Disappointed in overdenture with 4 implants

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Susie

North Dartmouth, MA

#1 Aug 9, 2010
After almost 1 year with a temporary top denture which I was miserable with, I finally got my new denture in June. It is held in place with 4 implants. I'm just not happy with it (after spending over 20,000...including implants). I thought it would feel more secure and feel more natural. I've had several adjustments made, but I still feel movement when I bite down. When I eat, I definitely feel movement. I hate that I need to take it out and rinse it with every meal. Otherwise it collects "stuff".. Does anyone else have this problem? How tight and secure can you actually make it? If it's too tight I'm afraid I won't be able to get it out. I just don't think I'll ever get used to it. I hate the "movement" I feel. I guess I thought with the implants, it would feel more natural than it does. I know it can never replace your real teeth. The teeth look fine, but I want them to feel FINE.
Angel

El Cajon, CA

#2 Aug 9, 2010
Susie ... I just traded "up" from an overdenture to a fixed bridge on those same 4 implants. As you know, your denture is held in place by the o-rings that the dentist inserts in those "holes" ... I started with black - got a little movement and so they put in red ones .... my denture stuck like glue. Sometimes it would take a few minutes to get them out - but then I learned a trick on releasing them ... by removing just one of the back ones first and then pulling down with my index fingers over the front 2. If you have the correct o-rings in there your denture shouldn't move at all. Yes, food still got under the overdenture ... it still gets under the bridge ... but, food got caught in between my own teeth too - I've always had to rinse after I eat - that has not changed ... just rinsing bridgework now. Since you already have the implants, and you're not happy with the overdenture, talk to your dentist about the next step, which is a permanent bridge. He will not need to add anymore implants .... or shouldn't anyway if he put the first 4 in the right place. Bridges are as close to your own teeth as you will probably get in this lifetime ... if you're not happy you may as well bite the bullet. Let me know about your o-rings .... I'm curious...
Susie

North Dartmouth, MA

#3 Aug 10, 2010
Susie ... I just traded "up" from an overdenture to a fixed bridge on those same 4 implants. As you know, your denture is held in place by the o-rings that the dentist inserts in those "holes" ... I started with black - got a little movement and so they put in red ones .... my denture stuck like glue. Sometimes it would take a few minutes to get them out - but then I learned a trick on releasing them ... by removing just one of the back ones first and then pulling down with my index fingers over the front 2. If you have the correct o-rings in there your denture shouldn't move at all. Yes, food still got under the overdenture ... it still gets under the bridge ... but, food got caught in between my own teeth too - I've always had to rinse after I eat - that has not changed ... just rinsing bridgework now. Since you already have the implants, and you're not happy with the overdenture, talk to your dentist about the next step, which is a permanent bridge. He will not need to add anymore implants .... or shouldn't anyway if he put the first 4 in the right place. Bridges are as close to your own teeth as you will probably get.
After spending 10,000 for the overdenture (not counting the $8000 for the implants, I hate to then have to spend another $10,000 for a permanent bridge. Right now I have 2 black nd 2 red o-rings. Maybe I'll ask the dentist to replace the 2 other black with red and see if it makes a difference. I'm curious, if your overdenture was tight enough, why did you switch to a permanent denture?
Thanks so much for your quick respsonse. This site is terrific!! Here I can find people who understand.
Angel

