Permethrin Treatment and still itchin...

Permethrin Treatment and still itching questions...

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Sleepless

Willingboro, NJ

#1 Jun 3, 2008
I have gotten some great advise on this board and can't thank you all enough. I know I am being a little fanatic, but I am sure you all understand. I used Permethrin prescription Friday night. I washed all the bedding and ordered like a hundred dollars worth of more products ( Permethrin, sulfur cream, etc) online. It is now a few days after treatment and I am still itching which I understand may be normal but I am getting bumps (bites, eggs, scabies waste, whatever) in areas I never had the bites and bumps before? They itch bad and what is worse is they are now not just one my arms, legs, chest, but are moving up my inner and outer thigh to areas I definitely don't want these little buggers making me scratch! So, I am asking again, not because I am stupid but rather I think the mites have destroyed my brain cells or I have become obsessed.....Are these new bumps new infestation? Am I sill full of live unanalyzed scabies?

Not one other person in my home has gotten these. Everyone thinks I am nuts and just itching because of my "nerves".

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Colleen from Canada

Toronto, Canada

#2 Jun 3, 2008
The information on this post is very interesting and sometimes very
helpful. You have to try things and see what works for you.
I have tried the Kwellada (permerthin) creme and that got my son cured.
I have found any strong sulfer treatment to help a lot. But you need to
deal with the burrow. A scrub of borax, epsom salt and any body scrub
add hydrogen perxiode and where it bubbles and stings is where you
have burrow. I got reinfected by not dealing with burrows. I do an oil
treatment (full body) and a scrub treatment everyday ...It is getting better
The oil has everything in it: tea tree oil, peppermint oil, neem, sulfer
tumeric ....add anything that is suggested on this sight ...but do it
on all your skin ...and keep doing it for a long time...

More later
Sleepless

Willingboro, NJ

#3 Jun 4, 2008
Thank you Colleen. I can't find any burrow?
jimmy

Omaha, NE

#4 Jun 4, 2008
does a bath with borax in it help?
is it safe?
dog hotel

Indianapolis, IN

#5 Jun 4, 2008
to: Sleepless ...

I never found a burrow either. The dermatologist still doesn't know what to think. My first premethrin treatment I thought was a waste of time as I was getting very bad very fast, going from 30-50 bites/spots/sores to 200 7 days after that first treatment with 20-30 more each day. Being anxious, I get the doctor to get me another tube.(Since they are in the hair at the back of my head, I do my whole head when I do my body and use a tube per application.)

A second week goes by and I am even worse, not being able to go out in public, etc. Total Hell. Then midway into the third week, I get suddenly better!!! The improvement gets faster with each day. The terrible itching has stopped.

With the first application, I think premethrin kills critters we didn't know we had, that hadn't started to itch yet and explains why "premethrin makes it worse". That first application may have been all I really needed.

I have been doing linen every day for three weeks and that includes the sheet I sit on and the pillow cases on the chair here at the computer.

I probably don't need it but I just did one last application of premethrin which I will wash off this evening. I want to be so DONE with these critters for ever more!

For what it is worth, while I had a great infestation in my belly button, my genitals and butt were spared as well as my arm pits and face. Arms and legs, inner and outer thighs got it bad as did wrist and back of hand.

Also for what it is worth, I do have a few of the critters on a microscope slide preserved in clear finger nail polish. It doesn't appear that I have had run-of-the-mill human-type scabies as they look more like dog or horse mites, which I truly believe I got from sitting naked, after a shower, on hotel bedding. Also, my wife never developed the first bite! Nonetheless, she did one application for the good of the cause.

I am almost done wearing long-sleeved shirts!!
jammer

Manchester, UK

#6 Jun 4, 2008
Hiya well ive got rid of 4 separate cases of scabies that came from 4 completally separate sources,thats my history.

So first thing to realise is this board and many others are the very worst cases imho a lot of what you read on hear are people suffering with the post scabies and permethrin side effects im pretty sure 90% of the people on here are allready cured but because of side effects they just keep going a lot of people just dont seem to understand that if you keep pasting on heavy treatment after heavy treatment you wont ever stop itching.How will it stop if you dont??

Permethrin in my opinion releives for the first few days then the itching and rash comes back like mad this makes you think your infected again but for me its not,its the side effects of the treatment.

Sounds to me like the permethrin is the thing now causing your rash which is good.

Ive lived in 3 shared houses when ive had this and no one else has ever got it, as long as you dont have prolonged skin to skin contact with them its very easy not to pass it on especially if you wash a lot,i bath everytime i got back from work its not as contagious as people make it out to be your house is not covered in thousands of them.

