It's the Guns, Stupid

It's the Guns, Stupid

There are 103299 comments on the Truthdig story from Apr 20, 2007, titled It's the Guns, Stupid. In it, Truthdig reports that:

“And that's the end of the issue”

Why do we have the same futile argument every time there is a mass killing? Advocates of gun control try to open a discussion about whether more reasonable weapons statutes might reduce the number of violent ... via Truthdig

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Truthdig.

“Evolved hunter/gatherer”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#106915 May 7, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok lets do that then.... What will Alaska lose under the governments gun control laws?...
What guns do they predominantly use in Alaska?
Do they use assault rifle's?
What specifically are they used for?
Can Alaska do without any of the guns mentioned on the gun control list.
What are the other concerns Alaska has with the government removing assault weapons...
Can Alaska and the government compromise on any of the guns on the list?
Now do you have any more reasons why this can't be discussed in an adult manner to achieve the goals that the government is aiming for, and to allow Alaskan's to have what they require to be safe and maintain their way of life? Next roadblock...
Are Alaskan's in favor of the introduction of background checks to include all gun sales outside retail?
If not state why?...
Simple.
"The right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
spocko

Oakland, CA

#106916 May 7, 2013
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>your the proven moron over & over again here on topix.
Gunloons have a great fear of society because everyone in it is a potential threat. As they like to say: Be polite be professional but have a plan to kill everyone you meet. The gun serves as the armor and differentiator, allowing the carrier to feel separate, above, and out of reach from society. The gun gives him an edge on the rest of the population; he’s afraid that without his edge, he can’t survive.

Oh I remember now, you’re the guy who keeps saying:“I’m gonna start blowing shit up because of Obama”!
Tray

Etta, MS

#106917 May 7, 2013
spocko wrote:
<quoted text>
If gun-control is so useless, according to you friggen gunloons, why then is it that not a single crime is ever committed with a machine gun – ever since they were outlawed in 1934 and 1986 respectively?
Officially, the last crime was a 1997 attempt to rob a bank in N. Hollywood, CA, two men in full body armor sprayed machine gun fire at police, using illegal machine guns.
According to Law Enforcement, the real deterrent for criminals to use machine guns is the registration with the Gov’t (yes the federal Gov’t has a machine gun registry) as well as a $200 tax. The restriction was meant to rein in tommy guns from the gangster days.
The tax was a purposely stifling amount back in the day, but it remains the same even now. If it were adjusted for inflation, it would equate to $3,436 today. Every year, there are slightly fewer machine guns circulating, so their price climbs. And with time, more collectors seek them. The price of an M16 before 1986 cost about $800. Now it goes for about $20,000.
The ATF keeps track of machine-gun owners. Owners cannot be felons, must be a U.S. citizen or legally residing in the United States. They also have to provide to authorities the exact address of the gun storage and owner and must be amenable to in-person visits by inspectors. A six-month waiting period is also a serious deterrent to criminals.
Hmmm. Only the law abiding follow laws. The North Hollywood shootout was an armed confrontation between two heavily armed and armored bank robbers and officers of the Los Angeles Police Department (LAPD) in the North Hollywood district of Los Angeles on February 28, 1997. Both robbers were killed, eleven police officers and seven civilians were injured, and numerous vehicles and other property were damaged or destroyed by the nearly 2,000 rounds of ammunition fired by the robbers and police.
An inventory of the weapons used: An AR-15 converted to fire automatically with two 100-round Beta Magazines, a semiautomatic HK-91 rifle with several 30-round magazines, a Beretta 92FS Inox with several magazines, and three different AK-47 rifles converted to fire in fully automatic mode with several 75 to 100-round drum magazines, as well as 30 round box magazines. Two of the AK-47s were later found to have been purchased by Phillips, and apparently converted by him as well using a bench drill to drill out the hole for the autosear pin (this allowed it to be fired in full auto). They had several full auto guns that were illegal and altered illegally. However, it was not possible for Phillips to legally purchase a firearm due to him being a convicted felon. Seven months after the incident, the Department of Defense gave 600 surplus M16s to the LAPD, which were issued to each patrol sergeant; other cities, such as Miami, also moved to supply patrol officers, not just SWAT teams, with heavier firepower. LAPD patrol vehicles now carry AR-15s as standard issue, with bullet-resistant Kevlar plating in their doors as well. Proven criminals can and do ignore laws and leave the law abiding defenseless. Police saw the need for better guns but deny them to law abiding citizens while criminals laugh at the stupidity.