El Cajon, CA

#4 Aug 10, 2010
Haha ... oh, Susie .... a denture is a denture is a denture .... doesn't matter how well it's stuck down. I hated the covered palate, the sunken mouth look, the taking them in and out everytime I needed to brush .... the the chomping, the feeling of something forgein in my mouth ALL OF THE TIME. Everything. The snap in was a god-send IN COMPARISON to an immediate .... but it was still a denture and I never could "adjust" .....Yes, upgrading to a bridge is more, but it all breaks down to about the same price as having a root canal/crown on each tooth ... I have spent at least that much before and none of it lasted. Yes -- you can even try changing the o-rings around ... there's also blue and yellow for tighter fits ... try mixing and matching .... if you ask, they might even give you a couple to fool with .... I used a pair of tweezers to change mine out ... the hardest part was pushing them in ... but the unwrapped end of a q-tip stick fixed that. The black o's are actually "starters" and wear out in about 2 weeks ... Really, once you get them to stay still, you will be able to eat anything - and you won't have anymore sore spots ... but it is still a denture. Think about it. Just remember, when your denture gets in there tight ... you have to pop one of the back ones loose first ... I remember sitting in the middle of my bed almost having an anxiety attack thinking I would NEVER get that thing out a couple of times ... NOW it's funny .... then it was frightening ... but they do come out ...
Susie

North Dartmouth, MA

#5 Aug 10, 2010
Thanks for answering, Angel. I am really miserable now! As I was driving this morning, I was kind of biting down on either side, first one side, then the other. The denture would actually move back and forth. Then, one of the teeth broke off (the one in front of one of the o-rings). I got home and frantically called the dentist who told me to come in at 2:40. I go to work at 5. I guess he'll temporarily glue it in. This should not have happened!! This thing is supposed to last 20 years. I'm going to tell him that I'm VERY disappointed in it and am only afraid it will happen again. What would have happened if it were the wknd. I can't put in my temporary. This is it!!
Angel

El Cajon, CA

#6 Aug 10, 2010
Yes! That happened to me - twice! In exactly the same spot and it turns out that they had to remake it ..... They can fix it ... my denture actually cracked from the top of the gum down across the tooth and the tooth fell out that way too. The bite is off. Finally they remade it so that the metal bridge part went OVER the implant hole to take the pressure of the bite. Your problems are identical to mine. You are probably his nightmare as it is very expensive for him to have this remade .... but now you have a repaired denture and it is going to happen again. It doesn't fit. Yes - I know what you mean ... you could make the denture "rock" ...all of the o-rings in the world is not going to stop that because the bite is off. Only temporairly ...maybe when the rings are brand new ... but as they start to wear, the rocking will start again. It is NOT, I repeat, NOT your fault. Tell him that you KNOW the bite is off and he needs to fix it. Meanwhile, I really think you are a candidate for a fixed bridge ... otherwise, I'm afraid that you, like me, will always be on edge about that thing breaking. The first time my "tooth" fell out, I was at a birthday party .... put a real crimp in my social life ... and I was PISSED.
Susie

North Dartmouth, MA

#7 Aug 10, 2010
Just got back from the dentist. He was able to fix it himself...took about 1/2 hour to do what he needed to do. You are right, it is because my bite is off. I am missing 2 molars lower left and only one molar lower right, causing me to favor lower right. He did some adjusting again, so we'll see. I have an appt next Th; hopefully I won't have to see him before. He said that changing the 2 front o-rings won't make a difference (they're the original black). The 2 back rings he had changed to black.
Now, you cannot remove your permanent bridge, correct? So...after the dentist redid your overdenture, you had the bridge done? Do you think that if you had gone to the permanent bridge after the first overdenture, he would have charged you less?? Just curious.
Angel

