Letter: Teachers stretched thin

Letter: Teachers stretched thin

There are 40 comments on the Chico Enterprise-Record story from May 19, 2008, titled Letter: Teachers stretched thin. In it, Chico Enterprise-Record reports that:

Suicide among doctors is estimated to be about 300 to 400 individuals a year according to a recent article in the San Francisco Chronicle.

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Oh Brother

Redding, CA

#1 May 19, 2008
Wow! This analogy is stretched so thin that it's hardly worth trying to determine Kenneth's point. Ahh, another public school educated individual, I suppose. The research on suicides among physicians actually refers to the fact that doctors have the knowledge to successfully kill themselves. In addition, patient ratios have VERY little to do with their broader existential depression and daily awareness that good people die even when trying to prevent the inevitable. I see very little connection to teachers, and if the comparison wasn't so poorly executed, this letter would be offensive. Fortunately, the analogy is so thin, it leaves us without a connection. Teachers who get almost four months per year off, work less than eight hours a day and get paid $50,000 for churning out people who write and think like Kenneth are not at risk of killing themselves. Read the SF article a little more closely next time.

“God loves to heal people”

Since: Nov 07

Harrogate, UK

#2 May 19, 2008
Teachers work hard and deserve their pay. They don't get almost 4 months off at all! They also take their work home - they have to prepare lessons and mark work, many also take part in after school activities. They work hard and deserve their pay and some respect, teaching is not a cushy number.
LocalControl

Menlo Park, CA

#3 May 19, 2008
So lets fix this horrible problem. Poor teachers. I propose that we take this problem seriously. It is ovious that teacher's mental health is in question. Teachers having sex with students, teachers thinking they are poor paupers while driving new expensive cars, while going on exotic vacations, or blowing huge amounts of taxpayer's money to party in Vegas.(meetings).Teachers with better-than-most health-care plans and retirement think they are some of the worst paid of all occupations. I am convinced teachers need mental health evaluations, and they should be drug tested regularly.
Let's take these poor teachers out of their high stress government jobs and move these jobs into the private sector. Then the teacher's loyalty and dedication ill be to their students first, not their union's lobbys.
tiredofthesos

Akashi, Japan

#4 May 19, 2008
The ignorance of the never-educated in America, and their hatred of the very idea of learning, much less teachers, as the aptly-named "oh brother" shows us, is the reason the USA will be a faded power, the 21st Century's Ottoman Empire, unless the tide is turned very, very soon.

I have no objection to your bizarre and sad interest in remaining ignorant, since it is still a free country. Expect others to attempt to embarrass - shame being sadly beyond the capacity of Faux/Rush/Free Republic dittoheads - you for every word, however.

Local

Menlo Park, CA

#5 May 19, 2008
tiredofthesos wrote:
The ignorance of the never-educated in America, and their hatred of the very idea of learning, much less teachers, as the aptly-named "oh brother" shows us, is the reason the USA will be a faded power, the 21st Century's Ottoman Empire, unless the tide is turned very, very soon.
I have no objection to your bizarre and sad interest in remaining ignorant, since it is still a free country. Expect others to attempt to embarrass - shame being sadly beyond the capacity of Faux/Rush/Free Republic dittoheads - you for every word, however.
Which is equivalent to, "waaaaaa"!

Teacher teacher I declare:

If anything is destroying the country, is certainly greedy self-serving bunch of pompous big-spending bureaucrats and whore politicians that except money for political favors from their lobby groups.

The California Teacherís Association is one of the top five contributors to the state assembly.

Kenís letter must be a cry for help, to get even more money and benefits.
its me

AOL

#6 May 19, 2008
Local wrote:
<quoted text>
Which is equivalent to, "waaaaaa"!
Teacher teacher I declare:
If anything is destroying the country, is certainly greedy self-serving bunch of pompous big-spending bureaucrats and whore politicians that except money for political favors from their lobby groups.
The California Teacherís Association is one of the top five contributors to the state assembly.
Kenís letter must be a cry for help, to get even more money and benefits.
You really need to sue each and every one of your teachers. It is obvious that you did not get the education that the taxpayers paid for.
its me

