It's the Guns, Stupid

It's the Guns, Stupid

There are 103324 comments on the Truthdig story from Apr 20, 2007, titled It's the Guns, Stupid. In it, Truthdig reports that:

“And that's the end of the issue”

Why do we have the same futile argument every time there is a mass killing? Advocates of gun control try to open a discussion about whether more reasonable weapons statutes might reduce the number of violent ... via Truthdig

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Truthdig.

Since: Oct 11

Location hidden

#110094 Aug 13, 2013
FormerParatrooper wrote:
Deleted from post to meet 4000 character limit.
What does this mean? Were you unable to see my entire post? I can see it in its entirety.
FormerParatrooper wrote:
We have background checks. The system is not working. Do you propose expanding a system that is broken?
No, I propose making the necessary revisions, making the law a mandatory requirement to purchases, and enforcing them by imposing hefty penalties for sellers who don't practice the law.
FormerParatrooper wrote:
The idea that gun registration leads to confiscation has historical data to support the idea. Take also the statements made by those who are in Office who have said they support confiscation and you could understand that promises made today ate not trusted.
The only "historical" support that you have for that statement is the collection of firearms campaign that took place across the pond (so to speak) in the UK which, just so you know, didn't rely on any gun ownership lists...they just went around to peoples' homes and collected their guns which the people handed over willingly.
FormerParatrooper wrote:
Yes, the firearm industry provides significant economic activity. Has that stopped any State from enacting laws that force manufactures to relocate and States losing the revenue?
No, so what's your point? That is, why question what isn't a part of/has no bearing on the discussion?
FormerParatrooper wrote:
Americans by nature distrust government, the corruption, false promises and the fact our Country was born from a revolt due to a government is part of the DNA and are factors you must consider when pondering why people have certain beliefs about registration.
It is not by "nature" that any people distrust their governments, it is a conditioned response based upon a history of disappointment derived from having experienced the sort of corruption, perversion, deception, duplicity, and abuse of power we've seen exhibited by our presidential cadre, none of which we've seen exhibited by our current president.

However, you cannot fault all government or all governmental provisions or policies based on the actions or behaviors of those that have come before them/the experiences of the past as to do so is akin to unfairly discriminating against someone before they've given any cause for such bias.
FormerParatrooper wrote:
I have yet seen a compelling argument that shows the benefit of such a registration, nor to expand the background check system we currently have. Maybe you could present an argument that would satisfy common sense, not step on rights of the innocent and would not be abused by government.
What about the number of murders that resulted from firearms falling into the hands of the mentally unbalanced? Or the criminally inclined?

If background checks were enforced we'd be more readily capable of keeping firearms from falling into the wrong hands/into the hands of those who aren't interested in, or capable of, being upstanding gun owners.

Further, if registration were enforced, we'd be able to trace the trail of the gun's ownership back to its source to then be able to determine how it came to be in the hands of the miscreant/offender, be it through legal transfer of ownership or theft, not to mention the ability of enforced registration to dissuade the criminally minded from exposing themselves just to get their hands on a weapon.

So there are a number of not only "compelling", but especially reasonable, arguments" FOR gun registration and background checks.
truth

Westminster, Australia

#110095 Aug 13, 2013
digital gun..is something new which people on simple way with small cheep even from rubbish tip can connect then image bum..finish..

God created you on image..as well you can created anything too..what ever created can be destroy..so what..if someone smart diploma wrote every day..someone need be stupid..because they looks nice..but in reality not..they fight for organizations where they serve to be popular rich or what..
so what..why god don't liked my mind..yes it is..

