Straight burrows - photo

Straight burrows - photo

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itchy and scratchy

Auckland, New Zealand

#1 Dec 18, 2006
For anyone who hasn't seen them here is a photo of straight burrows. They are on the inside of my wrist, and the burrows are to the left of the red lines. The two short ones are around 1mm across by 10-15mm long while the long one (which is harder to make out) is about 0.5mm across by 60-70mm long.

http://i14.tinypic.com/4372jvd.jpg

(following embedded link may not work)
[IMG]http://i14.tinypic.com/43 72jvd.jpg[/IMG]
slomo

Assonet, MA

#2 Dec 18, 2006
Thanks for posting the pic.
Very strange. Does not look like any symptoms I ever had of seen.
I wonder: if you do the magic marker test, does it show up as a highlighted black line?
(I.e does the ink enter the burrow?)

These lines look more like a very thin line of scar tissue.
If it is not a hollow channel, but a line of scar tissue, it will not turn into a black line when you paint over it w a marker. I hate to ask all these questions, but:

I do not see any redness, or in general, allergic reaction.
If these are burrows made by a female mite, the long one would have had to take at least a month to make. In that time, the female lays at least 30 eggs, so the burrow would be full of allergens. I would expect to see an itchy, nodular rash, with the burrow on top of it.

Are these itchy or painful? Do you have any other skin irritation ?
Maybe yo do not have an immune reaction to the mites. But then you would have crusted scabies, which you do not.

This could be some other parasite, but I do not know enough of the various other skin conditions to really tell.

Ivermectin is wide spectrum, so if it alleviates the symptoms, that in itself is not necessarily indicative of Mites.

I apologize for all the questions..I am trying to make some sense of what you are showing me and I cannot.

I would definitely want to show this to a skin doctor. The symptom is undeniably there.

Since: Dec 06

Auckland, New Zealand

#3 Dec 18, 2006
Thanks for the reply.

I will try and do the magic marker when I get some rubbing alcohol.

No there is no redness or allergic reaction at all. As I have stated before I have never experienced the rash associated with scabies either. My thinking is that for whatever reason my skin is very tolerant to this sort of thing.

They are not itchy or painful at all. I do get generalised itching typically at night and usually on my back. I also get the crawling sensations on my legs and in my scalp.

Ivermectin does not make a noticeable difference however my symptoms are relatively minor so it is harder to notice any change.

One other thought that just occurred to me - The typical zig zag burrow is formed when the mite changes direction after laying an egg. Maybe the mites inside these burrows is for whatever reason not laying eggs (I have not seen any) and this is why the line is a continual straight one.
Mary

United States

#4 Dec 19, 2006
Thanks for the picture. Very cool of you to show us. I see that slomo jumped on that, like white on rice. smiling. hi slomo. post some more for us. what a long burrow, wow!! are you sure you didn't slash your wrists, way back when you first found out you had mites? jk..
itchy and scratchy wrote:
For anyone who hasn't seen them here is a photo of straight burrows. They are on the inside of my wrist, and the burrows are to the left of the red lines. The two short ones are around 1mm across by 10-15mm long while the long one (which is harder to make out) is about 0.5mm across by 60-70mm long.
http://i14.tinypic.com/4372jvd.jpg
(following embedded link may not work)
[IMG]http://i14.tinypic.com/43 72jvd.jpg[/IMG]
slomo

Assonet, MA

#5 Dec 19, 2006
itchy and scratchy wrote:
I will try and do the magic marker when I get some rubbing alcohol...
.... my skin is very tolerant to this sort of thing.

One other thought that just occurred to me - The typical zig zag burrow is formed when the mite changes direction after laying an egg. Maybe the mites inside these burrows is for whatever reason not laying eggs (I have not seen any) and this is why the line is a continual straight one.
You do not need rubbing alcohol. Just use a gel hand sanitizer lotion to wipe it off. Readily available at drugstores.

If your mites reached enlightenment, and sworn off reproduction, the condition would be obviously self-limiting. No eggs, no sustained infection.

Over time, you get more sensitized, not less.( Unless your immune response is suppressed.. Do you use topical steroids , eg cortisone regularly?)

Applying Occam's razor, and paraphrasing the famuos duck metaphor: Does not walk or quack like a duck. Maybe it is not a duck.

Perhaps some zoonotic subcutaneous filaria? Totally out of my scope of experience and knowledge. Those should react well to Ivermectin, and you should get some Herxheimer type reaction (allergic reactions due to breaking up parasites)..

Again, a dermatologist.. If the one you go to is unfamiliar, He/se should refer you further until you find someone who can diagnose this. Does not look like scabies to me.

But you seem to resist this option. It would be interesting to know, if a doctor has ever seen this and what was the explanation/diagnosis?

Others. pleae chime in: does anyone else has similar symptoms?
Been There

United States

#6 Dec 19, 2006
Nope,

does not look like scabies, maybe scar tissue
Scabies Fan

Odessa, Ukraine

#7 Dec 19, 2006
I've seen different symptoms over the years, so hesitate to say its not scabies - but the lack of redness, and the width (a little wide)- doesn't look like scabies.

