It's the Guns, Stupid

It's the Guns, Stupid

There are 103311 comments on the Truthdig story from Apr 20, 2007, titled It's the Guns, Stupid. In it, Truthdig reports that:

“And that's the end of the issue”

Why do we have the same futile argument every time there is a mass killing? Advocates of gun control try to open a discussion about whether more reasonable weapons statutes might reduce the number of violent ... via Truthdig

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Truthdig.

Just the facts

Spokane, WA

#107502 May 15, 2013
GoGoBar wrote:
<quoted text>
None that saved a life obviosly/
12996 Murders
225 Self defence Homicides by firearm
350,000 firearm violent crimes.
All per year.
The highest imprisonment rate in the known world.
But it is not the violent guns?
HAHAHAHAHA
First of all you talk about all the crime and all the inmates, with us having the highest in the world . but did you know only 1/10th of 1% are criminals that used a gun. learn where your info comes from before you start regurgitating this crap, Thailand has the highest homosexual rape problem with under age boys in the world. Maybe if they had guns you bastards wouldn't even think about that sick stuff. Get a life Hell get a gun and save one. Because Americans don't shoot people because they stole a car, we shoot because we have to. Oh yah 37% of our prison population are imagrants who comited violant crimes.
FormerParatroope r

United States

#107503 May 15, 2013
GoGoBar wrote:
<quoted text>
The NRA banned figures for firearm violence to be collected with federal funds if those figures tended to show that gun control would be a sensible thing.
But coronial and crime reports are not banned. Firearm usage in violent crime is repoted in the UCR under AGGREVATED .violent crime.
You somewhat answered part of what I asked.
spocko

Oakland, CA

#107504 May 15, 2013
Armed Veteran wrote:
<quoted text>
The NRA does have the power to ban ANYTHING on a legislative level. They are a PRIVATE organization, moron.
Duh! Obviously that is not what he said, the NRA has the lobbying power to persuade congress to implement any damn law they want (or don't want)! As we have seen, so blatantly, with the last back ground check fiasco!

“Si vis pacem, para bellum !!”

Since: Dec 07

Southeast Virginia

#107505 May 15, 2013
spocko wrote:
<quoted text>
Duh! Obviously that is not what he said, the NRA has the lobbying power to persuade congress to implement any damn law they want (or don't want)! As we have seen, so blatantly, with the last back ground check fiasco!
That is NOT what he said. Here is a cut-n-paste of exactly what he said:
"The NRA banned figures for firearm violence to be collected with federal funds if those figures tended to show that gun control would be a sensible thing."

So how does the NRA ban stats from being collected by federal agencies? Only 3 possibilities here. 1) he is full of shit; 2) it's a lie; or 3) see numbers 1 & 2.
They

United States

#107506 May 15, 2013
Armed Veteran wrote:
<quoted text>
That is NOT what he said. Here is a cut-n-paste of exactly what he said:
"The NRA banned figures for firearm violence to be collected with federal funds if those figures tended to show that gun control would be a sensible thing."
So how does the NRA ban stats from being collected by federal agencies? Only 3 possibilities here. 1) he is full of shit; 2) it's a lie; or 3) see numbers 1 & 2.
own a bunch of losers in Congress, duh.

Banned

“This town is nuts...”

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#107507 May 15, 2013
spocko wrote:
<quoted text>Guns are almost always used as an offensive weapon and very rarely for defense!
The NRA has argued consistently that guns are vital for home defense. We keep hearing from the NRA and their ilk, the gunloons, about how a gun defends your home. Wayne LaPierre, the group’s executive liar in chief and an increasingly unhinged public face, has been out talking about how everyone needs guns to be prepared for a coming time of financial crisis and natural disaster – huh what? But, what about the broader implications, and added risks, of keeping guns in the house? It makes a domestic conflict far more likely to escalate and result in a murder (just ask Oscar Pistorius killing his girlfriend in a domestic dispute). Domestic violence and assaults involving a firearm are 23 times more likely to result in death than those involving other weapons or bodily force. When it comes to domestic disputes you are actually a lot less safe if there is a gun in the home. Without a gun in the house, many of these fatal assaults would have merely resulted in injuries or would not have escalated at all.
You must not be familiar with what took place in New Orleans in the aftermath of Katrina. You think that there will always be someone around who's job it is to protect you and your property. Those of you who don't see any need for civilians to own firearms for protection are just a hurricane or earthquake away from finding out exactly how misguided you are to the ways of society. What would happen to you and the people who look to you for protection if the power went out for a week in your city?

