Early Indicators of Autism Spectrum Disorders

Jan 9, 2013 Full story: Examiner.com 448

It is well established that early identification and intervention are critical determinants in the course and outcome of autism spectrum disorders .

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ric99

Horncastle, UK

#280 Jan 29, 2013
A study at University of California, Davis showed that baby boys who went on to develop regressive autism had larger than normal brains from the age of four months, but babies who developed normally, and those who were later diagnosed with other types of autism, had normal brain sizes at four months of age.

Since: Jan 07

Location hidden

#281 Jan 29, 2013
And of that study: 53 children reportedly have early-onset autism, whereas the other 61 have regressive autism including 22 girls among their study participants, 22 percent of boys with regressive autism have extremely large brains and 5 percent of the boys with early-onset autism have brains that large. No differences in brain volume in any of the girls with autism, regardless of whether they had early-onset or regressive autism.
Bizarre

Australia

#282 Jan 29, 2013
@ friend:
Heres what we know so far. In normal developing male babies the brain size is bigger in comparison to normal sized females without autism:
http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/men-wom...

However males with regressive autism have larger than nornal brain size than male babies that do not have regressive autism:
http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2012/02/17/brai...

Yet...females regardless of regressive or onset autism brain size stays the same. So theres an abnormal growth in brain size in male babies with autism than normal due to the findings above. Boys will always differ from females because of our sexual reproduction make up (bio/bio chem)?

I wonder if that is why baby females with autistic brain size stays the same?
Vaccines Cause Autism

Winnipeg, Canada

#283 Jan 29, 2013
ric99 wrote:
A study at University of California, Davis showed that baby boys who went on to develop regressive autism had larger than normal brains from the age of four months, but babies who developed normally, and those who were later diagnosed with other types of autism, had normal brain sizes at four months of age.
Could indicate the split between clasical and regressive autism. But those covering it up won't go there and want the public to believe they are all born with it. You'll notice all had issues AFTER 4 months, and AFTER vaccines.

Since: Jan 07

Location hidden

#284 Jan 29, 2013
Either or would be considered a possible clue, but neither or combined affects enough of those with autism, making it premature to consider them anything but interesting. They're certainly not the main theories out there.
Bizarre wrote:
@ friend:
Heres what we know so far. In normal developing male babies the brain size is bigger in comparison to normal sized females without autism:
http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/men-wom...
However males with regressive autism have larger than nornal brain size than male babies that do not have regressive autism:
http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2012/02/17/brai...
Yet...females regardless of regressive or onset autism brain size stays the same. So theres an abnormal growth in brain size in male babies with autism than normal due to the findings above. Boys will always differ from females because of our sexual reproduction make up (bio/bio chem)?
I wonder if that is why baby females with autistic brain size stays the same?
Elias

Glen Waverley, Australia

#287 Jan 29, 2013
friend wrote:
.
The 2 theories you offered are but 2 of many theories out there.
<quoted text>
I chose those two because I found scientific literature supporting them.
Elias

Glen Waverley, Australia

#288 Jan 29, 2013
friend wrote:
IQ actually stands for intelligence quotient. It doesn't predict intelligence, it measures it.
It doesn't matter if those with autism are visual learners other than the fact there is no test yet other than the IQ test to measure cogntive ability which are given...>
Yes this pretty much aligns with what I said...
friend wrote:
Just as the blind and deaf, given adapted materiel, a child with autism can also learn but a 'gifted' person with autism is called a savant, and the majority with autism are not savants..>
I think we can seperate giftedness and Savants. Savants are a few people who can "demonstrate" one or more exceptional skills. I was suggesting however, that all autistic kids have gifts even if they are unable to express themselves, this ties in with their ability to be visual thinkers and incredible memory for detail. All I am saying is that despite what we think, all kids on the spectrum have enriched lives due to their ability to map their environment.
friend wrote:
Most with autism are going to score low on the IQ testing. Baron-Cohen and Attwood did a lot of work concerning aspergers, of which those with aspergers don't have lower IQ's. And it's more or less their theory. In practice use, those who have autism can learn social skills, coping with sensory issues and language/communication. Like any other disability, those with autism can and often do learn to compensate. Again, low IQ doesn't not have to predict the futures of those wuth autism or their capabilities or potential.>
Getting back to the Attwood/Baron-Cohen data, they use IQ to predict the ability to integrate into mainstream community and (perhaps most importantly) live independently. The criteria they use are the ones you mention (learning social skills, coping and communication). I'm not 100% sure about Baron-Cohen, but I know Attwood looked equally at Aspergers and high functioning autistic individuals.
Elias