El Cajon, CA

#8 Aug 10, 2010
You are right. I cannot remove a permanent bridge. It is screwed onto the 4 implants and the holes to get to those implants are in the corresonding teeth ... so, they drill in to remove, and fill in with bonding material to cover again. Right now, like I said, I am wearing a temporary while the permanent is being made. This is all posted on another thread on this forum called Cheer Up New Denture Wearers. You can click down at the bottom of this page to SEE ALL THREADS IN DENTURE FORUM. There is another called New Denture Wearer ... lots of information from others like you and me. To be fair, my dentist told me from the get-go that the worst solution to my needing false teeth was going to be wearing a regular denture and that the optimal solution would be to have a permanent bridge. He also talked about the over denture and implants. He never tried to sway me in any direction. I knew that I could never wear a regular denture .... and when I saw the overdenture I believed I could have lived with that. And I probably could have and would have. Compared to a regular denture it was wonderful. But the pricing is what ultimately made my decision. So, maybe the cost of the overdenture itself could have been eliminated, I don't think the money would have been much different really .... it was about a 10k difference for the bridge and I can see why - it has taken a lot of work to make it ... lot's of lab work, lots of dentist time, molds, x-rays, fittings, etc ... pretty intricate to get things just right .... I don't think the costs are out of line for what has to be done/time/materials .... It is just a lot of money all at once. It's bad enough when the utility bill comes in ... at a few hundred bucks, but when someone says , "okay, that would be about ten thousand dollars ... " that's enough to knock the breath out of you.
So, you didn't say.... after he "fixed" it, did he adjust the bite too? I still don't think you're going to have those black rings very long .... they are starter rings and wear out fast. You should ask him to give you a couple, or at least one so that if you are out some time, or during a weekend if one deteriorates you should have a spare. They do not want to give them to you .... you have to sort of be insistent.
Angel

El Cajon, CA

#9 Aug 10, 2010
BTW Susie ... you should think about a bottom partial at the least on the bottom .... otherwise I think you are always going to have problems because your bite is always going to be off kilter. I wore a bottom partial for a long time and it worked fine .... but, ultimately I had posts put in and permanent bridges are in the back now too.
Susie

North Dartmouth, MA

#10 Aug 10, 2010
The dentist did adjust the bite, but it still feels as if it moves. I asked him to change the black rings to what looks like pink, but he said it wouldn't make a difference because the outer rings are pink. All I know is that I'm not happy. So, if my overdenture was 10k the bridge would be about 20k? So...if I were to now get the bridge I would be out 30k???(of course this doesn't count the 8k for the 4 implants). I seem to recall my dentist saying that I would need more than 4 implants for the permanent bridge.
Angel

El Cajon, CA

#11 Aug 10, 2010
No ... if your dentist put your implants in "right" the first time, you should not need more implants than the 4 you have. Google "All of 4" implants .... don't look at the posts that are older than 6 months ... it is now state of the art and widely accepted. Since you already have the implants I would guess that the bridge would be about an added 10K ... just my guess - Also, like I said, because you don't have any bottom teeth to stablize it equally the rocking will probably still occur - you really need to get a partial, or something .... that's why he doesn't think changing the rings will do any good ... All I know for a fact is that if you can - invest in you. As long as I had a denture that is what consumed me night and day ... of course, my mouth was so tired at night I used to take it out ... God how I hated waking up without teeth. This is so much better .... so much. Soooooo much.
Susie

North Dartmouth, MA

#12 Aug 11, 2010
It looks like the "All of 4" implants procedure is only done in certain places. I'll have to check with my dentist. You sound as though you are already wearing yours. I thought it was still being made. I remember my dentist saying that with the permanent bridge, you don't have the part of the denture over the teeth that replaces your gums, so that area above your mouth might not look as full. I'm not sure I'm explaining this correctly. All I know is that right now my top lip seems thinner.
I don't understand how the bridge would be just an added 10k (approx). Are you saying that you're only paying an additional 10k for your permanent bridge? Is your dentist crediting you with the 10K you already spent?