Banned

“This town is nuts...”

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#107508 May 15, 2013
If any of you truly cared about the issue of violent crime in this country then you would be talking about solutions that are within the realm of reality instead of wasting your time arguing against the Constitution with the hope of somehow removing the more than 300 million privately owned firearms in the US today.
See

Huntsville, AL

#107509 May 15, 2013
Banned wrote:
<quoted text>
You must not be familiar with what took place in New Orleans in the aftermath of Katrina. You think that there will always be someone around who's job it is to protect you and your property. Those of you who don't see any need for civilians to own firearms for protection are just a hurricane or earthquake away from finding out exactly how misguided you are to the ways of society. What would happen to you and the people who look to you for protection if the power went out for a week in your city?
paranoid.

What does this have to do with background checks or military style weapons?

GunShow1

“Shall NOT be infringed!”

Since: Apr 13

San Jose, CA.

#107510 May 15, 2013
See wrote:
<quoted text>
paranoid.
What does this have to do with background checks or military style weapons?
OK slick. Then let's perform a "background check" on the government. THEY CANNOT PASS ONE. For they are guilty of MULTIPLE FELONIES, both domestically and internationally.

When the government submits to a "background check", then so will we. Until that time:

"The Right of the People to Keep and Bear Arms shall NOT be infringed".

"The rule of international law for which I am contending is thus stated by Mr Wheaton:

"Of the absolute international rights of States, one the most essential and important, and that which lies at the foundation of all the rest, is the right of self-preservation. It is not only a right with respect to other States, but a duty with respect to its own members, and the most solemn and important which the State owes to them. This right necessarily involves all other incidental rights which are essential as means to give effect to the principal end."

- Mr. V.E. Howard, Representative from Texas, Jan. 6, 1853.[APPENDIX TO THE CONGRESSIONAL GLOBE, FOR THE SECOND SESSION, THIRTY-SECOND CONGRESS: CONTAINING SPEECHES, IMPORTANT STATE PAPERS, LAWS, ETC. BY JOHN C. RIVES. NEW SERIES VOL. XXVII. CITY OF WASHINGTON: PRINTED AT THE OFFICE OF JOHN C. RIVES. 1853. Pg. 81.]

Take a hike, traitor-troll.

Banned

“This town is nuts...”

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#107511 May 15, 2013
See wrote:
<quoted text>paranoid.

What does this have to do with background checks or military style weapons?
First of all, no one can legally buy a firearm in this country without a Federal background check. The only way to buy a gun without a Federal background check is from a private individual and if the registration of that weapon isn't transferred to the new owner then it isn't a legal transaction. We already have laws in place that require background checks so why do you want another one? Again, you can not legally buy a firearm in this country without a Federal background check.
As far as "military type firearms" are concerned, average citizens do not own actual military type weapons because the difference is that military weapons are full auto and civilian models are semi-auto. The only thing they have in common is their appearance and civilian models that are semi-auto are actually no different than your average semi-auto deer rifle. I own several AR-15 rifles and I enjoy shooting them and hunting with them. It's okay with me if you choose not to own one but I like mine and mine aren't hurting you or anyone else.
FormerParatroope r

Portage, MI

#107512 May 15, 2013
See wrote:
<quoted text>
paranoid.
What does this have to do with background checks or military style weapons?
Background checks exist.

What is the fetish of banning an object because if its style?

Banned

“This town is nuts...”

