It's the Guns, Stupid

It's the Guns, Stupid

There are 103300 comments on the Truthdig story from Apr 20, 2007, titled It's the Guns, Stupid. In it, Truthdig reports that:

“And that's the end of the issue”

Why do we have the same futile argument every time there is a mass killing? Advocates of gun control try to open a discussion about whether more reasonable weapons statutes might reduce the number of violent ... via Truthdig

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Truthdig.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#107223 May 9, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
Right, yet you are still failing to recognise that prohibition would have been a homemade concern if you hadn't had organised crime...the reasons for the ban in the first place to try and reduce the crime...it didn't work because it only made the crime sindicates richer so they bribed the officials etc...and it made the citizens poorer so they went to work for the crims and I believe that mentality remains today...and that is why no ban will work in America when you have the organised crime syndicates that can capitalise on that...and in saying that it doesn't help when your citizens are aiding them by supporting a company that influences those in congress. In order to implement gun bans first you must have control of your country and the American people have not....nor do the American government.
Our gun ban works because we don't believe in guns in or any weapon as a means of protection and it is treated here as the last resort...The biggest threat we have to our freedoms here is not the citizens rising up against the government it is the organised crime syndicates, for that reason we aim to work with the government to allow them as much freedom it takes to bring them down....
So I say anytime one of them tops another, good job and there has been a bit of it of late...turf wars probably...it makes our cops jobs easier and that is one more scum bag rid of, none of us shed a tear when Carl Williams left the planet or the Morans...they were no Robin Hoods.
http://www.thefinertimes.com/20th-Century-Cri...
and the same argument you are using above is the same thing that is happening with guns in Australia.

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#107224 May 9, 2013
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>There Is No Gun Show Loophole
The claim that a quarter to half of the vendors at most gun shows are unlicensed dealers is true only if one counts vendors selling items other than guns (e.g., books, clothing, ammunition, knives, holsters and other accessories) as unlicensed dealers.
Federal law requires that any person "engaged in the business" of selling firearms possess a valid Federal Firearms License. This is true whether one is selling guns for a living at a gun store or at a gun show. Licensed dealers must conduct an NICS check prior to the transfer of any firearm - regardless of where that transfer occurs. The majority of sellers at gun shows are licensed dealers and do conduct checks.
Individuals who occasionally sell or trade guns from their personal collection need not be licensed nor are they required to conduct a NICS check prior to the sale - whether the sale occurs at a gun show, at their home or out of the trunk of their car. Congress never intended a person who wants to sell a spare hunting rifle to a friend, a father who wishes to give a .22 rifle to his son or a widow who wishes to dispose of her late husband's firearms through an Internet auction or an ad in the local paper to undertake a NICS background check.
Thus, the same laws apply to gun shows as to all other gun transactions.
http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba349
I seriously can't believe your naivete...one minute you say crims get their guns illegally and yet you think all gun sellers especially those at gun shows do so legally...you just posted a cop in a gun smuggling ring...which I have stated there must be corrupt officials and sellers for so many guns to get across the border...so where did the cop get all these guns from a legal seller? I don't think so...

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#107225 May 9, 2013
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>FFL dealers do comply unless the Federal Government is involved like they were in the Tucson and Phoenix area where the ATF "purposely allowed licensed firearms dealers to sell weapons to illegal straw buyers, hoping to track the guns to Mexican drug cartel leaders."
ATF gunwalking scandal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_s...
Did the Fed also involve them in the case where that cop you mentioned were smuggling guns...they aren't involved in all cases surely?
Teaman

Abingdon, VA

#107227 May 9, 2013
GunShow1 wrote:
<quoted text>
You of course mean the UNCONSTITUTIONAL 'federal background checks', right?
Absolutely. Demonstrating how useless they would be. All they are proposing is nothing but power grab.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#107228 May 9, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
Did the Fed also involve them in the case where that cop you mentioned were smuggling guns...they aren't involved in all cases surely?
Do you really think the US Federal Government is going to come out and publically announce that that they are involved "purposely" allowing licensed firearms dealers to sell weapons to illegal straw buyers, no way and hell which the US Federal Government tried to deny any involvement in the Tucson and Phoenix ATF gunwalking scandal went the scandal broke which the US Federal Government was knowingly Violating US Federal Law and risking the public & public safety.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_s...
Teaman

Abingdon, VA

#107229 May 9, 2013
UNCLE BEN wrote:
What about your workplace? You never know what might happen there, Virgil. Best to take your assault rifle.
What I do NOT want to see is the precious gun owner being inconvenienced by background checks, filling out forms, answering questions, etc. He is a busy person. He told you that he was a law-abiding citizen. Why are you continuing to harass
him????
The tyranny of the United States guvment will be avenged!
There's no background checks in Maryland?

