effect on the skin. when i stopped treating the symptoms of the post scabies/ post treatment were able to come back full blast.

Since: Aug 07

Coolum Beach, Australia

#19 Aug 12, 2007
i differetiate between poast scabies and post treatment because these are two different effects
post scabies is the sensations caused by the dead leftovers, post treatment is the effects caused by the chemicals.
when you have been treating for a long time you will have both of these. EVEN WHILE YOU ARE STILL INFESTED!
I repeat you will have all the sensations and symptoms of post scabies and post treatment before you have actually gotten rid of the mites.
Expect to feel almost exactly the same after your are cured as before when you are still traeting and killing!!
PLEASE think about what i just wrote. Knowing this i am certain there are people on this who have been cured for some time but don't know it.

I still have most of the sensations still one week after stopping treatment. For me, the pinpricks stopped about 3-4 days after i stopped treatment, but i still feel lesser prickling.

the big difference between post scabies/ post treatment and pre is that before i would feel crawling and pinpricks and then in that area i would get the deep itching after which would last until i treated it for a while. now when i get that deep itching it only lasts seconds to maybe a minute and then i wont feel it there again at all.
also like is said the pinpricks pretty much stopped about 4 days after treatment. AFTER TREATMENT!! Everything was already dead, but i was still having pinpricks.
I still have the transient, less intense "deep boring itching", crawling and interestingly now i have noticed i actually have lots of little muscle twitches and a nerve tingling. I attribute this to a peripheral neuropathy from the meds mostly.
Each day off treatment things get a bit better, never worse, but after a week I still had almost all the sensations.

Since: Aug 07

Coolum Beach, Australia

#20 Aug 12, 2007
I have decided to do two saftey treatments at one week intervals.
2 days of iver and BBTT/BB.
I am on day two of the first round and after retreating i have to say the intensity of my symptoms has increased significantly!! The itching is lasting longer, the pinpricks are back and the crawling has doubled!!!
The only thing i have changed is i retreated.

I will now wait 1 more week and do the same.

I will also retreat with peremthrin at some point to see what that does so i can tell you guys. I suspect it will bring on my symptoms even worse.

I know that some of you are probably thinking i might still be infested but i am completely certain that i am not. I feel about 80% the same but there are a few things which are qualitatively different (mention above), plus after i week off treatment things have slowly and consistantly got better. plus i havent seen any new skin bumps at all.
I am confident i am cured, but it took removing all possibility otherwise to convince me of this.

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