Firearms rally scheduled for Chambers...

Firearms rally scheduled for Chambersburg's square

There are 10983 comments on the Chambersburg Public Opinion story from Mar 29, 2013, titled Firearms rally scheduled for Chambersburg's square. In it, Chambersburg Public Opinion reports that:

Two local organizations are hosting a Second Amendment Freedom Rally on from noone to 2 p.m. April 6 on Courthouse Plaza in downtown Chambersburg.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Chambersburg Public Opinion.

“Si vis pacem, para bellum !!”

Since: Dec 07

Southeast Virginia

#2758 May 13, 2013
Dan the Man Chambersburg wrote:
<quoted text>
The sale and transfer of ammonium nitrate is federally regulated.
You may not take box cutters and knives onto airplanes. That is regulated.
The sale, transfer, andd ownership of cars is regulated. The use of automobiles is regulated. The safety of cars is highly regulated.
Everything I posted is true. Your weak response was nothing but a lame attempt at avoidance of the facts.
Care to try again? LOL!
Ammonium nitrate regulation is only "proposed". It is not regulated. http://www.dhs.gov/ammonium-nitrate-security-...

The knife blade length law was tabled (for now) last month. http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/04/no-k...

I can buy any car I can afford. I can sell it to anyone I wish. And no matter how hard you stomp your feet. I don't have to register it unless I CHOOSE to.

Try again...again.

Since: May 12

Chambersburg, PA

#2759 May 13, 2013
[QUOTE who="Armed Veteran"
Here is a little clue for the clueless (that would be YOU). Not all criminals are such because of their own survival. Evil exists. Their are criminals out there who victimize innocent people simply because they can. These criminals as wolves. They prey on the weak because they have no conscience. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with survival. It has everything to do with it's simply because they want what you have and they are NOT willing to work to earn it themselves. I can kind of understand a father shoplifting food to feed his starving kids. But 99.999% of the time, that is not usually the case is it? More times than not, it is that father robbing the local QuickMart for cash to feed his drug habit and his kids be damned. He would rather score another hit and let his kids starve.
[/QUOTE]

LOL! When you allow your prejudices, bigotry, and false beliefs to dictate your political positions, you inevitably end up with irrational and objectively false political positions.

BTW - it's funny when the clueless accuse ANYBODY of being clueless. Especially when you direct it at those of us who make our decisions based on independent thinking and logical conclusions drawn from real-world, empirical evidence.
Armed Veteran wrote:
If you wish to continue to be a sheep and live in a country where only the criminals and government (redundancy alert) are armed, use your God-given freedom of choice and move to one, because it will NEVER happen here.
Me......I'm a sheepdog. I protect my flock (that would be my family and those around me). The problem with you is that you can't tell the difference between the wolves and the sheepdogs. All you see is teeth. And removing the fangs from the sheepdogs does NOTHING to protect you from the wolves. In fact, it leaves EVERYONE defenseless against them.
LMAO! What a very clever analogy.

Of course it's an argument against a strawman that doesn't exist, but if it makes you feel clever, good on you.

Nobody is suggesting disarming everyone. That's the bullshit argument you fabricate since you don't have the intelligence or critical thinking skills to deal with the reality of the matter.

Here's the bottom line:
- 33,000 Americans die from guns every single year.
- I want to do something to reduce that number because I care about the lives of my fellow Americans.
- You want to do mental gymnastics to avoid doing anything about that number because you don't give a shit about those deaths.

Everything you post is designed to justify your callous, un-American disregard for life.

“Si vis pacem, para bellum !!”

Since: Dec 07

Southeast Virginia

#2760 May 13, 2013
Dan the Man Chambersburg wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry, the CDC and FBI don't support your FALSE conclusion that the murder and suicide rate would remain the same without guns. You made that shit up. It's a belief you have that is contradicted by all the scientific evidence.
<quoted text>
This is a small fraction of the 33,000 gun deaths every year.
To use this small fraction to EXCUSE the rest is disgusting and offensive.
Fine...post your "scientific evidence".{snicker}

“Si vis pacem, para bellum !!”