The crawling sensations - now, that sounds like scabies!

Would definitely be worth a dermatologist visit.

Since: Dec 06

Auckland, New Zealand

#8 Dec 20, 2006
OK so this afternoon I have been to a dermatologist.

He agreed with a couple of the posters here - the lines are scar tissue and not burrows.

He was adamant that I do not have scabies, and that my skin is sensitive(possibly 'itchy red bump disease') which is why I am feeling the crawling, pin pricks and general itchiness.

He also said the treatments I had done had not been successful because what I was trying too treat was not scabies.

Now that the lines/burrows have been removed from the equation, I have no physical evidence of scabies(or any other mite).

While I do want to believe I have neither scabies nor anything else, there is one aspect of it which makes me wary. During the more than two years since I initailly started to get itchy, I have been exposed to several people who have exhibited the same itchiness, and several of them a rash.

- original flat where the itchiness started, at least half of the people were getting itchiness, including one person who got it soon after moving in. One person that I know of in this flat got a rash on the inside of his thighs which was extremely itchy.

- another flat where 3 out of 5 people had an itchy rash

- a girl that I was involved with who a few weeks after we met developed itchy red bumps in her pubic region

The only way I could explain these would be that I am one of the people that the mites do not like, and while people in each flat had scabies (me and one other person had been in both flats), they stayed away from me while others were infected.

However this does not really fit in with the last case.
this sucks

Courtland, CA

#9 Dec 20, 2006
itchy and scratchy - have you guys checked for bed bugs? They are on the rise and can be difficult to find. Google bed bugs and let us know what you think because I am very interested in whether there are some people who can have scabies but not show the typical symptoms. Did any of the roommates get a positive diagnosis for scabies?
slomo

Assonet, MA

#10 Dec 20, 2006
itchy and scratchy wrote:
OK so this afternoon I have been to a dermatologist.
He agreed with a couple of the posters here - the lines are scar tissue and not burrows.
Hey there.

Congrats on seeing a doctor. On those greyish lines..
These do appear and grow, yes? I.e they are not static, and always there. Let's go with scar tissue. OK.
Caused by what?

If I was in your place, I would want the doc to explain to me how those come about or refer me to someone who can.

Re: the story of the apartment and assorted itchy friends...perhaps this was a scabies outbreak at that time, but steadfast treatment took care of it and it is no longer.
slomo

Assonet, MA

#11 Dec 20, 2006
this sucks wrote:
itchy and scratchy - have you guys checked for bed bugs? They are on the rise and can be difficult to find. Google bed bugs and let us know what you think because I am very interested in whether there are some people who can have scabies but not show the typical symptoms. Did any of the roommates get a positive diagnosis for scabies?
In my checkered past, I had an encounter with bedbugs in Russia out of all places.

They are pretty big. They come out att nite, climb up on the ceiling and drop down on you. They are blood suckers and love to bite you on or near the joints. The sensation is one of a kind. Sort of an intense, sudden burning itch, like someone is puttin out a cigarette on your skin. It wakes you up, and you see a pretty good size, possibly bleeding bite.
With a little luck, you may see them scamper and hide in the cracks and crevices (they are light averse).

We used dust ourselves and the bed linens with permethrin powder.

Since: Dec 06

Auckland, New Zealand

#12 Dec 20, 2006
slomo wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey there.
Congrats on seeing a doctor. On those greyish lines..
These do appear and grow, yes? I.e they are not static, and always there. Let's go with scar tissue. OK.
Caused by what?
If I was in your place, I would want the doc to explain to me how those come about or refer me to someone who can.
Re: the story of the apartment and assorted itchy friends...perhaps this was a scabies outbreak at that time, but steadfast treatment took care of it and it is no longer.
I don't think the lines grow. I just tend to notice them however I haven't noticed any new ones for quite some time. I may have just been discovering the ones that were already there. He didn't provide an explanation for what would cause them, nor did I ask. At $180 a time, I don't think I will be going back unless I really have to.

He kind of said the same thing, that I may have had scabies at the beginning but got rid of it. The problem is, the treatment was anything but thorough, ie at the first house there were at least 10 flatmates(very large house), and at no point did every single one of them do the treatment at the same time. 2 people never did it at all. The cleaning regime was not thorough or coordinated either.

I do know from that, that if that wasn't scabies and the occupants of a house like that(there are many in London) did get it for real, is that it would be all but impossible to get rid of it.

Since: Dec 06

Auckland, New Zealand

#13 Dec 20, 2006
this sucks wrote:
itchy and scratchy - have you guys checked for bed bugs? They are on the rise and can be difficult to find. Google bed bugs and let us know what you think because I am very interested in whether there are some people who can have scabies but not show the typical symptoms. Did any of the roommates get a positive diagnosis for scabies?
I'm pretty sure I don't have bed bugs.

