Firearms rally scheduled for Chambersburg's square

Mar 29, 2013 Full story: Chambersburg Public Opinion 11,003

Two local organizations are hosting a Second Amendment Freedom Rally on from noone to 2 p.m. April 6 on Courthouse Plaza in downtown Chambersburg.

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John W Hardin

Carlisle, PA

#1633 Apr 27, 2013
Squach wrote:
<quoted text>BTW, I forgot to mention that the crime drop in Phoenix probably has more to do with the Constitutional Carry Laws in that state than the number of illegal aliens.
Probably?

“HUNTING RIGHTS ADVOCATE”

Since: Oct 08

Boggy Creek

#1634 Apr 27, 2013
John W Hardin wrote:
<quoted text>
It didn't work the way you claim in Australia.
.
homicides by firearm plunged 59 percent between 1995 and 2006, with no corresponding increase in non-firearm-related homicides. The drop in suicides by gun was even steeper: 65 percent. Studies found a close correlation between the sharp declines and the gun buybacks. Robberies involving a firearm also dropped significantly. Meanwhile, home invasions did not increase, contrary to fears that firearm ownership is needed to deter such crimes. But here’s the most stunning statistic. In the decade before the Port Arthur massacre, there had been 11 mass shootings in the country. There hasn’t been a single one in Australia since.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2012/12/16/g...
This isn't Australia. The Australians never had a constitutionally guaranteed right to keep and bear arms. A fact that cannot be ignored. As I have said all along, I'm all for any way you can restrict/prevent criminals/psychos from obtaining firearms as long as it does not infringe upon the law abiding citizen and his individual rights.

“HUNTING RIGHTS ADVOCATE”

Since: Oct 08

Boggy Creek

#1635 Apr 27, 2013
John W Hardin wrote:
<quoted text>
Probably?
Criminals/psychos choose unarmed targets for obvious reasons. More people in Arizona are armed so there are less viable targets to choose from. Stands to reason.
John W Hardin

Carlisle, PA

#1636 Apr 27, 2013
Squach wrote:
<quoted text>This isn't Australia. The Australians never had a constitutionally guaranteed right to keep and bear arms. A fact that cannot be ignored. As I have said all along, I'm all for any way you can restrict/prevent criminals/psychos from obtaining firearms as long as it does not infringe upon the law abiding citizen and his individual rights.
I'll ask again: what kind of laws do you think would prevent criminals from obtaining firearms?

“O'er the land of the free ? ”

Since: Jan 09

Don't Tread On Me

#1637 Apr 27, 2013
John W Hardin wrote:
<quoted text>
NEGATIVE.
More guns = more killing.
This has been CONCLUSIVELY established.
That is the greatest lie that can be told.

One gun in the hands of a criminal brings more violence then a thousand guns in the hands of the law abiding.
John W Hardin

Carlisle, PA

#1638 Apr 27, 2013
Squach wrote:
<quoted text>Criminals/psychos choose unarmed targets for obvious reasons. More people in Arizona are armed so there are less viable targets to choose from. Stands to reason.
The statistics I posted were from 2008. Arizona's constitutional carry law was implemented in 2010.

But the point was that the record number of undocumented immigrants in AZ has not caused higher crime there because they commit crimes at a lower rate than native-born. Therefore, deporting all illegal immigrants will not impact the violent crime rate in the US as you suggested.

“O'er the land of the free ? ”

Since: Jan 09

Don't Tread On Me

#1639 Apr 27, 2013
John W Hardin wrote:
<quoted text>
The statistics I posted were from 2008. Arizona's constitutional carry law was implemented in 2010.
But the point was that the record number of undocumented immigrants in AZ has not caused higher crime there because they commit crimes at a lower rate than native-born. Therefore, deporting all illegal immigrants will not impact the violent crime rate in the US as you suggested.
They have been the cause of many kidnappings and ransom and many of their crimes are against other illegals so they go unreported.

“Shall NOT be infringed!”

Since: Apr 13

San Jose, CA.

#1640 Apr 27, 2013
John W Hardin wrote:
<quoted text>
I accept the Constitution.
But not your interpretation of it.
The Constitution needs NO "interpretation". It is explained line by line in the Federalist Papers. Which were the means employed to sell We The People the new Constitution. And here's what the Federalist states on the subject:

If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government ... The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms..."--Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers No. 28.

"...Little more can reasonably be aimed at, with respect to the PEOPLE AT LARGE, than to have them properly ARMED and EQUIPPED .... but if circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude, that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people, while there is a large body of citizens, LITTLE, if at ALL, INFERIOR to them in discipline and the USE OF ARMS, who stand ready to DEFEND THEIR OWN RIGHTS, and those of their fellow citizens. This appears to me the only substitute that can be devised for a standing army; and the best possible security against it, if it should exist."--Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist No. 29, Independent Journal, Wednesday, January 9, 1788.

"Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of. Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. And it is not certain, that with this aid alone they would not be able to shake off their yokes .... Let us not insult the free and gallant citizens of America with the suspicion, that they would be less able to defend the rights of which they would be in actual possession, than the debased subjects of arbitrary power would be to rescue theirs from the hands of their oppressors."--James Madison, The Federalist Papers No. 46, Tuesday, January 29, 1788.

As it is plain to see, your argument has no foundation or bearing at all. The Right is ours, and will ALWAYS remain so.

Have you thought of taking up gardening to pass the time? Because you're wasting it here.
John W Hardin

Carlisle, PA

#1641 Apr 27, 2013
GunShow1 wrote:
<quoted text>
The Constitution needs NO "interpretation". It is explained line by line in the Federalist Papers. Which were the means employed to sell We The People the new Constitution. And here's what the Federalist states on the subject:
If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government ... The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms..."--Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers No. 28.
"...Little more can reasonably be aimed at, with respect to the PEOPLE AT LARGE, than to have them properly ARMED and EQUIPPED .... but if circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude, that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people, while there is a large body of citizens, LITTLE, if at ALL, INFERIOR to them in discipline and the USE OF ARMS, who stand ready to DEFEND THEIR OWN RIGHTS, and those of their fellow citizens. This appears to me the only substitute that can be devised for a standing army; and the best possible security against it, if it should exist."--Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist No. 29, Independent Journal, Wednesday, January 9, 1788.
"Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of. Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. And it is not certain, that with this aid alone they would not be able to shake off their yokes .... Let us not insult the free and gallant citizens of America with the suspicion, that they would be less able to defend the rights of which they would be in actual possession, than the debased subjects of arbitrary power would be to rescue theirs from the hands of their oppressors."--James Madison, The Federalist Papers No. 46, Tuesday, January 29, 1788.
As it is plain to see, your argument has no foundation or bearing at all. The Right is ours, and will ALWAYS remain so.
Have you thought of taking up gardening to pass the time? Because you're wasting it here.
I do not respond to people who are intentionally insulting.

“Shall NOT be infringed!”

Since: Apr 13

San Jose, CA.

#1642 Apr 27, 2013
John W Hardin wrote:
<quoted text>
The statistics I posted were from 2008. Arizona's constitutional carry law was implemented in 2010.
But the point was that the record number of undocumented immigrants in AZ has not caused higher crime there because they commit crimes at a lower rate than native-born. Therefore, deporting all illegal immigrants will not impact the violent crime rate in the US as you suggested.
Not even close:

"In Arizona, Latinos, African-Americans and American Indians are incarcerated at rates disproportionately higher than their percent of the state’s population. About 42 percent of state prisoners are Hispanic, compared to only about 31 percent of the state population, according to prison statistics and 2009 population estimates.(Both figures include citizens and illegal immigrants.) African-Americans are even more likely to be incarcerated. The state’s population is only about 4 percent African-American, but the prison population is 13 percent African-American.'
http://www.phoenixmag.com/lifestyle/valley-ne...

And the reason they don't commit crimes here, is because of Sheriff Joe Arpaio.

Would suggest that you do your research in a more thorough manner. As so far, everything that you contend is false, and can be PROVEN so.

“Shall NOT be infringed!”

Since: Apr 13

San Jose, CA.

#1643 Apr 27, 2013
John W Hardin wrote:
<quoted text>
I do not respond to people who are intentionally insulting.
TRUTH "insults" you?

“Shall NOT be infringed!”

Since: Apr 13

San Jose, CA.

#1644 Apr 27, 2013
John W Hardin wrote:
<quoted text>
I'll ask again: what kind of laws do you think would prevent criminals from obtaining firearms?
"The Right of the People to Keep and Bear Arms shall NOT be infringed".
John W Hardin

Carlisle, PA

#1646 Apr 27, 2013
GunShow1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Not even close:
"In Arizona, Latinos, African-Americans and American Indians are incarcerated at rates disproportionately higher than their percent of the state’s population. About 42 percent of state prisoners are Hispanic, compared to only about 31 percent of the state population, according to prison statistics and 2009 population estimates.(Both figures include citizens and illegal immigrants.) African-Americans are even more likely to be incarcerated. The state’s population is only about 4 percent African-American, but the prison population is 13 percent African-American.'
http://www.phoenixmag.com/lifestyle/valley-ne...
And the reason they don't commit crimes here, is because of Sheriff Joe Arpaio.
Would suggest that you do your research in a more thorough manner. As so far, everything that you contend is false, and can be PROVEN so.
I posted information regarding crime rates for illegal immigrants. You posted information regarding arrest rates for Hispanics and African Americans. Your information is unrelated to the issue of crime rates among illegal immigrants.