Since: Dec 07

Southeast Virginia

#2761 May 13, 2013
sure wrote:
<quoted text>
they do in most places. Somebody is probably buying off your sheriff or some antigovernment teabagger folks in that jurisdiction are making sure they don't have the resources to do their job. Why do want to surrender to the criminals?
I'm don't want to surrender to the criminals...whether be on the street or in DC. It is you and your anti-gun, pro-regulation ilk that are insisting that I do.

Since: May 12

Chambersburg, PA

#2763 May 13, 2013
Armed Veteran wrote:
<quoted text>
Ammonium nitrate regulation is only "proposed". It is not regulated. http://www.dhs.gov/ammonium-nitrate-security-...
The knife blade length law was tabled (for now) last month. http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/04/no-k...
I can buy any car I can afford. I can sell it to anyone I wish. And no matter how hard you stomp your feet. I don't have to register it unless I CHOOSE to.
Try again...again.
LOL! Your acrobatics are amusing.

You can buy any car you wish - but that transaction is reported to the state who keeps track of the VIN of the vehicle and who owns it. You can sell it to whoever you wish, but the state tracks the transaction and identifying information on the seller.

But back to the point - automobile DEATHS. Because people are killed by cars, auto safety is highly regulated - crash-safety standards for cars, mandatory speed limits, mandatory seat belt laws, air bags, driver licensing, testing before people can get licenses, etc., etc.

You can try to distract from what I was ACTUALLY saying all you want. You can act blindingly ignorant of the real-world facts.

But that doesn't change that - as I said - people die in car accidents so we highly regulate the manufacture, sale, and use of automobiles. There's no rational reason not to do the same thing with guns.

“O'er the land of the free ? ”

Since: Jan 09

Don't Tread On Me

#2764 May 13, 2013
Dan the Man Chambersburg wrote:
<quoted text>
Nobody's talking about outlawing guns.
Why can't you debate on reality? Why do you have to create a strawman to argue with?
Sham ,what gives ?

You make a fool out of yourself post after post.

Is that what you desire or do you do it for attention ?

New York state passes act banning assault weapons



Democratic Assault Rifle Confiscation Legislation

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Dianne Feinstein caught in a lie

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Since: May 12

Chambersburg, PA

#2765 May 13, 2013
Armed Veteran wrote:
<quoted text>
Fine...post your "scientific evidence".{snicker}
LOL! You laugh like it doesn't exist.

But just because you're embarrassingly ignorant doesn't mean I'm wrong (snicker)...

----------

Harvard Injury Control Research Center

1-2. Gun availability is a risk factor for suicide (literature reviews).

We performed reviews of the academic literature on the effects of gun availability on suicide rates. The preponderance of current evidence indicates that gun availability is a risk factor for youth suicide in the United States. The evidence that gun availability increases the suicide rates of adults is credible, but is currently less compelling. Most of the disaggregate findings of particular studies (e.g. handguns are more of a risk factor than long guns, guns stored unlocked pose a greater risk than guns stored locked) are suggestive but not yet well established.

Miller, Matthew; Hemenway, David. The relationship between firearms and suicide: A review of the literature. Aggression and Violent Behavior: A Review Journal. 1999; 4:59-75.

Miller, Matthew; Hemenway, David. Gun prevalence and the risk of suicide: A review. Harvard Health Policy Review. 2001; 2:29-37.



3. Across states, more guns = more suicide (cross sectional analyses)

Using a validated proxy for firearm ownership rates, we analyzed the relationship between firearm availability and suicide across 50 states over a ten year period (1988-1997). After controlling for poverty and urbanization, for every age group, across the United States, people in states with many guns have elevated rates of suicide, particularly firearm suicide.

Miller, Matthew; Azrael, Deborah; Hemenway, David. Household firearm ownership levels and suicide across U.S. regions and states, 1988-1997. Epidemiology. 2002; 13:517-524.



4. Across states, more guns = more suicide (2)(cross sectional analyses)

Using survey data on rates of household gun ownership, we examined the association between gun availability and suicide across states, 1999-2001. States with higher levels of household gun ownership had higher rates of firearm suicide and overall suicide. This relationship held for both genders and all age groups. It remained true after accounting for poverty, urbanization and unemployment. There was no association between gun prevalence and non-firearm suicide.