I am of the opinion that people can have scabies without symptoms. Without sounding delusional, I think there is at least a possibility I am one of those people.
slomo

Assonet, MA

#14 Dec 20, 2006
itchy and scratchy wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm pretty sure I don't have bed bugs.
I am of the opinion that people can have scabies without symptoms. Without sounding delusional, I think there is at least a possibility I am one of those people.
Well, if you did not have any reaction, the mites could multiply un-checked, and you would end up with a very large number of them (i.e crusted scabies). The allergic reaction
is part of your body's defense against the invader. your body makes some anti-bodies that the mites ingest as they feed, and this is part of the reason why the typical (non-crusted) patient only has maybe up to 20 mites, and not millions like a crusted patient.

Immunocompromised patients or people with a genetic flaw who do not have an allergic reaction, do get an out-of-control infestation but usually do not have itching and redness).
So it is hard to come up with some theory that would allow the missing allergic reaction, but somehow could explain why the mite population does not multiply unchecked.

Just my $0.05

I do not believe there has ever been a documented case of a person having scabies and no symptoms.
Scabies Fan

Odessa, Ukraine

#15 Dec 21, 2006
I don't think anyone would have an unchecked case of scabies, with no symptoms of any kind - like you said, it would get out of control pretty quick.

However - it may certainly be possible that there are certain people (with certain skin types, blood types, scent types???) that the mites aren't attracted to - such that they may 'climb on', then 'climb off' before doing any serious biting, and no laying of eggs.

Such a person would likey have no symptoms, but would spread the mites...

If anyone every figures out what exactly it is the scabies don't like, let me know. I'm also a businessman, and I see millions in the making!
slomo

Assonet, MA

#16 Dec 21, 2006
Scabies Fan wrote:
it may certainly be possible that there are certain people (with certain skin types, blood types, scent types???) that the mites aren't attracted to - such that they may 'climb on', then 'climb off' before doing any serious biting, and no laying of eggs.
Such a person would likey have no symptoms, but would spread the mites...
This is exactly how it is supposed to work with cross-species mites. Like S. Scabei var Canis on humans. Causes some symptoms, but it is self-limiting. The mites do not complete their life cycle, so they go away in a few weeks.
Some people will argue with me, and will insist that dog/rat/bird/reptile mites happily live on humans. Do not bother, I am just telling you what I read.
Scabies Fan

Odessa, Ukraine

#17 Dec 21, 2006
What are the chances rat mites eat scabies mites - or otherwise duke it out with them?

If this were the case, we could self-infect ourselves with rat mites, which would then fend of the scabies mites!

Business plan #1 - sell bottles of 'rate mites'.
Been There

United States

#18 Dec 21, 2006
slomo wrote:
<quoted text>
This is exactly how it is supposed to work with cross-species mites. Like S. Scabei var Canis on humans. Causes some symptoms, but it is self-limiting. The mites do not complete their life cycle, so they go away in a few weeks.
Some people will argue with me, and will insist that dog/rat/bird/reptile mites happily live on humans. Do not bother, I am just telling you what I read.
Holiday wish.
Go away from me you rotton dog, cat, rat or whatever type of mites you are, literature says your supposed to. If your human mites, go away from my dog! It's been 9 months, you good for nothing Things That Wouldn't Leave.
itching too

Houston, TX

#19 Feb 7, 2007
I think that itchy and scratchy and all his flat mates sound like they had (or have) SOME kind of mite. Besides the burrows (I think they ARE burrows), he does have symptoms - the itching on back and head and crawling sensations. Lucky for him that it isn't so intense of itching. I have similar looking straight burrows on my hands (which appeared same time as the rash/infestation - my dermatologist ALSO tried to tell me they were scars), plus rashy bumps all over (including my head and behind ears and in ears, nose, eyelashes, back, elbows, ankles, hands etc.) I am 90% sure that it is a follicle mite from a stray cat (the cat's now gone but meantime both me and my cat got it). I have had it for 6 months and tried 3 rounds of ivermectin and tons of sulfur to no avail. I haven't slept more than 4-5 hours a night for 6 months now because it itches so much that it is painful!
itcharoo

United States

#20 Apr 30, 2007
Moved into a condo in Tustin Ranch California with my 11 year old daughter. Soon after we both got pneumonia. Then we felt like sometimes something was jumping on our legs when we stood by the kitchen or bathroom counters. Pretty soon we were both itch and feeling like something was in our hair/privates. We have noticed many, many little white and shiny silver, small as a period things in our clothes, on us, around the house. When we are sitting on anything dark or wearing dark clothes we see them showing up. They do not seem to move unless touched and then some jump about 1/4 inch but otherwise nothing. We are wondering if it could be fiberglass from the A/C rather than mites, but I will wash, dry, put on clean clothes and still find many, many on me later. We both have waht appears to be little bites all over us. Dermatologist says allergic reaction but now after we eat something we both feel sick for a while. This sucks. Anyone have any ideas?

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