How do we protect kids in school?

Jan 8, 2013 Full story: Ruidoso News 6,103

During a newsroom discussion about guns about a decade ago, a woman piped up: "I don't understand what the big deal is.

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xando

United States

#1715 Mar 30, 2013
Uh.....we have been discussing gun violence in schools--throughout the entire thread.

Where have you been?
Tray wrote:
<quoted text> The topic is violence. You can't address violence only in one area. Schools are "self defense free zones" not just no gun zones. You can't carry a knife, sword, bow, crossbow, spear, large club or any other weapon on school grounds. In case you were not keeping up, guns are already illegal on school property and is ignored by killers so just what other law do you want? Oh wait, it's the banning of all guns everywhere. But that would be outside of the topic of only "school shootings".
Tray

Saltillo, MS

#1716 Mar 30, 2013
Wondering wrote:
Drivers pay the MAJORITY of the cost of highways/roads in the form of registrations on vehicles and taxes on gasoline. Hunters pay the MAJORITY of the cost of wildlife management in the form of fees and licenses.
Wouldn't it make sense that gun owners pay the MAJORITY of the costs associated with security associated with real or potential gun violence? I would like to see more armed security guards at schools, but feel that gun owners should pay the MAJORITY of increased costs with fees and taxes on guns and ammo.
And if you own a car but only drive 100 miles per year should you pay as much as someone who dives 100,000 miles per year? How about this, parents of children in school should have to pay ALL the cost for the school and security of those schools and the children. Those of us who don't have kids in school should not have to pay to school or protect children that are not ours. Hey it was their choice to have those kids why shouldn't they foot the bill to keep them safe.
Tray

Saltillo, MS

#1717 Mar 30, 2013
xando wrote:
Uh.....we have been discussing gun violence in schools--throughout the entire thread.
Where have you been?
<quoted text>
But your own posts addresses gun ownership OUTSIDE of school. You have not limited YOUR comments to ONLY inside schools. By the way that is already illegal so any other suggestions by you that ONLY pertains to INSIDE schools?
xando

United States

#1718 Mar 30, 2013
Tray wrote:
<quoted text> But your own posts addresses gun ownership OUTSIDE of school. You have not limited YOUR comments to ONLY inside schools. By the way that is already illegal so any other suggestions by you that ONLY pertains to INSIDE schools?
In the middle if a discussion about gun free zones and school shootings, you began a tirade irrelevant to that context.

Discussions take many turns, and I actually agree with many of your statements in the turn you took.
xando

United States

#1719 Mar 30, 2013
factologist wrote:
<quoted text>Use the "smoking cessation model": education, propaganda,free zones and tax.
Smoke free zones and taxation.......

http://m.prnewswire.com/news-releases/massach...
Tray

Saltillo, MS

#1720 Mar 30, 2013
xando wrote:
<quoted text>
In the middle if a discussion about gun free zones and school shootings, you began a tirade irrelevant to that context.
Discussions take many turns, and I actually agree with many of your statements in the turn you took.
I made the point that violence is human nature (it pertains also to school shootings). I pointed out that human nature can't be changed in one environment only. To address human violence in schools only is to over simplify the problem. OK we limit the forum to ONLY inside school SHOOTINGS, what is your suggestion? Please limit your ideas or suggestions to ONLY those things that can be implemented INSIDE schools.
Tray

Saltillo, MS

#1721 Mar 30, 2013
xando wrote:
<quoted text>
Smoke free zones and taxation.......
http://m.prnewswire.com/news-releases/massach...
Has what to do with "school shootings"?
xando

United States

#1722 Mar 30, 2013
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/01/p...

Myths.
Tray wrote:
<quoted text> The lowest is 85,000 and the highest is 2,500,000 times per year. Even the lowest is many times higher than murders with guns. A U.S. Department of Justice Survey released in 1994,“Guns in America,” estimated that 1.5 million defensive gun uses each year, and that's a government number. Look it up yourself.

“O'er the land of the free ? ”

Since: Jan 09

Don't Tread On Me

#1723 Mar 30, 2013
Wondering wrote:
Drivers pay the MAJORITY of the cost of highways/roads in the form of registrations on vehicles and taxes on gasoline. Hunters pay the MAJORITY of the cost of wildlife management in the form of fees and licenses.
Wouldn't it make sense that gun owners pay the MAJORITY of the costs associated with security associated with real or potential gun violence? I would like to see more armed security guards at schools, but feel that gun owners should pay the MAJORITY of increased costs with fees and taxes on guns and ammo.
It does not work that way.

Drivers pay for roads.
Hunters pay for wildlife management.
Killers not law abiding citizens are shooting at schools.