Miller, Matthew; Lippmann, Steven; Azrael, Deborah; Hemenway, David. Household firearm ownership and rates of suicide across U.S. states. Journal of Trauma. 2007; 62:1029-35.



5. Across states, more guns = more suicides (time series analysis)

Using survey data on rates of household gun ownership, we examined the association between gun availability and suicide over time, 1981-2001. Changes in the levels of household firearm gun ownership was significantly associated with changes in both firearm suicide and overall suicide, for men, women and children, even after controlling for region, unemployment, alcohol consumption and poverty. There was no relationship between changes in gun ownership and changes in non-firearm suicide.

Miller, Matthew; Azrael, Deborah; Hepburn, Lisa; Hemenway, David; Lippman, Steven.“The association between changes in household firearm ownership and rates of suicide in the United States, 1981-2002.” Injury Prevention. 2006; 12:178-82.

6. Across states, more guns = more suicide (Northeast)

We analyzed data on suicide and suicide attempts for states in the Northeast. Even after controlling for rates of attempted suicide, states with more guns had higher rates of suicide.

Miller, Matthew; Hemenway, David; Azrael, Deborah. Firearms and suicide in the Northeast. Journal of Trauma. 2004; 57:626-632.

Since: May 12

Chambersburg, PA

#2766 May 13, 2013
7. Across U.S. regions, more guns = more suicide(cross sectional analysis)

We analyzed the relationship of gun availability and suicide among differing age groups across the 9 US regions. After controlling for divorce, education, unemployment, poverty and urbanization, the statistically significant relationship holds for 15 to 24 year olds and 45 to 84 year olds, but not for 25 to 44 year olds.

Birckmayer, Johanna; Hemenway, David. Suicide and gun prevalence: Are youth disproportionately affected? Suicide and Life Threatening Behavior. 2001; 31:303-310.



8. Differences in mental health cannot explain the regional more guns = more suicide connection.

We analyzed the relationship of gun availability and suicide among differing age groups across the 9 US regions. Levels of gun ownership are highly correlated with suicide rates across all age groups, even after controlling for lifetime major depression and serious suicidal thoughts

Hemenway, David; Miller, Matthew. The association of rates of household handgun ownership, lifetime major depression and serious suicidal thoughts with rates of suicide across US census regions. Injury Prevention. 2002; 8:313-16.



9. Gun owners do not have more mental health problems than non-owners

We added questions to, and analyzed data from the National Comorbidity Study.

Gun owning households do not have more mental health problems than non-gun owning households; differences in mental health do not explain why gun owners and their families are at higher risk for completed suicide than non-gun owning families.

Miller, Matthew; Molnar, Beth; Barber, Catherine; Hemenway, David; Azrael, Deborah. Recent psychopathology, suicidal thoughts and suicide attempts in households with vs. without firearms: findings from the National Comorbidity Study Replication. Injury Prevention. 2009; 15:183-87.



10. Gun owners are not more suicidal than non-owners

We analyzed data from the Second Injury Control and Risk Survey, a 2001-2003 representative telephone survey of U.S. households. Of over 9,000 respondents, 7% reported past-year suicidal thoughts, and 21% of these had a plan. Respondents with firearms in the home were no more likely to report suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts, but if they had a suicidal plan, it was much more likely to involve firearms. The higher rates of suicide among gun owners and their families cannot be explained by higher rates of suicidal behavior, but can be explained by easy access to a gun.

Betz, Marian E; Barber, Catherine; Miller, Matthew. Suicidal behavior and firearm access: results from the second injury control and risk survey (ICARIS-2). Suicide and Life Threatening Behaviors 2011; 41:384-91.



11. Adolescents who commit suicide with a gun use the family gun

The vast majority of adolescent suicide guns come from parents of other family members.

Johnson, Rene M; Barber, Catherine; Azrael, Deborah; Clark, David E; Hemenway, David. Who are the owners of firearms used in adolescent suicides? Suicide and Life Threatening Behavior. 2010; 40:609-611.



