The Unkindest Cut? Gay Men v. Male Ci...

The Unkindest Cut? Gay Men v. Male Circumcision

There are 927 comments on the EDGE story from May 30, 2011, titled The Unkindest Cut? Gay Men v. Male Circumcision. In it, EDGE reports that:

In what will be a first for the nation, San Francisco voters will consider a controversial ballot measure to ban circumcision for males under the age of 18 in the November election.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at EDGE.

“Reality is better than truth.”

Since: Nov 09

Indianapolis

#909 Aug 23, 2012
That report refers to ADULTS and voluntary circumcision, in countries that have a major problem with HIV (third world countries, where proper hygiene is far less common. Nowhere do they say it involves all countries or all STD's. The simple fact is that HIV is quite fragile; good hygiene removes it from the skin.
freethinker1957 wrote:
<quoted text>
tell that to the wold health organization

“God made in the image of man”

Since: May 07

Sausalito, CA

#910 Aug 27, 2012
freethinker1957 wrote:
<quoted text>
tell that to the wold health organization
There are a lot of misconceptions about that first-ever "WHO Guidelines on HIV Prevention for Men Who Have Sex with Men and Transgender People," released in 2011.

I read it very carefully and quote here two very pertinent statements from it on the subject of circumscision in Africa as a means of preventing HIV:

• "It is not clear if the benefits outweigh the risks at this point in time, as male circumcision, like any other operation, carries some risks."
• "There are significant concerns regarding its acceptability and implementation among MSM in different cultural settings."

So people such as yourself who cite only those parts of the report that suit their own opinions on circumcision deliberately ignore many of the negatives. As an African, I can tell you that many African cultures do NOT favor routine circumcision and would much rather opt for the sanitary conditions enjoyed among the more advanced European nations, where circumcision is not commonly performed.

FaFoxy

“ WOOF !”

Since: Oct 10

Coolidge, AZ

#911 Aug 27, 2012
Umninimuzi wrote:
<quoted text>
There are a lot of misconceptions about that first-ever "WHO Guidelines on HIV Prevention for Men Who Have Sex with Men and Transgender People," released in 2011.
I read it very carefully and quote here two very pertinent statements from it on the subject of circumscision in Africa as a means of preventing HIV:
• "It is not clear if the benefits outweigh the risks at this point in time, as male circumcision, like any other operation, carries some risks."
• "There are significant concerns regarding its acceptability and implementation among MSM in different cultural settings."
So people such as yourself who cite only those parts of the report that suit their own opinions on circumcision deliberately ignore many of the negatives. As an African, I can tell you that many African cultures do NOT favor routine circumcision and would much rather opt for the sanitary conditions enjoyed among the more advanced European nations, where circumcision is not commonly performed.
The Roman Empire had hot and cold running water in people's homes, and flush toilets 2000 years ago. Why can't Africa have that today ?

FaFoxy

“ WOOF !”

Since: Oct 10

Coolidge, AZ

#912 Aug 27, 2012
worth reading:

http://healthland.time.com/2012/08/21/if-circ...

"If rates of circumcision among infant boys continue to drop in the U.S., it could lead to billions of dollars in added health care costs and increases in sexually transmitted infections among men, according to a recent study by Johns Hopkins researchers."

“Reality is better than truth.”

Since: Nov 09

Indianapolis

#913 Aug 27, 2012
PARTS of the empire had those amenities; they depended on locale and workforce. Of course, modern africa doesn't have hordes of slaves to do the labor. But there needed to be a ready source of water and the geography to allow it. Moreover, the deserts have expanded over the past thousand-plus years, which isn't helpful either.

Potable water is becoming increasingly scarce, especially in third-world countries. It is becoming the petroleum of the new economic millennium.
FaFoxy wrote:
<quoted text>
The Roman Empire had hot and cold running water in people's homes, and flush toilets 2000 years ago. Why can't Africa have that today ?

“Reality is better than truth.”

