Firearms rally scheduled for Chambers...

Firearms rally scheduled for Chambersburg's square

There are 10984 comments on the Chambersburg Public Opinion story from Mar 29, 2013, titled Firearms rally scheduled for Chambersburg's square. In it, Chambersburg Public Opinion reports that:

Two local organizations are hosting a Second Amendment Freedom Rally on from noone to 2 p.m. April 6 on Courthouse Plaza in downtown Chambersburg.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Chambersburg Public Opinion.

John W Hardin

Carlisle, PA

#1494 Apr 26, 2013
Squach wrote:
<quoted text>Therein lies the rub. First of all any laws we enact won't really make it any more difficult to obtain a firearm illegally than it is now. It will only make it more difficult to obtain one legally. No we should not "get rid of all laws because criminals just ignore them", we should be tougher on the criminals who ignore the laws and stop putting them right back on the street to kill and maim again and again. Finally, I agree that we must do something to reduce the violent crime and control violent criminals but I draw the line at restricting or penalizing ALL honest law abiding gun owners in an attempt to control the few who break the law. Laws, restrictions, and bans that adversely affect the rights and freedoms of those who have committed no crime is not the answer. Background checks are little if any good in preventing crime. The criminals will obtain them illegally, plain and simple. Should we require a background check before you can exercise any of your other constitutional rights in an effort to control the few abuse them? It's not an easy problem to solve.......how to have an effect on illegal guns and violence without having an unconstitutional negative effect on the honest law abiding citizen.
The US has the highest incarceration rate in the world. We are not putting violent criminals right back on the street.

Any constitutional right that results in 90 deaths a day should definitely be better regulated.
John W Hardin

Carlisle, PA

#1495 Apr 26, 2013
Squach wrote:
<quoted text>Good intentions......bad results. It's a reduction of the freedom, rights, and privacy of all the wrong people. Unfortunately it's already easier to get a gun illegally than it is to buy one through proper channels. No paperwork, no waiting period, no background check, if you have the money you get the goods.
You have described exactly why we need better gun regulation.
The Flying Pig

UK

#1496 Apr 26, 2013
John W Hardin wrote:
<quoted text>
That isn't true. States with the strictest gun laws rank in the bottom half of all states in crime rates.
http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/20...
LIAR!

Chicago, Ill., has one of the most onerous anti-gun laws, yet has THE highest MURDER rate of the United States.

What about the U.S. States of Vermont, Alaska, Arizona, and Wyoming, where there are NO laws regarding the possession and carriage of guns?
The Flying Pig

UK

#1497 Apr 26, 2013
John W Hardin wrote:
<quoted text>
The US has the highest incarceration rate in the world. We are not putting violent criminals right back on the street.
Any constitutional right that results in 90 deaths a day should definitely be better regulated.
Yeah?

So you would OUTLAW free speech, religion, press, and assembly too?

WORDS have been THE CAUSE of MORE DEATH and DESTRUCTION in this world, than ANY number of guns.

