It's the Guns, Stupid

It's the Guns, Stupid

There are 103299 comments on the Truthdig story from Apr 20, 2007, titled It's the Guns, Stupid. In it, Truthdig reports that:

“And that's the end of the issue”

Why do we have the same futile argument every time there is a mass killing? Advocates of gun control try to open a discussion about whether more reasonable weapons statutes might reduce the number of violent ... via Truthdig

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Truthdig.

Teaman

Abingdon, VA

#107286 May 10, 2013
wacosaki wrote:
I think i need a vulcan cannon and some nukes just for hunting purposes
Or just purchase a small caliber rifle that just happens to look like a military one.

GunShow1

“Shall NOT be infringed!”

Since: Apr 13

San Jose, CA.

#107287 May 10, 2013
wacosaki wrote:
I think i need a vulcan cannon and some nukes just for hunting purposes
"Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and EVERY OTHER TERRIBLE IMPLEMENT of the soldier, are the BIRTHRIGHT of an American .... The UNLIMITED power of the sword is NOT in the hands of EITHER the federal or state government, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the HANDS OF THE PEOPLE."--Tench Coxe, Pennsylvania Gazette, February 1788.(Mr. Coxe was a leading proponent of the Constitution and Bill of Rights and an American political economist and a delegate for Pennsylvania to the Continental Congress in 1788-1789. He was appointed revenue commissioner by President George Washington on June 30, 1792).
Larry

Speers Point, Australia

#107289 May 10, 2013
I don't want to see the US become Somalia. I don't have all the stats with me, but I think GoGo Bar has done a pretty good job of showing that the statistics are quite telling, Australia has not had a mass shooting event since the inplementation of gun control laws after the port Arthur, call it a statistical anomoally or whatever you like.
Larry

Speers Point, Australia

#107290 May 10, 2013
*Implementation

It would be a fantastic move by The government to introduce some significant laws on gun regulation. If nothing changes you can't expect any change aye.
GoGoBar

Thailand

#107291 May 10, 2013
Larry wrote:
I don't want to see the US become Somalia. I don't have all the stats with me, but I think GoGo Bar has done a pretty good job of showing that the statistics are quite telling, Australia has not had a mass shooting event since the inplementation of gun control laws after the port Arthur, call it a statistical anomoally or whatever you like.
OOh dont say that. The gunnuts want to reclass a double shooting massacre at a University as a shooting massacre.
Wheras a mass shooting in the US has to be 4 deaths nor more. But if they want to reclassify a double murder shooting a mass murder then they may have to accept that the US has about 3 per day

It is strange how all the refugees want to get away from Somalia conditions but these gun guys want to bring it on as fast as possible.
Larry

Speers Point, Australia

#107292 May 10, 2013
Not at Boolaroo, don't know why it comes up..

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#107293 May 10, 2013
Larry wrote:
*Implementation
It would be a fantastic move by The government to introduce some significant laws on gun regulation. If nothing changes you can't expect any change aye.
We already do have gun regulations in place it the BS the Federal Government is and has been involved with that no one knows about just look at what happened in Tucson and Phoenix where the US Federal Government purposely allowed licensed firearms dealers to sell weapons to illegal straw buyers so what is more Regulation going to do when the US Federal Government is involved in BS like this and putting the public safety at risk besides at the same time creating a gun crisis for political purpose.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_s...

The Gun Show "Loophole:" More Gun Control Disguised as Crime Control

Federal law requires that any person "engaged in the business" of selling firearms possess a valid Federal Firearms License. This is true whether one is selling guns for a living at a gun store or at a gun show. Licensed dealers must conduct an NICS check prior to the transfer of any firearm - regardless of where that transfer occurs. The majority of sellers at gun shows are licensed dealers and do conduct checks.

http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba349

GunShow1

“Shall NOT be infringed!”

Since: Apr 13

San Jose, CA.

#107294 May 10, 2013
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>We already do have gun regulations in place it the BS the Federal Government is and has been involved with that no one knows about just look at what happened in Tucson and Phoenix where the US Federal Government purposely allowed licensed firearms dealers to sell weapons to illegal straw buyers so what is more Regulation going to do when the US Federal Government is involved in BS like this and putting the public safety at risk besides at the same time creating a gun crisis for political purpose.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_s...
The Gun Show "Loophole:" More Gun Control Disguised as Crime Control
Federal law requires that any person "engaged in the business" of selling firearms possess a valid Federal Firearms License. This is true whether one is selling guns for a living at a gun store or at a gun show. Licensed dealers must conduct an NICS check prior to the transfer of any firearm - regardless of where that transfer occurs. The majority of sellers at gun shows are licensed dealers and do conduct checks.
http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba349
The fact is, the federal government should have never been involved with our right to arms in the first place. As they are EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN from doing ANY such thing. We didn't have a problem before the 1968 'gun control' law.(Except for that ex-military sniper in Texas).

