Shooting raises questions about CCW law

Shooting raises questions about CCW law

There are 102 comments on the Portsmouth Daily Times story from Jul 19, 2012, titled Shooting raises questions about CCW law. In it, Portsmouth Daily Times reports that:

A recent local shooting has brought people out of the woodwork asking questions about the facts surrounding the case, including questions about concealed carry permits, laws, and practices.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Portsmouth Daily Times.

No Problem

Portsmouth, OH

#68 Jul 24, 2012
scott wrote:
<quoted text>
A firearm should never be pulled unless you plan on using it. Mr. Holesinger made a mistake. But when given an opportunity to resolve the argument by leaving Mr. Staker should have left instead of firing his firearm. Even if shooting Mr. Holesinger was the only option, shooting a guy five times is not self defense. I believe both guys made mistakes and things should have been done differently by both people. The thing is Mr. Staker had a choice to leave and not to shoot.
You sound like the same guy, disregarding the same simple logic, just posting under different names.

Mr Holsinger made a series of poor decisions, leading to his own demise.

HE, you, myself and everyone is in the world are primarily responsible for our OWN actions.

ANYone who pulls a weapon on another person has threatened to take that person's life...

You've ALSO rolled the dice with your OWN life...

Mr Holsinger apparently thought that risk was worth taking, and lost.

Tragic decision, but one he was SOLELY responsible for.
No Problem

Portsmouth, OH

#69 Jul 24, 2012
GodHaveMercy wrote:
What scares me is idiots like No Problem "Clearly" having no knowledge of the law, spouting off crap like NOT VALID.
Helpful link for those who are interested in knowing(or in some cases those who do have the license and should know, yet spew forth garbage) what the CCW laws are in Ohio.
http://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/files/Publ...
Please by all means scroll towards the bottom, or better yet read it for the first time those who allegedly have it.
Please take note of the part that is "CLEARLY" marked self defense.
Condition 1: Defendant Is Not At Fault
Maybe, the law does not define aggressor as the first person who pulls a gun. It is part of the definition but not all.
Condition 2: Reasonable and Honest Belief of Danger
Yeah might buy that one, he wasn't scared for 2 hours banging on the house. Why would he be scared when the guy walks out with a gun, puts it away, then points it at his face.
Condition 3: Duty to Retreat
Deal breaker here, had the ability to leave and failed to do so.
That Valid enough?
I'm very familiar with CCW law, instructors who conduct the classes, and a number of local, state and federal officials I know well.

You do NOT have a "duty to retreat" with a gun aimed in your face.

Clear enough?
holy hell

Portsmouth, OH

#70 Jul 24, 2012
No Problem wrote:
<quoted text>
You sound like the same guy, disregarding the same simple logic, just posting under different names.
Mr Holsinger made a series of poor decisions, leading to his own demise.
HE, you, myself and everyone is in the world are primarily responsible for our OWN actions.
ANYone who pulls a weapon on another person has threatened to take that person's life...
You've ALSO rolled the dice with your OWN life...
Mr Holsinger apparently thought that risk was worth taking, and lost.
Tragic decision, but one he was SOLELY responsible for.
WTF!!! they where trespassing on his freaking property, holsinger did not ask the to come to HIS house and bang on the door and windows for 2 hours at 10:30 at night Jesus Christ!!! Wtf Is wrong with you people!
Godhavemercy

Portsmouth, OH

#72 Jul 24, 2012
No Problem wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm very familiar with CCW law, instructors who conduct the classes, and a number of local, state and federal officials I know well.
You do NOT have a "duty to retreat" with a gun aimed in your face.
Clear enough?
Ah so you know the laws, and do not have to follow them. Even though through self admission being asked to leave the grounds said person had no duty to retreat? Even though that is one of the requisites of self defense In the state of Ohio according to information given by some guy named Mike Dewine.
This is the exact same as someone going to someone's house and attempting to rob them. Then when the home owner comes out with a gun to protect his home, he gets shot and the perp claims self defense. That's garbage this isn't the 1900''s at the OK corral. By breaking the law,by self admission I might add, you are unable to claim self defense. The laws are clear just from the attorney generals pamphlet, what really baffles me is that self defense was an affirmative defense, meaning that it is decided by a jury regardless of the sheriffs or lead detectives fellings towards it. It would be the burden of the defense in a criminal court to prove that it was in fact self defense. Instead of not spending a moment in jail and allegedly leaving the county.
godhavemercy