WHERE is YOUR outrage?
John W Hardin

Carlisle, PA

#1498 Apr 26, 2013
The Flying Pig wrote:
<quoted text>
"A principal source of errors and injustice are false ideas of utility. For example: that legislator has false ideas of utility who considers particular more than general conveniencies, who had rather command the sentiments of mankind than excite them, and dares say to reason,`Be thou a slave'; who would sacrifice a thousand real advantages to the fear of an imaginary or trifling inconvenience; who would deprive men of the use of fire for fear of their being burnt, and of water for fear of their being drowned; and who knows of no means of preventing evil but by destroying it.
"The laws of this nature are those which forbid to wear arms, disarming those only who are not disposed to commit the crime which the laws mean to prevent. Can it be supposed, that those who have the courage to violate the most sacred laws of humanity, and the most important of the code, will respect the less considerable and arbitrary injunctions, the violation of which is so easy, and of so little comparative importance? Does not the execution of this law deprive the subject of that personal liberty, so dear to mankind and to the wise legislator? and does it not subject the innocent to all the disagreeable circumstances that should only fall on the guilty? It certainly makes the situation of the assaulted worse, and of the assailants better, and rather encourages than prevents murder, as it requires less courage to attack unarmed than armed persons.
"It is a false idea of utility that would give to a multitude of sensible beings that symmetry and order which inanimate matter is alone capable of receiving; to neglect the present, which are the only motives that act with force and constancy on the multitude for the more distant, whose impressions are weak and transitory, unless increased by that strength of imagination so very uncommon among mankind. Finally, that is a false idea of utility which, sacrificing things to names, separates the public good from that of individuals.
"There is this difference between a state of society and a state of nature, that a savage does no more mischief to another than is necessary to procure some benefit to himself: but a man in society is sometimes tempted, from a fault in the laws, to injure another without any prospect of advantage. The tyrant inspires his vassals with fear and servility, which rebound upon him with double force, and are the cause of his torment. Fear, the more private and domestic it is, the less dangerous is it to him who makes it the instrument of his happiness; but the more it is public, and the greater number of people it affects, the greater is the probability that some mad, desperate, or designing person will seduce others to his party by flattering expectations; and this will be the more easily accomplished as the danger of the enterprise will be divided amongst a greater number, because the value the unhappy set upon their existence is less, as their misery is greater."
Cesare Beccaria
I don't see what this has to do with people legally purchasing guns then later misusing them.
John W Hardin

Carlisle, PA

#1499 Apr 26, 2013
The Flying Pig wrote:
<quoted text>
LIAR!
Chicago, Ill., has one of the most onerous anti-gun laws, yet has THE highest MURDER rate of the United States.
What about the U.S. States of Vermont, Alaska, Arizona, and Wyoming, where there are NO laws regarding the possession and carriage of guns?
I do not respond to people who are intentionally insulting.
John W Hardin

Carlisle, PA

#1500 Apr 26, 2013
The Flying Pig wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah?
So you would OUTLAW free speech, religion, press, and assembly too?
WORDS have been THE CAUSE of MORE DEATH and DESTRUCTION in this world, than ANY number of guns.
WHERE is YOUR outrage?
Speech is regulated in this country.
FormerParatroope r

Evanston, IL

#1501 Apr 26, 2013
John W Hardin wrote:
<quoted text>
Before the crime has been committed, punishment is just a threat.
The major flaws in the existing system are why we need to improve the system.
The Bill proposed to expand the checks did nothing to fix it.

If we consistently punish those who commit violent crime, it would drop. Especially among repeat offenders, can't offend if you are locked away.

As far as enforcement, how many who fail the current background system are actually pursued, and how many failures are due to errors in the system?
John W Hardin

Carlisle, PA

#1502 Apr 26, 2013
Owning Guns Doesn't Preserve Freedom

Studies show there is very little correlation between heavily armed citizens and the presence of democracy in countries around the world.

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/arch...
John W Hardin

Carlisle, PA

#1503 Apr 26, 2013
FormerParatrooper wrote:
<quoted text>
The Bill proposed to expand the checks did nothing to fix it.
If we consistently punish those who commit violent crime, it would drop. Especially among repeat offenders, can't offend if you are locked away.
As far as enforcement, how many who fail the current background system are actually pursued, and how many failures are due to errors in the system?
We need something better than the proposed bill.

We have the highest incarceration rate in the world. Lack of punishment for violent offenders is not a problem in the US.

The government has decided that failing to purchase a gun is the outcome they desire, so they generally do not follow up. I do not know how many failed background checks are due to system errors.
FormerParatroope r

Evanston, IL

#1504 Apr 26, 2013
John W Hardin wrote:
<quoted text>
The US has the highest incarceration rate in the world. We are not putting violent criminals right back on the street.
Any constitutional right that results in 90 deaths a day should definitely be better regulated.


We are putting criminals back on the street. Otherwise there would be no repeat offenders. Our incarceration rate includes nonviolent criminals as well.

