If Health Law Is Overturned, What Wil...

If Health Law Is Overturned, What Will Liberals Do?

There are 4941 comments on the thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com story from Mar 28, 2012, titled If Health Law Is Overturned, What Will Liberals Do?. In it, thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com reports that:

If the Supreme Court strikes down all or part of President Obama 's health care law , it will have unraveled a legislative compromise that many liberals had viewed with suspicion from the beginning.

In one of the ironies of recent politics, Mr. Obama was a late convert to the merits of the individual mandate that now appears to be in danger of being declared unconstitutional.

But the president’s embrace of the mandate — and his willingness to abandon a so-called public option to get a health care deal — was a hard pill to swallow for many of his Democratic supporters.

The Affordable Care Act promises to provide health insurance to millions who lacked it. But it also stops far short of the idea that health care is a basic right for everyone living in the country. And it embraces the market-based system of private health care delivery that has long existed in America.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com.

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#4933 Aug 29, 2012
A forum that Churm & co would love: Aussies supporting Obama. haha

http://www.topix.com/forum/us/politics/TCV80A...
Churmudgeon

Bexar, AR

#4934 Aug 29, 2012
August 29, 2012 – CALIFORNIA – An unusual swarm of hundreds of mostly small earthquakes has struck Southern California over the last three days and shaken the nerves of quake-hardy residents, but scientists say the cluster is not a sign a larger temblor is imminent. The earthquakes, the largest of which measured magnitude 5.5, began on Saturday evening and have been centered near the town of Brawley close to the state’s inland Salton Sea, said Jeanne Hardebeck, research seismologist for the U.S. Geological Survey. Scientists were monitoring the earthquake cluster, which continued on Tuesday, to see if it approaches the Imperial Fault, about three miles away. A destructive and deadly earthquake of magnitude 7.0 struck on that fault in 1940, she said. “We don’t have any reason to believe that the (earthquake) storm is going to trigger on the Imperial Fault, but there’s a minute possibility that it could,” Hardebeck said, adding that the swarm of quakes was not moving closer to that fault. The Brawley quake cluster, which is caused by hot fluid moving around in the Earth’s crust, is different than a typical earthquake, in which two blocks of earth slip past each other along a tectonic fault line. After that kind of an earthquake of magnitude 5.5 or above, there is a 5 percent chance a larger quake will follow, Hardebeck said. But she added the same kinds of probability estimates were not possible with earthquake clusters caused by the movement of hot fluid. “We understand them even less than we understand normal earthquakes,” Hardebeck said, adding that scientists do not know why a cluster of earthquakes will occur at one time rather than another. The swarm led to jangled nerves in Brawley, a town of about 25,000 residents 170 miles southeast of Los Angeles near the border with Mexico. “It’s pretty bad. We had to evacuate the hotel just for safety,” Rowena Rapoza, office manager of a local Best Western Hotel, said -------- Something is up with the planet and it isnt being caused by mans activities.
Jax

Shingle Springs, CA

#4935 Aug 30, 2012
Most the Drones that are pushing for Obama Care haven't the slightest clue what is really is and means.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#4936 Aug 30, 2012
Jax wrote:
Most the Drones that are pushing for Obama Care haven't the slightest clue what is really is and means.
"
Patient's Bill of Rights

The Affordable Care Act puts consumers back in charge of their health care. Under the law, a new “Patient’s Bill of Rights” gives the American people the stability and flexibility they need to make informed choices about their health.

The Patient's Bill of Rights:

Provides Coverage to Americans with Pre-existing Conditions: You may be eligible for health coverage under the Pre-Existing Condition Insurance Plan.
Protects Your Choice of Doctors: Choose the primary care doctor you want from your plan’s network.
Keeps Young Adults Covered: If you are under 26, you may be eligible to be covered under your parent’s health plan.
Ends Lifetime Limits on Coverage: Lifetime limits on most benefits are banned for all new health insurance plans.
Ends Pre-Existing Condition Exclusions for Children: Health plans can no longer limit or deny benefits to children under 19 due to a pre-existing condition.
Ends Arbitrary Withdrawals of Insurance Coverage: Insurers can no longer cancel your coverage just because you made an honest mistake.
Reviews Premium Increases: Insurance companies must now publicly justify any unreasonable rate hikes.
Helps You Get the Most from Your Premium Dollars: Your premium dollars must be spent primarily on health care – not administrative costs.
Restricts Annual Dollar Limits on Coverage: Annual limits on your health benefits will be phased out by 2014.
Removes Insurance Company Barriers to Emergency Services: You can seek emergency care at a hospital outside of your health plan’s network.