I wonder if anyone else is interested in our 2way "conversation"??
By the way, I do have 11 of my bottom teeth. I'm missing 2 molars on the bottom left.
Angel

El Cajon, CA

#13 Aug 11, 2010
Since the All on 4 - even though done for a number of years - has just been an accepted method very recently, your dentist may not be experienced in this procedure yet. I'm not sure how to advise you on that. My dentist has a Fellowship in implant specialization ... he's pretty savvy. Yes, your bridge can be made to extend a little above the front "teeth" so that there is some gum so that there is no gap between the teeth and the gums. My top is actually fuller than it was with the denture - Yes, when my teeth were removed my lips got thinner because my mouth sort of sunk into my face. But after wearing this TEMPORARY BRIDGE while my PERMANENT BRIDGE is being made, my lips have sort of molded around them - more like they used to be. I don't know how to explain it, but when your mouth learns that there are teeth back where they should be, your lips change back to almost pre-extraction look. Yes ... since I've already paid for the implants the only thing I have to pay for is the bridge.(2 actually )- they have made a temporary to make sure that a bridge will work, and now that I have worn this one and all the adjustments have been made to it molds have been created from it and a permanent one is being created. Like I said earlier, the temp one that I am wearing now is acrylic, the permanent one will be porcelain. Now, although there is a little gum over the front teeth, there is NO PALATE AT ALL.
There are 2 other people on other threads that are exactly at the same point I am at .... Ali and MerryMac ... both who are on vacation for about another week or so. I believe Ali has the All on 4, but MerryMac had problems with her implants and so has had a couple added due to bone loss. But all 3 of us are wearing our "temporary bridge". And yes, basically the $$ I spent on the overdenture itself was a waste. No credit - the denture was part of the implant procedure. And yes, again, I have been wearing this temporary bridge for a couple of months - but as we speak my permanent is being made .... still 2 appts away ... can't wait!
Also, Thommy is wearing an overdenture ... but doesn't post consistenty .... I believe his fits a bit better than yours, but he is not happy with it.
I'm still gonna guess that if you have a bridge put in, there is going to be some strong suggestions for you to put a partial or implant a bridge or a bridge of some sort where those missing bottom teeth are .... your teeth will need to meet in order not to put undo pressure on one side or another of your mouth.
Susie

North Dartmouth, MA

#14 Aug 11, 2010
I guess that I first have to find out if
my dentist is aware of the "All on 4" bridge. He probably is aware of it but is not using the procedure as yet, since he never made me aware of it. As much as I think I would be much happier with what you have, the thought of having just spent 10k, and now would have to spend another 10k-20k really is upsetting. Can you tell me about how much your "All in 4" bridge cost? You told me it cost more than the overdenture.
Thanks so much for making me aware of others on this site. It has been so helpful.
Angel

El Cajon, CA

#15 Aug 12, 2010
I guess I don't know the exact answer to your question about the price as everything was all inclusive - I can tell you that I have paid out about $30k total ... top & bottom. I would do it again.
I suppose it all boils down to how much you are willing to live with if you KNOW there are other options and if you can finagle a way to pay for it.
Remember millions of people are happy with dentures, and few are lucky enough to have the bridges afixed. If your dentist can't do the All on 4, call around and see who can .... doesn't mean he isn't a great guy, just means he hasn't kept up with implant technology .... if he tells you he doesn't think it will work, it means he doesn't want to go back for more training because this is the latest and greates for implants ... my dentist is going to be at a Eutropean seminar as a guest speaker on this subject this summer .... No one specialized in everything, so you just have to find someone who knows this and doesn't try to talk it down, or talk you out of it ... they want to keep you as a client ....

Since: Oct 09

Plano, TX

#16 Aug 13, 2010
Susie wrote:
After almost 1 year with a temporary top denture which I was miserable with, I finally got my new denture in June. It is held in place with 4 implants. I'm just not happy with it (after spending over 20,000...including implants). I thought it would feel more secure and feel more natural. I've had several adjustments made, but I still feel movement when I bite down. When I eat, I definitely feel movement. I hate that I need to take it out and rinse it with every meal. Otherwise it collects "stuff".. Does anyone else have this problem? How tight and secure can you actually make it? If it's too tight I'm afraid I won't be able to get it out. I just don't think I'll ever get used to it. I hate the "movement" I feel. I guess I thought with the implants, it would feel more natural than it does. I know it can never replace your real teeth. The teeth look fine, but I want them to feel FINE.
Ditto here.
Exactly.
It has been 2 years for me.

