Don't wait on Touro

Don't wait on Touro

There are 22 comments on the Vallejo Times-Herald story from Jun 9, 2008, titled Don't wait on Touro. In it, Vallejo Times-Herald reports that:

Let's open the doors for Touro's Cancer Center before it is too late. In today's economic turmoil of job loss, housing foreclosures, inflated transportation/gas costs, poor planning and of course, bankruptcy ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Vallejo Times-Herald.

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Since: Mar 08

United States

#1 Jun 9, 2008
Hear hear! Touro building their clinic on Mare Island would be the best thing to happen to this city in decades. Let's get it together City Council and put this project on the fast track!
Blue Mann

San Francisco, CA

#2 Jun 9, 2008
Well, here's the self-annointed "mayor of Mare Island", not content to just sign his name. First, Wendell, Mare Island is just as much a part of Vallejo as anywhere else. Secondly, you are considered to be an adversary of heavy marine industrial growth on MI. The high-tech jobs you tout are out of reach to a lot of the young people in Vallejo that would like to have a local career. Blue collar industrial growth will do this, and not impact on your guarded sense of diminished property values. Someone said you are posturing for a possible council run. If that is the case, good luck on securing a seat with a limited vision of clean shirts and lab coats as the future of Vallejo.

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#3 Jun 9, 2008
How much of that $350 Mil will go into the general fund? How much will the City of Vallejo lose by letting this project move forward?

And where, exactly is "Mare Island-Vallejo". Is that like the people in Glen Cove who used to say they were in "Glen Cove" and not Vallejo? Or the people out in Somerset that said they lived in "almost Benicia"? You live in Vallejo. Not Mare Island-Vallejo.
Anonymous

San Francisco, CA

#4 Jun 9, 2008
Is Vallejo the new "Medicine Cabinet" of Bay Area?
http://www.topix.com/forum/source/vallejo-tim...

...OR the new "Geriatric Ward" of the Bay Area?
Cisco Kid

San Francisco, CA

#5 Jun 9, 2008
23 year resident wrote:
How much of that $350 Mil will go into the general fund? How much will the City of Vallejo lose by letting this project move forward?
And where, exactly is "Mare Island-Vallejo". Is that like the people in Glen Cove who used to say they were in "Glen Cove" and not Vallejo? Or the people out in Somerset that said they lived in "almost Benicia"? You live in Vallejo. Not Mare Island-Vallejo.
This is from that new elitist population that sometimes is openly cynical of the average citizen. "They'll smile in your face....."
Anonymous

San Francisco, CA

#6 Jun 9, 2008
Whatever...so you people want to walk away from the Touro Project? Aren't you the ones who keep screaming that Vallejo needs revenue, not BK?

Well here it is: Touro=Revenue.

Get on board or get out of the way.
Cisco Kid

San Francisco, CA

#7 Jun 9, 2008
Anonymous wrote:
Whatever...so you people want to walk away from the Touro Project? Aren't you the ones who keep screaming that Vallejo needs revenue, not BK?
Well here it is: Touro=Revenue.
Get on board or get out of the way.
No one is against the Touro project that I am aware of. It's just that some of the new Vallejo contingent limit their vision of prosperity to only emerging technologies and are openly anti-indutrial for MI, even though they bought their homes knowing there were 2 heavy industrial component already working and a large footprint of the waterfront and drydock areas zoned as heavy industrial. Quigley should open up his concern for "Mare Island-Vallejo" to include oportunities for unskilled or semi-skilled jobs. In our view, Quigley should "get out of the way" as well, if he is going to constantly rail against more industry. Remember, he was the one that led the charge to not reuse the dredge ponds which could have been pouring money into Vallejo today and we would not be in the fix we are in.

Since: May 08

Beautiful Vallejo

#8 Jun 9, 2008
Hurray for Touro. Hurray for Vallejo. Let's support this project, pronto.

And let's not forget that Allied Recycling wants to use a couple of Mare Island drydocks.

Allied Defense Recycling intends to operate two dry docks at the Mare Island Shipyard located on the eastern waterfront of Mare Island immediately adjacent to Mare Island Strait in Vallejo, CA. They will conduct ship repair, building, salvage, and dismantling activities. The tentative permit regulates the discharge of water from Mare Island Strait that washes over the dry docks when flooded to bring a ship in for processing. This water is pumped from the dry docks back into Mare Island Strait.

http://tinyurl.com/6f73bq

Since: Mar 08

Daly City, CA

#9 Jun 9, 2008
Blue Mann,

Are you serious?! God forbid we actually expect kids to get educations and reach for higher jobs.

