Mother's warning on the MMR vaccine

Oct 13, 2009 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Oxford Times

A MOTHER who claims her son's autism was worsened by the MMR vaccination has warned parents to think carefully about having the jab.

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EdSed

Southport, UK

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#64
Feb 9, 2010
 
friend wrote:
Try this one out for size
£500,000 for boy left fighting for life after being used as MMR guinea pig
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-500...
Daily mail. Thank you.
EdSed

Southport, UK

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#65
Feb 9, 2010
 

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Mage wrote:
<quoted text>
..Are you saying that they should have just ignored what Wakefield did?
I hope I have answered this question, but do not think that the GMC should take action against a doctor for calling for suspension of the MMR, if s/he were to do so because s/he genuinely thinks the MMR might be unsafe for some recipients.(I am aware that it is very widely believed that Dr Wakefield acted for personal gain and the reasons for that belief. I am not talking about Dr Wakefield, but doctors in general).
1. What should a doctor do if s/he thinks (perhaps only intuitively) the MMR should be replaced by separate jabs?
2. What should a doctor do if s/he believes s/he has evidence that the MMR may be hazardous, but his evidence is rejected most doctors?

I would also mention (again) that it is important to understand the rather low level of public faith in the GMC and other scientific quangos appointed by UKGov. It is not exactly that they are distrusted, but they have been wrong before and are not automatically assumed to be correct. Many people look at what they say as just 'majority professional opinion', rather than some kind of ultimate authority. Perhaps in the USA and other countries such bodies command more ready respect and their rulings and dictats are received with far less reservations or questions?

Note: I am just discussing these questions. I rarely form very firm conclusions. I simply hold views as far as the evidence seems to support the belief. I think Topix is often very funny as some people seem quite desperate to 'win' an argument.(I wonder what they think the prize is?:-) I come here to learn and to see how my views stand up against people who have also read something of the topic.
USSA

Allentown, PA

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#66
Feb 12, 2010
 

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This article has nothing to do with the MMR vaccine, but rather the complications from surgery.
friend wrote:
Try this one out for size
£500,000 for boy left fighting for life after being used as MMR guinea pig
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-500...

Since: Jan 07

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#67
Feb 12, 2010
 

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I'm surprized you don't see it more than that. The article has to do with the very doctors/ authors of the 1998 MMR study, and how they continued their theory work on children after the studies release. It wasn't enough they hurt those 12 children, they continued and injured more.
USSA wrote:
This article has nothing to do with the MMR vaccine, but rather the complications from surgery.
<quoted text>

Since: Jan 07

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#68
Feb 12, 2010
 

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It has been attempted, but Wakefield's study has never been replicated so it's clear you need a little more than a s/he who believes something is unsafe, study or no study. There's also been studies in which separate MMR jabs made no difference to onset of GI issues or autism. Wakefield's study more or less suggested measles vaccine leading to blocked intestines caused by measles virus leading to leaky gut syndrome leading to migration of proteins to the brain leading to autistic symptoms. The study was all about the measles vaccine so one would assume they would had believed removing the measles vaccine would have reduced the GI issues, but that's not what was suggested. Wakefield had his own measles vaccine up his sleeve. Any doctor could order separate jabs of measles, mumps and rubella. A study wouldn't be needed to come up with that option. Any doctor of their patient can decide certain medical care is not best for that child, no study will ever depict or include every single soul.

Regardless of the GMC's history or opinion of them, they acted correctly on this matter. A good question more would be how does s/he know if any given study is reliable? It's clear the public reacts to such studies and every government needs to be sure the studies are conducted correctly otherwise anyone could do a study and come up with any study to suggest anything and the public will react.
Pharma Maims Kills

Winnipeg, Canada

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#69
Sep 1, 2012
 

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No causal link wrote:
But the measles do cause misery and death.
Do you know that the last batch of mmr vaccines containing mercury preservatives expired in 2005? meaning that the vaccine this kid got did not even have the freaking mercury in it.
Hey moron that same vaccine was rejected by Canada over safety issues. Stick that in your pipe them up your butt.
Pharma Maims Kills

