Post permethrin reaction or actually ...

Post permethrin reaction or actually scabies?

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Rashman

Chicago, IL

#1 Feb 14, 2008
Hi all, my first time here.

In mid Decebmer I used permethrin for a different kind of infestation in my pubic region (yes, crabs), but only the 1%. I used it two days in a row, the first day only around my groin, but the second day i repeated and went a little higher up onto my stomach a bit because I spotted a couple buggers there. I saw a doctor the day after doing the second treatment and she told me to do a repeat treatment a week later, so I did that, around my groin, my stomach and chest, and i think on my upper legs too, and also shaved the hair on my legs and pubes and waistline. In all, three treatments in a week on my pubic area, and the second two treatments I went up on my chest like I said, with maybe a couple spots treatments, if i recall.

A week or two later I have a horrible, ITCHY red rash above the base of my penis, which has just now finally shown signs of improvement this last week, now a month and a half later. I've seen a couple doctors, and while no tests were done, they weren't entirely sure what it was from, but both wanted to treat it as scabies. It seemed neither was sure if it was scabies or was a reaction to the permethrin, but I thought it highly unlikely that a week or so after treating for crabs, I get a scabies looking rash in the exact same place that I treated with the permethrin. I did have some red spots on my stomach when I was at the doctor, but they couldn't find any burrow marks, neither have I. I ended up doing one treatment with 5% permethrin after visiting the second doctor, because I was worried and found it convincing that two doctors thought the same thing. The morning after using the cream I felt pretty good, but the itching came back and the redness really never abated.

What kind of symptoms did you have while the post permethrin was still in your system? I don't really itch much, almost never at night either (I usually sleeep just fine), but I have a tingling, almost stinging sensation sometimes, as if my clothes are rubbing against something on my skin. If I get red spots, they usually only last a day or two. I had a couple days at work where I felt what you guys call the 'crawlies' on my face, but that stopped. The rash now looks as good as it's ever looked, and it no longer itches. The only thing I feel is this tingling, or stinging sensation, but it's usually only when I'm up and moving about, especially at work. If I'm at home and relaxing I don't feel it. Oh, and hot showers don't make me feel tingly (I actually love them), and I've never once felt a change when I go to bed, let alone feel like I'm ever going to lose any sleep because of any itching.

What do you guys think? From what you guys say it's hard to discern between post scabies (or I guess in my case I've never had scabies but did use permethrin a fair bit) and actual scabies infestation.

My best to all of you, and thanks for any input.
Scabies3

Deerfield Beach, FL

#2 Feb 14, 2008
Rashman wrote:
Hi all, my first time here.
In mid Decebmer I used permethrin for a different kind of infestation in my pubic region (yes, crabs), but only the 1%. I used it two days in a row, the first day only around my groin, but the second day i repeated and went a little higher up onto my stomach a bit because I spotted a couple buggers there. I saw a doctor the day after doing the second treatment and she told me to do a repeat treatment a week later, so I did that, around my groin, my stomach and chest, and i think on my upper legs too, and also shaved the hair on my legs and pubes and waistline. In all, three treatments in a week on my pubic area, and the second two treatments I went up on my chest like I said, with maybe a couple spots treatments, if i recall.
A week or two later I have a horrible, ITCHY red rash above the base of my penis, which has just now finally shown signs of improvement this last week, now a month and a half later. I've seen a couple doctors, and while no tests were done, they weren't entirely sure what it was from, but both wanted to treat it as scabies. It seemed neither was sure if it was scabies or was a reaction to the permethrin, but I thought it highly unlikely that a week or so after treating for crabs, I get a scabies looking rash in the exact same place that I treated with the permethrin. I did have some red spots on my stomach when I was at the doctor, but they couldn't find any burrow marks, neither have I. I ended up doing one treatment with 5% permethrin after visiting the second doctor, because I was worried and found it convincing that two doctors thought the same thing. The morning after using the cream I felt pretty good, but the itching came back and the redness really never abated.
What kind of symptoms did you have while the post permethrin was still in your system? I don't really itch much, almost never at night either (I usually sleeep just fine), but I have a tingling, almost stinging sensation sometimes, as if my clothes are rubbing against something on my skin. If I get red spots, they usually only last a day or two. I had a couple days at work where I felt what you guys call the 'crawlies' on my face, but that stopped. The rash now looks as good as it's ever looked, and it no longer itches. The only thing I feel is this tingling, or stinging sensation, but it's usually only when I'm up and moving about, especially at work. If I'm at home and relaxing I don't feel it. Oh, and hot showers don't make me feel tingly (I actually love them), and I've never once felt a change when I go to bed, let alone feel like I'm ever going to lose any sleep because of any itching.
What do you guys think? From what you guys say it's hard to discern between post scabies (or I guess in my case I've never had scabies but did use permethrin a fair bit) and actual scabies infestation.
My best to all of you, and thanks for any input.
something could be going on at your work; maybe that is where you are picking up these things.
Rashman