“Evolved hunter/gatherer”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#106918 May 7, 2013
bantobacco wrote:
<quoted text>America is founded upon gun's.
.
Incorrect.
America is founded upon self evident truths and inalienable rights.
Inalienable rights are those which we are born with intact as part and parcel of our very beings. Just like any critter out there, we have a natural born right to self defense, and by extension, the inalienable right to keep and bear arms. Does anyone tell the orangutan he is not allowed to pick up a weapon when defending himself? Nope. Same thing.
Guns have been a part of that equation since the very beginning to be sure, and will remain so.

“Evolved hunter/gatherer”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#106919 May 7, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
Like you give a shit, you dumb troll you don't even care about the 26 kids killed in Sandy Hook enough to get rid of your guns....You care about the Africans?...since feckin' when?
Why would anyone who has guns that have NEVER committed a crime, especially the crimes in Sandy Hook, give them up?
You are devoid of logic and reason Aussie.

“Evolved hunter/gatherer”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#106920 May 7, 2013
GoGoBar wrote:
The UN investigating agencies have just released their findings into the use of Sarin Gas in Syria.12 hours ago.
It states that the evidence leads to it having been used by the opposition. Ie the sunnis. The conclusion would be that that they wish the US to arm them and supply a no free zone.
The Jews are trying to dictate to Obama.
What should he do?
Resign?

Since: Dec 10

Glandore, Australia

#106921 May 7, 2013
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>Australia is no little Island, Its a continent with a very large amount of natural resources that China needs and there again you are depending on the US and it armed civilians to protect the defenseless citizens of Australia that cant fight back and if China wants Australia they have the man power & capability and you people in Australia would be speaking Chinese and Japan was the same way prior who was in need of Resource and wanted Australia and everything else in the Pacific.
We depend on all our allies...mostly Britain and New Zealand, that is why they are called allies...Now in order to say that we can't fight back you don't know our history or our diggers...we have a strong track record of winning when being massively outnumbered and we don't massacre innoncent civilians or rape them like the yanks have done.....but the main point is that we are small and there are more resources around the islands in the South China Sea, if resources are what China is after? That is where they would look to.....Now give this some serious thought, if you have a want to become the next super power on the block...would you knock down the smallest kid in the yard, or would head for the biggest and ugliest and meanest.....that is you (America) my clueless friend,(sarcasm, Aussies have to make these things crystal, cause you are not the sharpest tools in the shed)else who on the block would take you seriously. SERIOUSLY!

Since: Dec 10

Glandore, Australia

#106922 May 7, 2013
GunShow1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Please, we have no desire to hear about your masturbation techniques.
Why not?....if you spent more time loving yourselves instead of hating so much you need to shoot each other you, would be a much more decent country.....
no different at all

Portage, MI

#106923 May 7, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
We depend on all our allies...mostly Britain and New Zealand, that is why they are called allies...Now in order to say that we can't fight back you don't know our history or our diggers...we have a strong track record of winning when being massively outnumbered and we don't massacre innoncent civilians or rape them like the yanks have done.....but the main point is that we are small and there are more resources around the islands in the South China Sea, if resources are what China is after? That is where they would look to.....Now give this some serious thought, if you have a want to become the next super power on the block...would you knock down the smallest kid in the yard, or would head for the biggest and ugliest and meanest.....that is you (America) my clueless friend,(sarcasm, Aussies have to make these things crystal, cause you are not the sharpest tools in the shed)else who on the block would take you seriously. SERIOUSLY!
, "the killing of unarmed Japanese was common" and Australian command tried to put pressure on troops to actually take prisoners, but the troops proved reluctant.[65] When prisoners were indeed taken "it often proved difficult to prevent them from killing captured Japanese before they could be interrogated".[66] According to Johnston, as a consequence of this type of behavior; "Some Japanese soldiers were almost certainly deterred from surrendering to Australians".[66]

Major General Paul Cullen indicated that the killing of Japanese prisoners in the Kokoda Track Campaign was not uncommon. In one instance he recalled during the battle at Gorari that "the leading platoon captured five or seven Japanese and moved on to the next battle. The next platoon came along and bayoneted these Japanese." [67] He also stated that he found the killings understandable but that it had left him feeling guilty.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_war_cri...