Since: Nov 09

Indianapolis

#914 Aug 27, 2012
And if we lopped off women's breast at birth, they could never get breast cancer. Surgery to prevent possible health problems is not justified when you consider that bbies DIE frmo circumcision, or g infections, or develop scar tissue, etc. The article seems not to be concerned with that immediate and documented dangers of the procedure.

What the article doesn't tell you--actually, it doesn't really back up anything it proposes--is that UTI's don't come from foreskins, but from hygiene issues. It's certainly easier to slice off part of a baby than it is to teach a child to retract the foreskin and clean, and it's also fu**ing lazy parenting, which is far more common than UTI's.

The focus of the article is based on MCE patients, which are hardly representative of the entire population.

STD's don't transmit if you use safe sex, foreskin or no foreskin.
FaFoxy wrote:
worth reading:
http://healthland.time.com/2012/08/21/if-circ...
"If rates of circumcision among infant boys continue to drop in the U.S., it could lead to billions of dollars in added health care costs and increases in sexually transmitted infections among men, according to a recent study by Johns Hopkins researchers."

“God made in the image of man”

Since: May 07

Sausalito, CA

#915 Aug 27, 2012
FaFoxy wrote:
worth reading:
http://healthland.time.com/2012/08/21/if-circ...
"If rates of circumcision among infant boys continue to drop in the U.S., it could lead to billions of dollars in added health care costs and increases in sexually transmitted infections among men, according to a recent study by Johns Hopkins researchers."
Once again ... why are those billions of dollars in added health care costs NOT reported among European nations? On the contrary, their health care costs are on average significantly LOWER than ours, even though circumcision is NOT routinely practiced there!

Once again ... you are not examining the issue objectively, but selectively cite only those isolated points that tend to favor your position, ignoring everything else.

“God made in the image of man”

Since: May 07

Sausalito, CA

#916 Aug 27, 2012
Two things need to be emphasized in this debate:

1. FACT: The European nations rarely circumcise, yet they do NOT report higher incidences of STDs nor elevated health care costs as a result.

2. FACT: Most Africans, given a choice between having parts of their penises cut off as a means of preventing HIV transmission, or given access to clean running water and sanitary housing conditions, would much rather opt for the latter.(Who wouldn't?!)

Only a fool would argue for cutting off body parts so they don't have to be cleaned, or because they may become diseased at some future date. Well ... a fool, or someone with a religious or cultural agenda unrelated to health.
Four Skin Divers

United States

#917 Aug 27, 2012
cpeter1313 wrote:
And if we lopped off women's breast at birth, they could never get breast cancer. Surgery to prevent possible health problems is not justified when you consider that bbies DIE frmo circumcision, or g infections, or develop scar tissue, etc. The article seems not to be concerned with that immediate and documented dangers of the procedure.
What the article doesn't tell you--actually, it doesn't really back up anything it proposes--is that UTI's don't come from foreskins, but from hygiene issues. It's certainly easier to slice off part of a baby than it is to teach a child to retract the foreskin and clean, and it's also fu**ing lazy parenting, which is far more common than UTI's.
The focus of the article is based on MCE patients, which are hardly representative of the entire population.
STD's don't transmit if you use safe sex, foreskin or no foreskin.
<quoted text>
"teach a child to retract the foreskin and clean"

For a normal parent, just teaching a child to wipe his ass is unpleasant. Only a homosexual parent would feel comfortable demonstrating to a child how to "retract the foreskin". Hell, a homosexual parent might even find that task erotic.

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

#918 Aug 27, 2012
So, what you're telling us is that you'd rather whack it off than teach your child basic hygiene? You're so hung up about male parts that you can't even talk about it?

Unfortunately for you, even circumcised foreskins collect debris. You're going to have to teach your kid to clean anyway.
Four Skin Divers

United States

#919 Aug 27, 2012
nhjeff wrote:
So, what you're telling us is that you'd rather whack it off than teach your child basic hygiene? You're so hung up about male parts that you can't even talk about it?
Unfortunately for you, even circumcised foreskins collect debris. You're going to have to teach your kid to clean anyway.
You gays seem pretty casual about showing someone how to retract their foreskin. To a straight, it's not as simplistic as retracting a landing gear.