Chicago, IL

#3 Feb 15, 2008
I have no idea where I got the crabs, but it's essentially considered an std, so that's my guess. The prickliness and stinging at work I can't really explain. I'm very active at work, and I still feel the symptoms occasionally when I'm walking around town, especially after leaving work until I get home and relax. But the past few days those symptoms have been much less noticeable at work.
THS

Houston, TX

#4 Feb 17, 2008
I was diagnosed with scabies (although the doctor ran no serious tests, this is assumed because I had exposure to it). I used 1% permethrin, which supposedly should at least neutralise the rashes within a few days. I went from being in the very early stages of scabies with just a few marks on my arms to having red rashes all over my body, except for my legs. What's more, I could not breath comfortably for the first couple days after I applied the treatment. So I am not sure about permethrin either.
Mite Killer

United States

#5 Feb 17, 2008
THS wrote:
I was diagnosed with scabies (although the doctor ran no serious tests, this is assumed because I had exposure to it). I used 1% permethrin, which supposedly should at least neutralise the rashes within a few days. I went from being in the very early stages of scabies with just a few marks on my arms to having red rashes all over my body, except for my legs. What's more, I could not breath comfortably for the first couple days after I applied the treatment. So I am not sure about permethrin either.
If your MD diagnosed scabies told you to use OTC permethrin 1% you should call the office and find out what the hell is going on. 1% kills lice(unless resistant) but it sure won't kill sarcoptic mites. Go the CDC website for scabies and lice treatments.
Rashman

Chicago, IL

#6 Feb 18, 2008
THS, were you just recently diagnosed? What ever became of the scabies, if you think you actually had them? My rashes are still confined to the areas that I used the 1% permethrin for the crabs, i.e. crotch and on stomach. The pubic rash has really improved since the onset, and the rashes, or spots I should say, are less frequent and seem to disappear quickly. Even though did the 5% all over my body when the doctors told me I had scabies, I still never get any spots or rashes on my extremities or back.
Mangy Dog

