McCartney wants animal lab out of Ariz.

Full story: Florida Times-Union

Paul McCartney, in a letter to the governor of Arizona, says he doesn't want drug developer Covance Inc.
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Knock Knock

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#1
Mar 9, 2006
 
Sir Paul shouldn't worry about Arizona and stick to England. While I don't really have any pro or con feelings about these labs, I do know alot of great healing drugs have come from testing. Call me blind, ignorant, whatever you want. But to know that testing will save lives later on or bring into new medicines that we need, I say go for it! What are a few mice when it comes down to the thousands of lives it could help?
nadia

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#2
Mar 13, 2006
 
death from natural diseases helps keep the world's population stable. you can't save everybody and even if you could that would cause more poverty, over populated countries, and definitely more crime.
Jenn Brost

Canada

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#3
Mar 13, 2006
 
nadia wrote:
death from natural diseases helps keep the world's population stable. you can't save everybody and even if you could that would cause more poverty, over populated countries, and definitely more crime.
Exactly! There are many other negative outcomes that are the result of humans trying to find cures for all the diseases present in human populations. New diseases are constantly emerging due to the development of resistant strains in bacteria and viruses. Drug companies will always be making millions and millions, especially with the emergence of new diseases. It's a continuous cycle that never ends. Besides, I wouldn't be surprised if our actions lead to our own demise.
Knock Knock

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#4
Mar 13, 2006
 
Jenn Brost wrote:
<quoted text>

Exactly! There are many other negative outcomes that are the result of humans trying to find cures for all the diseases present in human populations. New diseases are constantly emerging due to the development of resistant strains in bacteria and viruses. Drug companies will always be making millions and millions, especially with the emergence of new diseases. It's a continuous cycle that never ends. Besides, I wouldn't be surprised if our actions lead to our own demise.
Okay whatever fanasty world you both want to live in, you both can stay. Suppose, I would never wish this on anyone, but suppose you or someone in your family was sick with some disease. They had to test some rats to see if it would work on you because it might kill you. They decide to inject it into a test rat that has your blood or DNA, because you would have a 50/50 chance if they use it and don't do it right! So would you have them do the mouse, or would you rather take the odds? You are a total Hippocrite if you say give it to the mouse! At the same time you would be a liar if you said you or your family would take the odds. Anyone in their right mind would rather see the mouse die instead of taking a chance like that!!!
Animal research (and I'm not saying all research so all you animal rights people don't need to answer) does alot of this kind of testing. But in real life, just how much "over the counter" medicine and medicine that is prescribed by a doctor has been tested through research? I'm not saying it's right but only that it is neccessary in order for health.
All testing for make-up, and stuff like that I totally agree is not right and shouldn't be done.
Me want cookie
Jenn Brost

Canada

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#5
Mar 13, 2006
 
It's impossible to escape the desire of modern day medicine. I'm sure anyone would take a drug in order to live a long and healthy life. However, humans are going beyond the limit and this is a problem. This is upseting the natural balance of nature and it is highly probable that there will be many consequences in future populations. Just because a drug helps a rat, doesn't mean it will help humans. Every host is different and there have been cases where people die taking drugs that were supposed to heal them!
Knock Knock

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#6
Mar 13, 2006
 
Jenn Brost wrote:
It's impossible to escape the desire of modern day medicine. I'm sure anyone would take a drug in order to live a long and healthy life. However, humans are going beyond the limit and this is a problem. This is upseting the natural balance of nature and it is highly probable that there will be many consequences in future populations. Just because a drug helps a rat, doesn't mean it will help humans. Every host is different and there have been cases where people die taking drugs that were supposed to heal them!
My main thought is all the good that has come from testing for Medical research. I'm sure everyone has either a Yeah or Nay on this. Like I said before I don't think putting make up or lipstick on rats to see what skin reaction they get should be done, or to see if they drop a cow 10 feet, then 20 to see how many bones break, and stuff like that. But for medical I'm all for it.
Yes some work and some don't. But when the odds for giving it to a child versus and adult, or a Morphine like drug to a child. I would rather the doctors and scientists used their skills and knowledge and testing of rats to find out.
Hopefully as the years and time goes by we can eliminate such testing. Hopefully we will just clone new body parts, but this will never happen without test subjects. Look at the cloned sheep and horse, this all started with the testing of mice and such. This is the future and our childrens future. Things are alot better for them now than in our time, things for their kids will be better than theirs were.
Just something else to think about. Me want cookie...
Allen

Sun City, AZ

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#8
Mar 21, 2006
 
Jenn Brost wrote:'This is upseting the natural balance of nature and it is highly probable that there will be many consequences in future populations.'

