Dan Carpenter: We love our guns -- and have the deaths to show for it

May 11, 2013 Full story: The Indianapolis Star 223

Law enforcers at the city and federal levels have taken the offensive against rampant gun violence in several Indianapolis neighborhoods.

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“Shall NOT be infringed!”

Since: Apr 13

San Jose, CA.

#1 May 11, 2013
Dan Carpenter is oblivious to the REAL problem. It is 'gun control' that IS the cause of the problem. If We The People were all armed as is Constitutionally INTENDED. Then the criminals would be much less emboldened in perpetrating their crimes.

Our treasonous governments have been conspiring against our inalienable natural right for well over a century. And their perverse game playing has caused the deaths of THOUSANDS of American people. We The People are to be armed against ALL enemies; foreign or domestic. And our domestic enemies in government know this for a FACT. Which is why they have worked so hard to eliminate the right to keep and bear arms. As only a complete fool would perpetrate a crime in the midst of a sea of armed people. As the James-Younger Gang found out, much to their dismay, in their ill-fated attempt to rob the Northfield First National Bank in Minnesota.

Would suggest that Dan give more attention to being a real American. Rather than on promoting infringement, and a police state. Don't like it here in our intended Constitutional Republic, Dan? Then move to a socialist country.
More

Santa Fe, NM

#2 May 11, 2013
GunShow1 wrote:
Our treasonous governments have been conspiring against our inalienable natural right for well over a century. And their perverse game playing has caused the deaths of THOUSANDS of American people.
.
terrorist chatter

“Shall NOT be infringed!”

Since: Apr 13

San Jose, CA.

#3 May 11, 2013
More wrote:
<quoted text>
terrorist chatter
Hey, democtat party HYPOCRITES.

Care to explain THIS?

BUCHANAN AND BRECKINRIDGE

THE DEMOCRATIC HAND-BOOK,

COMPILED BY

MICH. W. CLUSKEY,

OF

WASHINGTON CITY, D.C.

RECOMMENDED BY THE

DEMOCRATIC MATIONAL COMMITTEE.

The success of the Democracy essential for the preservation of the Union and the
protection of the integrity of the Constitution

WASHINGTON:

PRINTED BY R.A. WATERS
1856

Mr. COLFAX. What is the date of that?

Mr. STEPHENS. Last November. Now ....

"... I will not go to the gentleman's State, or to any other gentleman's State, to find laws that I do not approve. We have plenty of them in my own State. And the gentleman ought to feel highly blessed if he has none in Indiana that he disapproves. We have a great many in Georgia I do not approve. There is one in particular which I fought in the legislature and opposed before the courts with all the power that I had. It was a law making it penal to bear concealed deadly weapons. I am individually opposed to bearing such weapons. I never bear weapons of any sort; but I believed that it was the constitutional right of every American citizen to bear arms if he chooses, and just such arms, and in just such way, as he chooses. I thought that it was the birthright of every Georgian to do it. I was defeated in our legislature.
I was defeated before our courts. The question went up to the highest judicial tribunal in our State, the Supreme Court*, which sustained the law..." [*Nunn v. State, 1 Ga.(1 Kel.) 243 (1846).]

[Hon. Alexander H. Stephens, June 28, 1856, U.S. House of Representatives.(Mr. Stephens served as a U.S. Representative
from Georgia,(before and after the Civil War). He was also Vice President of the Confederate States of America, and the 50th
Governor of Georgia from 1882 until his death in 1883).]

Since: Feb 11

Location hidden

#4 May 16, 2013
Waitress: ...spam spam spam egg and spam; spam spam spam spam spam spam baked beans spam spam spam...

“Shall NOT be infringed!”

Since: Apr 13

San Jose, CA.

#6 May 16, 2013
barefoot2626 wrote:
Waitress:...spam spam spam egg and spam; spam spam spam spam spam spam baked beans spam spam spam...
"The American citizens are intelligent, well educated, and awake to the preservation their liberties; every where armed, and trained to the use of arms, and comprising a militia of nearly a million of free men, Are such a country, and such a people, in jeopardy; as to their freedom, from the existence a standing army of ten thousand men?"

