New York Contemplates Closing All Sex...

New York Contemplates Closing All Sex Clubs

There are 19 comments on the www.edgechicago.com story from Jan 15, 2008, titled New York Contemplates Closing All Sex Clubs. In it, www.edgechicago.com reports that:

The rising infection rates of young gay men in New York City is causing controversy and even panic. The New York Times weighed in on the numbers in a lead editorial published Monday, Jan. 14. The Times noted that, "When the disease was new and terrifying, the gay community helped change behavior by preaching loudly against taking sexual risks." And now, "Silence seems to be winning the day."

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.edgechicago.com.

West Coaster

Los Angeles, CA

#1 Jan 15, 2008
In the early days, openess and talk, education and awareness worked at changing the face of HIV/AIDS. Closing Bath Houses and Sex Clubs will not work. This move will push the issues further underground. Does any one think that banning these clubs will stop anyone from have sex.... unprotected or otherwise? The article sites many of these infections are in the Black and Latino population. These are the two biggest groups dealing with acceptance within their own communities right now. MORE openess and dialogue are what is needed now. Hiding in the darkness is where disease grows the fastest.

“One Bigot at a Time”

Since: Apr 07

DC

#2 Jan 15, 2008
I'll start by saying that I have not yet formulated an opinion on the closure of sex venues for public health reasons. But. West Coaster, do you really think that bath houses are places that are promoting openness and awareness among our population?

From a public health standpoint, I do have issues with public establishments in which unprotected sex is taking place. This isn't a personal rights issue, because sodomy statutes were overturned using an interpretation of the Right to Privacy. The state has been found to have a legitimate state interest in regulating sex acts in public. Unless there are straight sex venues that are *not* getting shut down, how are we defining this as an issue that discriminates against homosexuals?

Again, I'm not advocating shutting them down, but I'm having trouble locating an argument to keep them open.
Mike

United States

#3 Jan 15, 2008
First Aids!!! Now this.

New Strain of MRSA Spreads Among Gay Men.

Gays will wipe out America!!!
Ted

Schaumburg, IL

#4 Jan 15, 2008
Sceptical wrote:
I'll start by saying that I have not yet formulated an opinion on the closure of sex venues for public health reasons. But. West Coaster, do you really think that bath houses are places that are promoting openness and awareness among our population?
From a public health standpoint, I do have issues with public establishments in which unprotected sex is taking place. This isn't a personal rights issue, because sodomy statutes were overturned using an interpretation of the Right to Privacy. The state has been found to have a legitimate state interest in regulating sex acts in public. Unless there are straight sex venues that are *not* getting shut down, how are we defining this as an issue that discriminates against homosexuals?
Again, I'm not advocating shutting them down, but I'm having trouble locating an argument to keep them open.
You can thank the HRC and similar homo-fascist organization for the alarming rise of infections among homosexuals. They do their best to shout down anyone presenting an accurate picture of the tragedy that so often follows your lifestyle choice and spend millins trying to hide the truth.

“One Bigot at a Time”

Since: Apr 07

DC

#5 Jan 15, 2008
Mike, Sopot, please be quiet. There are adults talking here.
KOOKY GAY

Columbus, OH

#6 Jan 15, 2008
Sceptical wrote:
I'll start by saying that I have not yet formulated an opinion on the closure of sex venues for public health reasons. But. West Coaster, do you really think that bath houses are places that are promoting openness and awareness among our population?
From a public health standpoint, I do have issues with public establishments in which unprotected sex is taking place. This isn't a personal rights issue, because sodomy statutes were overturned using an interpretation of the Right to Privacy. The state has been found to have a legitimate state interest in regulating sex acts in public. Unless there are straight sex venues that are *not* getting shut down, how are we defining this as an issue that discriminates against homosexuals?
Again, I'm not advocating shutting them down, but I'm having trouble locating an argument to keep them open.
I totally agree with you in spite of the fact that it would immediately be taken as a major affront to gay rights or some other customary statement. How dare you remind a gay activist that they may just be wrong.
Mike