The U.S. economy has been moving to one that is knowledged-based.

I will lobby or the highest paying jobs that Vallejo can attract. If they're not manual labor lobs, then that's fine. The city does not owe anything to the youth of this city in terms of supplying them blue collar jobs that they don't have to get an education for.
Blue Mann wrote:
The high-tech jobs you tout are out of reach to a lot of the young people in Vallejo that would like to have a local career. Blue collar industrial growth will do this, and not impact on your guarded sense of diminished property values..
XMI

San Francisco, CA

#10 Jun 9, 2008
Golden Retirement wrote:
Hurray for Touro. Hurray for Vallejo. Let's support this project, pronto.
And let's not forget that Allied Recycling wants to use a couple of Mare Island drydocks.
Allied Defense Recycling intends to operate two dry docks at the Mare Island Shipyard located on the eastern waterfront of Mare Island immediately adjacent to Mare Island Strait in Vallejo, CA. They will conduct ship repair, building, salvage, and dismantling activities. The tentative permit regulates the discharge of water from Mare Island Strait that washes over the dry docks when flooded to bring a ship in for processing. This water is pumped from the dry docks back into Mare Island Strait.
http://tinyurl.com/6f73bq
Now this is front burner vision. As I understand it, the shipbuilder that had all the problems with Lennar a couple years ago is about to buy a property out of state to build a shipyard and get ships in the water ASAP. MI has four drydocks to accomodate ADR and another large marine tenant. ADR will be tied up with dismantling for a few years, and the other outfit is ready to build, so I hope we can recall them back to MI. There is abundant prosperity with accelerated marine uses, the Touro project, and maybe a battelship if they can get a pond. Seems like things are starting to get a little better already, and hope is is the air.
In the Know

Concord, CA

#11 Jun 9, 2008
Vallejo should not make over demands of the developer. The developer is reviewing the cost at the moment and asking them selves why the develepor should pay for things not associated directly to the project. In thinking it should be the city making such improvements.

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#12 Jun 9, 2008
Anonymous wrote:
Whatever...so you people want to walk away from the Touro Project? Aren't you the ones who keep screaming that Vallejo needs revenue, not BK?
Well here it is: Touro=Revenue.
Get on board or get out of the way.
Have you seen any numbers for Touro=revenue (into the City of Vallejo)? What types of tax breaks and subsidies is Touro really going to get? There certainly won't be a sales tax revenue stream. Will it be a business license? Will it just be spill over revenue?

What types of businesses won't be able to be located on Mare Island after the Touro porject begins? The pessimist in me says that we will lose more than we gain.$350 Mil sounds great, until you find out that it's an out of area contractor doing the work. How many local jobs will be created? How many new residents will it bring in? Will the people being hired by Touro live in Vallejo? Or will the locate in Napa/Fairfield/Concord/Am Can, etc?

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#13 Jun 9, 2008
In the Know wrote:
Vallejo should not make over demands of the developer. The developer is reviewing the cost at the moment and asking them selves why the develepor should pay for things not associated directly to the project. In thinking it should be the city making such improvements.
Replace "city" with "Lennar", and we'd be getting somewhere. Lennar should fund those improvements as part of the costs associated with running the Island development. That's why they exist

Since: Mar 08

San Rafael, CA

#14 Jun 9, 2008
The great irony is that Vallejo leaders for decades have hungered for folks with disposable income to move to Vallejo, to buy upscale homes, to frequent fine restaurants and shop along the waterfront. Yes, Vallejo has been a blue collar town, but these leaders saw the "potential" of a city on the bay attracting a different kind of resident.

Should anyone be surprised that when folks with a bit of money buy their new homes, now on Mare Island, they would express their preferences for a community that more clearly reflects their interests and values? And should anyone be surprised that the blue collar element in town would feel offended by that sentiment?

No, the folks who bought expensive homes on Mare Island with visions of shops, restaurants and passing sailboats at their waterfront, don't want industrial development and operating dredge ponds next door. Any surprise here, folks?

You can't have it both ways. If the best Vallejo can ever have is Mare Island shipyard re-warmed, then you need to tell your City leaders to stop inviting developers who want to market to folks who want something different. They can always move to Marin though I appreciate if you can get Tiburon at Vallejo prices anyone would consider that a wise investment. But Vallejo isn't Tiburon and the blue collar folks who are offended that carpet baggers from San Francisco want to make it so are not a happy brew.

