It's the Guns, Stupid

It's the Guns, Stupid

There are 103330 comments on the Truthdig story from Apr 20, 2007, titled It's the Guns, Stupid. In it, Truthdig reports that:

“And that's the end of the issue”

Why do we have the same futile argument every time there is a mass killing? Advocates of gun control try to open a discussion about whether more reasonable weapons statutes might reduce the number of violent ... via Truthdig

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Truthdig.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#107180 May 9, 2013
GoGoBar wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL Nationmaster = wikipedia, unicri etc.. all outdated. You should click on the sources of the Nationmaster links.
There is not one official Govt. source.
And most are from 2002
Violent Crime
USA.......... 2250/100,000
Australia.......1050/100,000
Prisoner Rates are a good indication of serious crime.
Australia 135/100K
USA.......769/100K
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv11.pdf
http://www.aic.gov.au/documents/0/B/6/%7B0B61...
LOL you cant go by prisoner rates because it has been pointed out that the reason most people are incarcerated here in the US is because of drugs & violent crime and what you are going in Australia and its already happening is just like here in the US during prohibition when the Federal Government banned Alcohol and crime shot up.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#107181 May 9, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
It's a war zone?
Australia is turning into a War Zone just like Chicago did.
Teaman

Mount Holly, NJ

#107182 May 9, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
Teaman...where are the statistics for the last three years...those figures were based in 2010 and published in 2011 and then again in 2012...same statistics...where are those that say the crime rate or gun deaths have declined since 2010? I really would like to know...it is a source that would mean a great deal to all who are interested in them.:)
Crime has been dropping steadily. The point was the increase in gun sales did not increase crime.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/29/justice/us-viol...

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in...

Handguns picked up a little, but overall crime dropped.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#107183 May 9, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
Instead of using nonsense statistics use the ones from the horses mouth...Now take note of the Australia vs USA crime per 100,000 per capita and don't tell me you don't just wish you were us....
http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs @.nsf/0/818290CA7DF32B80CA2570 EC001B2FC2?opendocument
http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs @.nsf/Lookup/by%20Subject/1301 .0~2012~Main%20Features~Nation al%20crime%20statistics~63
http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2012/october/...
you don't like facts and Crime is going to get worse.

Crime climbs in Australia after widespread gun ban

August 29, 2012

http://www.mauinews.com/page/content.detail/i...

Top cop urges tougher rules on gun imports

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking...

Australia bans firearms and crime goes up

Email from Ed Chenel, police officer, Australia:

In the first year since the firearms ban took place in the country, 640,381 guns were turned in to be destroyed, at a cost to the taxpayers of $500 million.


Results of first year following ban: Homicides up 6.2 percent; assaults up 9.6 percent; armed robbery up 44 percent.

Said Chenel: "Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not, and criminals still possess their guns!... Gun-control laws affect only the law-abiding citizens."

In response: This kind of news comes as no surprise to those of us who value our Second Amendment right to bear arms. It seems the only people who don't want us to protect ourselves are the Democrats, liberals, criminals, and, oh yes, the United Nations.

http://www.phillyburbs.com/news/local/courier...
How

Santa Fe, NM

#107184 May 9, 2013
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>l
many times will that old discredited spam from the alleged policeman get posted? I remember getting it over the fax machine. LOL
FormerParatroope r

Chattanooga, TN

#107185 May 9, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
It's a war zone?
How does my ownership of a firearm equate to making a war zone?

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#107186 May 9, 2013
How wrote:
<quoted text>
many times will that old discredited spam from the alleged policeman get posted? I remember getting it over the fax machine. LOL
speaking of Policeman

Former Police Officer Pleads Guilty to Gun Charges

BROWNSVILLE, Texas – Armando Duenez has entered a plea of guilty to conspiracy to export firearms and failure to appear, United States Attorney Kenneth Magidson announced today. Duenez, 31, who entered the plea late yesterday afternoon, was employed as a police officer with the Rio Hondo Police Department during the offense.