Really, you know what the natural balance of nature is!
Shazam, write a book! I don't think any reputible scientists would toute that they KNOW what the natural balance of nature is. You should contact Oprah! Do it now!

Does Sir Paul even go to his ranch anymore in east Tucson. HMMM? Once his wife, Linda, died there, not Santa Barbara, I bet he hasn't.
ashley

United States

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#9
May 3, 2006
 
many people are blind, i was one of them, until i did my research. although animal testing provides awesome details about how medicines help certain species, well mice and monkeys are not a human species, so the only way to know for sure is to test on a human. well nobody wants to give up their life to science, so using alternatives like cell cultures and computer models(since we are so smart!!) and other things that are out there is the only way to know. Plus, have u seen the amount of cruelty these animals suffer?? its disgusting, they are put under conditions that would never happen to a real human, they are just being wasteful and hateful!
goodiemart

La Quinta, CA

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#10
May 4, 2006
 

Judged:

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Jenn Brost wrote:
<quoted text>
Exactly! There are many other negative outcomes that are the result of humans trying to find cures for all the diseases present in human populations. New diseases are constantly emerging due to the development of resistant strains in bacteria and viruses. Drug companies will always be making millions and millions, especially with the emergence of new diseases. It's a continuous cycle that never ends. Besides, I wouldn't be surprised if our actions lead to our own demise.
I would expect on a biotech site this comment to be flamed heavily. lol let me add one VERY IMPORTANT ASPECT to this conversation please. LAB RATS WOULD NOT EXIST AT ALL, THEY DO NOT EXIST IN NATURE AT ALL, AND ARE MADE IN LABS SPECIFICALLY FOR LAB TESTING FOR OUR BENEFIT. WHATEVER SHORT LIFE WE CHOOSE TO GIVE THEM THEY ARE LIKELY GREATFUL FOR AND WOULD NOT KNOW OR EXIST OTHERWISE ANYHOW. People seem to act like scientists go out into a field and collect free roaming field mice and then hook them up to torture devices. There is a HEAVY DEGREE OF HUMANE AND CONSIDERATE ACTIVITY IN ALL LABS FOR TEST SPECIMINS.
MUSCIANS NEED TO STICK TO PLAYING MUSIC AND STFU ABOUT POLITICS. OTHERWISE QUIT YOUR MUSIC CAREER AND LOBBY AS A POLITICIAN AND ACTUALLY GET SOMETHING DONE RATHER THEN JUST BITCH ABOUT IT.
Also please note I love Beatles but Paul, How's that Zorcor working for your cholesterol? Ohh and lets not forget that Cialis you take to keep that smile on your face. Hypocrite /grunts /coughs :)
Lisa

Manassas, VA

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#11
Jul 12, 2006
 
Your comment that anyone should only concern himself with his own little portion of the world is part of the problem, not the solution.
It is sad that you hate yourself so much, I am sure if you try very hard to open your mind you may not remain so stupid. If you could try to get therapy for that maybe you could stop hating everyone else.

Animal testing is more expensive, and less reliable than cruelty free methods, but it has remained in use due to the greed of the laboratories and the sluggishness of the FDA.
I hate stupid people wrote:
Sir Paul shouldn't worry about Arizona and stick to England. While I don't really have any pro or con feelings about these labs, I do know alot of great healing drugs have come from testing. Call me blind, ignorant, whatever you want. But to know that testing will save lives later on or bring into new medicines that we need, I say go for it! What are a few mice when it comes down to the thousands of lives it could help?
Lisa

Manassas, VA

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#12
Jul 12, 2006
 
So, children born to slaves should be greatful just to be alive no matter what? That does not make sense. It does not matter why they exist, it matters what is being done to them. You must have no idea what happens in the labs. I have seen undercover video footage of primates and dogs being beaten, punched, and shaken and screamed at because they resisted the laboratory worker, as anyone being tortured would. There is no defense for this. A superior species does not victimize. Thank God for Sir Paul McCartney.
goodiemart wrote:
<quoted text>
LAB RATS WOULD NOT EXIST AT ALL, THEY DO NOT EXIST IN NATURE AT ALL, AND ARE MADE IN LABS SPECIFICALLY FOR LAB TESTING FOR OUR BENEFIT. WHATEVER SHORT LIFE WE CHOOSE TO GIVE THEM THEY ARE LIKELY GREATFUL FOR AND WOULD NOT KNOW OR EXIST OTHERWISE ANYHOW.
woohoo