HERE lies the roots of the tension that make Vallejo such a remarkably challenging place to market, whether your a developer OR the City Council trying to entice the developer to make an investment. Have fun working this one out...
In the Know

Concord, CA

#15 Jun 9, 2008
23 year resident wrote:
<quoted text>
Replace "city" with "Lennar", and we'd be getting somewhere. Lennar should fund those improvements as part of the costs associated with running the Island development. That's why they exist
You go anywhere else and you get cities donating the land, working with the communities to get the project. In Solano we say hey you wnat ot do business in Solano then you pay your way and often we loose.

Since: May 08

Beautiful Vallejo

#16 Jun 9, 2008
23 year resident wrote:
<quoted text>
Have you seen any numbers for Touro=revenue (into the City of Vallejo)? What types of tax breaks and subsidies is Touro really going to get? There certainly won't be a sales tax revenue stream. Will it be a business license? Will it just be spill over revenue?
What types of businesses won't be able to be located on Mare Island after the Touro porject begins? The pessimist in me says that we will lose more than we gain.$350 Mil sounds great, until you find out that it's an out of area contractor doing the work. How many local jobs will be created? How many new residents will it bring in? Will the people being hired by Touro live in Vallejo? Or will the locate in Napa/Fairfield/Concord/Am Can, etc?
The property will be fully taxable. You missed the Planning Commission meeting on June 2nd, but you can view a video of it and get answers to some of your questions. The video is on the city website. Very upbeat. No pessimism. Check it out.
Bankrupt to the Bone

Oakland, CA

#17 Jun 9, 2008
Wow, the same thing could have been said about Walmart with far greater benefits for Vallejoans in terms of added shopping choices less gas consumption and a hefty sales revenue for the city.

Since: Mar 08

Vallejo

#18 Jun 9, 2008
Bankrupt to the Bone wrote:
Wow, the same thing could have been said about Walmart with far greater benefits for Vallejoans in terms of added shopping choices less gas consumption and a hefty sales revenue for the city.
1. Sales tax from Wal-Mart isn't huge. In its best year the old one only brought in $700K, with typical revenue of around $400K. Given the impacts on police and fire, and the impacts of traffic, the break even point for the city is low. The state sucks up most sales tax money, not the city or county.
2. Wal-Mart builds its buildings as cheap as possible, which also reduces the property tax. A hospital on the same footprint would result in higher property tax revenue.
3. Wal-Mart's jobs are low paying, low skilled. Hospital jobs, while some are low paying, carry a much higher percentage of skilled, well played workers. This community would be better served by providing training for low skilled workers to become nurses and orderlies than more dime a dozen retail positions.
4. A hospital will have far more "spill over" than a Wal-Mart. Cancer treatment is longer term. Families stay local during big crisis (at least mine does), paying for hotel rooms (more tax revenue there) and eating at restaurants, for days at a time. Downtown would benefit, as it is close to Mare Island and is the obvious place to check out if you are out of town.
5. Touro is not asking the city to change its laws to let it build. Other retailers won't stay away due to Touro (like the Nugget).
6. Heavy reliance on retail impacts the city's finances more when a recession hits. Touro will help diversify our economy.

Since: Mar 08

San Rafael, CA

#19 Jun 9, 2008
Bankrupt to the Bone wrote:
Wow, the same thing could have been said about Walmart with far greater benefits for Vallejoans in terms of added shopping choices less gas consumption and a hefty sales revenue for the city.
You might wish to educate yourself...

http://www.timesheraldonline.com/guestopinion...

WalMart shafted the city rather than the other way round...

Since: Mar 08

Union City, CA

#20 Jun 10, 2008
Jen Lemus,

I have to believe another big-box retailer moving into Vallejo would simply cannibalize sales from the others.

Walmart will project sales figures and toss out a tax revenue number, but does anybody ever interview the other big-box retailers to find out how much they would have to cut back?

As you've pointed out, there are many negative aspects that come with a big-box retailer. And the analysis is far more complicated than just looking at sales projections walmart announces to get the deal approved.
Jen Lemus wrote:
<quoted text>
1. Sales tax from Wal-Mart isn't huge. In its best year the old one only brought in $700K, with typical revenue of around $400K. Given the impacts on police and fire, and the impacts of traffic, the break even point for the city is low. The state sucks up most sales tax money, not the city or county.
.

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