- John Bristed,[THE RESOURCES OF THE OF AMERICA; OR, A VIEW OF THE AGRICULTURAL, COMMERCIAL, MANUFACTURING, FINANCIAL, POLITICAL, LITERARY, MORAL AND RELIGIOUS CAPACITY AND CHARACTER or THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. BY JOHN BRISTED, COUNSELLOR AT LAW. AUTHOR OF THE RESOURCES Of THE BRITISH EMPIRE. PUBLISHED BY JAMES EASTBURN & CO. AT THE LITERARY ROOMS, BROADWAY, CORNHR OF PINE STREET. Abraham Paul, printer. 1818

“Reality is better than truth.”

Since: Nov 09

Indianapolis

#7 May 16, 2013
Your comprehension of the constitution is idiotic. The founders never intended everyone to be armed; they ALLOWED them to be armed. It's a freedom, not a duty. But they had no idea that guns would progress to the point of firing multiple rounds per second.

If being armed makes one safe, how do gang wars work? Both sides are heavily armed, and people still die. Many people, both gang members and innocent bystanders. BTW--only a fool thinks frontier justice is a model for a modern civilization.

How does one have a "natural right" to a manufactured product?

Registration doesn't infringe on your ability to own guns.

Dan is a real american; you're just an ignorant moron with a gun fetish.
GunShow1 wrote:
Dan Carpenter is oblivious to the REAL problem. It is 'gun control' that IS the cause of the problem. If We The People were all armed as is Constitutionally INTENDED. Then the criminals would be much less emboldened in perpetrating their crimes.
Our treasonous governments have been conspiring against our inalienable natural right for well over a century. And their perverse game playing has caused the deaths of THOUSANDS of American people. We The People are to be armed against ALL enemies; foreign or domestic. And our domestic enemies in government know this for a FACT. Which is why they have worked so hard to eliminate the right to keep and bear arms. As only a complete fool would perpetrate a crime in the midst of a sea of armed people. As the James-Younger Gang found out, much to their dismay, in their ill-fated attempt to rob the Northfield First National Bank in Minnesota.
Would suggest that Dan give more attention to being a real American. Rather than on promoting infringement, and a police state. Don't like it here in our intended Constitutional Republic, Dan? Then move to a socialist country.

“Reality is better than truth.”

Since: Nov 09

Indianapolis

#8 May 16, 2013
You think the american people are well-educated? Most can't find their own state on a map. I guess these people who shoot others are rhodes scholars.

The fact is that we are a representative republic because the founders KNEW that a true democracy is just mob rule, and mobs are stupid by nature.

BTW--we could have easily lost the revolution if we didn't have assistance from france, poland, and germany. Your source was a lawyer, not a military expert.
GunShow1 wrote:
<quoted text>
"The American citizens are intelligent, well educated, and awake to the preservation their liberties; every where armed, and trained to the use of arms, and comprising a militia of nearly a million of free men, Are such a country, and such a people, in jeopardy; as to their freedom, from the existence a standing army of ten thousand men?"
- John Bristed,[THE RESOURCES OF THE OF AMERICA; OR, A VIEW OF THE AGRICULTURAL, COMMERCIAL, MANUFACTURING, FINANCIAL, POLITICAL, LITERARY, MORAL AND RELIGIOUS CAPACITY AND CHARACTER or THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. BY JOHN BRISTED, COUNSELLOR AT LAW. AUTHOR OF THE RESOURCES Of THE BRITISH EMPIRE. PUBLISHED BY JAMES EASTBURN & CO. AT THE LITERARY ROOMS, BROADWAY, CORNHR OF PINE STREET. Abraham Paul, printer. 1818
Linda Bledsoe

Pittsburgh, PA

#9 May 16, 2013
cpeter, you are making perfect sense here for a change. Well done, sir. ;)

“Shall NOT be infringed!”

Since: Apr 13

San Jose, CA.