It is not the right that kills people. It is criminals with intent. Whether by gun, knives, club, rock or any other object, criminals will ply thier trade.
The Flying Pig

UK

#1505 Apr 26, 2013
John W Hardin wrote:
Owning Guns Doesn't Preserve Freedom
Studies show there is very little correlation between heavily armed citizens and the presence of democracy in countries around the world.
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/arch...
FKNG LIAR!
BE TELLING THAT to Lenin's and Stalin's Soviet Union.
BE TELLING THAT to Hitler's Germany.
BE TELLING THAT to Mao's China.
BE TELLING THAT to Pol Pot's Cambodia.
BE TELLING THAT TO THE MILLIONS who were MURDERED at the hands of THEIR OWN GOVERNMENTS in the 20th Century alone!
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM
John W Hardin

Carlisle, PA

#1506 Apr 26, 2013
FormerParatrooper wrote:
<quoted text>
We are putting criminals back on the street. Otherwise there would be no repeat offenders. Our incarceration rate includes nonviolent criminals as well.
It is not the right that kills people. It is criminals with intent. Whether by gun, knives, club, rock or any other object, criminals will ply thier trade.
Half of released prisoners are returned to jail within 3 years. Obviously our current prison system is not solving the problem. Plus we spend over $31,000 per inmate per year for a total of over $63 billion per year on a system that doesn't work. Lock 'em up and throw away the key does not work.

I said the right _results_ in 90 deaths a day, not that the right kills 90 people a day.
John W Hardin

Carlisle, PA

#1507 Apr 26, 2013
The Flying Pig wrote:
<quoted text>
FKNG LIAR!
BE TELLING THAT to Lenin's and Stalin's Soviet Union.
BE TELLING THAT to Hitler's Germany.
BE TELLING THAT to Mao's China.
BE TELLING THAT to Pol Pot's Cambodia.
BE TELLING THAT TO THE MILLIONS who were MURDERED at the hands of THEIR OWN GOVERNMENTS in the 20th Century alone!
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM
I do not respond to people who are intentionally insulting.
John W Hardin

Carlisle, PA

#1508 Apr 26, 2013
Since Australia cracked down on guns, homicide by guns has dropped by over 56%.

.
.

How One Democracy Changed After Scrapping a Third of its Firearms

The most comprehensive impact study of the Australian interventions found that “the buyback led to a drop in the firearm suicide rates of almost 80%, with no significant effect on non-firearm death rates. The effect on firearm homicides is of similar magnitude but is less precise.”

Important for any discussion of causality, the authors also found that “the largest falls in firearm deaths occurred in states where more firearms were bought back.”

This study went on to cite survey results to suggest that Australia had nearly halved its number of gun-owning households and then estimated that, by withdrawing firearms on such a scale, this nation of nearly 23 million people had saved itself 200 deaths by gunshot and US$500 million in costs each year
John W Hardin

Carlisle, PA

#1509 Apr 26, 2013
Whoops, I missed posting the link.

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/cp/a...
FormerParatroope r

Evanston, IL

#1510 Apr 26, 2013
John W Hardin wrote:
<quoted text>
We need something better than the proposed bill.
We have the highest incarceration rate in the world. Lack of punishment for violent offenders is not a problem in the US.
The government has decided that failing to purchase a gun is the outcome they desire, so they generally do not follow up. I do not know how many failed background checks are due to system errors.
Why are so many repeat violent offenders on the streets if there is not a problem. what is the breakdown of criminal activity of those incarcerated? How many nonviolent offenders are included?

People who are not allowed to possess a firearm are committing a crime if they attempt to purchase one. A punishable crime that needs pursued.

I have seen estimates of 2.5% to 10 % of denials are in error. However, I have been able to find an source that I consider neutral in the matter.

Out of approx 821 million checks that were denied in 2010, only 47 were prosecuted. Even at a 10% error rate, the prosecution is lax for violating the law.

The idea of expanding a broken system is ludicrous. Fix the system, then we can debate the merits of expanding the system.