United States

#7 Jan 15, 2008
Sceptical wrote:
Mike, Sopot, please be quiet. There are adults talking here.
Yea right. forget the war with Iran and Iraq.
The rising infection rates of young gay men in New York City is causing controversy and even panic. The New York Times weighed in on the numbers in a lead editorial published Monday, Jan. 14. The Times noted that, "When the disease was new and terrifying
West Coaster

Los Angeles, CA

#8 Jan 15, 2008
How quick to discern what is unclear. I am NOT a gay activist. I am a gay man who has (mis)spent some of my youth in bath houses and such. I am HIV(-). And I hope to stay that way. NOT because I no longer participate in that scene.... I'm in a monogamous/commited relationship....but because at the local bath house there were pamphlets/bowls of condoms/ and people willing to educate me about 'safe sex.' And how did they know that they SHOULD talk to me about safe sex? Because these were places where people like me (young and sexually active) could readily be found.... in bath houses and sex clubs. In the early days of HIV/AIDS there was talk of shutting down the baths. They didn't, and we changed things thru education and an open dialogue. Why do we now feel the need to turn our backs on what worked before, and give in to what is clearly a 'knee-jerk' reaction? All I'm saying is that the wholesale closing of these places is not going to solve this public health crisis. It will only drive those who most need to hear the message of safe sex practices further into hiding, where they will still be sexually active, but now beyond the reach of someone who could help to save their life.

As an aside, MRSA (Methycillin resistant Staphalococcus aureus) has been growing steadily in the general population for a number of years now. As a healthcare professional I can tell you that the 'blame' lies mostly with a society that isn't happy with their doctor unless they come away with a prescription for an anti-biotic every time they come down with a little sniffle or a cough. Staph. aureus got resistent to these anti-biotics by being exposed to them repeatedly over time.
West Coaster

Los Angeles, CA

#9 Jan 15, 2008
Staph. aureus got resistent to these anti-biotics by being exposed to them repeatedly over time. We (the Gay community) are being affected/afflicted by these bacterial infections, but we are not the cause of them, or the source.

“One Bigot at a Time”

Since: Apr 07

DC

#10 Jan 15, 2008
WC, I agree that our community reacted to the first wave of HIV infection in a very active and open mannor. I think the point these days is that our community is not doing so today. Your point about reaching at risk populations is a good one.

From a public health standpoint, there is still a legal argument for the regulation of sex acts in the public sphere. And I'm not ready to discount the impact on incidence that shutting these venues down would have. On the other hand, maybe incidence could be impacted through programs in these venues, and maybe that argument could be made to public health officials.
mike

Marquette, MI

#11 Jan 15, 2008
hmm so instead of having sex somewhere where there are condoms and relative safety, and literature and testing programs

gays should go back to alley sex, sex in public parks, sex in airport restrooms ???

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#12 Jan 15, 2008
Talk about history repeating itself, I remember conversations exactly like this twenty years ago. In the early years of the epidemic a move such as this was being carried out nationwide as the fear of AIDS was at its paranoid worst. Back then the activist organizations of our community stepped up and stepped in not because sex clubs and bath houses are an ideal part of our community but an unfortunate reality as not all men are capable of being open and honest about their true self and use places such as these as their only perceived outlet. The reality then is the same reality as now, closing down these places would only drivee this kind of behavior further underground than it already is. Organizations such as ACT-UP and Queer Nation realized that in order to keep this from happening it was vital to make sure that if these places were to remain in exsistence that they had to live up to their social obligation to their clientele and do everything to protect them. Working with the owners of these clubs these and other organizations made sure that information regarding safer sex practices were readily available and prominently displayed as well as making sure there was an ample supply of free condoms and in many instances that made sure what was preached was what was practiced. This was not a perfect solution but an attempt to make the best of a not so good situation. In many ways this alliance actually did some good as the infection rates did go down for a number of years and the pressure to close down sex clubs ebbed. It's only in the last few years with the sudden increase in infection rates among primarily young men who have sex with men are we seeing this issue come to the fore again. The biggestpart of the problem is the behavior of these young men who simply aren't old enough to have seen just what kind of impact this disease had on our community back then. Some of this is due to advances in medicine that make it a 'liveable condition' rather than the death sentence it used to be. Then there are our friends in the porn industry that have brought back the 'joys of barebacking' without any consideration of the potential consequences of its emulation in real life. From what I've read it also seems that these clubs have also forgotten the mistakes of the past and have failed in heir responsibility to their customers by not making sure that safer sex is the only way permitted on premises. All of which brings us right back more or less where we started. Hopefully the city won't take this drastic action and instead work with these places to make sure that the message gets out and safer sex becomes the rule.