Since the Patient’s Bill of Rights was enacted, the Affordable Care Act has provided additional rights and protections.

The health care law:

Covers Preventive Care at No Cost to You: You may be eligible for recommended preventive health services. No copayment.
Guarantees Your Right to Appeal: You now have the right to ask that your plan reconsider its denial of payment."

healthcare.gov

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#4937 Aug 30, 2012
Jax wrote:
Most the Drones that are pushing for Obama Care haven't the slightest clue what is really is and means.
"What This Means for You

You select the doctor: The new rules permit you to choose any available participating primary care provider as your doctor and to choose any available participating pediatrician as your child’s primary care doctor.

No health plan barriers to OB-GYN services: The new rules also prohibit health plans from requiring a referral from a primary care provider before you can seek coverage for obstetrical or gynecological (OB-GYN) care from a participating OB-GYN specialist.


Access to out-of-network emergency room services: In the past, some health plans would limit payment for emergency room services provided outside of a plan’s preselected network of emergency health care providers. Or they would require you to get your plan’s prior approval for emergency care at hospitals outside its networks. This could mean financial hardship if you get sick or injured while away from home.

The new rules prevent health plans from requiring higher copayments or co-insurance for out-of-network emergency room services. The new rules also prohibit health plans from requiring you to get prior approval before seeking emergency room services from a provider or hospital outside your plan’s network."

healthcare.gov

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#4938 Aug 30, 2012
Oh yeah, a bunch of people received REBATES from their health insurance plans last month from the 80/20 or 85/15 rule. That requires health insurance companies to spend 80-85% AT LEAST of their premiums on BENEFITS for their customers.

Oh wow, what a horrible idea! Bwahahahahahahahahahhaa

Oh yeah, a bunch of young adults have health insurance on their parents plan now.

Oh wow, what a horrible idea!
Bwahahahahahahahahahhahaha

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#4939 Aug 30, 2012
Jax wrote:
Most the Drones that are pushing for Obama Care haven't the slightest clue what is really is and means.
"What This Means for You

If your plan is subject to these new requirements, you may not have to pay a copayment, co-insurance, or deductible to receive recommended preventive health services, such as screenings, vaccinations, and counseling.

For example, depending on your age, you may have access — at no cost — to preventive services such as:

Blood pressure, diabetes, and cholesterol tests

Many cancer screenings, including mammograms and colonoscopies

Counseling on such topics as quitting smoking, losing weight, eating healthfully, treating depression, and reducing alcohol use

Regular well-baby and well-child visits, from birth to age 21

Routine vaccinations against diseases such as measles, polio, or meningitis

Counseling, screening, and vaccines to ensure healthy pregnancies

Flu and pneumonia shots - Visit Vaccines.gov to learn more"

healthcare.gov

OMG! The sky is falling down! Americans might get...you know..healthier. OK, Christie the Republiscum Fatso is getting less healthy.

I say, what, a year before he has a major coronary or stroke. The RNC should really get the idiot on a diet before something irreparable happens to the tub and a half of lard.
neutral observer

West Palm Beach, FL

#4940 Aug 30, 2012
Obomneycare is Mitt's and Barack's baby. The very idea that it is somehow in danger is... not a dime's worth of difference really.

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#4941 Aug 30, 2012
Jax wrote:
Most the Drones that are pushing for Obama Care haven't the slightest clue what is really is and means.
What it means is a start for getting things right with a health system that singled out different sections of a population to help and ignored the rest. That is not a health system.

In all other countries a health system looks after 100% of their population or none at all. They do it by making everyone pay who can. No opting out because you are a fit 20 something but everyone pays so the burden of health care is also shared by everyone.

