30 Murders by Firearm in England 2012...

30 Murders by Firearm in England 2012 (equiv. 164), vs. 8,855 in US

There are 423 comments on the Juan Cole story from May 25, 2014, titled 30 Murders by Firearm in England 2012 (equiv. 164), vs. 8,855 in US. In it, Juan Cole reports that:

The mentally imbalanced individual who hunted down UC Santa Barbara students and shot 6 of them to death, wounding 7 more, on Saturday, used a semi-automatic handgun .

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Juan Cole.

Since: Feb 11

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#508 Jun 12, 2014
Banned wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would I care if he's a cop since I wouldn't be breaking any law by selling a gun to a stranger without doing a background check?
He's a felon, dear.

You broke the law.

Since: Feb 11

Location hidden

#509 Jun 12, 2014
Banned wrote:
<quoted text>
Then pass your law. How will you know when someone breaks it?
How do you know when clerks sell alcohol to minors?

When the guy uses the gun you sold him to commit a crime, how long do you think he'll wait to tell us your name? Especially when we tell him it's a year in prison and if he doesn't give us your name he serves the year himself?

Since: Feb 11

Location hidden

#512 Jun 12, 2014
Banned wrote:
<quoted text>
That's not accurate.
It is accurate.

You sell a gun to a felon who goes from the gun show down to the corner 7-11 and robs them and you say you have no responsibility?

HAHAAHAHAHAH!

Since: Feb 11

Location hidden

#513 Jun 12, 2014
Banned wrote:
If he is a complete stranger to me then I have no reason to believe he might be a felon
You meet guy on the street and he offers to sell you a watch for five percent of what you know it's worth.

Do you have a reason to believe it is stolen?

HAHAHAAHAHAHAH!

Sweetie: I am not suggesting that we have to go on what you believe, I am suggesting that if you sell to a felon, than you pay for the consequences.

The universal background check counter is a couple dozen steps from your table.

Since: Feb 11

Location hidden

#514 Jun 12, 2014
Banned wrote:
<quoted text>
So you think you're going to convict a law-abiding citizen of a felony weapons charge bases on the word of a confessed criminal
You are not law-abiding the second you take money for a gun when you sell to a felon.

You mean will the cops believe when the criminal has your gun and says you sold it to him and they ask you where the gun is and you insist it was stolen?

Yes...

I think there is a pretty good chance that reasonable people would look at you and say you are the kind of guy who would sell without background checks- especially when you have already said so here, yes.

But in the real world of course the DA would no doubt make you a deal and plead it down to a felony and perhaps no jail time under the condition you give up your guns and your permit and that would resolve the you selling guns to felons problem as you would no longer own any.

Of course, you could get a lawyer who would charge you in this kind of case no less than $5K.

Since you asked...

Since: Feb 11

Location hidden

#515 Jun 12, 2014
Banned wrote:
A public defender could have those charges thrown out of court.
Public defender?

HAHAAHAHAHAH!

Well, I would not be surprised to say you would mooch off the state in asking for the state to pick up the tabs for your illegal transaction but let me tell you, Shug, public defenders aren't going to give you a whole lot of effort and will be doing back flips to plead you out.
Patriot

Mount Juliet, TN

#516 Jun 12, 2014
barefoot2626 wrote:
<quoted text>
Americans shouldn't be allowed to sell guns to complete strangers.
I know: You lie several times in one sentence, it must be required?
90 percent of Americans understand the need for universal back ground check.
Nine percent of Americans are felons.
Curious that ten percent of Americans think as you think...
You seem to think if someone is turned down from buying a firearm from a legal source they will just give up and not buy one. If someone steals or buys a gun illegally, did the gun control law have any effect on crime?..NOPE. The survey showing 90% support gun control must have come from a place like San Francisco. All gun control laws do is stop one from buying a firearm legally. There are numerous laws against murder, if a person has decided violate a murder law, I don't think a background check law would stop them from doing it, may delay it(at best)a little bit.The back ground check law is just back door way of gun registration, the proponests know that but use the guise of safety, etc. to pass their agenda.
Patriot

Mount Juliet, TN

#517 Jun 12, 2014
Just showing how naive gun control advocates are is they think if a law is passed that it will stop a certain activity. I hate to inform them when Moses came down the mountain with the 10 commandments written by the hand of God on tablets of stone, that did not stop the people from doing the prohibited actions then or to this day. There are over20,000 gun control laws on the books and sure same number of laws against assault and murders, that has not stopped those either. Just add one law and that will stop crime...How silly is that line of thought.. Drunk driving laws have not stopped that either.
Yep2

Hernando, FL

#518 Jun 12, 2014
The only delay a felon would experience in buying a gun from anyone is the time it takes them to get a fake ID.