#10 May 16, 2013
cpeter1313 wrote:
Your comprehension of the constitution is idiotic. The founders never intended everyone to be armed; they ALLOWED them to be armed. It's a freedom, not a duty. But they had no idea that guns would progress to the point of firing multiple rounds per second.
If being armed makes one safe, how do gang wars work? Both sides are heavily armed, and people still die. Many people, both gang members and innocent bystanders. BTW--only a fool thinks frontier justice is a model for a modern civilization.
How does one have a "natural right" to a manufactured product?
Registration doesn't infringe on your ability to own guns.
Dan is a real american; you're just an ignorant moron with a gun fetish.
<quoted text>
Not quite, traitor-troll:

U.S. LAW BOOK:

"29. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof: or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances [Amendments to the const. art. 1.[Pg. 72]

"30. The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed [Amend to const. art 2] ib

- Laws of The United States of America, From The 4th Of March, 1789, To The 4th Of March, 1815, Including The Constitution Of The United States, The Old Act of Confederation, Treaties, And Many Other Valuable Ordinances And Documents; WithCopious Notes And References. Arranged And Published Under The Authority Of An Act of Congress. In Five Volumes. Vol. V. Published By John Bioren And W. John Duane, Philidelphia, And R.C. Weightman, Washington City. 1815.

Do you see "militia" there? NO you do NOT. Do you see "shall NOT be infringed"? YES, you most certainly DO.

Take a hike, traitor.

“Shall NOT be infringed!”

Since: Apr 13

San Jose, CA.

#11 May 16, 2013
cpeter1313 wrote:
idiotic.
<quoted text>
"Here, then, every man,--whether native or naturalized, whether free or bond--for the provision comprehended every class and colour--every man capable of shouldering a musket, was required to be trained and armed, by our present Constitution; and the proposed to it, designates the militia as only to be for defence, and in this view Blackstone himself regarded the militia. The very second amendment to the Constitution of the United States, previous to which several of the States had refused to come into the compact, he begged to recommend to the attention of his friend from Allegheny,(Mr. Forward)--"a well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." Mark the admirable adaption of the language. There is said (Mr. I) an argument in it more than I could make in a year, all condensed. A regulated right of every man, to do what? To hear arms--and the Constitution says this right to bear arms "shall not be infringed." This "well regulated militia," which is "necessary to the security of a free State" is the right of every man to bear arms, and it is a right which "shall not be infringed." And when his friend from Allegheny said at first,(as he had understood him,) that the federal power absorbed all the rights of the states on this subject, he (.Mr I) confessed that he had felt himself excited almost to pugnacity. This right exceeded, was beyond the reach of the federal Constitution--it was supreme, above the supremacy of the Constitution--it was a right which the Constitution could not touch. It was nothing less than man's right to self defence, that power which could not be impaired by any power of government."

- Mr. Charles Jared Ingersoll, Oct. 24, 1837, PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES OF THE CONVENTION OF THE COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA, TO PROPOSE AMENDMENTS TO THE CONSTITUTION, COMMENCED AT HARRISBURG MAY 2 1837 VOL. IV. Reported by JOHN AGG, Stenographer: Assisted By Messrs. Wheeler, Kingman, Draks, and McKinley. HARRISBURG: PRINTED BY PACKER, BARRETT, And PARKE. 1838.(Ingersoll served twice as a United States representative, first from 1813 to 1815 and again from 1841 to 1847. In between these terms, he worked as the United States attorney for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania from 1815 to 1829 by appointment from President James Madison, was Pennsylvania state representative in 1830, and in 1837, was a delegate to the Pennsylvania state constitutional convention. Over the course of his governmental career, Ingersoll worked with a few U. S. presidents such as James Monroe, John Tyler, and James K. Polk).

Take a hike, lying traitor.

Since: Feb 11

Location hidden

#12 May 16, 2013
GunShow1 wrote:
1818
Waitress: Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam; spam bacon sausage and spam; spam egg spam spam bacon and spam; spam sausage spam spam bacon spam tomato and spam...

Since: Feb 11

Location hidden

#13 May 16, 2013
GunShow1 wrote:
Washington City. 1815.
Vikings: Spam spam spam spam...

Since: Feb 11

Location hidden

#14 May 16, 2013
GunShow1 wrote:
PRINTED BY PACKER, BARRETT, And PARKE. 1838.
Waitress:...spam spam spam egg and spam; spam spam spam spam spam spam baked beans spam spam spam...

“Reality is better than truth.”