There are certain things about the republican movement these days locked into a last century mode of thinking that is completely out of sync with world opion. In a different time it wasn't the case but now with tea party movements etc it has gone haywire. No logical solutions to anything except rant on about socialism and dismiss all other 21st century issues that conflict with their ideology. Why, because the solutions are the exact opposite to their beliefs.
As I have stated many times before if the world could vote for the next US president Romney would not even see the light of day. The future of America if Romney gets elected will be the same as Russia no question about it. Where the so called filter down effect flows offshore or to the rich elite until a point in time when it all collapses like a pack of cards. No one wants to see this happen especially those western countries aligned with the US in both culture & economics but unfortunately the right in America are so blind to the outside they can't see the wood from the trees.
Churmudgeon

Mountain Home, AR

#4942 Aug 31, 2012
August 31, 2012 – GERMANY - Premier Wen Jiabao told German Chancellor Angela Merkel that Europe must “strike a balance” between fiscal tightening and measures to promote growth.“Europe’s debt crisis has continued to worsen, giving rise to serious concerns in the international community. Frankly, I am also worried,” he said. His comments mark a shift in Chinese policy. Beijing has until now backed austerity across Euroland, but the severity of China’s own downturn has begun to rattle policymakers. Exports of electronic goods to Italy crashed 43pc in July from a year earlier, and sales to Germany fell 11pc. Caixin reported that processing trade to Europe fell 21pc. The country’s two largest shipping groups COSCO and China Shipping both reported drastic losses today. The Shanghai composite index of stocks threatened to break below 2000 today, the lowest since the Lehman crisis. Mr. Wen asked for clarification over whether Italy and Spain would adopt “comprehensive rescue measures” needed to unlock the EU bail-out machinery – and open the door to bond purchases by the European Central Bank. Mrs Merkel said eurozone debt remains a “safe investment.” Yet it is far from clear whether China can come to the rescue. Simon Derrick from BNY Mellon said China’s foreign reserves peaked at $3.31 trillion in February, and have since fallen by over $100bn.“China is no longer in the market to buy bonds,” he said. Morgan Stanley said there are signs of incipient capital flight from China. The yuan has fallen almost 1pc since April, and off-shore markets are pricing in further falls over the next year. The risk for Europe is that China could become a net seller of European bonds if forced to run down reserves to shore up the yuan. Germany has reasons of its own for going easy on Club Med austerity. The policy has finally begun to boomerang, with German exports falling by 14pc to Spain and 8pc to Italy. David Owen from Jefferies Fixed Income said Germany’s IFO business climate index has fallen to levels that normally mean recession.-------- Ok (china is no longer in the market to buy bonds) Where is Obama going to borrow the 40 cents on every dollar needed to fund the current spending?
Robert

Lees Summit, MO

#4943 Sep 2, 2012
OregonSUX wrote:
<quoted text>
"
Patient's Bill of Rights
The Affordable Care Act puts consumers back in charge of their health care. Under the law, a new “Patient’s Bill of Rights” gives the American people the stability and flexibility they need to make informed choices about their health.
The Patient's Bill of Rights:
Provides Coverage to Americans with Pre-existing Conditions: You may be eligible for health coverage under the Pre-Existing Condition Insurance Plan.
Protects Your Choice of Doctors: Choose the primary care doctor you want from your plan’s network.
Keeps Young Adults Covered: If you are under 26, you may be eligible to be covered under your parent’s health plan.
Ends Lifetime Limits on Coverage: Lifetime limits on most benefits are banned for all new health insurance plans.
Ends Pre-Existing Condition Exclusions for Children: Health plans can no longer limit or deny benefits to children under 19 due to a pre-existing condition.
Ends Arbitrary Withdrawals of Insurance Coverage: Insurers can no longer cancel your coverage just because you made an honest mistake.
Reviews Premium Increases: Insurance companies must now publicly justify any unreasonable rate hikes.
Helps You Get the Most from Your Premium Dollars: Your premium dollars must be spent primarily on health care – not administrative costs.
Restricts Annual Dollar Limits on Coverage: Annual limits on your health benefits will be phased out by 2014.
Removes Insurance Company Barriers to Emergency Services: You can seek emergency care at a hospital outside of your health plan’s network.
Since the Patient’s Bill of Rights was enacted, the Affordable Care Act has provided additional rights and protections.
The health care law:
Covers Preventive Care at No Cost to You: You may be eligible for recommended preventive health services. No copayment.
Guarantees Your Right to Appeal: You now have the right to ask that your plan reconsider its denial of payment."
healthcare.gov
Yes, you are eligible to get healthcare with pre existing conditions. But? Will you be able to afford it? Nothing in the bill tells insurance companies how much they can charge. And with that can you afford 2500 per month in premiums? Think before you type. You won't sound so stupid and liberal!!!!
Robert