Glen Waverley, Australia

#289 Jan 29, 2013
friend wrote:
Clostridia is the same as Clostridium. It's main and research pertaining to mice and autism was done by Dr. Sidney Finegold.
Here's a link which looks at these theories
http://questioning-answers.blogspot.com/2012/...
Sorry I stand corrected :)
Elias

Glen Waverley, Australia

#290 Jan 29, 2013
friend wrote:
There's actually 25 theories; Propionic acid is very under- studied and not well thought of as main cause and there are tests for Clostridium.
As for the neurons, based on a study of which they sliced up brain tissue from six autistic children and seven typical children who had passed away, it's thought by some that genetic systems controlling the growth of new neurons go haywire, and brain cells divide much more frequently than usual, accounting for the excess neurons found in the PFC of autistic children. The extra neurons in the autistic brain grow physically larger and form more connections than in a typical child's brain. This theory is those with autism have larger heads than typical kids.
There's also studies out there that show 15 percent of autistic children have smaller than usual heads, a condition known as microcephaly.
This probably demonstrates the need for more wider studies to be more representative of a wider spectrum of autistic individuals. Regarding microcephaly I think this is one example (of which there are many) where a comorbid condition is often mistakenly linked to autism when it's perhaps coincidental. Another one is seizures.
Elias

Glen Waverley, Australia

#291 Jan 29, 2013
friend wrote:
And of that study: 53 children reportedly have early-onset autism, whereas the other 61 have regressive autism including 22 girls among their study participants, 22 percent of boys with regressive autism have extremely large brains and 5 percent of the boys with early-onset autism have brains that large. No differences in brain volume in any of the girls with autism, regardless of whether they had early-onset or regressive autism.
OK! you are an academic...
Elias

Glen Waverley, Australia

#292 Jan 29, 2013
Bizarre wrote:
<quoted text>
Lets hypothetically go with number 2 for now...
Are you referring to bottled baby milk? If so do you believe it maybe an adverse reaction towards the milk perhaps? Since clostridia is found in gut (digestion)- which produces proprionic acid..a dietary problem which causes adverse reaction?
And then maybe number 1... happens at a later stage after the intake of milk?
Can there be a 3rd possibility the mums intake of diary products? So my guess can make more sense lol....hopefully.
According to the research done in University College London (and highlighted in a recent four corners program)
http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2012/0...

A unusually high number of children with autism had gut bacteria called Clostridium dificile in their gut that converts carbohydrates into a short chain fatty acid called propionic acid. extremely high levels of propionic acid are neurotoxic to the brain. The treatment for C.difficile is with vancomycin.

In addition 4 corners highlighted US mother Ellen Bolte described how her son's autism reversed when he took Vancomycin antibiotics to reduce clostridium gut bacteria but returned at the end of antibiotic therapy.
Elias

Glen Waverley, Australia

#293 Jan 29, 2013
In reference to how Clostridium gets into the gut, that appears to be a mystery, one possibility is childhood antibiotics that clears the normal flora and allows Clostridium to colonise the gut.

Since: Jan 07

Location hidden

#294 Jan 29, 2013
Clostridium difficile isn't such a mystery. It's more or less a stomach bug, and it's common. It causes severe diarrhea and other intestinal disease when competing bacteria in the gut flora have been wiped out by antibiotics. A very small percentage of the adult population, C. difficile bacteria naturally reside in the gut, which then 'could' account for those who have autism and also have this issue. Other people accidentally ingest spores of the bacteria while they are patients in a hospital, and this widely affects those who work in medical fields. But the main cause is use of antibiotics, and the signs and symptom's for it has nothing in common to autism. If this was the theory, it wouldn't be autism for those affected. Clostridium difficile has a known cause.
Now there is that idea of Desulfovibrio which runs with that same theory, is an organism that "breathes" sulfate rather than oxygen, changes a sulfate compound such as a hydrogen sulfate, hydrogen sulfide is a known toxic compound. However, Desulfovibrio commonly found in aquatic environments and used to clean contaminated soils. The bacteria can be traced back 3.5 billion years. These theories have not provided the means of contact of either Desulfovibrio and Clostridium difficile to make this credible.
Elias

