The Panic Over Whether Religion Is 'E...

The Panic Over Whether Religion Is 'Even Legal'

There are 158 comments on the Religion Dispatched story from Dec 13, 2013, titled The Panic Over Whether Religion Is 'Even Legal'. In it, Religion Dispatched reports that:

There's a new ripple of panic this week about religious freedom. In the National Review , Kathryn Jean Lopez, reacting to the American Civil Liberties Union's lawsuit against the US Conference of Catholic Bishops, asks : "Is religion even legal?" Lopez worries that the lawsuit , which seeks to hold the USCCB liable for providing substandard medical ... (more)

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Religion Dispatched.

anonymous

Absecon, NJ

#106 Dec 17, 2013
snyper wrote:
Religion is not "legal"
Religion is not "illegal"
Religion has no legal existence whatsoever.
Well, it certainly breaks the laws of physics on a regular basis. I wouldn't trust it's testimony in a court of law.
cancer suxs

Faribault, MN

#107 Dec 17, 2013
Religion is legal. As long as religion is not used to discriminate and attack someone,also no laws made because of religious belief alone.

“ WOOF ! ”

Since: Nov 12

Coolidge, AZ

#108 Dec 17, 2013
cancer suxs wrote:
Religion is legal. As long as religion is not used to discriminate and attack someone,also no laws made because of religious belief alone.
You're INSANE !:)
cancer suxs

Faribault, MN

#109 Dec 17, 2013
Fa-Foxy wrote:
<quoted text>
You're INSANE !:)
How is posting a fact and Constitutional basis make me insane? Try to argue my post or prove me wrong...

“ WOOF ! ”

Since: Nov 12

Coolidge, AZ

#110 Dec 17, 2013
cancer suxs wrote:
<quoted text>
How is posting a fact and Constitutional basis make me insane? Try to argue my post or prove me wrong...
"not used to discriminate" ? How about if The Roman catholic Church won't allow a woman, or a Jewish person or a Mormon to be a priest and lead one of their churches ? Isn't that "discrimination'? Of course it is ! And churches and religious institutions have every right to discriminate against people. "Discrimination against a person. or group of people" is not necessarily wrong.
cancer suxs

Faribault, MN

#111 Dec 17, 2013
Fa-Foxy wrote:
<quoted text>
"not used to discriminate" ? How about if The Roman catholic Church won't allow a woman, or a Jewish person or a Mormon to be a priest and lead one of their churches ? Isn't that "discrimination'? Of course it is ! And churches and religious institutions have every right to discriminate against people. "Discrimination against a person. or group of people" is not necessarily wrong.
In the church in there house of worship that is fine. But not in PUBLIC realm.

In a religious setting yes they can discriminate. But if they want to do business in a public place then IT IS AND SHOULD BE ILLEGAL.

What if my religion said that all Christians should be called names all day and to never do any business with them. THAT OK??
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#112 Dec 17, 2013
cancer suxs wrote:
What if my religion said that all Christians should be called names all day and to never do any business with them. THAT OK??
Yes.
cancer suxs

Faribault, MN

#113 Dec 17, 2013
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes.
Yea right ok. NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO DISCRIMINATE....When you turn away someone because of your religion you are taking away there rights.

So if my religion says I have to kill 4 people a year. Is that ok?
cancer suxs

Faribault, MN

#114 Dec 17, 2013
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes.
Is it legal or should it be for me as a business owner if a black person walks in can I say legally WE DONT SERVE N------- HERE...

Should that be legal?
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#115 Dec 17, 2013
cancer suxs wrote:
<quoted text>
Yea right ok. NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO DISCRIMINATE....When you turn away someone because of your religion you are taking away there rights.
So if my religion says I have to kill 4 people a year. Is that ok?
Dumber and dumber. It's sad that in this country, with all the money we spend on education, we have sh-theads like you. I guess you can lead a horse to water.....
cancer suxs

Faribault, MN

#116 Dec 17, 2013
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
Dumber and dumber. It's sad that in this country, with all the money we spend on education, we have sh-theads like you. I guess you can lead a horse to water.....
Wont answer will you?