As for your new bumps you have to realise that the rash you get from scabies is an allergic reaction to the debris of the scabies and doesnt mean that there is any bugs where the bumps are the only real way of confirming you have a reinfectation is if you find new burrows but ive only ever seen one so i dont bother looking.

The only way youll know your cured is to leave it a month see what happens dont get obssesed. hope this helps :)
Mite Killer

Del Mar, CA

#7 Jun 4, 2008
Not all of the posters are using Permethrin so it can't be assumed that 90% of posters are cured and that they are just having some sort of rash caused by using permethrin 5%. I would guess that maybe 10% of the posters may not have scabies but that's very difficult to say.

I looked up research on side effects caused by Permethrin on the skin. According to studies, only 1% of people got a rash. I used permethrin many times when my infestation was at it's worst and never developed a rash.

I agree that most new bumps developed a few days after treatment are caused by the bodies reaction to dead mites and their debris. But these bumps tend to dry up quickly and fade. Bumps caused by live mites don't go away so quickly, they may even start to spead, making track pattern bumps.

As for burrows, if someone has had scabies for awhile, they will have burrows. Not all burrows are visible to the naked eye.

Moulting pouches can be anywhere, mites come out of these pouches and are very active and move about the body, especially during the evening when our bodies warm up under clothing or covers. Or after hot bath.

We can't assume that a treatment or two will be enough. Unkilled eggs, mites missed during treatment or reinfestion can create an ongoing problem.
Colleen from Canada

North York, Canada

#8 Jun 4, 2008
There was a method ...I will look it up ...later . This person who
posted describes a bath that he/she took and used a few things to
get rid of surface mites,( sulfur dandruff shampoo, neem, espsom
salts and then does a borax scrub with hydrogyen perxiode added
This will show you ...mostly you will feel where the burrows are.
I use a borax and HP scrub ...but I put it with a moisturizer of some
kind because the borax can become brittle with just the Hydrogen
Peroxide. I use it in a solution with a body scrub that has apricot
body scrub ( it actually has walnuts ...so watch it if you have nut
allergies) but any moisturizer will do ...Put epsom salt in too and
sulfur powder if you have it ..through in a dandruff shampoo if you
have it ...a quarter cup of borax in a big jar 1 - 2 cups of moisturizer
cleanser ..whatever and scrub ...don't leave on too long though..

Hope that helps

Colleen
jammer

UK

#9 Jun 5, 2008
When i refer to a rash from permethrin its my understanding that the scabies rash is actually a allergic reaction to the mites and the stuff they leave behind rather than just the areas where they burrow, i beleive the permethrin can aggrevate this origional rash thus making new bumps appear rather than create a new rash, its very hard to dicern different rashes or allergys when your skin is in this state, i agree the new bumps should dissapear but they can take a long time.The fact is your suppossed to treat then leave it for 4-6 weeks for the symptoms to stop and its very true.

I've cured 3 cases of scabies so far and each time the permethrin kept me rashing There was allmost no difference in the scabies rash to the post scabies rash.

I also agree that not everyone on this forum is using permethrin, most are using a lot more permethrin,ivermectin,malation ,sulpher,cromatiton,e plus borax and a variety of other remedies and fair play if it helps them thats fine.But it may well not be, there all very strong on the skin and if you use them week after week the damage will be immense. Realistacally there couldnt be a bug alive to with stand that onslaught all i urge is caution thats all and thats through experiance.
hell with mites

Del Mar, CA

#10 Jun 5, 2008
agree, 99.9% of sarcoptic mites could not survive scabicide treatments or multiple scabicide treatments but the eggs are ofen spared... and... sadly the old school docs and literature instruct to treat neck down thus missing mites on the face and scalp. also reinfestation from untreated hosts and fomites is a big problem. So is this why many have to keep treating until there are none.

4 to 6 weeks is a long time to wait it out, especially if new bumps keep showing up longer than a week after treatment.
Sleepless

Willingboro, NJ

#11 Jun 6, 2008
I have noticed all week that the rash is more like red inflamed areas with small bumps that once scratched bleed a little and then dry up. This evening I got my first white itchy bump similar to what I had before treatment. I am going to do a second treatment tonight as it has been 7 days and I want to kill any baby scabies. I just hope it doesn't make my skin worse than this week. I have itched at night and late afternoon/evening, but I can sleep pretty much though the night now. My teenage son refuses to put the medicine on and I want everyone to be treated!