Southwest Brevard Cnty, FL

#7 Mar 21, 2008
Rashman wrote:
Hi all, my first time here.
In mid Decebmer I used permethrin for a different kind of infestation in my pubic region (yes, crabs), but only the 1%. I used it two days in a row, the first day only around my groin, but the second day i repeated and went a little higher up onto my stomach a bit because I spotted a couple buggers there. I saw a doctor the day after doing the second treatment and she told me to do a repeat treatment a week later, so I did that, around my groin, my stomach and chest, and i think on my upper legs too, and also shaved the hair on my legs and pubes and waistline. In all, three treatments in a week on my pubic area, and the second two treatments I went up on my chest like I said, with maybe a couple spots treatments, if i recall.
A week or two later I have a horrible, ITCHY red rash above the base of my penis, which has just now finally shown signs of improvement this last week, now a month and a half later. I've seen a couple doctors, and while no tests were done, they weren't entirely sure what it was from, but both wanted to treat it as scabies. It seemed neither was sure if it was scabies or was a reaction to the permethrin, but I thought it highly unlikely that a week or so after treating for crabs, I get a scabies looking rash in the exact same place that I treated with the permethrin. I did have some red spots on my stomach when I was at the doctor, but they couldn't find any burrow marks, neither have I. I ended up doing one treatment with 5% permethrin after visiting the second doctor, because I was worried and found it convincing that two doctors thought the same thing. The morning after using the cream I felt pretty good, but the itching came back and the redness really never abated.
What kind of symptoms did you have while the post permethrin was still in your system? I don't really itch much, almost never at night either (I usually sleeep just fine), but I have a tingling, almost stinging sensation sometimes, as if my clothes are rubbing against something on my skin. If I get red spots, they usually only last a day or two. I had a couple days at work where I felt what you guys call the 'crawlies' on my face, but that stopped. The rash now looks as good as it's ever looked, and it no longer itches. The only thing I feel is this tingling, or stinging sensation, but it's usually only when I'm up and moving about, especially at work. If I'm at home and relaxing I don't feel it. Oh, and hot showers don't make me feel tingly (I actually love them), and I've never once felt a change when I go to bed, let alone feel like I'm ever going to lose any sleep because of any itching.
What do you guys think? From what you guys say it's hard to discern between post scabies (or I guess in my case I've never had scabies but did use permethrin a fair bit) and actual scabies infestation.
My best to all of you, and thanks for any input.
It's hard to say whether you have scabies or not. Some people are more symptomatic than others. Your Dr could do a scrape to find out.
My personal experience with "crawlies";
larvae or mites traveling feels like something small crawling across my skin,
excessive permethrin makes my skin feel tingly
The sensations feel different. Of course, I'm judging by circumstantial evidence. Crawlies often precede "bites, whereas tinglies happen after dousing myself with a ridiculous amount of bugkiller.
Rashman

United States

#8 Mar 24, 2008
Yeah, I have no idea what's going on. Of course I want to be on the side that doesn't think I have scabies, and sometimes I think reading on this forum has put a lot of things into my head.

I went to the dermatologist this week for him to look at what was left of the rash that the doctors looked at in January (after treating for crabs). He said there was no evidence of scabies, and gave me a topical that should take care of the rash. I've yet to get the topical from pharmacy (I'm a little on edge about using something there), but it was nice to hear that he didn't think I had ever had scabies. I told him what I wrote above and he diagnosed it as contact dermatitis.
DERM PA

College Station, TX

#9 Jul 20, 2008
contact dermatitis has many signs and symptoms. It is highly likely that the doctor mis-diagnosed you due to lack of blisters to get a scrape sample.Scabies is one form of contact dermatitis that can't be healed with simple steroid packs such as prednisone. Permethrin 5% should definitely take care of your problem, but it seems that the problems you are getting are what we call post-treatment symptoms usually caused by the permethrin itself. They should subside in time.
Mites have no Rights

United States

#10 Jul 21, 2008
I must have used 14 tubes of permethrin 5% and I never got a rash from it.

according to the FDA.........

ADVERSE REACTIONS:
In clinical trials, generally mild and transient burning and stinging followed application with Elimite®(permethrin) 5% Cream in 10% of patients and was associated with the severity of infestation. Pruritus was reported in 7% of patients at various times post-application. Erythema, numbness, tingling, and rash were reported in 1 to 2% or less of patients (see PRECAUTIONS: General). Other adverse events reported since marketing Elimite®(permethrin) 5% Cream include: headache, fever, dizziness, abdominal pain, diarrhea and nausea and/or vomiting. Although extremely uncommon and not expected when used as directed (see DOSAGE AND ADMINISTRATION), rare occurrences of seizure have been reported. None have been medically confirmed as associated with Elimite® treatment.
Sam

United States

#11 Jul 21, 2008
DERM PA wrote:
contact dermatitis has many signs and symptoms. It is highly likely that the doctor mis-diagnosed you due to lack of blisters to get a scrape sample.Scabies is one form of contact dermatitis that can't be healed with simple steroid packs such as prednisone. Permethrin 5% should definitely take care of your problem, but it seems that the problems you are getting are what we call post-treatment symptoms usually caused by the permethrin itself. They should subside in time.
Please take a look at the hundreds of people on this forum who were definitely not cured with 1 or 2 doses of permethrin 5%. I also never got a rash from the perm.
Welty