I am 100000 times smarter and more educated then you are caveman. I am dealing in facts and truth. Constitutional freedoms and rights. You have right to your religion...just cant force it on others or deny others there rights.

Tell me where in the Constitution it says you can take away or keep away others right..

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#117 Dec 17, 2013
You guys are conflating again.

You are conflating the person who is a Citizen with their membership and/or participation in a club. Just a number of individual Citizens.

Their particular form of interaction is just that .... a form of interaction.

Their rationale for such interaction is personal and private, and has no particular legal reality ... or should not.

Religion is not legal.

Religion is not illegal.

The State has no definition of what constitutes a "religion". To create one would violate the 1st Amendment.

Religion has no legal reality, per se.

These problem exist partly BECAUSE OF then various little ways that we have violated the 1st Amendment by granting ANY form of legal status, classification or recognition that such even exists.

Once stripped of these, the public behaviors of individual Citizens cease to be "religious expression", and simply revert to public behaviors which are either illegal or neutral.

"Legal", per se, is used ONLY colloquially to denote something which is nor illegal. The Law does not define things or actions that are legal. The Law requires certain things, but overwhelmingly limits or prohibits. It does not specifically state, ever, that something is legal.

Religion, at it's core is an idea, or system of ideas. The United States, despite the efforts of certain types (McCarthy and the Birchers come to mind) does not make ideas illegal.

Religion may also find expression in certain behaviors required or encouraged by the specific idea-set.

Because religion is an idea and has no legal reality, it is only the behaviors of the individual that can, and do, have legal reality.

Religion cannot be used as an exculpatory for behaviors which violate the law.

A religious thought system may require it's adherents to kill others.

The law forbids a person from killing others, mainly because it violates the victim's intrinsic autonomy as a person.

Legally, a religious idea cannot be used to excuse killing others.

Other instances of socially aggressive behaviors are just a matter of the degree of violation of others' intrinsic autonomy.

"The difference between a drive-by shouting and a drive-by shooting is just a matter of degree." - A.D.S.

Religion is an idea, an intangible, and has no legal existence.

The behaviors of individuals do.
spike

Akron, OH

#118 Dec 17, 2013
cancer suxs wrote:
<quoted text>
Is it legal or should it be for me as a business owner if a black person walks in can I say legally WE DONT SERVE N------- HERE...
Should that be legal?
yes
cancer suxs

Faribault, MN

#119 Dec 17, 2013
spike wrote:
<quoted text>yes
It is not legal and should not be legal....Your ignorant if you think it is.
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#120 Dec 17, 2013
cancer suxs wrote:
<quoted text>
I am 100000 times smarter and more educated then you are caveman..
That's obvious.
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#121 Dec 17, 2013
cancer suxs wrote:
<quoted text>
Wont answer will you?
Your question:
"So if my religion says I have to kill 4 people a year. Is that ok?"

My reply:
Your question is ridiculous. I could understand it if people that were forced to be around you for a year would rather be killed.
cancer suxs

Faribault, MN

#122 Dec 17, 2013
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
Your question:
"So if my religion says I have to kill 4 people a year. Is that ok?"
My reply:
Your question is ridiculous. I could understand it if people that were forced to be around you for a year would rather be killed.
My question is same thing..

You say the baker had the right to take away the gay couples rights....SAME SAME.
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#123 Dec 17, 2013
cancer suxs wrote:
<quoted text>
My question is same thing..
You say the baker had the right to take away the gay couples rights....SAME SAME.
Same thing?
You: kill 4 people each year.
Baker: refuse to bake a gay wedding cake.

No, not even close.

“Happiness comes through giving”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#124 Dec 17, 2013
Fa-Foxy wrote:
<quoted text>
definition of a mook: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =8vw8t4O9JQMXX
So nobody knows what a mook is, not even DeNiro.

“ WOOF ! ”

Since: Nov 12

Coolidge, AZ

#125 Dec 17, 2013
Lawrence Wolf wrote:
<quoted text>So nobody knows what a mook is, not even DeNiro.
A "mook" is synonymous with a "jerk", as in a stupid person.

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