The former officer entered into an agreement with others to export weapons from the United States to Mexico. Duenez admitted to working with Raymond Martinez, formerly a member of the Palm Valley Police Department, to buy firearms and sell them for a profit to individuals who intended to smuggle them to Mexico. Duenez admitted to purchasing more than 15 semi-automatic rifles that were later sold in Mexico. The rifles were all capable of accepting high capacity magazines. The investigation began when weapons recovered in Mexico were traced back to him. Martinez was also convicted of dealing in firearms without a license and later sentenced to federal prison.

http://www.justice.gov/usao/txs/1News/Release...

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#107187 May 9, 2013
How wrote:
<quoted text>
many times will that old discredited spam from the alleged policeman get posted? I remember getting it over the fax machine. LOL
Now since all the guns have been collected the Corruption is already starting to show and these are the people that are entrusted with guns in the new Australian Society.

West Australian police officers charged with criminal offences

April 28, 2013 10:10AM

WA police officers have been convicted of nearly 250 criminal offences over the past five years including sex crimes against children, serious assaults, burglary and dangerous driving.

Figures obtained by The Sunday Times from WA Police Internal Affairs show 347 charges have been laid against 100 officers after complaints from the public and internal investigations since 2008.

The database reveals 11 officers have been convicted of a string of offences in the 2012-13 financial year, including a senior sergeant failing to stop after a crash, dangerous driving, stealing as a public servant and aggravated assault.

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-austr...

GunShow1

“Shall NOT be infringed!”

Since: Apr 13

San Jose, CA.

#107189 May 9, 2013
barefoot2626 wrote:
<quoted text>
.
"My excellent friend from Boylston,(Mr. Whitney,) has uttered, in the speech he has just made, many noble sentiments of love among men and peace on earth. I love peace not less ardently than my friend from Boylston. The bloodless victories of peace are as dear to me as to him. But I am not one of those men who cry peace, when there is no peace without slavery, injustice and wrong. My friend from North Brookfield,(Mr Walker,) and others, have spoken of the peace movements in England and on the continent, and of Richard Cobden and others of its leading spirits. I may be in error, but I have sometimes thought that the song which the peace movement has hymned into the ear of Europe during the past five years has made far easier the march of the legions Russia and Austria upon Hungary and Italy, and the march of the legions of France--of apostate republican France--upon Rome. While the people have listened with softened hearts to the songs of peace, their masters have disarmed them, and sent forth their increasing standing armies to crush every manifestation of freedom, progress, and popular rights. When tyranny is overthrown and freedom established; when standing armies are disbanded and the people armed for their own protection against arbitrary power; then I would write "peace" on the banners of the people and send them forth to make the tour of the world. My motto is "Liberty first--peace afterwards."

- Mr. Henry Wilson, June 21, 1853,[OFFICIAL REPORT OF THE DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS IN The State Convention ASSEMBLED MAY 4TH, 1853, TO REVISE AND AMEND THE CONSTITUTION OF THE Commonwealth of Massachusetts. VOLUME SECOND. BOSTON: WHITE & POTTER, PRINTERS TO THE CONVENTION, 1853.](Mr. Wilson,(Feb. 16, 1812 – Nov. 22, 1875), was a delegate to the state constitutional convention in 1853. He was elected to the United States Senate in 1855. He was reelected as a Republican in 1859, 1865 and 1871, and served from Jan. 31, 1855 to March 4, 1873, when he resigned to become Vice President. He was the 18th Vice President of the United States (1873–1875). During the Civil War, he was Chairman of the Committee on Military Affairs and the Militia, and the Committee on Military Affairs).

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#107191 May 9, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
I am saying if you allow the government to introduce the background checks, no one in Alaska will suffer because it will only affect those who choose to conduct business illegally, being thwarted through a private seller and gun shows and garage sales...all must produce evidence of the sale and a reciept for a background check... it is simple really and I don't know why some gun owners along with the NRA are so openly opposed to it, unless as I said they have something to hide?
There Is No Gun Show Loophole

The claim that a quarter to half of the vendors at most gun shows are unlicensed dealers is true only if one counts vendors selling items other than guns (e.g., books, clothing, ammunition, knives, holsters and other accessories) as unlicensed dealers.