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#107230 May 9, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
I seriously can't believe your naivete...one minute you say crims get their guns illegally and yet you think all gun sellers especially those at gun shows do so legally...you just posted a cop in a gun smuggling ring...which I have stated there must be corrupt officials and sellers for so many guns to get across the border...so where did the cop get all these guns from a legal seller? I don't think so...
your definitely naïve and like twisting the facts.
Teaman

Abingdon, VA

#107231 May 9, 2013
UNCLE BEN wrote:
So I have to put up with people who aren't cops walking around with rifles over their shoulder and guns at their side?
"I'm defending myself!!! It's my right!"
So you take it to church, daughter's soccer practice, your brother's wedding, church, doctor/dentist office, library, etc?
Really!? You have people walking around with guns over their shoulders there?
Teaman

Abingdon, VA

#107232 May 9, 2013
We don't have a gun problem, we have a gang problem.

http://frontpagemag.com/2012/dgreenfield/amer...

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#107233 May 9, 2013
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>You seriously need to get your facts straight and you better go back and read those articles on www.perthnow.com I posted and they tell a different story of what you are telling on how great the gun ban has been for Australia and prove crime has went up just like here where 347 charges have been laid against 100 officers after complaints from the public and internal investigations since 2008 and were charged with criminal offences which nearly 250 of them over the past five years included sex crimes against children, serious assaults, burglary and dangerous driving and they possess the guns in Australia and this has nothing to do with the NRA.
http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-austr...
WA police officers have been convicted of nearly 250 criminal offences over the past five years including sex crimes against children, serious assaults, burglary and dangerous driving.
out of the 248 offences over half were for misusing their computer....out of 68 officers charged five went to prison for the seriousness of their crimes and only one was jailed for indecent dealings with a child under sixteen, so he was a pedophile even prison is too good for him, but he will get his...If anything it shows that we have a system that brings everyone to justice even our law enforcement...don't you only wish you had a system that worked so well...when was the last time you Americans were brave enough to be so thorough?

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#107234 May 9, 2013
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>your definitely naïve and like twisting the facts.
Me naive...on what planet read back over my posts...you have to have corruption in every segment of your community to allow gun and drug smuggling from law enforcement to border patrol to the feds and law abiding gun sellers and airport and baggage staff if you bothered to follow them to their source, no different to us...We have the most comprehensive and up to date equipment to prevent drugs and guns from getting in yet they still are, en mass...there has to be a network of law abiding citizens even in the postal rooms that are aiding their entry....me naive...yuk yuk....in your dreams....the problem is that most target the symptoms not the disease because the corruption runs that far...
spocko

Oakland, CA

#107235 May 9, 2013
UNCLE BEN wrote:
So I have to put up with people who aren't cops walking around with rifles over their shoulder and guns at their side?
"I'm defending myself!!! It's my right!"
So you take it to church, daughter's soccer practice, your brother's wedding, church, doctor/dentist office, library, etc?
These gunloos think, breath, eat, walk, run and sleep guns they rather be dead than not have guns -- they are a minority they do not count!

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#107236 May 9, 2013
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>Do you really think the US Federal Government is going to come out and publically announce that that they are involved "purposely" allowing licensed firearms dealers to sell weapons to illegal straw buyers, no way and hell which the US Federal Government tried to deny any involvement in the Tucson and Phoenix ATF gunwalking scandal went the scandal broke which the US Federal Government was knowingly Violating US Federal Law and risking the public & public safety.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_s...
Oh I don't doubt they are in there somewhere but they are nothing comparred to organised crime that have target ex Mex cits now living in the US or a yank out to make a quick buck who has always skated on the thin edge of the law. It's like stealing...most law abiding people don't steal right, wrong a great deal of them (predominantly male) steal from their place of work....but that is not stealing right..it was just some rope or a pen or a lighter or a computer part or a cd or a drink or food? Stealing is stealing so if you are willing to steal from your employer and those wonderful statistics that you yanks like to misuse state they are skating on the edge what would push them over. Over 75% of American workers have been caught stealing from their employer...and that isn't the worst of it, it appears your employer sometimes steals from you....So how would you know who to trust with a gun or looking after your home if there is only a handful of decent honest people in the world?

http://www.evancarmichael.com/Retail/3869/Red...

http://www.alternet.org/labor/when-your-boss-...