AOL

#7 May 19, 2008
Oh Brother wrote:
Teachers who get almost four months per year off.
Teachers do not get almost 4 months off during the course of the year. Teachers get two months off during the summer and many teachers spend that time working an additional job to make extra money or they go to school to improve their teaching skills.
Oh Brother wrote:
work less than eight hours a day
Teachers do not work less than 8 hours a day. They may spend less than 8 hours a day in front of students, but they also have to spend time planning for the learning to take place. Additionally, they have to grade assignments. A teacher who has 100 students (common for middle school and high school) who gives out two grades per students per week spends 1000 minutes grading if that teacher spends 5 minutes per assignment. That is a little over 16 hours a week just on grading. Now, add the time that a teacher has to spend in meetings (at least 2 hours per week) and the time that the teacher has to spend making parent contacts for grades, behavior or any one of a thousand other reasons. Now, add the amount of time for additional paperwork that documents progress or lack of progress for each student. Add the time to file at least some of the assignments so that when a parent complains about grades you have something to show for it. It really is kind of hard to do all of that in less than 8 hours. Most teachers spend weekends, spring break and winter break getting caught up on all of the paper work that is required.
Oh Brother wrote:
get paid $50,000
Many teachers do not get paid $50,000 a year. In fact, MOST teachers do not get paid $50,000 a year. Spend some time and research how much teachers get paid, especially in states like West Virginia or South Dakota. Additionally, most teachers supplement their classroom supplies out of their own pocket.
Oh Brother wrote:
Wow! This analogy is stretched so thin that it's hardly worth trying to determine Kenneth's point.
Yes, the analogy IS stretched thin, but that is NO reason to attack teachers. Teachers are the ones that hold this country's future in their hands. Most teachers do not get into the field for the money because the money simply is not their. A high percentage of teachers are assaulted by their students each and every year. Yet most still come back to the classroom. The reason they keep coming back despite the poor pay, the assaults and the lack of respect from people like you is because of dedication.
its me

AOL

#8 May 19, 2008
LocalControl wrote:
Teachers having sex with students,
Obviously when this happens, it makes news. Of course, policemen, firemen, ministers, politicians, bankers, construction workers and so on all have sex with minors. So, lets dispense with the holier than thou attitude. Even poorly educated people like yourself engage in sex with minors. There are laws that punish those that do. Just make sure those laws are utilized.
LocalControl wrote:
teachers thinking they are poor paupers while driving new expensive cars,
With your level of education, I would think that a 2008 Toyota Yaris would be an expensive new car. I don't know when the last time you were in a teacher's parking lot, but the vast majority of cars could not be considered to be expensive.
LocalControl wrote:
while going on exotic vacations,
I am not sure where you think teachers go on exotic vacations. Some do. Most don't. Of course, if you define camping in a National Park as exotic, then, yes, many teachers do go on exotic vacations.
LocalControl wrote:
or blowing huge amounts of taxpayer's money to party in Vegas.(meetings
I wonder how many teachers have been to Vegas. Most teachers pay their own way to go to conferences because the school districts do not have enough money to pay for them to go. Many teachers even pay for their own subs when they go to these conferences.
Of course, you seem to assume that anyone who has enough money to spend a night or two away from home in a hotel room is going away to party. That is far from the case. Most people go to hotel rooms to sleep and go to conferences to learn something. That holds true not only for teachers but for the vast majority of people who go to conferences as part of their job.
LocalControl wrote:
Teachers with better-than-most health-care plans and retirement
Many teachers do have good health care plans. Family coverage under those plans can be expensive. Most teachers have so so retirement plans that they need to subsidize with a 401K.
I would assume, because of all your anger, that you have a menial job that grants you no healthcare benefits and no retirement benefits. I would suggest that you look at ways to educate yourself and get new, more marketable skills so you can get a better job that does have benefits.
its me

AOL

#9 May 19, 2008
Zoompad wrote:
Teachers work hard and deserve their pay. They don't get almost 4 months off at all! They also take their work home - they have to prepare lessons and mark work, many also take part in after school activities. They work hard and deserve their pay and some respect, teaching is not a cushy number.
You are correct. I am surprised at the level of animosity that some people feel towards teachers. I am sure that the public is unaware that most beginning teachers do not last 5 years in the job before they find a job that pays better and has less headaches. I would have to guess that most of the population does not realize that the vast majority of teachers could make lots more money in a different field and that it is only dedication and caring for the students that keeps them in the classroom.
Mark D

Orangevale, CA

#10 May 19, 2008
Speaking of "stretched thin," I think you have to find a better analogy. A doctor who has the actual physical lives of patients in his hands and who must make constant life or death decisions is hardly the same as a student with 25 eight year olds under her charge every day. I am sure there is stress, but threatening an epidemic of teacher suicides is just not believable.
Bob

Menlo Park, CA

#11 May 19, 2008
To: Its me,
Obviously when this happens, it makes news. Of course, policemen, firemen, ministers, politicians, bankers, construction workers and so on all have sex with minors. So, lets dispense with the holier than thou attitude. Even poorly educated people like yourself engage in sex with minors. There are laws that punish those that do. Just make sure those laws are utilized.

"With your level of education, I would think that a 2008 Toyota Yaris would be an expensive new car".

