It's the Guns, Stupid

It's the Guns, Stupid

There are 103311 comments on the Truthdig story from Apr 20, 2007, titled It's the Guns, Stupid. In it, Truthdig reports that:

“And that's the end of the issue”

Why do we have the same futile argument every time there is a mass killing? Advocates of gun control try to open a discussion about whether more reasonable weapons statutes might reduce the number of violent ... via Truthdig

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Truthdig.

Since: May 13

Location hidden

#107088 May 8, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
Then that should suit you just fine because you and that other troll are lame.
Why dont you just take a slow boat to China.

Since: Dec 10

Glandore, Australia

#107089 May 8, 2013
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
and still only looking at around 30 deaths by gun most of which are criminals...gun control saving the day. Oh I thought I would let you do the body count, here is your death toll since Newtown....in pictures for the stupid...

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politi...

Since: Dec 10

Glandore, Australia

#107090 May 8, 2013
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
Did Lifting Gun Ban Lower Crime Rates in D.C. & Chicago?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =XEL4Ss3oddoXX
Remove the top 629 Australians per year(mostly males) in this link for deaths since Newtown....
this includes accidents, suicides and homicide.... the rest are yours...mind you, the chart on how many deaths by gun in America since Newtown isn't finished yet but you get the gist eh!....
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politi...

http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/current%20...
LBer

Long Beach, CA

#107091 May 8, 2013
Two problems with more extensive back ground checks:

1. Will not effect criminal acquisition of firearms.

2. Is another step toward total registration and then confiscation. As each step that starts out as exceptional becomes 'the norm', it makes it that much easier to take the next step - further restrict rights, eventually leading to a total ban.

Besides, when pressed all sides admit that these new laws would not have stopped any of the well publicized shootings of late.

Since: Dec 10

Glandore, Australia

#107092 May 8, 2013
Agent_Smith wrote:
<quoted text>
Why dont you just take a slow boat to China.
No troll I don't think I will, I am busy educated you dicks on topix.. why don't you? It is nice there this time of year.

Since: Dec 10

Glandore, Australia

#107093 May 8, 2013
LBer wrote:
Two problems with more extensive back ground checks:
1. Will not effect criminal acquisition of firearms.
2. Is another step toward total registration and then confiscation. As each step that starts out as exceptional becomes 'the norm', it makes it that much easier to take the next step - further restrict rights, eventually leading to a total ban.
Besides, when pressed all sides admit that these new laws would not have stopped any of the well publicized shootings of late.
Not true....most crims can get their guns via gun shows and out of the boot of a car, so making all sellers liable for enforcing a background check would see more sellers become responsible for the sale of guns.... and secondly every gun should be registered so you would have a trail on who is supplying the crims and smuggling the guns...
LBer

Long Beach, CA

#107094 May 8, 2013
Good luck breathing the air of Beijing! Been there - nice people, nasty environment.

GunShow1

“Shall NOT be infringed!”

Since: Apr 13

San Jose, CA.

#107095 May 8, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
Not true....most crims can get their guns via gun shows and out of the boot of a car, so making all sellers liable for enforcing a background check would see more sellers become responsible for the sale of guns.... and secondly every gun should be registered so you would have a trail on who is supplying the crims and smuggling the guns...
WRONG AGAIN troll. The VAST MAJORITY of criminals STEAL the weapons they use in crimes. And FBI data PROVES that most conclusively.

GunShow1

“Shall NOT be infringed!”

Since: Apr 13

San Jose, CA.

#107096 May 8, 2013
spocko wrote:
<quoted text>
Clearly, you have a big mouth and a tiny little pecker ain't ya friend? Going to gun shows is not the same as serving in the military but of course you wouldn't know that - chicken hawk.
Here's an EXTRA SPECIAL one just for >you<, traitor-troll:

"The section which declares that no law shall restrict the right of the people to bear arms, whether in defense of themselves or of the State, was read a second time.
"Mr. RARIDEN said he would like to know from the gentlemen who reported this section whether it was the intention to permit or prohibit the wearing of concealed weapons. He preferred the language of the old Constitution. He would move to strike out the section and insert the corresponding section of the old Constitution.
"Mr. OWEN said he would suggest to the gentleman from Wayne that if he wished to prohibit the carrying of weapons it would be necessary to change the language of the old Constitution. For if it were declared by Constitutional provision that the people should have the right to bear arms, no law of the Legislature could take away that right."