Since: Dec 10

Glandore, Australia

#106924 May 7, 2013
Armed Veteran wrote:
<quoted text>
Again, more deflection. When was the last time an automatic firearm was used in a crime???
Far be it for you yanks to extrapolate but there are clear difference between Yank speak and Aussie speak...we regard anything that isn't manually fired as an automatic, be it semi or fully etc.
Like your politics, you call Democrats socialists (people with a conscience) We call our Labor party (democrats)or the socialist party....now I have figured this out because I am an Australian and we are born with the smarts to extrapolate, rationalise and listen...it is so unfortunate for you that a yank who is not born with the smarts can't even be educated as they are not given enough intelligence to open a can of spam.

Since: Dec 10

Glandore, Australia

#106925 May 7, 2013
no different at all wrote:
<quoted text>
, "the killing of unarmed Japanese was common" and Australian command tried to put pressure on troops to actually take prisoners, but the troops proved reluctant.[65] When prisoners were indeed taken "it often proved difficult to prevent them from killing captured Japanese before they could be interrogated".[66] According to Johnston, as a consequence of this type of behavior; "Some Japanese soldiers were almost certainly deterred from surrendering to Australians".[66]
Major General Paul Cullen indicated that the killing of Japanese prisoners in the Kokoda Track Campaign was not uncommon. In one instance he recalled during the battle at Gorari that "the leading platoon captured five or seven Japanese and moved on to the next battle. The next platoon came along and bayoneted these Japanese." [67] He also stated that he found the killings understandable but that it had left him feeling guilty.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_war_cri...
Thank you for that information as I am aware of death of soldiers on both sides in war rather than the burden of them or simply for revenge and hate....but my post concentrated on innocents which every side declares should never be victims of troops even though it is war if it can be prevented or avoided... American soldiers have the worst track record of any allies in the wars fought of atrocities towards innocents ...... My lai is a perfect example of them disobeying the rules of civility held by every soldier in wartime.
no different at all

Portage, MI

#106926 May 7, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
Far be it for you yanks to extrapolate but there are clear difference between Yank speak and Aussie speak...we regard anything that isn't manually fired as an automatic, be it semi or fully etc.
Like your politics, you call Democrats socialists (people with a conscience) We call our Labor party (democrats)or the socialist party....now I have figured this out because I am an Australian and we are born with the smarts to extrapolate, rationalise and listen...it is so unfortunate for you that a yank who is not born with the smarts can't even be educated as they are not given enough intelligence to open a can of spam.
Nope, you're just plain wrong. No difference at all, a semi-auto rifle is a semi-auto, an automatic rifle is an automatic.

You were probably confused, because handguns are different. Not a difference in Yank speak or Aussie speak, but a difference in rifles and handguns. You see semi-auto handguns are in fact called automatics. Semi-auto rifles NEVER called auto by anyone except clueless idiots and morons who eat propaganda for breakfast and don't know the difference.

Since: Dec 10

Glandore, Australia

#106927 May 7, 2013
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>you realize California alone has more people than Australia, right besides better armed too compared to Australia.
OMG....you are trying to liken a country of 310 million people with a country with 22 million....you truly are an idiot.....and FYI, one of our diggers is equal to or better than ten of your soldiers, so 1000 per capita...we have less soldiers with more fighting prowess any day of the week, and they are humane.

Since: Dec 10

Glandore, Australia

#106928 May 7, 2013
Aquarius-WY wrote:
<quoted text>
Simple.
"The right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
No dummy you didn't answer the questions...it wasn't what law gives you the right to own guns....the question was WHAT will Alaska loose under gun control? no wriggling you snake in the grass...