You will see me gripe about this endlessly on "Cheer up New Denture Wearers"

Try clicking my name or go to threads dating back for more than a year.

Since: Oct 09

Plano, TX

#17 Aug 13, 2010
Susie,
If you ever find a remedy for this "food stuck-to-teeth and under denture issue", please let me know.

In the past, I have posted to see if anyone knew of how to effectively handle this.

Food sticks to or under the dentures. It looks gross sometimes. And it can be hard to gracefully get off when around others. So I am inhibited in social situations which involve food.

If a private area sink is not available after eating, then I am doomed to have food particles in my mouth the rest of the day.

I hate eating around others in a workplace environment or social situations where I am trapped in this condition with food on/under my teeth.

This aspect alone greatly reduces my quality of life.
Some people cherish a 'denture smile', but I sure do not want to smile when I have been eating celery or spinach or chocolate.

There are many other aspects (like general comfort) which I hate about these implant dentures.

However, I want to address this food issue. It is hard to function normally with food stuck in the mouth after eating.

Please let me know if you find a remedy besides rinsing in a public sink when others are around.
Angel

El Cajon, CA

#18 Aug 13, 2010
I have 2 suggestions ... carry a small mirror (I keep a cut off end of a dental mirror in my pocket) to check your teeth, and you can discreetly swish liquids as you swallow. I have and do. Also, you can take a bottle of water with you into the men's/ladie's room and rinse in a stall .... again, I have and still do if I need to. Keep tissue in your pocket/purse as well, you can wipe your teeth in the stall, in your car or wherever ... hope that helps you....
Susie

Tiverton, RI

#19 Aug 15, 2010
No, I haven't found a remedy to getting rid of food stuck under and around denture, other than using Angel's idea of taking water into lady's room...and keeping a tissue with me. When I'm home, I have to remove denture after I eat anything, other than perhaps something like grapes.
Today I'm dealing with my denture a bit better than on previous days. My husband had to use crazy glue to glue back a tooth that came out for the 2nd time. The 1st time it was put back by the dentist. I called my dentist Fri nite in distress because it had come out again. He called me back 1st thing Sat morning. Since it was already glued back, I'll go in tomorrow am and it will be taken to the lab. I'll have it back by afternoon. Meantime, I'm without top teeth...wonderful!! I wish there were a way to take the temporary and adjust it somehow so you can at least put it in your mouth. After the bar is put in, there is no way. I really HATE it. I really thought the overdenture would almost be like a permanent fixture except you could take it out. WRONG!! I thought the only time I had to take it out was at night to give my gums a breather and to cleanse the denture....WRONG. I thought it would fit more snugly than it does....WRONG. I didn't realize that my tongue would be constantly up against this awful piece of plastic. Although the palate is fairly open now and my sense of taste is returning, I HATE IT!...and I will let my dentist know this tomorrow morning.

Since: Jan 10

Philadelphia, PA

#20 Aug 15, 2010
Thank you so much for sharing your experiences Susie & Thommy - I know it hasn't been easy.
I'm 46 and 7 months post extractions (17), still using the all acrylic partials. Looking forward to the new set but missed my wax fitting so have to wait until Sept 23rd.
I'm trying to figure out where to go from here. Money of course is an issue but I'm willing to take that on, I'm just not sure of the direction to take so I'm really absorbing all of the experiences I'm reading on this board. I certainly don't want to take on unnecessary expenses (due to unneeded steps in the process) and then find out that it isn't really worth it.
I really wish you could sue the crap out of the dentists that don't bother giving you any idea of what you're getting into, the ultimate case of buyers remorse unfortunately.
Wishing you all a good week. Good luck with your dentist tomorrow Susie, I hope he finds a way to make things more comfortable for you.

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