Lees Summit, MO

#4944 Sep 2, 2012
OregonSUX wrote:
<quoted text>
"What This Means for You
If your plan is subject to these new requirements, you may not have to pay a copayment, co-insurance, or deductible to receive recommended preventive health services, such as screenings, vaccinations, and counseling.
For example, depending on your age, you may have access — at no cost — to preventive services such as:
Blood pressure, diabetes, and cholesterol tests
Many cancer screenings, including mammograms and colonoscopies
Counseling on such topics as quitting smoking, losing weight, eating healthfully, treating depression, and reducing alcohol use
Regular well-baby and well-child visits, from birth to age 21
Routine vaccinations against diseases such as measles, polio, or meningitis
Counseling, screening, and vaccines to ensure healthy pregnancies
Flu and pneumonia shots - Visit Vaccines.gov to learn more"
healthcare.gov
OMG! The sky is falling down! Americans might get...you know..healthier. OK, Christie the Republiscum Fatso is getting less healthy.
I say, what, a year before he has a major coronary or stroke. The RNC should really get the idiot on a diet before something irreparable happens to the tub and a half of lard.
According to the Obamacare premium calculator, My family would pay more in premiums to the gov than I pay for my company health plan. So saying it would save me money is crap. But if Obamacare is not reeled in that will be my reality. And besides why should I pay more when there are people who don't take care of themselves. You know the 3 pack a day smokers, who care more about their sticks than life itself. The poor will always be poor because of their lifestyle. Those that want to succeed try harder and most leave poverty behind. But people on welfare mostly stay on welfare as a way of life. Those people deserve nothing. They have earned nothing for themselves and deserve nothing. In the United States you have the right to succeed and fail. But not the right to just take!
xxxrayted

Brook Park, OH

#4945 Sep 2, 2012
Robert wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, you are eligible to get healthcare with pre existing conditions. But? Will you be able to afford it? Nothing in the bill tells insurance companies how much they can charge. And with that can you afford 2500 per month in premiums? Think before you type. You won't sound so stupid and liberal!!!!
Liberals love to tie a ribbon around dog sht and call it a gift.

They are not deep thinkers. For instance, who is going to pay for all these people with preexisting conditions? Duh. What happens when an insurance company cannot produce profit? Duh!

Commie Care was designed specifically to eventually wipeout all private insurance. Insurance companies invest your premiums to make profit that helps offset the money they must pay out for medical expenses. This is why private insurance is successful and government is a failure when it comes to healthcare. But if insurance companies are forced (which Democrats love to do) to payout 80% of their collected premiums, then they have little to invest and less people to investigate fraud which helps keep premiums down.

So now with all these additional expenses, and limitations on what insurance companies can do with their money, when they need to increase rates, they are stopped by Commie Care. So what choice do they have? Go out of business.

This is how dictators work. They plant bombs all over the field, and by the time these bombs to off, they are so far away that they don't even hear the explosion.
Robert

Lees Summit, MO

#4946 Sep 2, 2012
My company went to a High Deductible Plan for which we pay 199 per pay period, and the first 3000 is mine. My daughter contracted type 1 Diabetes last year. So my costs are higher. My company is self insured. If Obamacare goes into effect fully next year, my company will probably drop coverage all together and pay the penalty instead. With that being said, what will my premium be for my daughter? God only knows? I hope and pray we do not have to find out!!
xxxrayted

Brook Park, OH

#4947 Sep 2, 2012
Robert wrote:
My company went to a High Deductible Plan for which we pay 199 per pay period, and the first 3000 is mine. My daughter contracted type 1 Diabetes last year. So my costs are higher. My company is self insured. If Obamacare goes into effect fully next year, my company will probably drop coverage all together and pay the penalty instead. With that being said, what will my premium be for my daughter? God only knows? I hope and pray we do not have to find out!!
That is a problem because over 80% of Americans get their healthcare coverage through their employer. Now some employers do want to get out of coverage because it will be too costly and too unpredictable. What a mess these jokers made out of our healthcare system.