- Dec. 31, 1850, Afternoon Session.[REPORT OF THE DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS OF THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION OF THE CONSTITUTION THE STATE OF INDIANA. 1850. VOLUME II. H. FOWLER, OFFICIAL REPORTER TO THE CONVENTION. A.H. BROWN, PRINTER TO THE CONVENTION. INDIANAPOLIS, IND 1850.

Nice, ISN'T IT?

I will now repeat:

ALL 'gun control laws' are UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

And We The People are under NO obligation to obey them.

Our hired servants have been LYING to us. And have CONSPIRED to DEFRAUD us of our INALIENABLE NATURAL RIGHT. Which, in effect, is TREASON. For We The People are the SOVEREIGN AUTHORITY, and our Constitution is "THE SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND".
FormerParatroope r

United States

#107097 May 8, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
Then why go against the background checks or the call to reduce the amount of weapons that are not needed, they are not taking the guns you need...?
Mind a country where three men can hold two kids and one adult hostage for ten years in suburbia and abuse them without anyone of their neighbours waking up to that fact, says so much about the mentality of Americans and there extreme attitudes towards one another in society. Now it is said that two of the brothers haven't been charged because of lack of evidence...on what feckin' planet in what country? oh America oh yeah that would be right...the fact that they lived in the house made them at the least an acccessory to kidnap and deprivation of liberty....you people are feckin' nuts...and that poor girl still in hospital because no one has given her a homecoming because the family is divided because of the crisis....what about what she went through for the last ten years... your society is as sick as it gets...
This happens everywhere. It is not contained to one Country. There are sick and demented people everywhere. The pervert in Cleveland that you speak of, he was known to be vocal against gun ownership..... Keeping potential victims disarmed?

I am more than sure there are examples of where you live of sick, perverted, demented individuals.

And these individual when caught, should be tried, and if found guilty, executed in public.
FormerParatroope r

Dalton, GA

#107098 May 8, 2013
GunShow1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Go back to what works: An ARMED populace. That IS the ONLY Constitutional solution.
An armed populace is nothing I fear. Constitutionally we can still prosecute, sentence and even execute violent felons.
spocko

Oakland, CA

#107099 May 8, 2013
FormerParatrooper wrote:
<quoted text>
The point is, it is not people like me at the root of firearm violence.
It is better served we concentrate our efforts at the problem, criminals.
Chicago has seen an increase in firearm crime. The majority is gang violence. Yet Chicago has draconian gun laws, weak enforcement of gang activity, and the effort to hire "former" gang members to mentor the youth has failed.
Seems there is a better solution, but can we admit it is people at the blame?
Yes of course, but more specific it's people with guns ...

GunShow1

“Shall NOT be infringed!”

Since: Apr 13

San Jose, CA.

#107100 May 8, 2013
FormerParatrooper wrote:
<quoted text>
An armed populace is nothing I fear. Constitutionally we can still prosecute, sentence and even execute violent felons.
Indeed. But We The People can cut through a lot of legal red tape by executing them in the commission of the violent act. It is not only our RIGHT, but our DUTY.
spocko

Oakland, CA

#107101 May 8, 2013
GunShow1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's an EXTRA SPECIAL one just for >you<, traitor-troll:
"The section which declares that no law shall restrict the right of the people to bear arms, whether in defense of themselves or of the State, was read a second time.
"Mr. RARIDEN said he would like to know from the gentlemen who reported this section whether it was the intention to permit or prohibit the wearing of concealed weapons. He preferred the language of the old Constitution. He would move to strike out the section and insert the corresponding section of the old Constitution.
"Mr. OWEN said he would suggest to the gentleman from Wayne that if he wished to prohibit the carrying of weapons it would be necessary to change the language of the old Constitution. For if it were declared by Constitutional provision that the people should have the right to bear arms, no law of the Legislature could take away that right."
- Dec. 31, 1850, Afternoon Session.[REPORT OF THE DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS OF THE CONVENTION FOR THE REVISION OF THE CONSTITUTION THE STATE OF INDIANA. 1850. VOLUME II. H. FOWLER, OFFICIAL REPORTER TO THE CONVENTION. A.H. BROWN, PRINTER TO THE CONVENTION. INDIANAPOLIS, IND 1850.
Nice, ISN'T IT?
I will now repeat:
ALL 'gun control laws' are UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
And We The People are under NO obligation to obey them.
Our hired servants have been LYING to us. And have CONSPIRED to DEFRAUD us of our INALIENABLE NATURAL RIGHT. Which, in effect, is TREASON. For We The People are the SOVEREIGN AUTHORITY, and our Constitution is "THE SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND".
Basically then, when we take your guns away you'll assume the fetal position and squeal like a stuck pig eh?