Glen Waverley, Australia

#295 Jan 29, 2013
friend wrote:
Clostridium difficile isn't such a mystery. It's more or less a stomach bug, and it's common. It causes severe diarrhea and other intestinal disease when competing bacteria in the gut flora have been wiped out by antibiotics. A very small percentage of the adult population, C. difficile bacteria naturally reside in the gut, which then 'could' account for those who have autism and also have this issue. Other people accidentally ingest spores of the bacteria while they are patients in a hospital, and this widely affects those who work in medical fields. But the main cause is use of antibiotics, and the signs and symptom's for it has nothing in common to autism. If this was the theory, it wouldn't be autism for those affected. Clostridium difficile has a known cause..
I'm not really sure C.difficile is part of the normal flora of babies but perhaps it's there, I haven't studied microbiology for some years so I will take your views with some respect.
My referral to a "mystery" was whether C.difficile enters the baby in utero from the mother. Some research points also points to colic infections and babies been given herbal remedies such as gripe water as responsible for wrecking the babies normal flora. Then of course theres antibiotics. I am in agreement that C.difficile is there already, it is however fairly resistant to antibiotics and may take advantage to propogate in the child.
I referred to the Bolte case (see my 4 corners post) as the child developed autistic symptoms following his first dosage of antibiotics as a baby. My own daughter was around 3 when she first had antibiotics. I recall the week she was sick in bed her sensory integration went haywire and she began her sensitivty to certain sounds like birds. It was a real coincidence because following her illness she started crying whenever we sneezed or coughed.
I have put her on a low propionic diet (avoid processed foods)and have given her fatty acid and vitamin supplements plus music therapy and she has shown a marked improvement. One curious observation we made is her favourite meat is ham. She prefers ham to fish, egg, red meat and white meat. Of course pork in Australia is notorious for being high in vancomycin. Coincidence? I don't know.
Bizarre

Australia

#296 Jan 29, 2013
friend wrote:
Either or would be considered a possible clue, but neither or combined affects enough of those with autism, making it premature to consider them anything but interesting. They're certainly not the main theories out there.
<quoted text>
Would be good to see what the real cause of autism is.

Since: Jan 07

Location hidden

#297 Jan 29, 2013
Infants who have celiac disease untreated often appear autism-like, and it left untreated can cause cognitive and developemental delays as well. In a case such as above (Bolte) when there is actual bacteria present causing the symptoms, and after treatment the child progresses, that's not autism. The bacteria was more than likely robbing the child of nutrients as would happen in an infant who had celiac.

My son had chronic GI issues, and it started when he cut his first tooth at 4 months old. He had many tests. Some allergies cant be known without a stomach and gut biopsy. Some intestinal deformities can cause these same-type symptons, and cant be known with out an endoscopy. My sons chronic symptoms resulted in the need for an endoscopy top and bottom as well as unless I see ir medically explained, I wasn't going to change anything in diet. We did find out some things we didn't know, nothing however to account for the chronic symptoms. I changed nothing in his diet. It was all caused by emotions, or there the lack of and holding them in. As soon as he was able to express himself, his symptoms went away.

That said, your child or mine, or the Bolte child does not account for the majority of those who have autism. If anything, those that have Clostridium difficile or even Desulfovibrio would be an additional, testable medical illness.

Since: Jan 07

Location hidden

#298 Jan 29, 2013
One can spend all their time trying to find out the real cause, but those answers aren't easily coming. I myself believe the answer is in genetics, and for some causing a predisposition to exposures. There has to be something genetic for why autism affects more boys than girls.

Without knowing the cause, there's a lot that can be provided to the child who has autism and children with autism progress just like any other kid does. They just progress differently. And autism isn't the end of the world. I can think of a lot worse.
Bizarre wrote:
<quoted text>
Would be good to see what the real cause of autism is.
Bizarre

Australia

#299 Jan 29, 2013
friend wrote:
One can spend all their time trying to find out the real cause, but those answers aren't easily coming. I myself believe the answer is in genetics, and for some causing a predisposition to exposures. There has to be something genetic for why autism affects more boys than girls.
Without knowing the cause, there's a lot that can be provided to the child who has autism and children with autism progress just like any other kid does. They just progress differently. And autism isn't the end of the world. I can think of a lot worse.
<quoted text>
The first time I heard about autism was when I volunteered at a childcare center years ago. Also I know someone who has a child with autism, none of the siblings has autism. Like you mentioned they progress & things could be worse.
Bizarre

Australia

#300 Jan 29, 2013
-> There are other things that can be worse.
Bizarre

Australia

#301 Jan 29, 2013
Elias wrote:
<quoted text>
According to the research done in University College London (and highlighted in a recent four corners program)
http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2012/0...
A unusually high number of children with autism had gut bacteria called Clostridium dificile in their gut that converts carbohydrates into a short chain fatty acid called propionic acid. extremely high levels of propionic acid are neurotoxic to the brain. The treatment for C.difficile is with vancomycin.
In addition 4 corners highlighted US mother Ellen Bolte described how her son's autism reversed when he took Vancomycin antibiotics to reduce clostridium gut bacteria but returned at the end of antibiotic therapy.
Ive heard about natural bacterium in the gut & when taking antibiotics it takes away some bacterium, someone who was studying med told me that awhile back.

Its interesting how the bacterium returns after the person stops taking medication.

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