12. The case-fatality rate for suicide attempts with guns is higher than other methods

Across the Northeast, case fatality rates ranged from over 90% for firearms to under 5% for drug overdoses, cutting and piercing (the most common methods of attempted suicide). Hospital workers rarely see the type of suicide (firearm suicide) that is most likely to end in death.

Miller, Matthew; Azrael, Deborah; Hemenway, David. The epidemiology of case fatality rates for suicide in the Northeast. Annals of Emergency Medicine. 2004; 723-30.

Since: May 12

Chambersburg, PA

#2767 May 13, 2013
13. The public does not understand the importance of method availability.

Over 2,700 respondents to a national random-digit-dial telephone survey were asked to estimate how many of the more than 1,000 people who had jumped from the Golden Gate Bridge would have gone on to commit suicide some other way if an effective suicide barrier had been installed. Over 1/3 of respondents estimated that none of the suicides could have been prevented. Respondents most likely to believe that no one could have been saved were cigarette smokers and gun owners.

Miller, Matthew; Azrael, Deborah; Hemenway, David. Belief in the inevitability of suicide: Results from a national survey. Suicide and Life Threatening Behavior. 2006; 36:1-11.



14. Physicians need to do more to help reduce access to lethal means

This commentary presents the overwhelming evidence that the availability of lethal means increases the suicide rate and argues that physicians need to take an active role in reducing access for potentially suicidal individuals.

Miller, Matthew; Hemenway, David. Guns and suicide in the United States. The New England Journal of Medicine. 2008; 359:989-991.



15. ED physicians and nurses rarely counsel about lethal means restriction

In one Boston emergency department, ED physicians and nurses believe they should counsel suicidal patients on lethal means restriction, but they often don’t. Psychiatrists working at the ED were much more likely to ask about firearms.

Betz, Marian E; Barber, Catherine; Miller, Matthew. Lethal means restriction as suicide prevention: variation in belief and practices among providers in an urban ED. Injury Prevention. 2010; 16:278-81.



16. Mental health providers can be trained to reduce the risk of gun suicide

The CALM workshops were effective in improving mental health care providers’ attitudes, beliefs and skills regarding lethal means counseling.

Johnson, Rene M; Frank, Elaine; Ciocca, Mark; Barber, Catherine. Training mental health providers to reduce at-risk patients’ access to lethal means of suicide: Evaluation of the CALM project. Archives of Suicide Research. 2011 15(3):259-264.



17. Suicide training in means reduction can be accomplished via the internet

This article describes HICRC’s National Center for Suicide Prevention Training, which uses the public health approach and includes training on means restriction.

Stone, Deborah; Barber, Catherine, Posner, Marc. Improving public health practice in suicide prevention through online training: a case example. In: Sher, Leo & Vilens, Alexander., eds. Internet and Suicide. New York: Nova Science, 2009.

18. Lethal means reduction strategies can successfully reduce suicide

This article summarizes recent additions to the scientific literature about means restriction policies and suicide

Johnson, Rene M; Coyne-Beasley, Tamera. Lethal means reduction: what have we learned? Current Opinion in Pediatrics. 2009; 21: 635–640

Since: May 12

Chambersburg, PA

#2768 May 13, 2013
19. Veterans have high rates of firearm suicide

There are no differences in suicide risk among middle-aged and older male veterans and non-veterans. Suicide by firearm is higher, suicide by non-firearm is lower. It is probable that lower baseline risk of active duty soldiers (healthy worker effect) tend to be counterbalanced by the accessibility of firearms to these veterans.

Miller, Matthew; Barber, Catherine; Azrael, Deborah, Calle, Eugenia E; Lawler, Elizabeth; Mukamal, Kenneth J. Suicide among US veterans: a prospective study of 500,000 middle-aged and elderly men. American Journal of Epidemiology. 2009; 170:494-500.