Actually, yes that would be awonderful car to own, no I cannot afford one.

"I am not sure where you think teachers go on exotic vacations. Some do. Most don't. Of course, if you define camping in a National Park".

Well shame on you for trampling on Mother nature.

"I wonder how many teachers have been to Vegas. Most teachers pay their own way to go to conferences because the school districts do not have enough money to pay for them to go. Many teachers even pay for their own subs when they go to these conferences.
Of course, you seem to assume that anyone who has enough money to spend a night or two away from home in a hotel room is going away to party. That is far from the case. Most people go to hotel rooms to sleep and go to conferences to learn something. That holds true not only for teachers but for the vast majority of people who go to conferences as part of their job".
I personally know people who go to the "conferences". They party their butts off. Why else would the conference be held in Vegas or other places that cater to party. 20,000 dollars is being spent to host the upcoming party, er conference in Vegas. That isn't taxpayer's money?

"I would assume, because of all your anger, that you have a menial job that grants you no healthcare benefits and no retirement benefits. I would suggest that you look at ways to educate yourself and get new, more marketable skills so you can get a better job that does have benefits".

Well there is a perfect example of teacher's arrogance and) I am better than the rest attitude but I am still a victim too). Couldn't afford an education, had to feed kids. I couldnít send the kids to College, so I guess I am just rift-raft in your eyes. Colleges are expensive. There are special grant monies for people to go to college. The most lucrative being the grants for minorities. Even if they are here illegally, they get in-state tuition rates and tons of financial help that my family cannot get. They get free medical, food stamps, help with rent. So we the people must just keep working to pay the costs. By the way, the California state budget has risen 30 percent just since Governor Arnold too office. Yes many others and I are a bit angry. It doesn't matter what people democratically vote for. Proposition 186, now the ban on gay marriages, the GOV, the educational system, the prison system runs the GOV, not the people.
Of course I am not educated like you, so what do I know.
its me

AOL

#12 May 19, 2008
Bob wrote:
To: Its me,
Well there is a perfect example of teacher's arrogance and) I am better than the rest attitude but I am still a victim too). Couldn't afford an education, had to feed kids. I couldnít send the kids to College, so I guess I am just rift-raft in your eyes. Colleges are expensive. There are special grant monies for people to go to college. The most lucrative being the grants for minorities. Even if they are here illegally, they get in-state tuition rates and tons of financial help that my family cannot get. They get free medical, food stamps, help with rent. So we the people must just keep working to pay the costs. By the way, the California state budget has risen 30 percent just since Governor Arnold too office. Yes many others and I are a bit angry. It doesn't matter what people democratically vote for. Proposition 186, now the ban on gay marriages, the GOV, the educational system, the prison system runs the GOV, not the people.
Of course I am not educated like you, so what do I know.
I feel sorry for you. You anger at others, including minorities has blinded you to the opportunities that you DO have.

You do not have to go to college full time in order to get a degree, you can take one class at a time. You can even take classes online and not go to campus for most of your education. You can get credit for some courses simply by taking a test. Of course you would have to study for that.

You can move to a different area of the country where costs are lower.

An education does not necessarily mean a 4 year degree. Electricians and plumbers can earn quite a bit and do not have a college degree. Truck drivers can make as much as school teachers and you can go to school for that. Avoid being an owner operator, though, because with the rising fuel costs and the low freight rates it is becoming more difficult to make ends meet.

There are ways to get money for college for young people:
The military-also allows you to learn a marketable skill
Americorps

Young people can save money by going to community college for 2 years and getting an associates degree.

By the way, the Pell Grant will give you almost $4500 a year for school.

There are grants and loans out there for students that do not have anything to do with ethnicity. Those are the ones from the government.

As far as the gay marriage thing, it seems you have a LOT more to worry about than what 2 consenting adults do in the privacy of their own home. Perhaps if you spent as much time figuring out solutions to your problems as you do figuring out who screwed you and how bad they did it then you would not be in the bleak financial situation you are today. I do not see how life can be enjoyable when there are so many people you hate.
its me

AOL

#13 May 19, 2008
Bob wrote:
To: Its me,
I personally know people who go to the "conferences". They party their butts off. Why else would the conference be held in Vegas or other places that cater to party. 20,000 dollars is being spent to host the upcoming party, er conference in Vegas. That isn't taxpayer's money?
It sounds like most of your friends are alcoholics.

Not every conference is held in Vegas. By the way, the NEA national meeting is being held in Washington, DC this year, NOT Vegas.
The regional conferences were held in:
Austin, TX, Minneapolis, MN, Brooklyn, NY, Louisville, KY, Myrtle Beach, SC, and Boise, ID.
Bob

Menlo Park, CA

#14 May 19, 2008
Could you look down your bigoted nose any further? I'll bet you can! Just leave your rose-colored glasses on and pretend. If anything makes your pretend world seem not so good, just throw names at it, and say your right and any other opinion is wrong. That is the progrerssive's MO.