In EVERY area in the U.S. where 'gun control' is [perversely] implemented. The crime rates ALWAYS rise. ANY and ALL 'gun control' is UNCONSTITUTIONAL PERIOD.
Still

Huntsville, AL

#107295 May 10, 2013
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>
beating that dead horse and perpetuating the idiotic conspiracy theory. The LEOs were given too much discretion and did a dumsht thing. In the opposite situation you'd be wanking that the politicians were interfering with border security.

GunShow1

“Shall NOT be infringed!”

Since: Apr 13

San Jose, CA.

#107296 May 10, 2013
Larry wrote:
I don't want to see the US become Somalia. I don't have all the stats with me, but I think GoGo Bar has done a pretty good job of showing that the statistics are quite telling, Australia has not had a mass shooting event since the inplementation of gun control laws after the port Arthur, call it a statistical anomoally or whatever you like.
Joyce Lee Malcolm: Two Cautionary Tales of Gun Control

After a school massacre, the U.K. banned handguns in 1998. A decade later, handgun crime had doubled.

Americans are determined that massacres such as happened in Newtown, Conn., never happen again. But how? Many advocate more effective treatment of mentally-ill people or armed protection in so-called gun-free zones. Many others demand stricter control of firearms.

We aren't alone in facing this problem. Great Britain and Australia, for example, suffered mass shootings in the 1980s and 1990s. Both countries had very stringent gun laws when they occurred. Nevertheless, both decided that even stricter control of guns was the answer. Their experiences can be instructive....

...According to their study, the use of handguns rather than long guns (rifles and shotguns) went up sharply, but only one out of 117 gun homicides in the two years following the 1996 National Firearms Agreement used a registered gun. Suicides with firearms went down but suicides by other means went up. They reported "a modest reduction in the severity" of massacres (four or more indiscriminate homicides) in the five years since the government weapons buyback. These involved knives, gas and arson rather than firearms.

In 2008, the Australian Institute of Criminology reported a decrease of 9% in homicides and a one-third decrease in armed robbery since the 1990s, but an increase of over 40% in assaults and 20% in sexual assaults.

What to conclude? Strict gun laws in Great Britain and Australia haven't made their people noticeably safer, nor have they prevented massacres. The two major countries held up as models for the U.S. don't provide much evidence that strict gun laws will solve our problems.

Ms. Malcolm, a professor of law at George Mason University Law School,
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142412788...

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#107297 May 10, 2013
GunShow1 wrote:
<quoted text>
The fact is, the federal government should have never been involved with our right to arms in the first place. As they are EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN from doing ANY such thing. We didn't have a problem before the 1968 'gun control' law.(Except for that ex-military sniper in Texas).
In EVERY area in the U.S. where 'gun control' is [perversely] implemented. The crime rates ALWAYS rise. ANY and ALL 'gun control' is UNCONSTITUTIONAL PERIOD.
I agree but a lot of it goes back to 1934 too with National Firearms Act of 1934 with the Democrats.

The purpose of the NFA was to regulate what were considered "gangster weapons" such as machine guns and short barreled shotguns. Originally, pistols and revolvers were to be regulated as strictly as machine guns; towards that end, cutting down a rifle or shotgun to circumvent the handgun restrictions by making a concealable weapon was taxed as strictly as a machine gun.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearm...
LIBERTY

Torrance, CA

#107298 May 10, 2013
Larry wrote:
I don't want to see the US become Somalia. I don't have all the stats with me, but I think GoGo Bar has done a pretty good job of showing that the statistics are quite telling, Australia has not had a mass shooting event since the inplementation of gun control laws after the port Arthur, call it a statistical anomoally or whatever you like.
Stupid australian...australia is shit compared to usa Now go&#65279; get drunk and fall off a balcony in Bali stupid

GunShow1

“Shall NOT be infringed!”

Since: Apr 13

San Jose, CA.