Cheltenham, UK

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#13
Jul 12, 2006
 
Frankly who cares what Macca thinks. He's far too big for his boots.
CINEMA 15

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#14
Jul 23, 2006
 

Judged:

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a rat is still a living creature, although if they are being used to help find a cure for a seriuos desease, then im for it, but if they are using it for make-up and lipstick than we dont need to kill the little creatures, women look better all natural anyway, that is my opinion i could be wrong.74
Pharma QA

Hunt Valley, MD

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#15
Jul 24, 2006
 

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Lisa wrote:
...primates and dogs being beaten, punched, and shaken and screamed at because they resisted the laboratory worker, as anyone being tortured would. There is no defense for this.<quoted text>
I work in this industry and I can tell you that almost all of you have absolutely no idea about what you're spouting off about! Extending life is unnatural? Healing the infirm is unacceptable? Improving the quality of life for the seriously ill isn't worth disturbing your conscience a bit? I have a suggestion; work as a volunteer in a critical care unit, an AIDs clinic, or a pediatric ward. Look into the eyes of the dying & tell them that a rat is more important than their pain. Look into the face of a parent who's learned their infant child has a serious congenital disease, & tell them you oppose necessary animal testing. Look at your spouse, child, or parent & decide how much their life or health is worth to you. Oh it's so easy to act holier than thou when your loved ones are well.

Sure there are wrongs occuring in this world. Quit acting as if you know what you're talking about and LEARN. Or better yet, participate, act to improve conditions...but just stop talking about things as if you understand. Computer models? Sure, for elementry studies...but toxicity, bioavailability, or dose tolerance studies? Never. No animal labs in my state? Condemn an entire industry on the evidence of an undercover video? Geez, I bet you never saw anybody kick a dog either...or do you denounce every pet owner as a result as well?
PhysiolDoc

Manchester, UK

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#16
Aug 16, 2006
 
Pharma QA wrote:
<quoted text>
I work in this industry and I can tell you that almost all of you have absolutely no idea about what you're spouting off about! Extending life is unnatural? Healing the infirm is unacceptable? Improving the quality of life for the seriously ill isn't worth disturbing your conscience a bit? I have a suggestion; work as a volunteer in a critical care unit, an AIDs clinic, or a pediatric ward. Look into the eyes of the dying & tell them that a rat is more important than their pain. Look into the face of a parent who's learned their infant child has a serious congenital disease, & tell them you oppose necessary animal testing. Look at your spouse, child, or parent & decide how much their life or health is worth to you. Oh it's so easy to act holier than thou when your loved ones are well.
Sure there are wrongs occuring in this world. Quit acting as if you know what you're talking about and LEARN. Or better yet, participate, act to improve conditions...but just stop talking about things as if you understand. Computer models? Sure, for elementry studies...but toxicity, bioavailability, or dose tolerance studies? Never. No animal labs in my state? Condemn an entire industry on the evidence of an undercover video? Geez, I bet you never saw anybody kick a dog either...or do you denounce every pet owner as a result as well?
The smartest thing that I have read on this board, and what a surprise that it comes from someone who is fully clued up on all of the issues related to this topic. Those of you who suggest that there are simple alternatives to the use of animals, such as cell cultures or modelling, clearly have just read that somewhere and are preaching it without any understanding. Cell cultures are not totally physiologically relavent, they are a starting point yes, but this work is carried out long before animals are in the picture. Do you think that the scientific community is unintelligent and wicked enough to dismiss the use of your suggested tools and instead opt for using animals first? Not a chance. There is a major focus on the reduction, refinement and replacement of the use of animals in medical research these days, and anywhere there is a suitable alternative to an animal, it HAS TO BE USED. There are regulations in place to ensure the wellbeing of all lab animals, and you will find that any hint of mistreatment is punished with greater severity than the are the activists that promote violent campaigns against this research when they are targetting these companies and individuals.