20. There are effective ways to reduce suicide without affecting mental health

This introduction to suicide as an international public health problem examines the role of promoting mental health, changing cultural norms, and reducing the availability of lethal means in preventing suicide

Barber, Catherine; Miller, Matthew. A public health approach to preventing suicide. In: Finkel, Madelon L. Perspectives in Public Health:Challenges for the Future. Santa Barbara CA: Praeger Publishers, 2010.



21. Differences in suicide rates across the US are best explained by gun prevalence

This summary of the scientific literature on suicide in the United States emphasizes the importance of levels of household firearm ownership in explaining different rates of suicide over time and across states, households and genders.

Miller, Matthew; Azrael, Deboarh; Barber, Catherine. Suicide mortality in the United States: The importance of attending to method in understanding population-level disparities in the burden of suicide. Annual Review of Public Health 2012;33:393-408.



22. Reducing access to lethal means can begin to reduce suicide rates today

This editorial in an issue of the flagship public health journal devoted entirely to veteran suicide emphasizes the importance of the availability of firearms in determining whether suicide attempts prove fatal.

Miller, Matthew. Preventing suicide by preventing lethal injury: the need to act on what we already know. American Journal of Public Health 2012; 102(S1):e1-3.

Since: May 12

Chambersburg, PA

#2769 May 13, 2013
Armed Veteran wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm don't want to surrender to the criminals...whether be on the street or in DC. It is you and your anti-gun, pro-regulation ilk that are insisting that I do.
You sure do love arguing with that strawman.

When are you going to debate what I've actually said? LOL!

“HUNTING RIGHTS ADVOCATE”

Since: Oct 08

Boggy Creek

#2770 May 13, 2013
Dan the Man Chambersburg wrote:
<quoted text>
There are cultural reasons for the high suicide rate in Japan. If they had the rate of gun ownership America does, the rate would be exponentially higher.You're not big on critical thinking, are you?
When you're simple-minded, you're going to have a simple-minded solution for everything.
How about some proof of your wild and unfounded claims. Show me data that backs up your claim that the suicide rate would be higher if they had guns. Prove your idiotic claim Danny Boy. Show me proof that the mere presence of a weapon induces mass suicide.

"You're not big on critical thinking, are you?
When you're simple-minded, you're going to have a simple-minded solution for everything." I couldn't describe you better if I tried! You're a complete idiot Danny Boy, get used to it 'cause it ain't gonna' change.

Since: May 12

Chambersburg, PA

#2771 May 13, 2013
Armed Veteran wrote:
<quoted text>
Fine...post your "scientific evidence".{snicker}
Given your obvious intellectual and comprehension handicaps, I'm going to give you some time to digest the scientific evidence that UTTERLY and TOTALLY refutes your false beliefs on guns and suicide.

Let me know when you're ready for the scientific evidence on guns and homicide rates.

(snicker)

Since: May 12

Chambersburg, PA

#2772 May 13, 2013
Where Is My America wrote:
<quoted text>Sham ,what gives ?
You make a fool out of yourself post after post.
Is that what you desire or do you do it for attention ?
New York state passes act banning assault weapons
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =FwPLBjBOGDkXX
Democratic Assault Rifle Confiscation Legislation
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
Dianne Feinstein caught in a lie
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
Nothing here supports the paranoid belief that there is an effort to disarm America.

Do you think it actually does?

Are you REALLY that stupid?

Since: May 12

Chambersburg, PA

#2773 May 13, 2013
Squach wrote:
<quoted text>How about some proof of your wild and unfounded claims. Show me data that backs up your claim that the suicide rate would be higher if they had guns. Prove your idiotic claim Danny Boy. Show me proof that the mere presence of a weapon induces mass suicide.
Don't be stupid. You know that's not what I said.

“O'er the land of the free ? ”

Since: Jan 09

Don't Tread On Me

#2774 May 13, 2013
Dan the Man Chambersburg wrote:
<quoted text>
Nothing here supports the paranoid belief that there is an effort to disarm America.
Do you think it actually does?
Are you REALLY that stupid?
I am positive you are brain dead and because you are brain dead you will never know , you are brain dead.