AOL

#12 Jul 22, 2008
Look up Folliculitis. It's a common complication of shaving, yes, even there. It's a staph infection in the hair follicles. It is a common complication of scabies and I imagine the same thing about biting lice. Since these bumps are not appearing in new places, I think you have this common complication, which has the same exact symptoms as scabies. This stuff is also called barber's itch as shaving lets bacteria in if it's around into the Lice bites. A. Stop shaving there. B. Get some Dial antibacterial soap and use this to wash with. C. Get an OTC tube of an atibiotic ointment and apply it. If this improves it, give it two full days, you're golden. Also, don't use this anitibiotic ointment for longer than a week. If it hasn't killed it in a week or improved it a whole lot, then you either need to see a dermatogogist for some better antibiotics or you did have scabies and crabs. Unlikely. Also, in case it's a fungal complication, you can try Nizoral shampoo and use it in this region. It's an antifungal shampoo as a body wash.
Perm can give some people a rash from contact dermatitus. And some people are actually really allergic to Chrysamthums, the flower Perm is made from, and that can also cause breathing difficulties. If you have chest tightness from it, don't use Perm again. Ever.
Some health food remedies for Folliculitis. Colloidal Silver. It's a liquid silver,$20 for 30ml, but that should last for a year or more. It's handy for any bites, nicks, sore throats as a gargle, etc. It's super gentle and nature's antibacterial. You can even use this on mucus membranes.(I'd go the OTC antibacterial route first.) Then, be kind and replace some good bacteria in this area. Yes, it's with yogurt (with live cultures) applied topically. It really stops the itch, and it supplies good bacteria to fight the bad bacteria. It rebalances the acid mantle your skin needs to repair itself and feels good by the next day usually, if not giving immediate itch relief the second it's fully dry. I'd use the Dial soap and OTC bacitracin for three days to see if you're going in the right direction. Or antibacterial soap plus yogurt afterward and see if you even need the OTC antibiotic ointment. You need to replace the good bacteria as much as getting rid of the bad. No matter what, when you're done use the yogurt at least once. Then rinse later. You can do it at nightime. It is a wonder drug for skin infections. It even is a weak scabicide, as Lactic acid kills surface mites. It's messy, but hey, it's concealed. I don't think you have scabies. If they were popping up in new places, away from this general area, I'd be more suspicious. I think it's more than a Perm rash though, and you do want to jump on any infections in any lice or scabies bites.
Welty

AOL

#13 Jul 22, 2008
p.s. I don't think the shaving gave you the rash to begin with, but are secondary to folliculitis in your lice bites, and now those shaved places have it too as staph gets into any skin opening. It's just my opinion that you have more than a perm rash, but don't think you'd have both scabies and crabs. Are you sure you had crabs? It's more possible that you had scabies instead of crabs. If you never had crabs, but rather scabies, then you could still have them because they are hard to beat. Hope not, but give the antibotic route a two day trial and if it's not improving, see a Doctor. I'd make the appointment now, and see him in two days if not better, because you can cancel an appointment 24 hours ahead. But it sounds like more than a perm rash. I've never had a perm rash myself.
Stop biting

Maastricht, Netherlands

#14 Jul 27, 2008
Your Insect Bite Might be Staph
http://time.blogs.com/daily_rx/2006/08/your_i...

Microbiology of Secondary Bacterial Infection
in Scabies Lesions
http://jcm.asm.org/cgi/reprint/33/8/2139.pdf

Bacteria that Bite
http://www.uthscsa.edu/mission/article.asp...

http://edition.cnn.com/HEALTH/library/DS/0073...
MRSA infection

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns...
Superbug strain hits the healthy

PROMISING treatment option with daily penetration with three minutes Octenisan.