Do you need nice diploma from people who say..who can who can't..its two deference way of nice character?

one with pride other not..

by
truth

Westminster, Australia

#110096 Aug 13, 2013
law is just power which others missuses toward many..its invisible gun in hand of very powerful and rich organization..its not necessary that law is righteousness law..no..

someone have more in finger then people with diploma in head..

today you can find many things on rubbish tip..so what..
truth

Westminster, Australia

#110097 Aug 13, 2013
one seed can be much more worse then any gun..as genetic destruction..

one formula within pharmaceutical industry too..yee they are all nice with nice diploma nice speech..but in mind is money..power prestige and many things much more worse then any gun..is that gun..yes..perfect gun..
truth

Westminster, Australia

#110099 Aug 13, 2013
my mind is not your..no
i am as i am as always be..never change..no

you can find future gun..not yet in any factory exist
as well you can find any direction on map where have to be in future..

mind which others don't have..

people on power liked used or destroy many good people with evil invisible force as well many documents which they wrote as well set up against many persons and family and so on..

they don't liked that someone know future plain which exist..

words is sharp as perfect gun..yep..sharp mind too..
deceiver try used heart and goodness of people..for themself and make justification too..

no

they are gun too..as deceiver..

is that nice..no
TGO

United States

#110100 Aug 13, 2013
Only free men should be allowed to have guns.

Disgusting slaves should not.

They should bow and grovel to any unlike them.

Personally I would prefer that Australians grovel to someone else - I am picky about who slobbers on my boots, and limeys with their rotten teeth may infect my boots with their slave slobber bacteria.

Begone filthy Aussie slaves, to your masters.

Away slaves! Free men abhor you.
Tm Clmns

Victoria, Canada

#110101 Aug 13, 2013
Overseer58 wrote:
Obama always ignores the Constitution when it interferes with his Socialist agenda. Why should gun control be any different?
Dod you know what Socialist actually means..???

keep on spouting propaganda meat puppet...
truth

Westminster, Australia

#110102 Aug 13, 2013
even tiny flower can be as transmitter toward you..as symbol for invisible gun..yep

i find dark blue buts small as you see onion roots..see on i on=see words..usually grow up on nice weather..yep even on top of mountains between rocks where extremely small amount soil need invisible..jao perfect signal..many flower are alive transmitter
as well code for many things..its look funny..as well not sense..o really..
truth

Westminster, Australia

#110103 Aug 13, 2013
in ancient time as well long history they used sleepy poison from many roots flowers and tree and so on..yee

now..you will say no sense..did you..history is full story about that..

remember even mind without any sense have sense..yee

whats deference if someone don't liked understood or
can't understood..

Many scientist is been ijuju as well killed..
Is that have some sense?..o What a shame!
truth

Westminster, Australia

#110104 Aug 13, 2013
depend what you mean..under socialist..o well we have many things on this planet..people can used..why not..future even today many rich organization don't liked slave labors or socialist..they going used computers..yee..
but remember if you know about future..its us-full

can very easy used everything..you need have mind without any sense ..
'madness of god is bigger then any intellect'..yep..

read word 'used'
US ed ad ed 'id' od ud
crazy and lazy mind..
n
by
truth

Westminster, Australia

#110105 Aug 13, 2013
now
another gun
about what

Do you liked letter f and z?
no bigger letter dear childreen..mum going tell you everything about rich worthy but within second fall.
nicely geometric shape letter fz..its not look like that but as bigger picture as geometric its its under right side as tiny as needle..zoom..then go down..yep very modern very expensive..but fall..
ja pracka..
pracka
proverb3;14=n
http://biblehub.com/proverbs/3-14.htm
my son don't forget what mother say
kao iglene ushi and os
byyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

don't cry when i died

don't trust any corupt evil develish satanic corupt institution..
law not exist there
they love themself
they are full of pride
they are full of lust

with them there righteos people don't have nothing no..
they will used anything or anyone on evil set up way as they always used then reject..

way of them is not my way as never been..no don't need respect them or trust them..i just wrote because of ordinary people where they abuse assault used spit accuse prosecuted and judged on evil way..
don't sit with them
don't eat with them
don't pray with them
finish..