Portsmouth, OH

#73 Jul 24, 2012
No Problem wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm very familiar with CCW law, instructors who conduct the classes, and a number of local, state and federal officials I know well.
You do NOT have a "duty to retreat" with a gun aimed in your face.
Clear enough?
Federal officials have a lot of authority over Ohio CCW law's? By the way i know gods officials does that make me a cool kid?
Only in Scioto County

Athens, OH

#74 Jul 25, 2012
Only in Scioto County wrote:
Still want question answered...Was the mower there?
Hmmm! No one on here can answer this question because no one knows. Can anyone 100% positively say that the mower was at the Holsinger residence?
blah blah blah

Greenup, KY

#75 Jul 25, 2012
Godhavemercy wrote:
<quoted text>Ah so you know the laws, and do not have to follow them. Even though through self admission being asked to leave the grounds said person had no duty to retreat? Even though that is one of the requisites of self defense In the state of Ohio according to information given by some guy named Mike Dewine.
This is the exact same as someone going to someone's house and attempting to rob them. Then when the home owner comes out with a gun to protect his home, he gets shot and the perp claims self defense. That's garbage this isn't the 1900''s at the OK corral. By breaking the law,by self admission I might add, you are unable to claim self defense. The laws are clear just from the attorney generals pamphlet, what really baffles me is that self defense was an affirmative defense, meaning that it is decided by a jury regardless of the sheriffs or lead detectives fellings towards it. It would be the burden of the defense in a criminal court to prove that it was in fact self defense. Instead of not spending a moment in jail and allegedly leaving the county.
I have been trying to explain this to "No Problem" and he/she believes what we say is invalid, however I read the laws the same as you, I think he is just a cold hearted person!
The truth

Ironton, OH

#76 Jul 25, 2012
Well I have thought it was time for a change in the office of Sheriff for 2 terms now. Hopefully the residents of Scioto County will look at this as it is, an armed man trying to break in to a mans house- home owner comes out with gun and gets shot. Armed man who was the one tress passing goes home because he thinks he has a ccw
scott

Portsmouth, OH

#77 Jul 25, 2012
No Problem wrote:
<quoted text>You sound like the same guy, disregarding the same simple logic, just posting under different names.

Mr Holsinger made a series of poor decisions, leading to his own demise.

HE, you, myself and everyone is in the world are primarily responsible for our OWN actions.

ANYone who pulls a weapon on another person has threatened to take that person's life...

You've ALSO rolled the dice with your OWN life...

Mr Holsinger apparently thought that risk was worth taking, and lost.

Tragic decision, but one he was SOLELY responsible for.
Did mr. Holesinger point a gun to mr. Staker and say if u don't leave my property I will shoot you. If that is not the case then, mr. Staker had, I will put it in capital letters for you since you like them so well, OPTIONS. like LEAVING MR. Holesingers property. I know this is a bad example because I am sure I would be dead, but if I came to your house and would not leave and you pulled a gun on me and told me to leave or you are going to shoot me, do I have the right to shoot you. The answer is NO because I am at your house and I can LEAVE anytime on my own free will and I assure you I only post under my name, I do not have enough free time to have multiple topix accounts.
John Doe

Trenton, NJ

#78 Jul 25, 2012
Bob had to have him gunned down..he didnt pay for the mower
Lifelostfor noreason

Cincinnati, OH

#79 Jul 28, 2012
Bet you anything Bobs gun WASin the truck!!
Lifelostfor noreason

