It's the Guns, Stupid

It's the Guns, Stupid

There are 103340 comments on the Truthdig story from Apr 20, 2007, titled It's the Guns, Stupid. In it, Truthdig reports that:

“And that's the end of the issue”

Why do we have the same futile argument every time there is a mass killing? Advocates of gun control try to open a discussion about whether more reasonable weapons statutes might reduce the number of violent ... via Truthdig

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Truthdig.

Then

Santa Fe, NM

#107192 May 9, 2013
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>

There Is No Gun Show Loophole
it shouldn't be considered a big burden to comply.
What

Santa Fe, NM

#107193 May 9, 2013
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>
There Is No Gun Show Loophole
happens in the parking lot?
Teaman

Mount Holly, NJ

#107194 May 9, 2013
What wrote:
<quoted text>
happens in the parking lot?
The same thing that happens with federal background checks.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#107195 May 9, 2013
What wrote:
<quoted text>
happens in the parking lot?
not with someone selling gun legally like the "The Gun Show "Loophole:" More Gun Control Disguised as Crime Control" article said because Federal law requires that any person "engaged in the business" of selling firearms possess a valid Federal Firearms License.

Gun Shows Are Not "Arms Bazaars" for Criminals

A mid-1980s National Institute of Justice (NIJ) study of convicted felons in 12 state prisons found that criminals purchased firearms at gun shows so rarely that those purchases were not worth reporting as a separate category.

The evidence indicates that criminal demand for firearms did not shift to gun shows after the 1994 Brady Law mandated background checks for all gun purchases from licensed dealers.
•An NIJ study released in December 1997 said only 2 percent of criminal guns came from gun shows.
•A study of youthful offenders in Michigan, presented at a meeting of the American Society of Criminology, found that only 3 percent had acquired their last handgun at a gun show - and many of the purchases were made by "straw purchasers" (i.e., legal gun buyers illegally acting as surrogates for criminals).
•A 1997 report by the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics on federal firearms offenders said only 1.7 percent of crime guns are acquired at gun shows [ see the figure ].
•According to a report issued by the educational arm of Handgun Control, only two of 48 major city police chiefs said that gun show sales were an important problem in their city.

http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba349

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#107196 May 9, 2013
Then wrote:
<quoted text>
it shouldn't be considered a big burden to comply.
FFL dealers do comply unless the Federal Government is involved like they were in the Tucson and Phoenix area where the ATF "purposely allowed licensed firearms dealers to sell weapons to illegal straw buyers, hoping to track the guns to Mexican drug cartel leaders."

ATF gunwalking scandal

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_s...
ofhs

Melbourne, Australia

#107197 May 9, 2013
ofhs wrote:
ozfeed.com.au/politics/5-funni est-obama-pics/attachment/obam a-rastafarian/
what if he were ....no guns please we are Rasta peace and love I bring to you peace and love

showbiz.peacefmonline.com/news/201205/113493....

ozfeed.com .au/politics/5-funniest-obama- pics/
ofhs

Melbourne, Australia

#107198 May 9, 2013
{{{{{ Please don't drop no more bombs }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
Are

Santa Fe, NM

#107199 May 9, 2013
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>
you stoned? What does an LEO screw-up have to do with this?
ofhs

Melbourne, Australia

#107200 May 9, 2013
Are wrote:
<quoted text>
you stoned? What does an LEO screw-up have to do with this?
well anomaly of indus....

Are you??????????

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#107201 May 9, 2013
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>Australia is turning into a War Zone just like Chicago did.
In your wet dreams...

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#107202 May 9, 2013
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>LOL you cant go by prisoner rates because it has been pointed out that the reason most people are incarcerated here in the US is because of drugs & violent crime and what you are going in Australia and its already happening is just like here in the US during prohibition when the Federal Government banned Alcohol and crime shot up.
I would have thought it was because of the organised crime gangs making money from the prohibition and if it wasn't for them it would have worked, then the major drug problem you have....

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#107203 May 9, 2013
Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
Crime has been dropping steadily. The point was the increase in gun sales did not increase crime.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/29/justice/us-viol...
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in...
Handguns picked up a little, but overall crime dropped.
Again where can anyone claim the crime and gun rate is declining without the proof of figures for the last two years, I would think if most on here make such a claim they would be doing so on up to date figures seeing they are all so hell bent on statistics.
Ahsolemana

Australia

#107204 May 9, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
Again where can anyone claim the crime and gun rate is declining without the proof of figures for the last two years, I would think if most on here make such a claim they would be doing so on up to date figures seeing they are all so hell bent on statistics.
Listen here you fat troll you have been on this thread spewing out your hatred for far too long, get outside and make a friend FFS
UNCLE BEN

Pikesville, MD

#107205 May 9, 2013
I need my 29 guns in order to take over the Younited States guvment when it gets tyrannical. They want to take away the rights of God-fearing, law-abiding gun owners. I need my Uzis to hunt squirrels & deer. Me and the boys who meet at the Tastee Diner every morning can get organized at a moment's notice. The guvment better watch out.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#107206 May 9, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
In your wet dreams...
not in my wet dreams but yours go back and click on the Links from perthnow.com and here is one from the Sunday Times on perthnow.com about the corrupt police.