Winnipeg, Canada

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#70
Sep 1, 2012
 

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EdSed wrote:
http://www.communicationagents .com/chris/2004/09/14/mmr_and_ autism_the_link_really_has_bee n_established.htm
Anyone who believes the Chief Medical Officer of the United Kingdom is very foolish, IMO. The GMC is not above shutting up or prosecuting anyone who disagrees with their views. There does seem to be clear evidence of a link between autism and the MMR when these three vaccines are given simultaneously.
http://briandeer.com/mmr-lancet.htm
The Lance even tried to suggest Dr Andrew Wakefield published his research for monetary gain. What seems more likely is that authorities in the UK have assumed that there is no link between the MMR and autism because the link cannot be proven to their satisfaction. The mistake they make is the usual one in this country – if something is not proven concluively to be dangerous by rigorous scientific study, it is considered safe. If there is serious medical opinion backed up by research to suggest that there are grounds for believing the MMR is dangerous, however much disputed, the MMR should be treated as dangerous until it is proven to be safe.
I wish I had not given my son the MMR, but asked for the injections to be spaced as Dr Wakefield and others recommended. Fortunately it does not always cause outright autism. However, autism can be viewed as ‘a spectrum’ containing a number of conditions and syndromes. If one’s child develops any of them, one is bound to wonder...
Well said. My son too is a victim of mad science and unsaiable greed
Pharma Maims Kills

Winnipeg, Canada

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#71
Sep 1, 2012
 

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EdSed wrote:
<quoted text>
Exactly, but it is not proven that he simply misled people for cash. It was a limited study, of limited value and limited evidence that there was a link. Such a link has never been established to the satisfaction of the scientific community. That does not prove that there is no link. One could be equally sceptical of the studies that show there is no link whatever. It is the way people are silenced by authorities in this country that bothers me.
As Alan Johnson admitted regarding the Professor Nutt scandal, it is only Alan Johnson’s confidence that Professor Nutt needs to keep. Not anyone else’s. I think I have more confidence in Professor Nutt, whether I agree with his opinion or not, than Alan Johnson.
From:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/nov/0...
"Professor Nutt was not sacked for his views, which I respect but disagree with," [Johnson] writes. "He was asked to go because he cannot be both a government adviser and a campaigner against government policy." He did not campaign against government policy. It appears to me that he vociferously disagreed with it. Anyway it must surely be up to a scientific body to classify drugs A, B or C? It is for politicians to make the laws according to the classification scientists attach to them. If that were accepted it might clear up some of the confusion.
From:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/oct/3...
“The government's chief scientist, Prof John Beddington, warned in August that ministers risk alienating science advisers and squandering their experience by dragging them into public rows. On that occasion, he was referring to Jacqui Smith's very public admonition of Nutt for his comments in an academic journal comparing the risks of ecstasy to horse-riding.”
In my opinion, governments choose which scientific advice they favour and then inflict it on the rest of us. I repeat: The mistake they make is the usual one in this country – if something is not proven conclusively to be dangerous by rigorous scientific study, it is considered safe. If there is serious medical opinion backed up by research to suggest that there are grounds for believing the MMR is dangerous, however much disputed, the MMR should be treated as dangerous until it is proven to be safe. The principle should be that the MMR has to be proven to be safe. This has not been established and the precaution of giving the vaccine in three separate doses over a period of months has not been taken.
For these reasons I do not trust people like Alan Johnson with the health of my child.
Well done again. Come back and give us your support onec again.
Pharma Maims Kills

Winnipeg, Canada

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#72
Sep 1, 2012
 

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friend wrote:
Like I said earlier, Wakefield didn't say the MMR caused autism, and he said this in many interviews and on a recent interview he stated it again on Dateline. It was media and parents that misread/ inserted that it did cause autism. The reason why parents took the misleading idea it did cause autism is because all 12 in the study had autism, and they were wanting to sue, hence those attorney's who financed it.
What ever Wakefield is seeing in those intestines, no other GI doctor is also seeing, which alone that is rather fishy. The Government is suppose to protect us from bad studies as such. It's their job.
Spray that again?
Pharma Maims Kills

Winnipeg, Canada

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#73
Sep 1, 2012
 

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EdSed wrote:
It is interesting to look dispassionately at what goes on. The link below suggests that mercury is or was in some US products, but never in MMR. I am unclear that it was never in any MMR vaccine available, but I have not heard of it being in UK vaccines..
http://www.fda.gov/biologicsbloodvaccines/saf...
But it has apparently been used in ‘safe doses’ for US whooping cough vaccines?..
http://www.medilexicon.com/drugs/tripedia.php
You can't put mercury in a live vaccine because it kills everything it contacts. Thats why injecting it is mad.
Pharma Maims Kills