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#107513 May 15, 2013
Here's the reality of the situation... every time some nut job flips out and shoots a bunch of people in this country it brings gun control to the forefront because it appears that the momentum and popular opinion is in favor of passing new restrictions on firearms. Not only does such legislation fail but gun sales go through the roof along with concealed carry permits being issued and NRA memberships. When will you people realize that you're attempts to step on the Constitutional Rights of law biding citizens are unacceptable and by definition you're actions can be described as insane. Put your time, effort, and resources towards something you can actually accomplish... Like putting an end to school shootings. Many facilities in this country have security measures in place that make it all but impossible to enter with a concealed weapon. Federal Buildings have this type of security. Why shouldn't our children be protected in such a way? How many more school shootings have to happen before we as Americans decide to do something about it? You're not going to get our guns so do something that will actually make a difference.
sillystring

United States

#107514 May 15, 2013
GoGoBar wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL> Like Terxas, Arizona, Florida.
Now are your Carry Gun guys in which group?
12996 Total Murders
225 Justifiable Homicide with Firearm?
LOL They must be in the 225. 50 to one! Stretch that out over your BS.
The state with the strickest gun control is california.
The state that has had the most mass killings, is california.
Go figure.
spocko

Oakland, CA

#107515 May 15, 2013
Armed Veteran wrote:
<quoted text>
That is NOT what he said. Here is a cut-n-paste of exactly what he said:
"The NRA banned figures for firearm violence to be collected with federal funds if those figures tended to show that gun control would be a sensible thing."
So how does the NRA ban stats from being collected by federal agencies? Only 3 possibilities here. 1) he is full of shit; 2) it's a lie; or 3) see numbers 1 & 2.
Okay moron I'm gonna talk real slow so even a friggen retard like you can follow a simple sentence, you ready?:
The Firearms Owners Protection Act of 1968, 1986 and again in 1993 pushed true Congress by the NRA, prohibits a National or any other gun registry. And that, you ignorant slut, is how the NRA controls any and all action on gun control, reasonable or otherwise, that is being considered by the US Congress!! The currently pending legislation, again, explicitly prohibits the creation of a national gun registry – courtesy of the NRA!!

GunShow1

“Shall NOT be infringed!”

Since: Apr 13

San Jose, CA.

#107516 May 15, 2013
spocko wrote:
<quoted text>
Okay!
"The institutions of law, medicine, and divinity, are in a most flourishing condition, and we count more than half a hundred colleges, with an immense number of minor schools. It is a country full of inventive power, which puts every particle of mind into action. It is also remarkable for enterprise, and the people seize upon all the improvements of other nations. It has a mass of population, which have, more than any other people, sound minds in sound bodies, arising more from its moral and political character, than from any other causes. It is a country that has no national religion, but, within her borders every one worships God in his own way, if he do not disturb his neighbour; a country without grades in society fixed by law, and where and primogeniture and entailment do not exist. It is a country where every one has a right to bear arms for protection and defence, and which could muster two millions of soldiers, if they were necessary, for self-defence. It is a country increasing in population, arts, sciences, letters, and wealth, with the comforts and enjoyments of social life, faster than any other in the world. In short, it is a country that "knows her rights, and knowing, dares maintain" them.

"Should we be content to take this heritage of ours, without being mindful what it cost our ancestors to present it to us, as it is? Or should we examine the subject most minutely, as we have time or leisure?

"Ours is the first nation in the annals of history, that became masters of themselves at once. Freedom has, in
general, been gained slowed, and lost rapidly."