West Australian police officers charged with criminal offences

WA police officers have been convicted of nearly 250 criminal offences over the past five years including sex crimes against children, serious assaults, burglary and dangerous driving.

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-austr...

“Shall NOT be infringed!”

Since: Apr 13

San Jose, CA.

#107207 May 9, 2013
Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
The same thing that happens with federal background checks.
You of course mean the UNCONSTITUTIONAL 'federal background checks', right?

“Shall NOT be infringed!”

Since: Apr 13

San Jose, CA.

#107208 May 9, 2013
UNCLE BEN wrote:
I need my 29 guns in order to take over the Younited States guvment when it gets tyrannical. They want to take away the rights of God-fearing, law-abiding gun owners. I need my Uzis to hunt squirrels & deer. Me and the boys who meet at the Tastee Diner every morning can get organized at a moment's notice. The guvment better watch out.
Disgusting, coming from one of the original 13 states. You are a nothing more than a traitor, and an ignorant one at that

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#107209 May 9, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
I would have thought it was because of the organised crime gangs making money from the prohibition and if it wasn't for them it would have worked, then the major drug problem you have....
The Drug Problem is just like it was during Prohibition here in the US and Chicago which a lot of the homicides in Chicago are related to drugs and gangs just like it was during Prohibition in Chicago.

“Shall NOT be infringed!”

Since: Apr 13

San Jose, CA.

#107210 May 9, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
Again where can anyone claim the crime and gun rate is declining without the proof of figures for the last two years, I would think if most on here make such a claim they would be doing so on up to date figures seeing they are all so hell bent on statistics.
US
Gun crime continues to decrease, despite increase in gun sales
3:41 PM 09/28/2011

Despite increases in gun sales, gun crimes continued to decrease in the United States for the fourth straight year in 2010, according to the FBI.

The FBI recently released its Crime in The United States statistics for 2010. Overall, murders in the U.S. have decreased steadily since 2006, dropping from 15,087 to 12,996. Firearms murders — which made up 67 percent of all murders in the U.S. in 2010 — have followed this trend, decreasing by 14 percent.

At the same time that firearms murders were dropping, gun sales were surging. In 2009, FBI background checks for guns increased by 30 percent over the previous year, while firearms sales in large retail outlets increased by almost 40 percent. The number of applications for concealed carry permits jumped across the country as well.
http://dailycaller.com/2011/09/28/gun-crime-c...

And that was two years ago.

“Shall NOT be infringed!”

Since: Apr 13

San Jose, CA.

#107211 May 9, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
In your wet dreams...
Actually, if the Australian Bureau of Criminology can be believed, Americans would be insane to concern themselves with what non-Americans think about American gun rights.

In 2002 — five years after enacting its gun ban — the Australian Bureau of Criminology acknowledged there is no correlation between gun control and the use of firearms in violent crime. In fact, the percent of murders committed with a firearm was the highest it had ever been in 2006 (16.3 percent), says the D.C. Examiner.

Even Australia’s Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research acknowledges that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime:

In 2006, assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
Sexual assault — Australia’s equivalent term for rape — increased 29.9 percent.
Overall, Australia’s violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.

Moreover, Australia and the United States — where no gun-ban exists — both experienced similar decreases in murder rates:

Between 1995 and 2007, Australia saw a 31.9 percent decrease; without a gun ban, America’s rate dropped 31.7 percent.
During the same time period, all other violent crime indices increased in Australia: assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
Sexual assault — Australia’s equivalent term for rape — increased 29.9 percent.
Overall, Australia’s violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
At the same time, U.S. violent crime decreased 31.8 percent: rape dropped 19.2 percent; robbery decreased 33.2 percent; aggravated assault dropped 32.2 percent.
Australian women are now raped over three times as often as American women.

So, if the USA follows Australia’s lead in banning guns, it should expect a 42 percent increase in violent crime, a higher percentage of murders committed with a gun, and three times more rape. One wonders if Freddy even bothered to look up the relative crime statistics.

The International Crime Victims Survey, conducted by Leiden University in Holland, found that England and Wales ranked second overall in violent crime among industrialized nations. Twenty-six percent of English citizens — roughly one-quarter of the population — have been victimized by violent crime. Australia led the list with more than 30 percent of its population victimized. The United States didn’t even make the “top 10&#8243; list of industrialized nations whose citizens were victimized by crime.
http://www.captainsjournal.com/2012/07/23/do-...

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