Winnipeg, Canada

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#74
Sep 1, 2012
 

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friend wrote:
'No one' meaning until Wakefield, there was no connection to autism and vaccines, and there really still isn't. That wasn't directed at you, of course, you can find that timeline any where. The idea was sort of in a round about way started by Wakefield and he was asked about that directly in interviews; the end result of his study starting all this and it still continues to Thimerosal, and any other content in vaccines some of which people (not you) make up to scare others.
The fact is, as of today not one study yet has proven concretely what causes autism and many studies have been done with vaccines. Many kids have gotten vaccines and yet no one can say why some have autism and most don't, or why more boys than girls.
The deal is regardless of vaccine choice, what we have is increasing autism rates and newly increasing out breaks of measles and other known things due to vaccine rejection.
I do not believe autism is an immune disorder, period. I also wouldn't believe mercury poisoning is autism. They have very much the same symptom's, but they are two different things.
What a f'n stool sample
Pharma Maims Kills

Winnipeg, Canada

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#75
Sep 1, 2012
 

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EdSed wrote:
I do not think you are seeing the implications of what I have written.
1. Dr Wakefield did not start the controvercy. His study brought it to the public domain.
2. There are good reasons why people do not and,(in my opinion), should not rely on the British Government (Labour or Tory) to 'protect them' from scientific studies that appear to contradict government advice.
3. The objections to the MMR are not based on the fact that it is proven to be connected to Autism. It is based on the fact that it is not proven to be safe and there are reasonable grounds for believing it is dangerous - with or without mercury or Thimerosol.
4. The objections can be overcome by offering the injections separately over a period of time. This is an affordable option, even if some charge has to be made for it. This government rejects it out of hand.
5. UKGov has a history of backing the wrong scientific opinion, e.g. CJD.
6. The idea that MMR and Autism might be linked is far from 'debunked'. Quite the reverse. The idea that the UKGov is always correct in taking decisions on what is safe and what is not - that is thoroughly de-bunked.
7. You still have not suggested a more likely cause of the rise in autism cases in the UK.(Not that I think the MMR is the only cause, just one possible one).
You are debating friend (OF PHARMA) and will never cure this Paul Offit loving ORAC wannabe Pharma paid Troll/
Pharma Maims Kills

Winnipeg, Canada

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#76
Sep 1, 2012
 

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EdSed wrote:
Hmm. I felt sure I read that in one of the links.(Maybe it was one I did not post?) I do apologise. I thought everyone familiar with the debate was aware of the argument that the affect of MMR on the digestive and immune systems might trigger a pre-disposition rather than be the cause itself? That was so obvious to me, I did not realise it was not made clear in the links I posted. Anyway, my apologies and here are some articles (I hope) that make that clear..
From:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4311613.stm
“He said the research did not deal with the suggestion that there is a small group of children who are unusually vulnerable in whom MMR triggers autism - but there was no evidence that this was the case”.
From:
http://health.dailynewscentral.com/content/vi...
“Researchers in the Japanese study reportedly acknowledged that MMR might trigger autism in a very small number of children. Although they found no evidence to support that hypothesis, they were unable to rule it out”.
This article is interesting because it puts the shoe on the other foot..
http://www.ich.ucl.ac.uk/immunisation/mmr_aut...
It asks “is this regimen safe?”, i.e giving the vaccines separately.
The above also makes the point that I do not reject the idea that MMR is safe, nor that it is safer than giving the injections separately. I do object to being told that I cannot consider the risks for myself and must be forced to agree with the scientists in the majority. I wish to consider (as with CJD) that the minority of scientific opinion may be correct.
And the evidence of the majority looks formidable:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMR_vaccine_cont...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/155676...
However, in one study,(link above) Dr Fiona Scott and Dr Carol Stott have reportedly said they think the jab, given to children between 12 and 15 months, could be responsible for growing numbers of children apparently exhibiting symptoms of the disorder. The other five, including team leader Professor Simon Baron-Cohen, rejected their view. Such divergence of opinion is not uncommon amongst scientists and I have read a very convincing article (cannot now find it on the Internet) that explained why the Japanese study should not be considered to have disproved the idea that MMR could be linked to autism. The debate is quieter now and I am not saying I am sure that the MMR is not safer than separate injections. The lack of recent research is a problem, but with politicians in this country determined to ‘get their message across’ that is to be expected. What I do say is that I do not trust the UKGov, nor the British Medical Council to always be right.
Another great post
Pharma Maims Kills