Your thinking is not logical.
Tray

Saltillo, MS

#1724 Mar 30, 2013
xando wrote:
http://www.motherjones.com/pol itics/2013/01/pro-gun-myths-fa ct-check
Myths.
<quoted text>
Out right lie. You quote a one sided anti gun link as opposed to a government site? You might as well quote PETA on the health benefits of eating wild game. 1 If they don't want my gun then why pass laws to make my gun illegal? They are not coming for my gun ,they want me to turn it in. 2 Guns don't kill people. Show just ONE case a gun was arrested and put on trial for murder. 3 You miss the deterrent value of guns. According to the Wright-Rossi survey, 34% of the felons responding from state prisons said that they had been “scared off, shot at, wounded or captured” by a victim armed with a firearm. The same percentage said they worried about being fired upon by armed victims, while 57% said they were more concerned with encountering an armed victim than encountering law enforcement officers. 4 Mass shootings stopped by a law against it = 0. 5 Refer to 3. 6 Defense of yourself or home is justified. Criminals are more likely to be shot on the property of a gun owner than a non gun owner also refer to 3. 7 Lie. Guns IN THE HANDS of women make them safer. Making women unarmed increases their chance of being attacked or killed. 8 Japan also has one of the highest suicide rate in the world. Suicide was the leading cause of death among men age 20–44. Males are two times more likely to cause their own deaths after a divorce than females. Nevertheless, suicide is still the leading cause of death for women age 15–34 in Japan. The Japanese suicide rate is especially high amongst industrialized nations.In 2007, Japan ranked first among G8 countries for female suicides and second, behind Russia, for male suicides. 9 Hmm then explain why gun sales are at a record high. Explain why NY police admit less than %10 of the gun owners there admit they own one. 10 Yet the crime rate is going down.
Tray

Saltillo, MS

#1725 Mar 30, 2013
xando

United States

#1727 Mar 30, 2013
And THEY are using facts, not opinions.
Tray wrote:
<quoted text> Out right lie. You quote a one sided anti gun link as opposed to a government site? You might as well quote PETA on the health benefits of eating wild game. 1 If they don't want my gun then why pass laws to make my gun illegal? They are not coming for my gun ,they want me to turn it in. 2 Guns don't kill people. Show just ONE case a gun was arrested and put on trial for murder. 3 You miss the deterrent value of guns. According to the Wright-Rossi survey, 34% of the felons responding from state prisons said that they had been “scared off, shot at, wounded or captured” by a victim armed with a firearm. The same percentage said they worried about being fired upon by armed victims, while 57% said they were more concerned with encountering an armed victim than encountering law enforcement officers. 4 Mass shootings stopped by a law against it = 0. 5 Refer to 3. 6 Defense of yourself or home is justified. Criminals are more likely to be shot on the property of a gun owner than a non gun owner also refer to 3. 7 Lie. Guns IN THE HANDS of women make them safer. Making women unarmed increases their chance of being attacked or killed. 8 Japan also has one of the highest suicide rate in the world. Suicide was the leading cause of death among men age 20–44. Males are two times more likely to cause their own deaths after a divorce than females. Nevertheless, suicide is still the leading cause of death for women age 15–34 in Japan. The Japanese suicide rate is especially high amongst industrialized nations.In 2007, Japan ranked first among G8 countries for female suicides and second, behind Russia, for male suicides. 9 Hmm then explain why gun sales are at a record high. Explain why NY police admit less than %10 of the gun owners there admit they own one. 10 Yet the crime rate is going down.
xando

United States

#1728 Mar 30, 2013
Tray wrote:
<quoted text> Has what to do with "school shootings"?
You have trouble with application and critical thinking, I see.
Marauder

Valdez, AK

#1729 Mar 30, 2013
xando wrote:
Yeah, I know, but I was not referring to the law; I was referring to the zone. If you'd like, I could help you out by editing all your posts. They're usually riddled with errors--and they're always the same ones C. Nickels makes.
As you said, morals have changed, but that's not the point. You idiots make the statement that we need to get rid of gun free zones, and when it's pointed out that is a stupid statement, you want to wiggle out of your stupidity. Sorry. You can't. You're just stupid. Nothing seems to help that.
Once again..........no one is trying to take your guns. More people in the US purchase, own, and carry guns than ever in our history, you pathetic, paranoid thing.
<quoted text>
"Yeah, I know, but I was not referring to the law; I was referring to the zone."

No kidding...so was I...once again since you failed to answer the first time;

What were the State laws at the time...how many had open carry or concealed carry...how many schools could or did authorize carry inside the school...?...I don't know of any schools that authorized carry in the school...that doesn't mean there weren't some...but still makes the rest "gun free zones"...even if not codified in federal law.

"As you said, morals have changed, but that's not the point."

Really...you agree...and then say "that's not the point"...BS!!! That's a MAJOR part of the POINT.

"If you'd like, I could help you out by editing all your posts."