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#4948 Sep 2, 2012
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
That is a problem because over 80% of Americans get their healthcare coverage through their employer. Now some employers do want to get out of coverage because it will be too costly and too unpredictable. What a mess these jokers made out of our healthcare system.
The reason you are stuck with this system because the Republicans don't like change so they wanted everything through the Insurance companies. If you had just raised the tax and provided universal base rate health care it would have been a much simpler system. Thats how everyone else does it. The insurance companies would still survive because those ppl who don't like to wait or line up at a emergency dept would take out extra insurance. Besides that here the government penalises the high earners if they don't so its a win win. The insurance companies get the business because ppl don't want to pay the extra tax which would be the cost of the policy anyway.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#4949 Sep 2, 2012
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
That is a problem because over 80% of Americans get their healthcare coverage through their employer. Now some employers do want to get out of coverage because it will be too costly and too unpredictable. What a mess these jokers made out of our healthcare system.
FDR did, you got that right.
Robert

Lees Summit, MO

#4950 Sep 3, 2012
OzRitz wrote:
<quoted text>
The reason you are stuck with this system because the Republicans don't like change so they wanted everything through the Insurance companies. If you had just raised the tax and provided universal base rate health care it would have been a much simpler system. Thats how everyone else does it. The insurance companies would still survive because those ppl who don't like to wait or line up at a emergency dept would take out extra insurance. Besides that here the government penalises the high earners if they don't so its a win win. The insurance companies get the business because ppl don't want to pay the extra tax which would be the cost of the policy anyway.
Nothing is free OZ. Never has been and never will be. Someone always pays. So when the rich find a loop hole to pay less, or we start to run out of rich ppl, then what genius? You libs just think the the job creators will lay down and give in. That is not how it works. If they do not make enough money they cut benefits, jobs. Benefits like healthcare, retirement. You know the very thing Obamacare is supposed to fix? You libs never get it. Eventually you have more unemployed living on gov dime! I diots!
Churmudgeon

Mountain Home, AR

#4951 Sep 3, 2012
Robert wrote:
<quoted text>
Nothing is free OZ. Never has been and never will be. Someone always pays. So when the rich find a loop hole to pay less, or we start to run out of rich ppl, then what genius? You libs just think the the job creators will lay down and give in. That is not how it works. If they do not make enough money they cut benefits, jobs. Benefits like healthcare, retirement. You know the very thing Obamacare is supposed to fix? You libs never get it. Eventually you have more unemployed living on gov dime! I diots!
I Agree. I think it was Marge Thactcher that stated The problem with socialism is you eventually run out of other peoples money to spend. The USA govt and a host of other countries govt has already reached that point. So the USA govt borrows 40 cents of every dollar it spends. Some other places have run out of ctrdit and cannott borrow enough to cover the entitlements. So the parsites are revolting.
xxxrayted

Brook Park, OH

#4952 Sep 3, 2012
OzRitz wrote:
<quoted text>
The reason you are stuck with this system because the Republicans don't like change so they wanted everything through the Insurance companies. If you had just raised the tax and provided universal base rate health care it would have been a much simpler system. Thats how everyone else does it. The insurance companies would still survive because those ppl who don't like to wait or line up at a emergency dept would take out extra insurance. Besides that here the government penalises the high earners if they don't so its a win win. The insurance companies get the business because ppl don't want to pay the extra tax which would be the cost of the policy anyway.
Let me ask, do you think a multi-million dollar company goes through insurance companies for coverage? Do you think hospitals cover their workers through insurance companies?

It may surprise you, but such companies have their own funds to cover their employees. It's called being self-insured. Donald Trump is self-insured, Rush Limbaugh is self-insured, Warren Buffet is self-insured and so are many people who have enterprises or individuals with a lot of money.

So what this law does is force them into the insurance system that they don't want or need. To do otherwise would cost them a lot of money in fines, or as the SC said, taxes. That hampers business.

Republicans are for change, but positive change. Not 2,800 pages of nonsense that nobody can figure out other than it gives bureaucrats all kinds of power.

In the US, everything has to do with politics. Very few pragmatic decisions are made. For instance, do you know why we don't have an all government healthcare system? Because if we did, that would eliminate lawsuits. Trial lawyers are one of the largest contributors to the Democrat party come election time. You think Obama Care is for the good of the people? Hell no. It creates tens of thousands of new jobs for government workers. The larger the government, the happier the Democrat.

There are nearly a dozen things we can do to make our healthcare system better and more affordable, but it isn't more government involvement--it's less.

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