Providing unrelated and irrelevant statistics does nothing to prove the information I've posted wrong.
John W Hardin

Carlisle, PA

#1647 Apr 27, 2013
GunShow1 wrote:
<quoted text>
TRUTH "insults" you?
Nope.

“Shall NOT be infringed!”

Since: Apr 13

San Jose, CA.

#1648 Apr 27, 2013
John W Hardin wrote:
<quoted text>
I posted information regarding crime rates for illegal immigrants. You posted information regarding arrest rates for Hispanics and African Americans. Your information is unrelated to the issue of crime rates among illegal immigrants.
Providing unrelated and irrelevant statistics does nothing to prove the information I've posted wrong.
Are you blind?

"About 42 percent of state prisoners are Hispanic, compared to only about 31 percent of the state population, according to prison statistics and 2009 population estimates.(Both figures include citizens and >>>>>>> >>>illegal immigrants<<<<< <<<<<.)"
John W Hardin

Carlisle, PA

#1649 Apr 27, 2013
GunShow1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you blind?
"About 42 percent of state prisoners are Hispanic, compared to only about 31 percent of the state population, according to prison statistics and 2009 population estimates.(Both figures include citizens and >>>>>>> >>>illegal immigrants<<<<< <<<<<.)"
I saw that. It's meaningless.

Unless you can separate out the illegal immigrants, your numbers mean nothing.

.

Legal and illegal immigrants do commit crimes, but at rates that are generally lower than their native-born counterparts, according to U.S. Census Bureau data.

The large majority of immigrants who enter the United States, legally and illegally, come here to work and save and support their families. Once inside the country, they want to stay out of trouble and not jeopardize their opportunity to earn income in a our relatively free and open economy.

http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/u...

“Shall NOT be infringed!”

Since: Apr 13

San Jose, CA.

#1650 Apr 27, 2013
John W Hardin wrote:
<quoted text>
I saw that. It's meaningless.
Unless you can separate out the illegal immigrants, your numbers mean nothing.
.
Legal and illegal immigrants do commit crimes, but at rates that are generally lower than their native-born counterparts, according to U.S. Census Bureau data.
The large majority of immigrants who enter the United States, legally and illegally, come here to work and save and support their families. Once inside the country, they want to stay out of trouble and not jeopardize their opportunity to earn income in a our relatively free and open economy.
http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/u...
DO YOU KNOW HOW TO COMPREHEND ENGLISH? The Arizona State records show FORTY-TWO PERCENT of the prisoners are Hispanic. >YOU< were the one that made a comment on Arizona. And I've PLAINLY laid your claim to waste.
John W Hardin

Carlisle, PA

#1651 Apr 27, 2013
GunShow1 wrote:
<quoted text>
DO YOU KNOW HOW TO COMPREHEND ENGLISH? The Arizona State records show FORTY-TWO PERCENT of the prisoners are Hispanic. >YOU< were the one that made a comment on Arizona. And I've PLAINLY laid your claim to waste.
I believe YOU are the one having comprehension trouble.

"Hispanic" does not mean "illegal immigrant." 30% of Arizona CITIZENS are Hispanic. The percentage of prisoners who are Hispanic tells us NOTHING about the crime rate among illegal immigrants.

“Shall NOT be infringed!”

Since: Apr 13

San Jose, CA.

#1653 Apr 28, 2013
John W Hardin wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe YOU are the one having comprehension trouble.
"Hispanic" does not mean "illegal immigrant." 30% of Arizona CITIZENS are Hispanic. The percentage of prisoners who are Hispanic tells us NOTHING about the crime rate among illegal immigrants.
It does NOT matter what >you< think,(or not, as the case may be). Nor do ANY of the VAIN and IMMATERIAL arguments that you present have ANY bearing, substance, or weight.

The FACT of the matter is:

"The Right of the People to Keep and Bear Arms shall NOT be infringed".

And NOTHING that you present will alter that FACT one iota.

Pull your head out.

“HUNTING RIGHTS ADVOCATE”

Since: Oct 08

Boggy Creek

#1654 Apr 28, 2013
John W Hardin wrote:
<quoted text>
The statistics I posted were from 2008. Arizona's constitutional carry law was implemented in 2010.
But the point was that the record number of undocumented immigrants in AZ has not caused higher crime there because they commit crimes at a lower rate than native-born. Therefore, deporting all illegal immigrants will not impact the violent crime rate in the US as you suggested.
The ILLEGAL aliens ARE criminals be cause they are here ILLEGALLY! DUH! Their very presence here is a CRIME. Gang members, drug dealers, and gun runners! If they are "honest hard working people" let them go back where they came from and work hard on coming here honestly. Try immigrating to Mexico illegally and see what happens.

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