Since: May 12

Chambersburg, PA

#2776 May 13, 2013
Where Is My America wrote:
<quoted text>I am positive you are brain dead and because you are brain dead you will never know , you are brain dead.
Just because reality doesn't conform with your irrational, paranoid belief system doesn't make me brain dead.

Listen, you are certainly free to believe bullshit and lies. Just don't expect those of us capable of independent thought and logical reasoning to agree with you.

Since: May 12

Chambersburg, PA

#2777 May 13, 2013
Scientific research on guns and homicide...

----------

Harvard Injury Control Research Center

1. Where there are more guns there is more homicide (literature review).

Our review of the academic literature found that a broad array of evidence indicates that gun availability is a risk factor for homicide, both in the United States and across high-income countries. Case-control studies, ecological time-series and cross-sectional studies indicate that in homes, cities, states and regions in the US, where there are more guns, both men and women are at higher risk for homicide, particularly firearm homicide.

Hepburn, Lisa; Hemenway, David. Firearm availability and homicide: A review of the literature. Aggression and Violent Behavior: A Review Journal. 2004; 9:417-40.

2. Across high-income nations, more guns = more homicide.

We analyzed the relationship between homicide and gun availability using data from 26 developed countries from the early 1990s. We found that across developed countries, where guns are more available, there are more homicides. These results often hold even when the United States is excluded.

Hemenway, David; Miller, Matthew. Firearm availability and homicide rates across 26 high income countries. Journal of Trauma. 2000; 49:985-88.

3. Across states, more guns = more homicide

Using a validated proxy for firearm ownership, we analyzed the relationship between firearm availability and homicide across 50 states over a ten year period (1988-1997).

After controlling for poverty and urbanization, for every age group, people in states with many guns have elevated rates of homicide, particularly firearm homicide.

Miller, Matthew; Azrael, Deborah; Hemenway, David. Household firearm ownership levels and homicide rates across U.S. regions and states, 1988-1997. American Journal of Public Health. 2002: 92:1988-1993.

4. Across states, more guns = more homicide (2)

Using survey data on rates of household gun ownership, we examined the association between gun availability and homicide across states, 2001-2003. We found that states with higher levels of household gun ownership had higher rates of firearm homicide and overall homicide. This relationship held for both genders and all age groups, after accounting for rates of aggravated assault, robbery, unemployment, urbanization, alcohol consumption, and resource deprivation (e.g., poverty). There was no association between gun prevalence and non-firearm homicide.

Miller, Matthew; Azrael, Deborah; Hemenway, David. State-level homicide victimization rates in the U.S. in relation to survey measures of household firearm ownership, 2001-2003. Social Science and Medicine. 2007; 64:656-64.

“Si vis pacem, para bellum !!”

Since: Dec 07

Southeast Virginia

#2778 May 13, 2013
Dan the Man Chambersburg wrote:
<quoted text>{snipped for brevity}
ROFLMAO!!!!
"Suggestive but not yet establish...".... that means it doesn't really mean exactly what we are looking for, but here is what we think.
"Controlling for..."....that means data manipulation towards what we are trying to prove.
Why not just let the data speak for itself instead of trying to manipulate it towards an agenda. Oh yeah....because that wouldn't fit YOUR agenda. LMAO!!!
You are a f-ing joke at best, and willfully ignorant at worst.

Since: May 12

Chambersburg, PA

#2779 May 13, 2013
Armed Veteran wrote:
<quoted text>
ROFLMAO!!!!
"Suggestive but not yet establish...".... that means it doesn't really mean exactly what we are looking for, but here is what we think.
"Controlling for..."....that means data manipulation towards what we are trying to prove.
Why not just let the data speak for itself instead of trying to manipulate it towards an agenda. Oh yeah....because that wouldn't fit YOUR agenda. LMAO!!!
You are a f-ing joke at best, and willfully ignorant at worst.
Oh sweet Jesus, you're an imbecile! You don't have even an elementary understanding of how scientific research is reported.

I should have known that you don't have the mental capacity or education to comprehend scientific research.

I'm really sorry you're an idiot. But given that you are, it's obvious that facts, reality, and objective scientific evidence aren't going to influence your thinking. You will continue to believe whatever it is that you WANT to believe.

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