Inevitably, we all go down with the good ship lollipop.
Bob

Menlo Park, CA

#15 May 19, 2008
its me wrote:
<quoted text>
It sounds like most of your friends are alcoholics.
Not every conference is held in Vegas. By the way, the NEA national meeting is being held in Washington, DC this year, NOT Vegas.
The regional conferences were held in:
Austin, TX, Minneapolis, MN, Brooklyn, NY, Louisville, KY, Myrtle Beach, SC, and Boise, ID.
SO where does the monies for those meeting come from? The Good Fairy? Why are they even necessary in today's connected world?
Bob

Menlo Park, CA

#16 May 19, 2008
Itsme stated: "As far as the gay marriage thing, it seems you have a LOT more to worry about than what 2 consenting adults do in the privacy of their own home. Perhaps if you spent as much time figuring out solutions to your problems as you do figuring out who screwed you and how bad they did it then you would not be in the bleak financial situation you are today. I do not see how life can be enjoyable when there are so many people you hate"
Reply:
So go to a public school and tell people that your a God loving Christian. In fact, why don't you pretend your one, take the role seriously, make people believe your character. Then go somewere they don't know you. Where your cross, smile, do good deeds, profess your love for God and Country, and see how you are received in your public teacher's world. You will then know hatred and discrimination.
As far as minorities, the whole Government concept should be ended as it promotes hatred and division and profiteers from it. The government is promoting and acting on legalized discriminations. Written for and by attorneys.

I'd rather just see people blend. Hey, i am a white guy that discovered Dorthy Dandrige on youtube. Love her!
its me

AOL

#17 May 19, 2008
Bob wrote:
Could you look down your bigoted nose any further?
You ask me about being bigoted?
I guess I will remind you of what you said.
Bob wrote:
I personally know people who go to the "conferences". They party their butts off.
...
There are special grant monies for people to go to college. The most lucrative being the grants for minorities.
...
Even if they are here illegally, they get in-state tuition rates and tons of financial help that my family cannot get. They get free medical, food stamps, help with rent. So we the people must just keep working to pay the costs.
... now the ban on gay marriages,
You can learn about the definition of bigoted at:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bigote...

Now again, YOU are responsible for the position that YOU are in. Not me. Not the government. Not the illegal aliens. Not the minorities. Not the drunks who go to conferences. Not the gays. Just YOU. If your life sucks, and it sure sounds like it does, YOU need to look in the mirror and figure out what YOU can do to help yourself.

YOU have access to the Internet. USE the Internet to see what YOU can do to help yourself. The world is not against you. You are. You are your own worst enemy. There are enough people in the world lined up trying to be martyrs that you will never make it no matter how hard you try and the only person that is going to feel sorry for you is you. I certainly don't.
Bob

Menlo Park, CA

#18 May 19, 2008
its me wrote:
<quoted text>
You really need to sue each and every one of your teachers. It is obvious that you did not get the education that the taxpayers paid for.
Not a bad idea, but I think there is a period of time that has past. Besides, your powerful unions would have an army of attorneys against one for me, on that is laughing when he says we can win while taking my retainer.
Bob

Menlo Park, CA

#19 May 19, 2008
Bigoted: adjective utterly intolerant of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.
As I said, pretend you love your country and it's heritage, and constitution and respect and love for Jesus. Wear a Cross, and then feel/hear bigotry from people who claim to be victims of it, and claim their cause in the name of social justice, whild demanding others be silenced.
its me

AOL

#20 May 19, 2008
Bob wrote:
So go to a public school and tell people that your a God loving Christian. In fact, why don't you pretend your one, take the role seriously, make people believe your character. Then go somewere they don't know you. Where your cross, smile, do good deeds, profess your love for God and Country, and see how you are received in your public teacher's world. You will then know hatred and discrimination.
Actually, that is not true. In the schools I have worked in we have had teacher prayer groups in the morning praying for our students. That is more than one school. I am not sure why you think that being a teacher is contrary to being a Christian.

Your experience with hatred and discrimination has a lot more to do with your attitude that you present to others than it does with being a Christian. You present an attitude of hatred. It can be seen in your words that you wrote about illegal aliens, minorities and gay marriages. You want to discriminate against others for the color of their skin, their country of origin or their sexual preference. And then you complain that others are discriminating against you.

As a Christian, I do not see it as my place to discriminate against others. You obviously see it differently. That is your right and that is between you and God.

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