Since: Nov 09

Indianapolis

#15 May 16, 2013
"Amendment II

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/bil...

This is the official transcript. BTW--it stopped being 1815 a helluva long time ago.

Literate doesn't equal treasonous, twit.
GunShow1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Not quite, traitor-troll:
U.S. LAW BOOK:
"29. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof: or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances [Amendments to the const. art. 1.[Pg. 72]
"30. The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed [Amend to const. art 2] ib
- Laws of The United States of America, From The 4th Of March, 1789, To The 4th Of March, 1815, Including The Constitution Of The United States, The Old Act of Confederation, Treaties, And Many Other Valuable Ordinances And Documents; WithCopious Notes And References. Arranged And Published Under The Authority Of An Act of Congress. In Five Volumes. Vol. V. Published By John Bioren And W. John Duane, Philidelphia, And R.C. Weightman, Washington City. 1815.
Do you see "militia" there? NO you do NOT. Do you see "shall NOT be infringed"? YES, you most certainly DO.
Take a hike, traitor.

“Reality is better than truth.”

Since: Nov 09

Indianapolis

#16 May 16, 2013
Ben franklin wanted the turkey to be the symbol of america. One opinion isn't a consensus, or even relevant. Nor was ingersoll considered to be a "founder."
GunShow1 wrote:
<quoted text>
"Here, then, every man,--whether native or naturalized, whether free or bond--for the provision comprehended every class and colour--every man capable of shouldering a musket, was required to be trained and armed, by our present Constitution; and the proposed to it, designates the militia as only to be for defence, and in this view Blackstone himself regarded the militia. The very second amendment to the Constitution of the United States, previous to which several of the States had refused to come into the compact, he begged to recommend to the attention of his friend from Allegheny,(Mr. Forward)--"a well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." Mark the admirable adaption of the language. There is said (Mr. I) an argument in it more than I could make in a year, all condensed. A regulated right of every man, to do what? To hear arms--and the Constitution says this right to bear arms "shall not be infringed." This "well regulated militia," which is "necessary to the security of a free State" is the right of every man to bear arms, and it is a right which "shall not be infringed." And when his friend from Allegheny said at first,(as he had understood him,) that the federal power absorbed all the rights of the states on this subject, he (.Mr I) confessed that he had felt himself excited almost to pugnacity. This right exceeded, was beyond the reach of the federal Constitution--it was supreme, above the supremacy of the Constitution--it was a right which the Constitution could not touch. It was nothing less than man's right to self defence, that power which could not be impaired by any power of government."
- Mr. Charles Jared Ingersoll, Oct. 24, 1837, PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES OF THE CONVENTION OF THE COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA, TO PROPOSE AMENDMENTS TO THE CONSTITUTION, COMMENCED AT HARRISBURG MAY 2 1837 VOL. IV. Reported by JOHN AGG, Stenographer: Assisted By Messrs. Wheeler, Kingman, Draks, and McKinley. HARRISBURG: PRINTED BY PACKER, BARRETT, And PARKE. 1838.(Ingersoll served twice as a United States representative, first from 1813 to 1815 and again from 1841 to 1847. In between these terms, he worked as the United States attorney for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania from 1815 to 1829 by appointment from President James Madison, was Pennsylvania state representative in 1830, and in 1837, was a delegate to the Pennsylvania state constitutional convention. Over the course of his governmental career, Ingersoll worked with a few U. S. presidents such as James Monroe, John Tyler, and James K. Polk).
Take a hike, lying traitor.
FormerParatroope r

Chicago, IL

#17 May 16, 2013
cpeter1313 wrote:
Your comprehension of the constitution is idiotic. The founders never intended everyone to be armed; they ALLOWED them to be armed. It's a freedom, not a duty. But they had no idea that guns would progress to the point of firing multiple rounds per second.
If being armed makes one safe, how do gang wars work? Both sides are heavily armed, and people still die. Many people, both gang members and innocent bystanders. BTW--only a fool thinks frontier justice is a model for a modern civilization.
How does one have a "natural right" to a manufactured product?
Registration doesn't infringe on your ability to own guns.
Dan is a real american; you're just an ignorant moron with a gun fetish.
<quoted text>
The Founders were not ignorant to technology. They were well read on history, military and civil. The were inventors, statesman, scientist and educated. In the time before the Colonies revolted, there were muskets rifles with revolving barrels being worked with. They were not practical until the advent on the percussion cap, and even then not reliable. The firearm had progressed from bamboo tubes to naval cannons. An example of foresight is Ben Franklin discussing the mobilization of soldiers from the sky.
To say they could not foresee the advances of firearm technology is unlikely.
Self defense is a natural right, not a manufactured right. The use of firearms were considered an extension of that right.