If you oppose this research then in the eyes of yourselves you are hypocrites every time you take any sort of treatment for any ailment.
Dinae

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#17
Aug 16, 2006
 
I hate stupid people wrote:
Sir Paul shouldn't worry about Arizona and stick to England. While I don't really have any pro or con feelings about these labs, I do know alot of great healing drugs have come from testing. Call me blind, ignorant, whatever you want. But to know that testing will save lives later on or bring into new medicines that we need, I say go for it! What are a few mice when it comes down to the thousands of lives it could help?
So you think they only test on mice? DO YOUR RESEARCH YOU IGNORAMUS...DO YOU KNOW WHAT GOES ON IN THOSE ANIMAL LABS? HOW DARE YOU SAY IT'S OK TO TORTURE HELPLESS DEFENSELESS CREATURES! THE WORLD DOESN'T NEED PEOPLE LIKE YOU.
Dinae

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#18
Aug 16, 2006
 
PhysiolDoc wrote:
<quoted text>
The smartest thing that I have read on this board, and what a surprise that it comes from someone who is fully clued up on all of the issues related to this topic. Those of you who suggest that there are simple alternatives to the use of animals, such as cell cultures or modelling, clearly have just read that somewhere and are preaching it without any understanding. Cell cultures are not totally physiologically relavent, they are a starting point yes, but this work is carried out long before animals are in the picture. Do you think that the scientific community is unintelligent and wicked enough to dismiss the use of your suggested tools and instead opt for using animals first? Not a chance. There is a major focus on the reduction, refinement and replacement of the use of animals in medical research these days, and anywhere there is a suitable alternative to an animal, it HAS TO BE USED. There are regulations in place to ensure the wellbeing of all lab animals, and you will find that any hint of mistreatment is punished with greater severity than the are the activists that promote violent campaigns against this research when they are targetting these companies and individuals.
If you oppose this research then in the eyes of yourselves you are hypocrites every time you take any sort of treatment for any ailment.
How casually you comment on people kicking dogs - you S.O.B. and I'll just bet you're one of them. I have more love for animals than for most people I know. If you have EVER mistreated an animal or used one for lab diagnostics - I hope someday the same is done to you. SHAME ON YOU AND ANYONE WHO SIDES WITH YOU.
PhysiolDoc

Manchester, UK

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#19
Aug 17, 2006
 
Dinae wrote:
<quoted text>
How casually you comment on people kicking dogs - you S.O.B. and I'll just bet you're one of them. I have more love for animals than for most people I know. If you have EVER mistreated an animal or used one for lab diagnostics - I hope someday the same is done to you. SHAME ON YOU AND ANYONE WHO SIDES WITH YOU.
You bet very unwisely and are misguided. Please can you point out to me where I actually commented in any way on the subject of people kicking dogs? Oh no, I DIDN'T. I never mentioned it or alluded to the fact that this is at all acceptable.

There seems to be some confusion here, as there is amongst many people who protest against the use of animals in medical research. I commented that the use of animals in medical research is necessary. This is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from the issue of animal cruelty and their mistreatment in any way. These are different issues that always seem to get confused into the same arguement. There is no excuse for the mistreatment of animals in any capacity. As I said, there are rules in place to try to stop this kind of thing. It is a great shame if people flout these rules and do commit acts of cruelty, and they deserve to be heavily punished. Just because animals are used in research does not mean that they should be allowed to be subjected to cruelty.

I have a dog and if anyone were to kick him I would kick them a thousand times harder.

Please read things properly and have a think before you respond to posts in the future.
sky

AOL

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#20
Sep 24, 2006
 
people steal our pets from our backyard for money . and sell them to these labs, they can tell when a 500 dollar dog comes in there that it was stolen and they dont care. they are heartless and there killing our pets that we hold dear to our hearts, and encouraging dog thief.
LOVE FOR OUR ANIAMALS

AOL

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#21
Sep 26, 2006
 
i hope the people in these labs read the BIBLE. IT DESCRIBE WHAT HELL IS . it 21 miles deep shaped in a body form left legs right legs and so on. it says that each part is alittle different but it desriped pits of fire that would burn those sent there. they can see there souls magets and worms all over them. demons of all kinds every where. it is pure torture and your in pain you will feel every thing as we do here on earth only much worse. for thoses of you torturing GODS beloved creatures that he gave us to enjoy and love remember this. WHAT COMES AROUND GOES AROUND.

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