Cincinnati, OH

#80 Jul 28, 2012
Questiosn is.....don't. Think they even owed!!
Kill-da-Treyvons

Greenup, KY

#81 Jul 28, 2012
jw wrote:
I have my CCW and you can not pull a gun and use it unless your life was in danger and that by using your gun was the only way out. In my opinion Staker killed this man in cold-blood.. They waited till dark to go to his house, harassed him for hours, then shot him when he told them to leave. According to the CCW laws you must retreat first before you are allowed to fire.. It's not the CCW laws that need to be looked at, apparently it is the laws concerning what is murder and homicide. Because that is the only thing that is out of line here. Tyler was in the wrong and now we have another trigger happy murderer walking around on the street.
Actually, ohio has the castle Doctrine, which removes the duty to retreat. The burden of retreat is on the attacker, thief, druggy and what not.

There is no you must retreat before you fire, its a simple law if you legitimatly feel your life is threatend, you may fire. No retreat, no running, no having to try and escape first. You may draw and fire.
Bubba

Ashland, KY

#82 Jul 28, 2012
Question. What do you think would have happened to Mr Holdinger had he shot Mr Staker? Yes he would be in jail now and charged with murder. Sheriff is personal friends with Mr Staker he is confused and dorsnt understand trespass and murder so he passes the buck to Kouns. Kouns is no better so for the first time in his career he takes "time" to make sure what he is supposed to do this translated means he is looking for a loophole NOT to charge Mr Staker and that takes time. Both share in responsibility but that does not mean its a draw and no one is punished. Mr Staker should have left. And it is time we have a NEW sheriff.
Bronze medalist

Trenton, NJ

#83 Aug 1, 2012
The man pointed his 22 pistol at bob and tyler popped him with his 45..So carry a bigger gun the bob and tyler if you plan on stealing their mowers
Lifelostfor noreason

Cincinnati, OH

#84 Aug 3, 2012
Been hearing Tyler Staker ran to Sandusky Ohio the day after he SHOT AND KILLED A MAN!! Isnt that what murderers do after they MURDER someone? Is this a RUN TYLER RUN ORDEAL? Sure seems like it.
Well

Waverly, OH

#85 Aug 3, 2012
Lifelostfor noreason wrote:
Been hearing Tyler Staker ran to Sandusky Ohio the day after he SHOT AND KILLED A MAN!! Isnt that what murderers do after they MURDER someone? Is this a RUN TYLER RUN ORDEAL? Sure seems like it.
I think all this started as a joke by Alllol whatever his name is on here.I read it a long time ago.
Lifelostfor noreason

Cincinnati, OH

#87 Aug 4, 2012
You are sadly mistaking if you think thats a joke. This came from a very reliable source
Well

Waverly, OH

#88 Aug 4, 2012
Lifelostfor noreason wrote:
You are sadly mistaking if you think thats a joke. This came from a very reliable source
Even if he did leave town what is the big deal?

“Why call 911? 1911 is faster”

Since: Feb 08

Wesley Chapel, FL

#89 Aug 5, 2012
Madlaw wrote:
The only question is why there has been no arrest.The laws were clearly broken and it does need looked into and from what I see,it is finally getting the attention it needs.CNN also has been advised and are watching the story as it unfolds.
Not so quick. The deceased attempted to use a firearm in the furtherance of an argument.

About 10:20 p.m., Holsinger came out onto his porch with a gun in his hand and was very upset. According to the release, Holsinger put the gun into his pocket for a short time -- then got upset and pulled out the gun telling Tyler and his father that they had three seconds to get off his property. Holsinger then raised the weapon, pointing it at Tylerís face. At that point, Tyler shot Holsinger several times, according to the release. Source: http://www.wsaz.com/news/headlines/Wheelersbu...

Based on the facts of the evidence we have this may have been a legal use of a firearm for self-defense. More facts are needed.

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