Octenidine dihydrochloride
A new topical antimicrobial for local treatment of skin,
mucous membranes and wounds
http://www.uk.schulke-mayr.com/documents/octe...

For more information about this ongoing epidemic
please connect to www.silentsuperbug.com
read please

Falmouth, ME

#16 Aug 18, 2009
I have had scabies before 3 years ago. I thought I had it again....permitherin treatments 5 times now, nothing is working, tea tree oil hot showers etc.....3 months later, FOUND A BED BUG CRAWLING OVER ME LAST NIGHT>.....made the EXACT same bites marks as scabies...some in a line, a c or s shape. Same symptoms, itch more at night(they feed at night), bites last itchy for 3 weeks. Please. If you are taking permitherin over and over, check under your mattress in cracks, etc. I never thought I could have bed bugs, I am a clean freak! I HOPE THIS HELPS SO MANY PEOPLE WHO DON"T ACTUALLY HAVE SCABIES. I was about to kill someone who wrote "treatment generally works after one dose"
read please

Falmouth, ME

#17 Aug 18, 2009
ps. the transmition on these could be a visit from an itchy relative, where that "HUG" just doesn't seem like it would be long skin to skin contact.

They travel on luggage, items etc.

They can bite pets.

go to Bed-bugs.info to see what they look like and a pic of one rash.
inaquandary

San Francisco, CA

#18 Feb 5, 2010
hi, after hearing someone i slept with in early november was treated for crabs, i finally developed a rash in early january on my belly. i used nix (on wet skin, so probably not as effective as it could have been), then got 5% permethrin from my doctor, who wasn't sure what it was. over the next month, i used permethrin multiple times, but not on my entire body - just the groin, belly, chest and head. also used Rid, as my doctor basically gave up and referred me to a dermatologist who gave me topical steroid/antibiotic foams. i continued to get a rash on the skin under my beard, parts of my chest and thighs. the itching isn't bad at night, but it peaks at about 2pm in the afternoon, usually at work, when my body is warm. i drive home in despair, hop in the shower and it calms things down. the second dermatologist examined me and said she didn't think there was an infestation, that i should stop all permethrin and Rid, and use a steroidal gel she prescribed along with antihistamines. i've been washing everything i wear or sleep on daily, and have bleached my flat several times. i'm wary of not using permethrin, since the area under the beard and parts of the chest that broke out is new. could it be that i'm just reacting to a month of heavy-duty use of this stuff, and that the crabs - if there ever were any, because i never saw a crab, just the rash - are long gone?
frustrated

Stamford, CT

#19 Feb 8, 2010
I used permethrin 5% cream twices on my groin, 7 days apart. this was about 5 weeks ago. it worked, but now i have stinging on my groin area that does not go away.its been 5 weeks now and the stinging does not go away. can somebody tell me if this is normal. i heard of side effects lasting up to 4 weeks. but its now been over 5 weeks and the stinging is the same as ever if not worse. i dont have an infestation, that is for sure.
TJL

Dublin, Ireland

#20 Mar 20, 2010
After getting rid of the scabies I had using permithrin, my doctor prescribed betamethasone cream (a topical steroid) that was like magic for getting rid of the redness and bumps left by the scabies reactions. Certain parts of my body that looked horrible were completely back to normal in 48 hours, just after two applications of the cream. Other parts took a little bit longer, but that cream was amazing.
inaquandary

San Francisco, CA

#21 Mar 20, 2010
I'm still a bit itchy, and it's been 2 months since using the permethrin, rid, etc. My feeling is that a lot of this is residual damage from the treatment. I still get what look like bites on my scalp, and miscellaneous red bumps elsewhere that come and go, but things are better overall. What I've found helpful is a) showering only once a day and b) not using soap except where absolutely necessary. The harsh treatments strip your skin of its natural oils, and it takes several months for the skin to completely regenerate (it's a 6-week cycle, according to my dermatologist). I also use tea tree oil liberally, and that immediately deadens the crawling sensation that sometimes occurs. Hope this helps.

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