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#107237 May 9, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
Me naive...on what planet read back over my posts...you have to have corruption in every segment of your community to allow gun and drug smuggling from law enforcement to border patrol to the feds and law abiding gun sellers and airport and baggage staff if you bothered to follow them to their source, no different to us...We have the most comprehensive and up to date equipment to prevent drugs and guns from getting in yet they still are, en mass...there has to be a network of law abiding citizens even in the postal rooms that are aiding their entry....me naive...yuk yuk....in your dreams....the problem is that most target the symptoms not the disease because the corruption runs that far...
Australia rich market for crims: UN study

April 16, 2013 9:50PM

AUSTRALIA is a lucrative market for international crime syndicates which earn about $US90 billion ($A87.7 billion) a year in the Asia-Pacific region, a new report has found.

Access all Areas.$1 for the first 28 days. Only $2.95 a week thereafter. Learn more..
.
The first Transnational Organised Crime in East Asia and the Pacific threat assessment, released in Sydney on Tuesday, says drugs - primarily heroin and methamphetamine - account for more than a third of organised crime gangs' profits.

Methamphetamine trade in the region brings in about $US15 billion, and heroin trafficking is worth roughly $US16.3 billion, the report compiled by the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime says.

The study put Australia's heroin use at 602 kilograms in 2011, worth about $US645 million.

While this pales in comparison to China - where 47,316kg worth about $US1.05 billion was consumed - the price per gram was almost five times higher in Australia.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-new...

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking...
Teaman

Abingdon, VA

#107238 May 9, 2013
spocko wrote:
<quoted text>
These gunloos think, breath, eat, walk, run and sleep guns they rather be dead than not have guns -- they are a minority they do not count!
A minority doesn't count, interesting. That's your democracy at work. And then you wonder why people get bent out of shape when the moron-in-chief makes noises about banning things.

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#107239 May 9, 2013
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>Do you really think the US Federal Government is going to come out and publically announce that that they are involved "purposely" allowing licensed firearms dealers to sell weapons to illegal straw buyers, no way and hell which the US Federal Government tried to deny any involvement in the Tucson and Phoenix ATF gunwalking scandal went the scandal broke which the US Federal Government was knowingly Violating US Federal Law and risking the public & public safety.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_s...
PS there is your naivete right there...every government breaks the laws for their own agenda's be they local laws international laws...law against humanity ...because they can...sometimes it is even in your best interest like assassinating a leader or despot to remove the threat to your economy...it doesn't make it one bit right, but if you knew that is why they were doing it....you would probably back them if you knew your job and your countries future was on the line....but it still is what they all do in some form or other...it is naive to think otherwise.
Teaman

Abingdon, VA

#107240 May 9, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh I don't doubt they are in there somewhere but they are nothing comparred to organised crime that have target ex Mex cits now living in the US or a yank out to make a quick buck who has always skated on the thin edge of the law. It's like stealing...most law abiding people don't steal right, wrong a great deal of them (predominantly male) steal from their place of work....but that is not stealing right..it was just some rope or a pen or a lighter or a computer part or a cd or a drink or food? Stealing is stealing so if you are willing to steal from your employer and those wonderful statistics that you yanks like to misuse state they are skating on the edge what would push them over. Over 75% of American workers have been caught stealing from their employer...and that isn't the worst of it, it appears your employer sometimes steals from you....So how would you know who to trust with a gun or looking after your home if there is only a handful of decent honest people in the world?
http://www.evancarmichael.com/Retail/3869/Red...
http://www.alternet.org/labor/when-your-boss-...
And our government routinely steals from its public.:-)

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#107241 May 9, 2013
Teaman wrote:
We don't have a gun problem, we have a gang problem.
http://frontpagemag.com/2012/dgreenfield/amer...
You have a gang problem made worse by the fact that they use guns....
anti-state

Hazard, KY

#107242 May 9, 2013
spocko wrote:
<quoted text>
These gunloos think, breath, eat, walk, run and sleep guns they rather be dead than not have guns -- they are a minority they do not count!
minorities don't count in a democracy and that is why i don't like them. America is meant to be a constitutional republic but it is far removed from it's founding principles. even uneducated people in afghanistan made guns to fight the ussr back in the 80's so how much better can we do? The second amendment is meant to protect us from big brother and believe me we need it. a right is non negotiable and is not the same as a privilege. you are a hopeless brainless statists that lacks the ability of critical thinks which involves common sense.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#107243 May 9, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
PS there is your naivete right there...every government breaks the laws for their own agenda's be they local laws international laws...law against humanity ...because they can...sometimes it is even in your best interest like assassinating a leader or despot to remove the threat to your economy...it doesn't make it one bit right, but if you knew that is why they were doing it....you would probably back them if you knew your job and your countries future was on the line....but it still is what they all do in some form or other...it is naive to think otherwise.
PS there is your naivete right there what do you think has been going on in Australia since 1997 even with the Police.

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