byyyyyyyyyyy
truth

Westminster, Australia

#110106 Aug 13, 2013
now
i study chine eyes on my way
yep
secrets of them
and my poems
yep
river po
ops

u milice duge trepavice
oj milice
da ti ljubim bijelo lice
each trepavica is as direction of invisible power find what..
5 visible and 5not visible mountains
with my dark blue tiny beautiful zvoncic flower..
kamen is mean znamen..ka.man..z.name.n

correct
necete vi meni zapovidat sto cu ja snivat..

odo doli sad da vidim ispod onog centra

its secret code
evil people with evil mind

a tako
is that nise
no
then drpensi and krkenzi from others is not good no

police and molice is two deference things..
police and ladice and kvakice..3 things

Are you for sure crazy don't have sense because they don't liked that someone don't know..

you try destroy my family don't you..yes you are..
FormerParatroope r

Charleston, SC

#110107 Aug 14, 2013
just an allusion wrote:
<quoted text>
What does this mean? Were you unable to see my entire post? I can see it in its entirety.
I could see your entire post. Topix has a 4000 character limit for posts, so to answer you post I needed to delete portions.

The current background check system enforces the GCA of 1968. The problem is not a lack of penalties, but selective and little enforcement of the laws. Even the attempted purchase of a firearm by a excluded person is a punishable crime, just not enforced.

Registration was done in Canada, Russia,China,Germany and other places. The lists, along with state agents were used to selectively confiscate firearms. Can it happen in the US? Probably not, there is a concern such lists could be used to confiscate what is legally owned today if a law or prohibition is passed tomorrow. Confiscated things are never paid for by government, just taken.

You post about the economic activity of the firearms industry seemed to suggest a safeguard against banning firearms. I argue some States have list portions of the economic activity due to laws they have passed.

You can argue whether it is a conditioned response or nature that government is distrusted. You cannot claim the current cadre has done nothing to keep this alive. He has exhibited a displeasure with the constraints the Constitution places on Government. And he seems to enjoy dividing people along lines of social, economic, and other status.

All you propose as a compelling argument to keep firearms from the mentally unbalanced and criminally inclined will not do so. Nothing short of every firearm in the world being collected and destroyed will do so. Instead we must minimize the ability of such people to get firearms. The lack of enforcement of these laws create the climate that enables excluded people to get firearms.
Besara

Des Moines, IA

#110108 Aug 14, 2013
just an allusion wrote:
<quoted text>
What does this mean? Were you unable to see my entire post? I can see it in its entirety.
<quoted text>
No, I propose making the necessary revisions, making the law a mandatory requirement to purchases, and enforcing them by imposing hefty penalties for sellers who don't practice the law.
<quoted text>
The only "historical" support that you have for that statement is the collection of firearms campaign that took place across the pond (so to speak) in the UK which, just so you know, didn't rely on any gun ownership lists...they just went around to peoples' homes and collected their guns which the people handed over willingly.
<quoted text>
No, so what's your point? That is, why question what isn't a part of/has no bearing on the discussion?
<quoted text>
It is not by "nature" that any people distrust their governments, it is a conditioned response based upon a history of disappointment derived from having experienced the sort of corruption, perversion, deception, duplicity, and abuse of power we've seen exhibited by our presidential cadre, none of which we've seen exhibited by our current president.
However, you cannot fault all government or all governmental provisions or policies based on the actions or behaviors of those that have come before them/the experiences of the past as to do so is akin to unfairly discriminating against someone before they've given any cause for such bias.
<quoted text>
What about the number of murders that resulted from firearms falling into the hands of the mentally unbalanced? Or the criminally inclined?
If background checks were enforced we'd be more readily capable of keeping firearms from falling into the wrong hands/into the hands of those who aren't interested in, or capable of, being upstanding gun owners.
Further, if registration were enforced, we'd be able to trace the trail of the gun's ownership back to its source to then be able to determine how it came to be in the hands of the miscreant/offender, be it through legal transfer of ownership or theft, not to mention the ability of enforced registration to dissuade the criminally minded from exposing themselves just to get their hands on a weapon.
So there are a number of not only "compelling", but especially reasonable, arguments" FOR gun registration and background checks.
And yet you can't come up with one.
spocko

