Posted in the Scabies Forum
#1 Nov 29, 2006
I have tried everything and nothing has worked...I am ready to try ivermectin....my husband can buy this at the feed store--is it the same that a doctor would prescribe?
#2 Nov 29, 2006
no, it's formulated for a horse. anyone can buy it from a feed store. it's best to get a precription from you MD.
#3 Nov 30, 2006
There are many posts relating to this topic. You may want to look those over before making up your mind as to what you want to do.
In theory, the med formulated for horses has the same ingredients as the human med.(Looking at the Material Safety Data Sheet)
It is of course a much larger dose and the accuracy of dosing could not be done as precisely as with a pill which has a known precise amount of the drug.
The only question in my mind, whether veterinary drugs are manufactured under the same cleanlines and low contamination
standards as human drugs. I an guessing that they are, but no way for me to know.
In any case, seeing a doc is generally considered a good idea. Try to get a script for stromectol. It is not impossible.
#4 Nov 30, 2006
I still think the ivermectin manufactured by MERIAL and it's called IVOMEC is the best. This is a pure ivermectin. It is supposed to be administered subcutaneously, BUT you can take it ORALLY, just put it with some sweet orange soda. It is better than the horse paste and it worked better for me. I don't care what you guys say, but Merial is a reputable company. You take ORALLY 1 ml. per 110 pounds of body weight. I didn't know you had to take it on an empty stomach, but now I know this. But, don't take my word for it. Go to your MD and pay through the nose for one or 2 doses of ivermectin, if you can talk them into giving it to you. or pay $45 and get about 15 doses in a 50 ml bottle.
#5 Dec 1, 2006
Hmmm. Pure ivermectin? Plus some other stuff, I would prefer not to ingest. See for youself.
Please take a look at the msds ( Material Safety Data Sheet), which enumerates the ingredients.
With the Farnam product, at least it was formulated for oral use. It has Ivermectin + titanium dioxide. That's it.
Titanium dioxide is common in pills, that is the stuff that makes them white.
If you want to know what is in a product, te msds is a very good place to start. If the product does not have one, that is a really bad sign.
#6 Dec 1, 2006
say what you must. research what you must. post all the links you want. I STAND BY WHAT I SAY. And you can take that to the bank slomo.
#7 Dec 2, 2006
I am saying goodbye.
I may check back once in a while, but I will
not use this alias any more
(Do not post any more replies or questions
Thanks for all the tips and best wishes to you all.
#8 Dec 2, 2006
Sorry to hear you are moving on as you have been very informative and given me your time. Glad you learned some things.I think psychology is paramount here on this list.We may have physiological symptoms in common but we also share the emotional pain, frustrations,the feelings of being stigmatised,the wearing preoccupation with it all and also the realisation that the medical and pharmaceutical industries do not have any solid answers.Many of us have become distanced from colleagues, family, friends and pets to add to the distress. For some this forum is the only place where we can be ourselves, where names and appearances are not what matters. It should be a place where we can say what we need to and a place to share ideas, experiences and information. This includes an opportunity to voice shame,sadness and fear without fear of judgement. Sometimes people in pain do painful things and I bet we have all let out or projected our frustrations onto others.After all, scabies is a seriously life affecting and long term condition for some people.Unfortunately we live in a time when the medics and society have not yet been educated about the real issues surrounding scabies. Remember when diseases like hepatitis and HIV were feared so that people who had the conditions were rejected. Also leprosy was the classic disease with a stigma. Now its easy to detect and treat with cheap antibiotics.Scabies is not yet understood but one day it will be and treatment and support will be readily available. Until then it is up to people like us to do what we can to support each other. Thankyou for yours and good luck. I hope you feel able to return soon. Regards, Nina.
#9 Dec 2, 2006
I hope you are clear and free of mites. For some time now, I've been reading all your posts with great interest and learned a great deal from you, not only about mites either. You set an example for how people should be treated and respected.
Almost everyone, including myself has used these posts to vent, which is ok.
In your posts I see that your reason or purpose here is to help others.
Your responses are always fair, kind and compassionate. Your tolerance is never ending. Not only do you share experience and information, you go above and beyond and do research for other people, including myself.
Thanks Slomo for all your help and support, I'll be keeping a keen eye out for you.
#10 Dec 2, 2006
In case you didn't read the post on Scabies is Highly contagious explaining this. The "Go, Slomo Go" was suppose to be a Cheer. I can see how it could be taken another way. I hope this didn't contribute to your deciding to leave the posts. Don't go.
#11 Dec 4, 2006
I have found some info on Breast feeding and Ivermectin:
I am cutting and pasting because the db is subscription only. The gist of it it is considered generally safe for
breast feed babies. Only a small percentage (less than 2%) appears in the mother's milk..
You can get a trial sub for 2 weeks if you register
Here it goes:
" Mean ivermectin concentrations in the breast milk of 4 healthy women who had been given a standard dose of ivermectin were 14.13 nanograms/mL.1 It was felt that in view of this low concentration the precaution of excluding lactating mothers from ivermectin mass treatment programmes should be reconsidered. Some authorities have recommended that ivermectin should not be given to mothers who are breast feeding until the infant is at least one week old. The American Academy of Pediatrics states that, since no adverse effects have been seen in breast-fed infants whose mothers were receiving ivermectin, it may be considered to be usually compatible with breast feeding.2
Relevant medical / research articles:
1. 1. Ogbuokiri JE, et al. Ivermectin levels in human breast milk. Eur J Clin Pharmacol 1994; 46: 89–90. PubMed
2. 2. American Academy of Pediatrics. The transfer of drugs and other chemicals into human milk. Pediatrics 2001; 108: 776–89. PubMed Correction. ibid.; 1029.