“Son of Abraham”

Since: Aug 07

Natural Deviant

#13 Jan 15, 2008
Anyone with half a brain realizes if you're at a bath house, or a sex club, 99% of the guys there are already infected. I highly doubt these black and latino kids are catching the bug at these clubs so closing the bathhouses isn't going to affect the infection rate. Maybe if the government would get it's head out of it's ass and stop acting like the abstinence only program is the way to go and start teaching safe-sex and make condoms available then a dent might be made.

“Just call me Das. ”

Since: Jul 07

Ponte Vedra Beach, FL

#15 Jan 15, 2008
I'm in NYC.
I date.

I don't go to play parties, but I know people who do and know where to find them. They're in private spaces and are entirely unregulated.

It's become trendy in this town to bareback with strangers. Why? I do not know.

So, if the sex clubs are closed, Rick and WC are correct; nobody armed with the truth will know where to find these parties and the young guys who may not realise the seriousness of their actions.

“One Bigot at a Time”

Since: Apr 07

DC

#16 Jan 15, 2008
mike wrote:
hmm so instead of having sex somewhere where there are condoms and relative safety, and literature and testing programs
gays should go back to alley sex, sex in public parks, sex in airport restrooms ???
forgive me for pointing this out, but there's always the option of sex in private. When did we make an assumption that any population has a right to public allocation of space for sex?

“One Bigot at a Time”

Since: Apr 07

DC

#17 Jan 15, 2008
Dasein9 wrote:
I'm in NYC.
I date.
I don't go to play parties, but I know people who do and know where to find them. They're in private spaces and are entirely unregulated.
It's become trendy in this town to bareback with strangers. Why? I do not know.
So, if the sex clubs are closed, Rick and WC are correct; nobody armed with the truth will know where to find these parties and the young guys who may not realise the seriousness of their actions.
I agree completely. I think I'm coming across wrong. My point is that we can't make an assumption that we have a right to keep these venues open just because it's the right thing to do (from our perspective). I don't think that telling a public health official that the sex will occur anyway, is an effective argument to persuade them.

I also don't believe that portraying the community as a group of people who will have sex somewhere in public, no matter what, is going to change many people's minds.

I'm still at a loss when it comes to reducing the incidence of infection.
Mike

Circle Pines, MN

#18 Jan 15, 2008
RmOg wrote:
BANISH ALL QUEERS TO IRAN!!!!!
I second that!!!
WEST COASTER

United States

#19 Jan 17, 2008
Silly twit. There are no Gays in Iran. Their President said so, and we all know that what the president says... any president...MUST be the truth. They wouldn't lie to us. Would they??

No charge for the sarcasm... I give it away for free.
Mike

United States

#20 Jan 21, 2008
WEST COASTER wrote:
Silly twit. There are no Gays in Iran. Their President said so, and we all know that what the president says... any president...MUST be the truth. They wouldn't lie to us. Would they??
No charge for the sarcasm... I give it away for free.
I'm sure if they had gays there. They would cut the heads off!!!

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