Federal law requires that any person "engaged in the business" of selling firearms possess a valid Federal Firearms License. This is true whether one is selling guns for a living at a gun store or at a gun show. Licensed dealers must conduct an NICS check prior to the transfer of any firearm - regardless of where that transfer occurs. The majority of sellers at gun shows are licensed dealers and do conduct checks.

Individuals who occasionally sell or trade guns from their personal collection need not be licensed nor are they required to conduct a NICS check prior to the sale - whether the sale occurs at a gun show, at their home or out of the trunk of their car. Congress never intended a person who wants to sell a spare hunting rifle to a friend, a father who wishes to give a .22 rifle to his son or a widow who wishes to dispose of her late husband's firearms through an Internet auction or an ad in the local paper to undertake a NICS background check.

Thus, the same laws apply to gun shows as to all other gun transactions.

http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba349
Then

Santa Fe, NM

#107192 May 9, 2013
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>

There Is No Gun Show Loophole
it shouldn't be considered a big burden to comply.
What

Santa Fe, NM

#107193 May 9, 2013
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>
There Is No Gun Show Loophole
happens in the parking lot?
Teaman

Mount Holly, NJ

#107194 May 9, 2013
What wrote:
<quoted text>
happens in the parking lot?
The same thing that happens with federal background checks.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#107195 May 9, 2013
What wrote:
<quoted text>
happens in the parking lot?
not with someone selling gun legally like the "The Gun Show "Loophole:" More Gun Control Disguised as Crime Control" article said because Federal law requires that any person "engaged in the business" of selling firearms possess a valid Federal Firearms License.

Gun Shows Are Not "Arms Bazaars" for Criminals

A mid-1980s National Institute of Justice (NIJ) study of convicted felons in 12 state prisons found that criminals purchased firearms at gun shows so rarely that those purchases were not worth reporting as a separate category.

The evidence indicates that criminal demand for firearms did not shift to gun shows after the 1994 Brady Law mandated background checks for all gun purchases from licensed dealers.
•An NIJ study released in December 1997 said only 2 percent of criminal guns came from gun shows.
•A study of youthful offenders in Michigan, presented at a meeting of the American Society of Criminology, found that only 3 percent had acquired their last handgun at a gun show - and many of the purchases were made by "straw purchasers" (i.e., legal gun buyers illegally acting as surrogates for criminals).
•A 1997 report by the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics on federal firearms offenders said only 1.7 percent of crime guns are acquired at gun shows [ see the figure ].
•According to a report issued by the educational arm of Handgun Control, only two of 48 major city police chiefs said that gun show sales were an important problem in their city.

http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba349

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#107196 May 9, 2013
Then wrote:
<quoted text>
it shouldn't be considered a big burden to comply.
FFL dealers do comply unless the Federal Government is involved like they were in the Tucson and Phoenix area where the ATF "purposely allowed licensed firearms dealers to sell weapons to illegal straw buyers, hoping to track the guns to Mexican drug cartel leaders."

ATF gunwalking scandal

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_s...
ofhs

Melbourne, Australia

#107197 May 9, 2013
ofhs wrote:
ozfeed.com.au/politics/5-funni est-obama-pics/attachment/obam a-rastafarian/
what if he were ....no guns please we are Rasta peace and love I bring to you peace and love

showbiz.peacefmonline.com/news/201205/113493....

ozfeed.com .au/politics/5-funniest-obama- pics/
ofhs

Melbourne, Australia

#107198 May 9, 2013
{{{{{ Please don't drop no more bombs }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
Are

Santa Fe, NM

#107199 May 9, 2013
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>
you stoned? What does an LEO screw-up have to do with this?
ofhs

Melbourne, Australia

#107200 May 9, 2013
Are wrote:
<quoted text>
you stoned? What does an LEO screw-up have to do with this?
well anomaly of indus....

Are you??????????

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#107201 May 9, 2013
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>Australia is turning into a War Zone just like Chicago did.
In your wet dreams...

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