Since: Dec 10

Glandore, Australia

#106929 May 7, 2013
Aquarius-WY wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would anyone who has guns that have NEVER committed a crime, especially the crimes in Sandy Hook, give them up?
You are devoid of logic and reason Aussie.
You dumb arse repetitive yankee drooling machine....you are not being asked to give up your guns....just the ones that serve no purpose save to make taking lives en mass as easy as falling off a log.....FFS!
no different at all

Portage, MI

#106930 May 7, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you for that information as I am aware of death of soldiers on both sides in war rather than the burden of them or simply for revenge and hate....but my post concentrated on innocents which every side declares should never be victims of troops even though it is war if it can be prevented or avoided... American soldiers have the worst track record of any allies in the wars fought of atrocities towards innocents ...... My lai is a perfect example of them disobeying the rules of civility held by every soldier in wartime.
I can post up recent cases of murder and rape involving Australian Defence Forces, some against their fellow female soldiers, some against civilians. I was about to do just that, but in actuality there's no real point. There are Aussies here that I do respect, and I also respect the troops of both nations, so i'd rather not throw mud at them just to piss in your cheerios.

Shit happens, sometimes very very bad shit happens, but to paint every soldier with the same brush is ignorance and bigotry. In actuality, the military is just a tiny version of society. Just as you have both intelligent and ignorant people in society, the military will also have those same people. Just as a society has rapists and killers, so will that society's military.

Now does Australia have rapists and killers? Yes, and so will it's military. So will every profession in that society, including the police who are supposed to protect us. To act like your society or your military would be immune from these people is simply insane.

Since: Dec 10

Glandore, Australia

#106931 May 7, 2013
no different at all wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope, you're just plain wrong. No difference at all, a semi-auto rifle is a semi-auto, an automatic rifle is an automatic.
You were probably confused, because handguns are different. Not a difference in Yank speak or Aussie speak, but a difference in rifles and handguns. You see semi-auto handguns are in fact called automatics. Semi-auto rifles NEVER called auto by anyone except clueless idiots and morons who eat propaganda for breakfast and don't know the difference.
OMG...Are we having a day for all Yankee stupids to come out of the closset...read my feckin' post again you noong and try just try and get it....sheesh you useless, dummy, retard, moron, idiot, dolt and clueless twit, did I miss any out....you would never know because you don't know HOW to read a feckin' post....dumb arse....Do I have your attention now Billy Bob...now go back and read...

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#106932 May 7, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
OMG....you are trying to liken a country of 310 million people with a country with 22 million....you truly are an idiot.....and FYI, one of our diggers is equal to or better than ten of your soldiers, so 1000 per capita...we have less soldiers with more fighting prowess any day of the week, and they are humane.
OMG you are truly an Idiot because you don't get the point.
no different at all

Portage, MI

#106933 May 7, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
OMG....you are trying to liken a country of 310 million people with a country with 22 million....you truly are an idiot.....and FYI, one of our diggers is equal to or better than ten of your soldiers, so 1000 per capita...we have less soldiers with more fighting prowess any day of the week, and they are humane.
I was a Marine, our reputation is known throughout the entire world. Tell me, Ahomana, were you ever in the service? You speak so highly of your diggers, what have you done for your nation personally? Kennedy gave the famous speech "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country"

Somehow you strike me as the "what can my country do for me" type of person.

Since: Dec 10

Glandore, Australia

#106934 May 7, 2013
no different at all wrote:
<quoted text>
I can post up recent cases of murder and rape involving Australian Defence Forces, some against their fellow female soldiers, some against civilians. I was about to do just that, but in actuality there's no real point. There are Aussies here that I do respect, and I also respect the troops of both nations, so i'd rather not throw mud at them just to piss in your cheerios.
Shit happens, sometimes very very bad shit happens, but to paint every soldier with the same brush is ignorance and bigotry. In actuality, the military is just a tiny version of society. Just as you have both intelligent and ignorant people in society, the military will also have those same people. Just as a society has rapists and killers, so will that society's military.
Now does Australia have rapists and killers? Yes, and so will it's military. So will every profession in that society, including the police who are supposed to protect us. To act like your society or your military would be immune from these people is simply insane.
Again I never stated that other allies were not involved in such things and I am aware of the cases that have been sighted...I said Americans have the worst track record of any of the allies in regards to attrocities against innocents in war time...I can also sight their peace time track record in attacks, murders and rapes committed by them in peace time especially those in Japan....Now would you care to dispute what was written rather than continually misconstrue the information to suit yourself?

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