I'm sure you could, just like anyones else can, but it would be to help you out...not me.
xando

United States

#1730 Mar 30, 2013
Tray wrote:
http://www.justfacts.com/gunco ntrol.asp
Oh this is rich.

You took your DGU numbers from a 1993 survey of 4,977 households where 5% of respondents...."said " there were "almost certain" they would have been killed had they not used a gun to protect themselves.

HAHAHAk

You're comparing gov stats of murders to the DGU extrapolated numbers of a wildly subjective survey.

Lord.
xando

United States

#1731 Mar 30, 2013
Let me answer your question then.

The more you "talk," the more you argue against yourself.

If people have more gun rights than ever (and even according to you, they do), why aren't these armed people stopping school shootings?

It's all relative. According to you people who are confused about how to argue your point, gun free zones are responsible for school shootings, although there were plenty before gun free zones; but no, wait, declining morals accuount for school shootings. Never mind that there were just as many or more at a time when morals supposedly were higher and people (according to you) didn't carry guns.

You dumbass.
Marauder wrote:
<quoted text>
"Yeah, I know, but I was not referring to the law; I was referring to the zone."
No kidding...so was I...once again since you failed to answer the first time;
What were the State laws at the time...how many had open carry or concealed carry...how many schools could or did authorize carry inside the school...?...I don't know of any schools that authorized carry in the school...that doesn't mean there weren't some...but still makes the rest "gun free zones"...even if not codified in federal law.
"As you said, morals have changed, but that's not the point."
Really...you agree...and then say "that's not the point"...BS!!! That's a MAJOR part of the POINT.
"If you'd like, I could help you out by editing all your posts."
I'm sure you could, just like anyones else can, but it would be to help you out...not me.
Marauder

Fairbanks, AK

#1738 Mar 30, 2013
xando wrote:
Let me answer your question then.
The more you "talk," the more you argue against yourself.
If people have more gun rights than ever (and even according to you, they do), why aren't these armed people stopping school shootings?
It's all relative. According to you people who are confused about how to argue your point, gun free zones are responsible for school shootings, although there were plenty before gun free zones; but no, wait, declining morals accuount for school shootings. Never mind that there were just as many or more at a time when morals supposedly were higher and people (according to you) didn't carry guns.
You dumbass.
<quoted text>
"Let me answer your question then."

So why didn't you instead of all this deflection...?
Tray

Saltillo, MS

#1739 Mar 30, 2013
xando wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh this is rich.
You took your DGU numbers from a 1993 survey of 4,977 households where 5% of respondents...."said " there were "almost certain" they would have been killed had they not used a gun to protect themselves.
HAHAHAk
You're comparing gov stats of murders to the DGU extrapolated numbers of a wildly subjective survey.
Lord.
That was simply ONE of the sources out of many INDEPENDENT others. Yours on the other hand is proudly twisting fact.
Tray

Saltillo, MS

#1741 Mar 30, 2013
xando wrote:
And THEY are using facts, not opinions.
<quoted text>
Example #2 Your site calls the graph MURDER rate while the graph says GUN DEATHS, not the same thing, many GUN DEATHS are justified.#3 Among Texans convicted of serious crimes, those with concealed-handgun licenses were sentenced for threatening someone with a firearm 4.8 times more than those without. Those without a CHL can't threaten with one if they don't have one. Deliberate twisting of facts. In states with Stand Your Ground and other laws making it easier to shoot in self-defense, those policies have been linked to a 7 to 10% increase in homicides. Yes, more dead criminals is called JUSTIFIED homicide not murder or dead unarmed victim.#5 In states with Stand Your Ground and other laws making it easier to shoot in self-defense, those policies have been linked to a 7 to 10% increase in homicides. Yet Japan has a much much higher suicide rate and very few guns. Care to explain how that can be according to your source?#6 In one survey, nearly 1% of Americans reported using guns to defend themselves or their property. However, a closer look at their claims found that more than 50% involved using guns in an aggressive manner, such as escalating an argument. Notice these were not called murder therefore must be JUSTIFIED. Yes if you are being attacked on your own property you use of a gun in self defense would be called AGGRESSIVE, not using it and being a victim of assault on your own property would be called PASSIVE or SHEEP. Being on someones property and a gun pointed at you for being involved in an argument makes you a trespasser, not leaving the other persons property makes you a dead trespasser and idiot.
Tray

Saltillo, MS

#1742 Mar 30, 2013
Myth #7: Guns make women safer.
Fact-check: In 2010, nearly 6 times more women were shot by husbands, boyfriends, and ex-partners than murdered by male strangers.
• A woman's chances of being killed by her abuser increase more than 7 times if he has access to a gun. However a that is a lie. Guns make women safer IF the woman is the owner of the gun and not the disarmed victim. Yet another twisting of facts. Myth #9 Oh to hell with it I think I've made my point very well that your site is a complete lie.

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