The greatest fallacy of the firearm debate is the treatment of firearm owners. Non criminals, non violent citizens are treated as guilty. The assumption is innocence until proven guilty. And people like me are painted as extremists by those who have the need for knee jerk feel good policies. People like me are not the problem, nor are we the extremists.
TaxNoMore

Los Angeles, CA

#1511 Apr 26, 2013
Dan the Man Chambersburg wrote:
<quoted text>
More ancient history that doesn't change the fact that TODAY'S Republican party has systematically alienated all minority groups with their racist, prejudicial, and discriminatory behavior.
What are you trying to achieve here? Educating people that the Republican party was anti-slavery in the 1800s? BFD. We live TODAY.
..........

.
.
.
.
.
.

Labor unions that pushed Obamacare through want out

.
.

Socialized medicine: good enough for us, but not them

Who knew Obamacare was bad for workers?

.
.
.
.

Unions,

or rather the professional class of union leaders,

were vehement supporters of Obamacare’s federal

takeover of health care.

Now that they’ve had a chance to actually read the 2,801-page bill and

“find out what is in it,”

they are upset and want out.

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/feb/ ...
Follow us:@washtimes on Twitter

..........

..........

If this sounds unbelievable, it’s because it is.

There’s no effort to “exempt” Unions from Obamacare.

..........
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Stop spreading bullshit and lies.

Stop being a rightwing dupe.
FormerParatroope r

Evanston, IL

#1512 Apr 26, 2013
John W Hardin wrote:
<quoted text>
Half of released prisoners are returned to jail within 3 years. Obviously our current prison system is not solving the problem. Plus we spend over $31,000 per inmate per year for a total of over $63 billion per year on a system that doesn't work. Lock 'em up and throw away the key does not work.
I said the right _results_ in 90 deaths a day, not that the right kills 90 people a day.
I did not deliberately misquote, so I stand corrected.

Our prisons are hotels with great freebies.. You get cable tv, workout rooms, free education, free sex changes, and a great place to get drugs and contraband. Prison needs to be a punishment, not a welcome place nor a free ride on society.
We could cut expenses buy getting the luxury items out. Keep the library and job training for those who are first time offenders and show rehabilitative behaviour. Make them grow thier own food. They are not there for exceptional behaviour, so forget comfort. Repeat violent offenders should leave prison in a pine box.

GunShow1

“Shall NOT be infringed!”

Since: Apr 13

San Jose, CA.

#1513 Apr 26, 2013
John W Hardin wrote:
American fatalities from 2000-2010
Terror attacks - 3,033
Workplace deaths - 60,394
Firearms - 335,609
But we definitely shouldn't do anything to regulate guns.
That's NOTHING in comparison to how many corrupt gobvernments have killed:

II 128,168,000 VICTIMS: THE DEKA-MEGAMURDERERS

4. 61,911,000 Murdered: The Soviet Gulag State
5. 35,236,000 Murdered: The Communist Chinese Ant Hill
6. 20,946,000 Murdered: The Nazi Genocide State
7. 10,214,000 Murdered: The Depraved Nationalist Regime

III 19,178,000 VICTIMS: THE LESSER MEGA-MURDERERS

8. 5,964,000 Murdered: Japan's Savage Military
9. 2,035,000 Murdered: The Khmer Rouge Hell State
10. 1,883,000 Murdered: Turkey's Genocidal Purges
11. 1,670,000 Murdered: The Vietnamese War State
12. 1,585,000 Murdered: Poland's Ethnic Cleansing
13. 1,503,000 Murdered: The Pakistani Cutthroat State
14. 1,072,000 Murdered: Tito's Slaughterhouse

IV 4,145,000 VICTIMS: SUSPECTED MEGAMURDERERS

15. 1,663,000 Murdered? Orwellian North Korea
16. 1,417,000 Murdered? Barbarous Mexico
17. 1,066,000 Murdered? Feudal Russia
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE1.HTM

Many of those MASS MURDERERS disarmed their victims before SLAUGHTERING them.

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