Oakland, CA

#110109 Aug 14, 2013
FormerParatrooper wrote:
<quoted text>
I could see your entire post. Topix has a 4000 character limit for posts, so to answer you post I needed to delete portions.
The current background check system enforces the GCA of 1968. The problem is not a lack of penalties, but selective and little enforcement of the laws. Even the attempted purchase of a firearm by a excluded person is a punishable crime, just not enforced.
Registration was done in Canada, Russia,China,Germany and other places. The lists, along with state agents were used to selectively confiscate firearms. Can it happen in the US? Probably not, there is a concern such lists could be used to confiscate what is legally owned today if a law or prohibition is passed tomorrow. Confiscated things are never paid for by government, just taken.
You post about the economic activity of the firearms industry seemed to suggest a safeguard against banning firearms. I argue some States have list portions of the economic activity due to laws they have passed.
You can argue whether it is a conditioned response or nature that government is distrusted. You cannot claim the current cadre has done nothing to keep this alive. He has exhibited a displeasure with the constraints the Constitution places on Government. And he seems to enjoy dividing people along lines of social, economic, and other status.
All you propose as a compelling argument to keep firearms from the mentally unbalanced and criminally inclined will not do so. Nothing short of every firearm in the world being collected and destroyed will do so. Instead we must minimize the ability of such people to get firearms. The lack of enforcement of these laws create the climate that enables excluded people to get firearms.
You are, of course, entitled to your opinion no matter how misguided ...
FormerParatroope r

Charleston, SC

#110110 Aug 14, 2013
spocko wrote:
<quoted text>
You are, of course, entitled to your opinion no matter how misguided ...
Where exactly am I misguided? Let's get the substance here.
FormerParatroope r

Charleston, SC

#110114 Aug 14, 2013
StudMuffin wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, you don't need to expend much verbiage on the matter, inasmuch as the 1968 GCA is not only blatantly UnConstitutional, but history has shown that were it even to be considered Constitutional, it has not worked, not once, not a single time in preventing a crime of violence.
Neither registration nor licensing of firearms has ever been shown to have either stopped a crime, or even to have solved a single one.
So, if a law is KNOWN to NOT work, then why even have it?
I'll tell why: To act as an affront to the citizen's rights.
Until we return the mentaly ill to institutions and repeat violent offenders to prisons, we have to make it harder for them. Imho of course
truth

Westminster, Australia

#110115 Aug 15, 2013
You must be Mr or Mrs Laban son or daughter..is that nice..no
sorry
i am not destroyer no..
until you realize every Lab.oratory working on this planet..
trillions production..everybody need to be mentally sick or killed..
elementary as thunder..
each elements are full of what..Chemistry=ch.e.momanic=c ancer disease..

every words read and be careful..
truth

Westminster, Australia

#110116 Aug 15, 2013
see thunder
then you are from gotte
are you for sure o my jujure..
not me
t hun der=red..th=fun n.uff

see
5 pyramide=5 mountains visible
5 not visible
are you
as you see
nejoseesjeno
can be syjeno neyo

kad pocme da leti
onda me se sjeti
where

6 universe stay parallel as one

now you are stupid give anyone secret
no
Flash26

Alexandria, VA

#110117 Aug 15, 2013
amazed wrote:
Some idiotic nra member said it wouldnt have happened if all the students had guns. Try tell me that aint brainless.
Some idiotic administration official said "and what does it matter now" about four dead americans. You know who teh idiotic person was but I do not know who your idiotic NRA person was. It is easy to substantiate your argument with baseless references I guess your idiotic nra could have been a gun control advocate who used to be a member of teh nra or had a NRA baseball cap. Names and dates please otherwise you are as idiotic as your reference.

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