#12 Dec 4, 2006
If you talked about some of the reasons why you are convinced of the correctness of your point, it could have gone something like this:
1) I have seen a vet giving the injectable orally to a cat, and, upon questioning, i have been assured this was OK.
This is a vet I trust.
2) Because the way the med is packaged, the dosage is a lot easier and safer than with the horse paste.
There, I have done it for you. Now, those are good points. You almost convinced me.
#13 Dec 5, 2006
For some reason, it works better. I have read in other forums that sometimes the paste doesn't work that good. I read where an animal died for one reason or other and when they autopsied the animal, the paste was still in its stomach, UNDIGESTED. I have read where posters have flat out said that the paste doesn't work on his horses. BUT I DO KNOW FROM EXPERIENCE THAT THE injectible works better. It's my experience. Yes, it's given to the animals orally, slomo. Just trust me on this one. You are not going to die. You are not going to vomit. You are not going to double over and hit the floor. What will happen is that you will wake up the next day, and you will feel the difference.
#14 Dec 5, 2006
Using an injectable Ivermectin that has been formulated to deliver the recommended dose when given either SC or IM, would not be effective given orally. If someone has information why using the injectable Ivermectin orally is just as effective, please post your stuff.
On another forum, some posters said they were giving the injectable Ivermectin orally to their dogs. These were not just your average pet owners, they are breeders. The dosage they used orally was the same dose given SC or IM.
#15 Dec 6, 2006
I have voiced some concern over using an injectable orally in another thread. The concern was twofold:
1) Are the preservatives and other additives, such as propylene glycol ok in the stomach?
2) Do these additives alter the P.O absorption rate and kinetics of the drug?
My concern came about when I read a toxicology study, where
giving doramectin in water, or in oil produced substantially different toxicity.
I felt I was already out on a limb taking a veterinary drug, and I did not want to have any additional unknowns thrown in. So, taking the ingredient plus one inert filler felt safer than taking 4 or 5 different additives.
Again, I could be convinced by someone who has a better understanding of the ingredients and their likely effect, but I am just playing it safe, excluding the complex in favor of the simple.
BTW. Mary posted something about the ivermetin paste sitting un-digested in the stomach of some dead animals. That is not surprising, as the carrier, titanium dioxide is inert, and non-digestible. It is like chalk. The active ingredient still gets absorbed. ;-)
#16 Dec 7, 2006
Article includes info on topical dosage for Avermectins.
500kg body weigh vs. 200kg oral
http://188.8.131.52/search?q=c ache:eWR6eo_5BrYJ:www.vf.uni-l j.si/veterina/zbornik/SlovVetR es_43_(2)_pp85-96.pdf+doramect in+use+on+dogs&hl=en&g l=us&ct=clnk&cd=41
#17 Dec 7, 2006
Thanks for posting this link. The link was not clickable, but cutting and pasting it from the quoted message worked.
Something really interesting transpires:
The mites get paralized almost immediatley, so they stop feeding and laying eggs. However, they do not die until some days later.
This would explain the almost instantaneous reliev of itchnig, followed days later, by some possible new erruptions and worsening of symptoms. I and others have interpreted the latter in the past as a treatment failure.
(IMO a portion of the itching is caused by the mite's activity, such as their feeding and moving around).
I am at a loss explaining why the higher dose with the topical. I am thinking concentration almost does not matter, as long as the total amount of cream (and thus the total amount of drug absorbed) is carefully controlled over time.
I presume that the dosing would have to be based on the total amount of topical used in 24 hours, and the same treatment precautions would have to be then used as in the oral application.( I.e. no more frequently than 5 days)
This is no medical advice, I am just thinking out loud.
My thought process is usually unreliable and rickety. You , on the other hand, should base all your healthcare decisions on the advice of a competent and licensed medical professional, whatever this means in your particular circumstances.
#18 Dec 10, 2006
I have looked on the threads and was wondering...are you cured from scabies or are you still battling? Are you on here as a voice of reason or fellow sufferer? Just checking....
#19 Dec 16, 2006
Where can you buy (online) this Ivomec?
I've used the paste liberally in the past - it works well for me, but always willing to try something new!
I've long ago foregone any misgivings about side effects of scabies drugs....10 years of scabies, on and off, and you'll understand.
I don't even bother with the medical Permethrin - straight to the Permethrin 10 for me - you can buy a quart for about the same price as a 1 oz tube, not even counting the doctor's bill :)
#20 Dec 16, 2006
Actually I am the voice of paranoia.
I have been cured for a while now. It took too many rounds of Ivermectin ( something like 6 or 7), and Benzyl benzoate topical. I had it in the past and 2 rounds of Iver did the trick then.
I think I may have been keep getting reinfected at work or from a friend of mine who I see usually once a week.
It is not exatly an easy topic to bring up. Like "Hey buddy I notice you are scrathing a lot"
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