- John Howard Hinton,[THE HISTORY AND TOPOGRAPHY OF THE UNITED STATES OF NORTH AMERICA, FROM THE EARLIEST PERIOD TO THE PRESENT TIME. COMPRISING POLITICAL AND BIOGRAPHICAL HISTORY; GEOGRAPHY, GEOLOGY, MINERALOGY, ZOOLOGY, AND BOTANY; AGRICULTURE MANUFACTURES, AND COMMERCE; LAWS, MANNERS, CUSTOMS, AND RELIGION; WITH A TOPOGRAPHICAL DESCRIPTION OF THE CITIES, TOWNS, SEA-PORTS, PUBLIC EDIFICES, CANALS, &c. &c EDITED BY JOHN HOWARD HINTON, A.M. ASSISTED BY SEVERAL LITERARY GENTLEMEN IN ENGLAND AND AMERICA. A NEW AND IMPROVED EDITION, WITH ADDITIONS AND CORRECTIONS, BY SAMUEL L. KNAPP. "Much I avail my friends by all the zeal I show the dead" ILLUSTRATED WITH NUMEROUS ENGRAVINGS. VOL I. BOSTON: PRINTED AND PUBLISHED BY SAMUEL WALKER... 1834]
sillystring

United States

#107517 May 15, 2013
spocko wrote:
<quoted text>
Okay moron I'm gonna talk real slow so even a friggen retard like you can follow a simple sentence, you ready?:
The Firearms Owners Protection Act of 1968, 1986 and again in 1993 pushed true Congress by the NRA, prohibits a National or any other gun registry. And that, you ignorant slut, is how the NRA controls any and all action on gun control, reasonable or otherwise, that is being considered by the US Congress!! The currently pending legislation, again, explicitly prohibits the creation of a national gun registry – courtesy of the NRA!!
There is too a national gun registry, how do you think they trace ballistics and guns in forensics? If you have a gun, take it to the sheriffs department, let them run the numbers, and see if your name comes up? If it's legal, then yes, your name will come up. If it's an illegal gun then anybodys guess whose name will come up. You dont seem to be able to grasp, so I will go real slow so a retard like you can follow, ready?.........Here goes, It's the drug dealers and illegal gun dealers, criminals, whom are doing the killings. They don't register their guns, buy stolen guns, are steal their own. Perhaps, with a little help, you can understand that something needs to be done with that group of ppl, not your average citizen. You need to leave california, it's warped your brain.
The style

Huntsville, AL

#107518 May 15, 2013
FormerParatrooper wrote:
<quoted text>
Background checks exist.
What is the fetish of banning an object because if its style?
is the capability - not cosmetic.

But what purpose besides threat and intimidation is there for it outside of the context of war?
FormerParatroope r

United States

#107519 May 15, 2013
The style wrote:
<quoted text>
is the capability - not cosmetic.
But what purpose besides threat and intimidation is there for it outside of the context of war?
Capability? They fire semi automatically. Military weapons are select fire, semi, burst or auto.
Some military style weapons can fit a bayonet, my antique black powder musket has a bayonet as well.

Military style weapons, as I am sure you are refering to the AR and AK variants, are no more lethal than any other firearm and have the exact same uses as " approved" styled weapons.

In combat, several weapons are used from handguns, bolt action rifles, and select fire weapons. In your context, every firearm devised by man is a military style weapon. As most firearms were designed for combat.

As someone who has used several firearms, professionaly and recreationaly, I do feel I have a grasp of firearms. And without any prejudice toward you personally, may I suggest instead of listening to either side of the debate, go to a range. Have a range master show you how the firearms in question operate, and if you are comfortable, fire them. Fire both a military style firearm, and another semiautomatic firearm of the same or comparable caliber. I would be interested of your perceptions afterwards and it compares to others I have trained.

GunShow1

“Shall NOT be infringed!”

Since: Apr 13

San Jose, CA.

#107520 May 15, 2013
The style wrote:
<quoted text>
is the capability - not cosmetic.
But what purpose besides threat and intimidation is there for it outside of the context of war?
MEANINGLESS:

"The Right of the People to Keep and Bear Arms shall NOT be infringed".
Another

Huntsville, AL

#107521 May 15, 2013
sillystring wrote:
<quoted text>The state with the strickest gun control is california.
The state that has had the most mass killings, is california.
Go figure.
logically challenged goober. If you spend too much time shooting you are likely to breath too much lead dust.

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