I have no problem with universal background checks - even if they don't prevent a felon from purchasing a firearm.

My problem is that it would be another WORTHLESS feel-good gun control boojum.

Like the Assault Weapons Ban.

Since: Feb 11

Location hidden

#519 Jun 12, 2014
Patriot wrote:
<quoted text>You seem to think if someone is turned down from buying a firearm from a legal source they will just give up and not buy one.
You keep forgetting that I am smarter than you and when you say that I seem to think you are unable to build in the calculus for your own stupidity.

A background check that stops ONE sale is a background check that stops ONE sale that should not have been make.

I am at a loss why you cannot figure this out.

Since: Feb 11

Location hidden

#520 Jun 12, 2014
Patriot wrote:
If someone steals or buys a gun illegally, did the gun control law have any effect on crime?..
If someone tries to buy a gun and the sale is stopped, does he commit a crime with that gun.

Let me guess: your mother fed you formula she bought off the black market, didn't she?

Since: Feb 11

Location hidden

#521 Jun 12, 2014
Patriot wrote:
I hate to inform them when Moses came down the mountain with the 10 commandments written by the hand of God on tablets of stone
Putting aside that that is cr@p- and that the commandments were written by the FINGER of God (jeez, love bible thumpers who can't even regurgitate their own rhetoric) Deuteronomy 9:10, shug...

Universal background checks are like rubbers: they don't prevent all pregnancies, they prevent most pregnancies.

Now I am sure you have had personal experience- at least through your mother- in this regard about defective rubbers- as far as universal background checks for firearms are concerned, it would restrict the EASY access felons have right now because of people like you who can't be bothered to even ask the question of their buyers- are you a felon?

Since: Feb 11

Location hidden

#522 Jun 12, 2014
Patriot wrote:
There are over20,000 gun control laws
Made up numbers mean nothing.

And this case... an outright lie.

Since: May 12

Chambersburg, PA

#527 Jun 12, 2014
This is why universal background checks for ALL gun sales is needed.

Since: Feb 11

Location hidden

#530 Jun 12, 2014
Banned wrote:
<quoted text>
If I did not break any laws when I sold the firearm
You broke a law when you sold to a felon.

Since: Feb 11

Location hidden

#531 Jun 12, 2014
Banned wrote:
I'm a private citizen so I'm not required to conduct a background check if I sell a gun.
It's against the law to sell guns to felons.

Beyond the law: there are civil damages.

You sell a gun to a felon who in turn commits a crime, the felon is in prison, who do you suppose the victim will go after.

You sell a gun and it costs $35 to have a background check.

Since: Feb 11

Location hidden

#532 Jun 12, 2014
Banned wrote:
<quoted text>
We aren't talking about stolen guns here so the sell price isn't relevant.
We were talking about stolen guns, I guess now you don't want to.

Where do you want to move the goalposts to now?

Back to why you need a public defender when you sell guns to strangers?
Yep2

Hernando, FL

#533 Jun 12, 2014
The other thread too hot for you Dan?

Background checks don't prevent illegal gun sales.

If a felon gives an FFL owner a fake ID and it passes the NCIS check he walks out with the gun.

And the FFL owner - or private owner - would not be liable.

Universal checks would be as worthless as the Assault Weapons Ban was.
Patriot

Mount Juliet, TN

#535 Jun 12, 2014
barefoot2626 wrote:
<quoted text>
You keep forgetting that I am smarter than you and when you say that I seem to think you are unable to build in the calculus for your own stupidity.
A background check that stops ONE sale is a background check that stops ONE sale that should not have been make.
I am at a loss why you cannot figure this out.
Perhaps in my previous post I did not make myself clear. I stated if the gun law did stop a legal sale of a gun, but the person obtains one illegally anyhow,the gun law did not stop the person in question from obtaining a gun. The difference in you and I you area dialectual thiker, I am the diadactical thinker

Since: Feb 11

Location hidden

#536 Jun 12, 2014
Banned wrote:
It does not require me to ask the buyer if he/she is a felon.
We have already established you have loathsome moral character in that you would not be bothered to ask.

And we have established why a law that requires a background check be made: because we know that there are many loathsome creatures like yourself not only won't asked but refuse to ask.

I have suggest in any event closing the don't ask, don't tell gun sales loophole- the special rights gun gnutters like yourself strive so hard to keep open.

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