Winnipeg, Canada

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#78
Sep 1, 2012
 

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EdSed wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A ndrew_Wakefield
http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/01/the-genera...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/jan/28...
http://www.gmc-uk.org/concerns/complaints_and...
Leaving the GMC to take all health decisions regarding our children is to run risks.
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/extract/337/no...
I find that the GMC have failed in their duty to protect the children’s interests in the UK. They have shown a callous disregard for the opinions of others and thereby put at risk the safety of our children. The risk seems unnecessary and pointless.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1...
It appears that the GMC work on the principle that ‘the majority are always right’. A better principle would be ‘the minority are sometimes right’ and it would be safer to give the jabs separately, or at least offer the alternative at an affordable price to those of us who do not trust the GMC’s opinions on everything for very good reasons.
Must read links.
Stay Away fr Gardasail

East Orange, NJ

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#79
Sep 1, 2012
 

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Stay away from Gardasil
Pharma Maims Kills

Winnipeg, Canada

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#80
Sep 1, 2012
 

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EdSed wrote:
<quoted text>
From your first link:
"Urgent further research is needed to determine whether MMR may give rise to this complication in a small number of people," Dr Wakefield said at the time."
"May" is what Dr Wakefield says. I and many others agree that this line of research was interesting and needs to be pursued. I repeat, one needs to focus on the science, which is not discredited as it was never sufficiently pursued. Dr Wakefield's results appear to have been independently repeated. You seem to just ignore my earlier posts and repeat what has already been posted?
The danger that many perceive in the MMR is potentially avoided by spacing the 3 jabs. That would seem a reasonable precaution. I hold the GMC's approach responsible for the drop in vaccinations against measles, not Dr Wakefield or his research. It seems that everyone who disagrees with them potentially becomes their target.
As your link pointed out, Mr Blair makes no comment on whether he trusts the jabs for his own child. He is not alone. Any public figure or professional person risks being attacked on a personal level by people like the GMC, as they have demonstrated.
One reason people believe the GMC is because people say things like "There is no scientific professional who will tell you there is a causal link between the MMR and autism". That is true. That is not what Dr Wakefield insists either. He says he believes there may be a link and the risks should not be run. I agree,a s they are not necessary.
There does seem to be a huge increase in autism both statistically and anecdotally. When I was young I did not meet anyone with a condition like asperger's or autism, whatever name it might have been given. Now we come across cases all the time and there seems little public concern and UKGov express little concern about the matter other than to avoid the MMR for their own children.
Another gem. Keep up the good work.
Pharma Maims Kills

Winnipeg, Canada

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#81
Sep 1, 2012
 

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EdSed wrote:
<quoted text>
This is similar to the findings I read about in Japan. However, in both studies the incidence of autism seemed to go down in those who had received the MMR. If the MMR had no effect at all one would expect to see no change in the rate of autism at all. If the rate goes up or down, that is possilby evidence of a link, not evidence that there is no link. Such studies are not proof that there is no link, only that the MMR is apparently safe. The point is that there could be a link that is not understood and the answer may lie in the detail of how or when the vaccination occurs, or in the nature of the vaccination itself. More research is needed IMO, especially into the increase in cases of autism in the UK. Assuming the MMR is not causal in itself, what is the reason for the increase?
Good one
Pharma Maims Kills

Winnipeg, Canada

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#82
Sep 1, 2012
 

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friend wrote:
Try this one out for size
£500,000 for boy left fighting for life after being used as MMR guinea pig
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-500...
What a hypocrite. very vaccine injection is an experiment with every recipirnt a guinea pig. This practice has existed long before Wakefield, but according to your warped conclusion his use of it is black-hearted and evil. What a hoot.
Da Boss

Leicester, UK

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#83
Mar 5, 2013
 

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Dudes...u lots been fightin 4 ages man
ric99

Boston, UK

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#84
Mar 5, 2013
 

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Pharma Maims Kills wrote:
<quoted text> What a hypocrite. very vaccine injection is an experiment with every recipirnt a guinea pig. This practice has existed long before Wakefield, but according to your warped conclusion his use of it is black-hearted and evil. What a hoot.
Are you a total moron? Wakefield requested a totally unnecessary colonoscopy (with known risks) to be carried out on this boy, without parental consent, which went wrong. It had nothing to do with MMR. It was merely to check out Wakefields theory of a link between autism and colon disease. It was for this and other medical malpractices that Wakefield was struck off the medical register, and rightly so.

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