I am still waiting in the mail for the stuff for the cats and the sulfur cream I ordered.
Sleepless

Willingboro, NJ

#12 Jun 7, 2008
Change of plans...after putting some Permethrin cream on a small area my skin started to burn so I didn't apply it. It has been 7 full days since my oiginal application...still itching.
Welty

AOL

#13 Jun 7, 2008
My question is the difference between the generic and brand name Perm. My generic has HydroyTolulene as the PBO, so, it does not seem to cause itching for me. I wonder if the brand name Perm, may have Piberbutyl Oxide (sp)??? as the PBO. Maybe that is the difference between some posters experience with Perm????? Generic perm always gave me instant relief, but I think my problem was not using it again fast enough. I think for me the five day cycle was the best. I wish to hell perm killed eggs. Who can predict how fast they can hatch? I've gone back and forth on the five or seven day, pluses and minuses a bunch of times. The advantage to the five day plan is that fewer eggs will be laid. The advantage to the seven day plan is that you will get more of the original batch of adults and juniors, but you may get some far enough along to lay more eggs. What a dilema! Wish there was a magic number. Anyway, I decided the five day plan with gentle scrubs the few days after and sulfer would keep those juniors from burrowing. Surface mites are much easier to get rid of than eggs, and some OTC treatments actually do work on surface mites before burrowing, and well, nothing works on eggs. Except Lindane, which may be a wise thing to get for spot treating in limited spots. Anyway, a second treatment of Perm is essential anyway. NEVER believe that one dose is curative UNLESS you are lucky enough to know where you got them, and the day of your infection and can do your perm asap before you get a rash or pinpricks or crawlies. Perm doesn't kill eggs. Too bad. But I did wonder if the Generic is easier on the post itching than the brand perm?? It is certainly a lot cheaper. About $15 tube for generic, for enough for two treatments. A poll on this???
Sleepless

Willingboro, NJ

#14 Jun 8, 2008
It has been 8 days since my treatment...is it too late for me now? Have I lost the chance to get the scabies babies?
Victoria

Redwood Estates, CA

#16 Sep 22, 2009
I've had scabies from mid Jan to June. A very long time, many doctors kept saying it was one thing and then it was another. However i finally got Permeth 5%. I've used five creams of it. I've been taking Hydrocrozone (Pill form) and cream and I've been on Benadrill. for about two months, I have a new boyfriend and I haven't had any sex since Jan. Now I'm too scared to do much with my new boyfriend. He doesn't know about my condition, All my bumps are almost gone, on my body most of them are gone, my feet, a small part of my butt and stomach have tiny bumps (very small). Everyday they are getting smaller or disspearing. About three months ago I had a blisters on my hands and feet, they were very bad. I saw the skin doctor and he finally told me that I had scabies and gave me a bunch of creams and pills. I started right away and Cleaned my sleeping area, always washed my clothes with hot water and dried with high heat, I never worn the same clothes again. Never used the same towel. Cleaned everything.

Now I have minor itches on my feet, wrist, arm and sometimes my butt/leg area where the bumps are.

Like I said, I've used five creams and I'm on a lot of creams and medication. I want to be normal again and go off being with my new boyfriend but I'm scared. I dont ever want to pass it to someone else. My parents keeps telling me that they are gone and I'm okay because my mom slept on my bed and everything was okay, she's been checked and she's clean.

I got my scabies from my ex boyfriend and his family. I dont see him anymore.

I have one more cream...I haven't put it on because I dont know if I should put it on. Again I am scared to go all the way and infect someone just like ex did to me. the skin doctor I saw told me that if I get any new bumps to come back.

That was a month and a half, there isn't no new bumps.

My toes and feet still itches, also a bit of my chin and the side of my face still itches.

The doctor told me to put it from my eye level down to my toes. So I've done that, once I put it on my head because the bottom did say from head to toes.

I feel like I'm going insane because I've worried, I feel like I'm healed but then I'm not. I sleep good again but maybe i've just being too worried because I do itch from time to time. I also understand that I have had them for the longest time and it might take longer for me to heal...but still. Five creams and two months of using it and taking pills and other creams...