#107299 May 10, 2013
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>I agree but a lot of it goes back to 1934 too with National Firearms Act of 1934 with the Democrats.
The purpose of the NFA was to regulate what were considered "gangster weapons" such as machine guns and short barreled shotguns. Originally, pistols and revolvers were to be regulated as strictly as machine guns; towards that end, cutting down a rifle or shotgun to circumvent the handgun restrictions by making a concealable weapon was taxed as strictly as a machine gun.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearm...
True. Which of course was still an infringement. What I was attempting to get across. Is that we don't need to explain, nor offer excuse of our right. It is supposed to be SECURED to us by We The People's Constitution. We do NOT need to justify that which is ours by birthright. We need to DEMAND that they take it all the way back to what was originally intended; "the Right of the People to Keep and Bear Arms shall NOT be infringed". Like THIS:

"We demand it according to law; we demand it upon the guarantees of the Constitution. You are bound to guaranty to us are republican form of Government, and we ask it as constitutional right. We do not ask you to interfere as a party, as your feelings or prejudices may be one way or another in reference to the parties of the country; but we ask you to interfere as a Government according to the Constitution. Of course we want your sympathy, and your regard, and your respect; but we ask your interference on constitutional grounds.
"The amendments to the Constitution, which constitute the bill of rights, declare that "a regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep bear arms shall not be infringed." Our people are denied this right secured to them in their constitution and the Constitution of the United States; yet we hear no complaints here of violations of the Constitution in this respect. We ask the Government to interpose to secure us this constitutional right."

- Senator Powell, July 27, 1861. The Congressional Globe, Pg. 296.(Lazarus W. Powell,(Oct. 6, 1812 – July 3, 1867), was the 19th Governor of Kentucky, from 1851 to 1855. And later elected to represent Kentucky in the U.S. Senate from 1859 to 1865.

These jokers that come up with all these reasons why we shouldn't. Should just be refuted and dismissed. They perversely attempt to draw us away from the ROCK of our foundation. REFUTE with the FACTS, and dismiss with scorn. We have NOTHING to "prove", other than that those that oppose us our LIARS.
GoGoBar

Thailand

#107300 May 10, 2013
USA 2010
Total Murders...... 12996
Firearm Murders..... 8775
Justifiable Homicide..225 (Gun self defense)

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in...

Now if guns were life savers should it be more like
Total Murders......8775
Firearm Murders....3796
Self defense.......2800 (Gun self defenense)

Those 280 million guns just cant keep up.

GunShow1

“Shall NOT be infringed!”

Since: Apr 13

San Jose, CA.

#107302 May 10, 2013
GoGoBar wrote:
USA 2010
Total Murders...... 12996
Firearm Murders..... 8775
Justifiable Homicide..225 (Gun self defense)
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in...
Now if guns were life savers should it be more like
Total Murders......8775
Firearm Murders....3796
Self defense.......2800 (Gun self defenense)
Those 280 million guns just cant keep up.
Not quite, troll. The major population centers, which are also the highest crime centers. Have all been severely limited on bearing arms. Those numbers would be drastically reduced if all states had Constitutional carry. And THAT is a FACT.
GoGoBar

Thailand

#107303 May 11, 2013
GunShow1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Not quite, troll. The major population centers, which are also the highest crime centers. Have all been severely limited on bearing arms. Those numbers would be drastically reduced if all states had Constitutional carry. And THAT is a FACT.
LOL> Like Terxas, Arizona, Florida.

Now are your Carry Gun guys in which group?

12996 Total Murders
225 Justifiable Homicide with Firearm?

LOL They must be in the 225. 50 to one! Stretch that out over your BS.

GunShow1

“Shall NOT be infringed!”

Since: Apr 13

San Jose, CA.

#107305 May 11, 2013
GoGoBar wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL> Like Terxas, Arizona, Florida.
Now are your Carry Gun guys in which group?
12996 Total Murders
225 Justifiable Homicide with Firearm?
LOL They must be in the 225. 50 to one! Stretch that out over your BS.
None of your business, knave. We have the right, you DON'T. Shove off.

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#107307 May 11, 2013
Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
Who kept who out?
Didn't the cops keep organised crime out of LA?
Tray

Tupelo, MS

#107308 May 11, 2013
GoGoBar wrote:
USA 2010
Total Murders...... 12996
Firearm Murders..... 8775
Justifiable Homicide..225 (Gun self defense)
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in...
Now if guns were life savers should it be more like
Total Murders......8775
Firearm Murders....3796
Self defense.......2800 (Gun self defenense)
Those 280 million guns just cant keep up.
Then explain why cops don't kill every criminal they catch? Cops carry guns but rarely kill those criminals they arrest. They do stop criminals but do not always have to kill the criminals to do it. Funny how you ALWAYS leave out the numbers of guns used to stop criminals but did not end up killing the criminal.
Sir Bucking Fastard

UK

#107309 May 11, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
Didn't the cops keep organised crime out of LA?
The cops in LA ARE the organised criminals, not to mention that they are racist in the extreme.

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