The various Militia Acts of the time did require firearm ownership. Exemptions were to groups such as the Quakers. They were not always enforced, there was more common sense in that time.

The issue of registration has a history of leading to confiscation, that is the reason it is opposed.

Gang wars? That is a ridiculous comparison to the responsible ownership of firearms.

“Shall NOT be infringed!”

Since: Apr 13

San Jose, CA.

#18 May 16, 2013
cpeter1313 wrote:
"Amendment II
<quoted text>
"As far as the whole body the people are necessary to the general defence, they ought to be armed; but the law ought to require more than is necessary; for that be a just cause of complaint."--Mr. Fitzsimons,[Pg. 1852]

"... Mr. Jackson said, that he was of opinion that the people of America would never consent to be deprived of the privilege of carrying arms. Though it may prove burthensome to some individuals to be obliged to arm themselves, yet it would not be so considered when the advantages were justly estimated."[Pg. 1852]

"In a Republic every man ought to be a soldier, and prepared to resist tyranny and usurpation, as well as invasion, and to prevent the greatest of all evils--a standing army. Mankind have been divided into three classes, Shepherds, Husbandmen, and Artificers--of which the last make the worst militia; but as the arts and sciences are the sources of great wealth to the community, which may excite the jealousy and avarice of neighbors, this class ought to be peculiarly qualified to defend themselves and repel invasions; and as this country is rising fast in manufactures, the arts and sciences, and from her fertile soil may expect great affluence, she ought to be able to protect that and her liberties from within herself ..."--Mr. Jackson [Pg. 1853]

"There are so few freemen in the United States who are not able to provide themselves arms and accoutrements, that any provision on the part of the United States is unnecessary and improper. He had no doubt that the people, if left to themselves, would provide arms as are necessary, without inconvenience or complaint; but if they are furnished by the United States, the public arsenals would soon be exhausted--and experience shows, that public property of this kind, from the careless manner in which many persons use it, is soon lost."--Mr. Sherman, Dec. 16, 1790.[Pg. 1854]

"He asked by what means minors were to themselves with the requisite articles? Many of them are apprentices. If you put arms into their hands, they will make good soldiers; but how are they to procure them? It is said, if they are supplied by the United States the property will be lost; if this is provided against, every objection may be obviated. He then offered an addition to the motion, providing for the return of the arms to the commanding officer."--Mr. Vining [Pg. 1855]

"Mr. Wadsworth apologized for detaining the attention of the committee a moment, while he asked the gentlemen who favored the motion what was the extent of their wishes? The motion at first appeared to be in favor of poor men, who are unable to purchase a firelock; but now it seems minors and apprentices are to be provided for. Is there a man in this House who would wish to see so large a proportion of the community, perhaps one-third armed by the United States, and liable to be disarmed by them? Nothing would tend more to excite suspicion, and rouse a jealousy dangerous to the Union. With respect to apprentices, every man knew that they were liable to this tax, and they were taken under the idea of being provided for by their masters; as to minors, their parents or guardians would prefer furnishing them with arms themselves, to depending on the United States when they knew they were liable to having them reclaimed." [Pg. 1855-56]....

- Annals of Congress. THE DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS IN THE CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES; WITH AN APPENDIX, CONTAINING IMPORTANT STATE PAPERS AND PUBLIC DOCUMENTS, AND ALL THE LAWS OF A PUBLIC NATURE
http://gunshowonthenet.blogspot.com/2013/05/t...

“Shall NOT be infringed!”

Since: Apr 13

San Jose, CA.