-sighs- I dont know what to think anymore. at least I'm not itching as much as I use to itch. I only itch like...six times (mainly it's my feet or face)

should I put on the sixth cream? and when will I be able to have sex again? or even live a normal life with human contact LOL.
Sly

United States

#17 Nov 24, 2009
K so my boyfriend and I both got infeted with scabies:( I went to the doctor and got the permeth cream, after me and my boyfriend both applied at same time. I felt like the scabies almost got worse:( now it has been about two weeks and I still itch and get ocasional new bumps. Does this mean that it didn't work? Should I get prescribed more? I have been very good about washing my laundry making sure I killed everything so I don't know if I got reinfested or If I just itching from side effects of the cream. And if it did work how long will it be till I am certain that it's gone at vise versa to see if I need to get more cream?
scared itching

Troy, MI

#18 Jan 7, 2010
zbut would you still feel the pin pricks even if you are cured?
jammer wrote:
Hiya well ive got rid of 4 separate cases of scabies that came from 4 completally separate sources,thats my history.
So first thing to realise is this board and many others are the very worst cases imho a lot of what you read on hear are people suffering with the post scabies and permethrin side effects im pretty sure 90% of the people on here are allready cured but because of side effects they just keep going a lot of people just dont seem to understand that if you keep pasting on heavy treatment after heavy treatment you wont ever stop itching.How will it stop if you dont??
Permethrin in my opinion releives for the first few days then the itching and rash comes back like mad this makes you think your infected again but for me its not,its the side effects of the treatment.
Sounds to me like the permethrin is the thing now causing your rash which is good.
Ive lived in 3 shared houses when ive had this and no one else has ever got it, as long as you dont have prolonged skin to skin contact with them its very easy not to pass it on especially if you wash a lot,i bath everytime i got back from work its not as contagious as people make it out to be your house is not covered in thousands of them.
As for your new bumps you have to realise that the rash you get from scabies is an allergic reaction to the debris of the scabies and doesnt mean that there is any bugs where the bumps are the only real way of confirming you have a reinfectation is if you find new burrows but ive only ever seen one so i dont bother looking.
The only way youll know your cured is to leave it a month see what happens dont get obssesed. hope this helps :)

Since: Mar 10

Avon, NY

#19 Mar 19, 2010
How are you now?

this forum is so helpful because everyone seems to be suffering from some type of mite. Mine's not recognizable, difficult to catch. I've been looking with a 70x scope, both reflected (best) and transmitted light. Found some which I photographed, but need an entomologist to look at them, and that's difficult to find. However, bites are there. Husband hasn't had a bite. Bites started in late Jan, 2010, and have just finished first 5% permethrin 14-hour cream treatment. Woke up itching more than usual. I'm working on trusting that this will work, not panicing, and am vacuuming, washing linens, clothes every day. thanks to everyone who writes. PS...anyone who's selling 'snake oil' products with lots of promise, no ingrediants listed, is hurting everyone who needs to be treated with what will most likely work.
Julie

Reading, MA

#20 May 14, 2010
I have treated with permethrin cream 3 times in the last month, and I am still itching. Is this normal? I haven't seen any bugs on me since my last treatment. I found the cause of the bugs, it was my hamster, he had a bunch of them on him, and all over his cage. He has since died, three days ago. Will I ever stop itching?? It's starting to make me lose my mind, I think everything is a bug. The bugs were so small, smaller than a speck of dirt, but whenever I had an itch, rather than scratching, I just inspected the area, and that is how I found a bug on me. I only found 3 total, one was in my belly button, one on my inner thigh, and one on my arm. I just can't stop scratching, and I wonder if I am still infected. I have taken all the steps to get rid of them, washing all sheets, towels, clothes, vacuuming bed, couch, everything. What else can I do, somebody please help me!!!
Response

Amstenrade, Netherlands

#21 May 14, 2010
The PFIZER TREATMENT PROTOCOL is published on page 5 of the Case Report thread.

You indicate correctly to be inFected, thus not any longer infeSted.
(thus you are with an F, not S!)

Treat yourself as being with a SECONDARY INFECTION with in particular staphylococcus aureus or staphylococcus epidermidis (maybe, a gram negative like E-coli)

(Lineage: MSSA/VSE, thus Not MRSA/VRE)

Effective treatment would be in the order of MRSA.
Attention: by treating yourself with the wrong type antibiotic, your symptoms actually may increase.

Follow the PFIZER Bleach Bath protocol. or use neutral classic ALKALIC rich soap bars. Theoretically you should combine this with 20% alcohol called ETHANOL.

Vodka!

If you combine product, than select on a so called surgical scrub.
This scrub should NOT be based on Chlorhexidine
Chlorhexidine proves RESISTANT.
Read the PFIZER BLEACH BATH PROTOCOL.

Also Dettol is NOT a good choice although DETTOL soap bars, may yield you great, instant and repeatable relieve.

If you are in Europe.
Consider to order Octenisan wash lotion.

Read more posts on the Case Report thread, for more tips and a better understanding what is happening to you and your family.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

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