GunShow1

“Shall NOT be infringed!”

Since: Apr 13

San Jose, CA.

#107102 May 8, 2013
spocko wrote:
<quoted text>
Basically then, when we take your guns away you'll assume the fetal position and squeal like a stuck pig eh?
Not quite. You had better bring a LOT of body bags, traitor-troll.
GoGoBar

Thailand

#107103 May 8, 2013
Police, Court, Prison, Execute etc... Just how many more people can be placed in prison. Justice is already the 2nd highest budgetry figure for States.

800,000 - 2.5 million DGU's per year.
Gary Kleck Policy Conclusions 1992

Despite substantial variation in gun control severity and gun ownership levels across U.S. cities, there is no evidence that these have any measurable impact on violence levels, although they do affect the frequency with which guns are used in some kinds of violence. On the other hand, the frequency with which guns are carried may have an impact on robbery which gun ownership levels do not, and gun ownership within special high-risk subsets of the population may have an impact on violence rates which general gun ownership levels do not.

Therefore, the significance of the few gun control measures found to be effective should not be overlooked. There is empirical support for some moderate gun controls. I favor a national "instant records check," which would screen for high-risk gun buyers similar to owner license and purchase permit systems, but without the delays and arbitrary administration which sometimes characterizes those controls. The system should cover nondealer transactions as well as dealer sales, and apply to rifles and shotguns, as well as handguns. Also, tighter licensing of gun dealers and increased enforcement of carry laws may be useful.

Gun control is a very minor, though not entirely irrelevant, part of the solution to the violence problem, just as guns are of only very minor significance as a cause of the problem. The U.S. has more violence than other nations for reasons unrelated to its extraordinarily high gun ownership. Fixating on guns seems to be, for many people, a fetish which allows them to ignore the more intransigent causes of American violence, including its dying cities, inequality, deteriorating family structure, and the all- pervasive economic and social consequences of a history of slavery and racism. And just as gun control serves this purpose for liberals, equally useless "get tough" proposals, like longer prison terms, mandatory sentencing, and more use of the death penalty serve the purpose for conservatives. All parties to the crime debate would do well to give more concentrated attention to more difficult, but far more relevant, issues like how to generate more good-paying jobs for the underclass which is at the heart of the violence problem

Since: Dec 10

Glandore, Australia

#107104 May 8, 2013
GunShow1 wrote:
<quoted text>
WRONG AGAIN troll. The VAST MAJORITY of criminals STEAL the weapons they use in crimes. And FBI data PROVES that most conclusively.
Show that proof!
FormerParatroope r

Dalton, GA

#107105 May 8, 2013
spocko wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes of course, but more specific it's people with guns ...
That is a generalization. Specific would be criminals with firearms.
Take our 3 highest areas of firearm violence, deduct them from our statistic, where do we fall in the world ranking of firearm violence? Hint, bottom 10th.
Chicago, Detroit and D.C. are our mass producing violence. Common problems, unemployment, single parents, underperforming schools and gangs. That is also a generalization, but it points to where the problems are. If guns were really the problem, why is it 99% of guns owned are not being used for violence?

Since: Dec 10

Glandore, Australia

#107106 May 8, 2013
FormerParatrooper wrote:
<quoted text>
This happens everywhere. It is not contained to one Country. There are sick and demented people everywhere. The pervert in Cleveland that you speak of, he was known to be vocal against gun ownership..... Keeping potential victims disarmed?
I am more than sure there are examples of where you live of sick, perverted, demented individuals.
And these individual when caught, should be tried, and if found guilty, executed in public.
What is this make accusation day and no backing it up?....where is the proof that this guy was against gun ownership and is that hearsay from all the neighbours and friends coming out of the woodwork(ugh Americans and their 5 minutes of fame) and now stating they heard noises and saw naked women in the backyard...yet did nothing for 10 feckin' years, you people are nukking futs? Wouldn't you think a guy in his position would want to own guns...and the yanks have a penchant for really backward thinkers where they have the right to do what ever they please regardless of the rights of others....

Since: Dec 10

Glandore, Australia

#107107 May 8, 2013
FormerParatrooper wrote:
<quoted text>
An armed populace is nothing I fear. Constitutionally we can still prosecute, sentence and even execute violent felons.
Yeah well you haven't been executing anyone for a while and since when do you gun owning looneys...support the law doing it's job...that's a twist.

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