FaFoxy

“ WOOF !”

Since: Oct 10

Coolidge, AZ

#920 Aug 27, 2012
nhjeff wrote:
So, what you're telling us is that you'd rather whack it off than teach your child basic hygiene? You're so hung up about male parts that you can't even talk about it?
Unfortunately for you, even circumcised foreskins collect debris. You're going to have to teach your kid to clean anyway.
There's evidence that circumcision helps prevent disease.

As far as the U.S. is concerned, I think a boy should be allowed to make up his own mind, and be able to have it done, with or without his parents' permission, when he's 16 years old.

Women sometimes have their breasts removed to prevent disease, rite ?

“Reality is better than truth.”

Since: Nov 09

Indianapolis

#921 Aug 27, 2012
Awwwww...it's unpleasant? THEN DON'T FU**ING WELL HAVE KIDS! It's your goddamn job to teach them how to take care of themselves. That includes dealing with their own bodies. Menstruation can be messy, but you still have to teach girls how to cope with it.

If you find a child's foreskin erotic, then you better not have kids.
Four Skin Divers wrote:
<quoted text>
"teach a child to retract the foreskin and clean"
For a normal parent, just teaching a child to wipe his ass is unpleasant. Only a homosexual parent would feel comfortable demonstrating to a child how to "retract the foreskin". Hell, a homosexual parent might even find that task erotic.

“Reality is better than truth.”

Since: Nov 09

Indianapolis

#922 Aug 27, 2012
To a mature person, it should be; it's standard human equipment. If you eroticize the penis in every situation,the problem is yours, not anyone else's. Grow the hell up.
Four Skin Divers wrote:
<quoted text>
You gays seem pretty casual about showing someone how to retract their foreskin. To a straight, it's not as simplistic as retracting a landing gear.
Four Skin Divers

United States

#923 Aug 27, 2012
cpeter1313 wrote:
To a mature person, it should be; it's standard human equipment. If you eroticize the penis in every situation,the problem is yours, not anyone else's. Grow the hell up.
<quoted text>
Says the gay who thinks that the human wrecktum is an erogenous zone.

“God made in the image of man”

Since: May 07

Sausalito, CA

#924 Aug 27, 2012
FaFoxy wrote:
<quoted text>
There's evidence that circumcision helps prevent disease.
As far as the U.S. is concerned, I think a boy should be allowed to make up his own mind, and be able to have it done, with or without his parents' permission, when he's 16 years old.
Women sometimes have their breasts removed to prevent disease, rite ?
Exactly -- I, for one, would definitely defend an adult's right to do to his own body whatever he wishes, regardless of my personal opinions about circumcision. But it is absurd for a parent to cut pieces of his or her infant's body parts when it is not really necessary.

“God made in the image of man”

Since: May 07

Sausalito, CA

#925 Aug 27, 2012
Four Skin Divers wrote:
<quoted text>
Says the gay who thinks that the human wrecktum is an erogenous zone.
Many herterosexuals share that thought. It would appear that you are not very experienced at sex -- strictly missionary position for you, is it?? Maybe you should consider limiting your opinions to subjects on which you can talk authoritatively, such as knitting or stamp collecting, perhaps?
Four Skin Divers

United States

#926 Aug 27, 2012
Umninimuzi wrote:
<quoted text>
Many herterosexuals share that thought. It would appear that you are not very experienced at sex -- strictly missionary position for you, is it?? Maybe you should consider limiting your opinions to subjects on which you can talk authoritatively, such as knitting or stamp collecting, perhaps?
I will defer to your expertise regarding anal sex and aknowledge you as the authority on same.

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

#927 Aug 28, 2012
Four Skin Divers wrote:
<quoted text>
You gays seem pretty casual about showing someone how to retract their foreskin. To a straight, it's not as simplistic as retracting a landing gear.
You seem to be awfully afraid of a penis. What's up with that?
Four Skin Divers

United States

#928 Aug 28, 2012
nhjeff wrote:
<quoted text>
You seem to be awfully afraid of a penis. What's up with that?
You seem to be very comfortable with another person's penis. What's up with that?

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