#20 May 16, 2013
cpeter1313 wrote:
"Amendment II
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/bil...
This is the official transcript. BTW--it stopped being 1815 a helluva long time ago.
Literate doesn't equal treasonous, twit.
<quoted text>
So you insist on proving your ignorance, and ignoring the FACTS? OK, get ready for an education:

The Preamble to The Bill of Rights

Congress of the United States
begun and held at the City of New-York, on
Wednesday the fourth of March, one thousand seven hundred and eighty nine.

THE Conventions of a number of the States, having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to PREVENT MISCONSTRUCTION or ABUSE of its powers, that further DECLARATORY and RESTRICTIVE clauses should be added: And as EXTENDING the ground of PUBLIC CONFIDENCE in the Government, will BEST ENSURE the beneficent ends of its institution.

RESOLVED by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, two thirds of both Houses concurring, that the following Articles be proposed to the Legislatures of the several States, as amendments to the Constitution of the United States, ALL, or any of which Articles, when RATIFIED by three fourths of the said Legislatures, to be VALID to ALL INTENTS and PURPOSES, as PART of the said Constitution; viz.

ARTICLES in addition to, and Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America, proposed by Congress, and ratified by the Legislatures of the several States, pursuant to the fifth Article of the original Constitution.

Amendment II

DECLARATORY clause;

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state,

RESTRICTIVE clause;

the Right of the People to Keep and Bear Arms, shall NOT be infringed.

“Shall NOT be infringed!”

Since: Apr 13

San Jose, CA.

#21 May 16, 2013
cpeter1313 wrote:
"Amendment II
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/bil...
This is the official transcript. BTW--it stopped being 1815 a helluva long time ago.
Literate doesn't equal treasonous, twit.
<quoted text>
"That no man should scruple, or hesitate a moment to use arms in defense of so valuable a blessing [as liberty], on which all the good and evil of life depends; is clearly my opinion; yet Arms...should be the last resort."

- George Washington, 1789 letter to George Mason.[The True George Washington, 10th Ed. By Paul Leicester Ford.]

"Also, the conditions and circumstances of the period require a finding that while the stated purpose of the right to arms was to secure a well-regulated militia, the right to self-defense was assumed by the Framers."

- Chief Justice John Marshall, U.S. Supreme Court.[As quoted in Nunn v. State, 1 Ga. 243, 251 (1846); State v. Dawson, 272 N.C. 535, 159 S.E.2d 1, 9 (1968).]

"The defence of one’s self, justly called the primary law of nature, is not, nor can it be abrogated by any regulation of municipal law. This principle of defence is not confined merely to the person; it extends to the liberty and the property of a man: it is not confined merely to his own person; it extends to the persons of all those, to whom he bears a peculiar relation -- of his wife, of his parent, of his child, of his master, of his servant: nay, it extends to the person of every one, who is in danger; perhaps, to the liberty of every one, whose liberty is unjustly and forcibly attacked. It becomes humanity as well as justice."

- James Wilson,'Of the Natural Rights of Individuals', 1790-1792 (Signed the Declaration of Independence and U.S. Constitution, Congressman, Delegate to the Constitutional Convention and U.S. Supreme Court Justice).

"From among the rights retained by our policy, we have selected those of self defence or bearing arms, of conscience, and of free inquiry, for two purposes; one, to shew the vast superiority of our policy, in being able to keep natural rights necessary for liberty and happiness, out of the hands of governments; the other, to shew that this ability is the effect of its principles, and beyond the reach of Mr. Adams’s system, or of any other, unable to reserve to the people, and to withhold from governments, a variety of rights."

- John Taylor, Revolutionary Soldier and U.S. Senator,(1792 – 94, 1803, 1822 – 24).[An Inquiry into the Principles and Policy of the Government of the United States: Section the Sixth; THE GOOD MORAL PRINCIPLES OF THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES,(1814).]

Would you like for me to continue? For I can completely shred your mindless 'theory' if you'd like.

“Shall NOT be infringed!”

Since: Apr 13

San Jose, CA.

#22 May 16, 2013
cpeter1313 wrote:
Ben franklin wanted the turkey to be the symbol of america. One opinion isn't a consensus, or even relevant. Nor was ingersoll considered to be a "founder."
<quoted text>
From the evidence presented. It certainly appears that it is >you< that is not relevant, CORRECT?

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