It's the Guns, Stupid

Apr 20, 2007 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Truthdig

“And that's the end of the issue”

Why do we have the same futile argument every time there is a mass killing? Advocates of gun control try to open a discussion about whether more reasonable weapons statutes might reduce the number of violent ... via Truthdig

Comments
99,101 - 99,120 of 103,242 Comments Last updated Jun 22, 2014
Teaman

Mount Holly, NJ

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#106326
May 2, 2013
 
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
Not at all...I dispute statistic because I know they are bunkum....even the stataticians will tell you the same thing....but hey I am a realist...you are delusional else you wouldn't be a bible basher or a gun toter....I have live 62 years on this planet have driven all hours of the day and night for work and to take my kids to jobs etc, I have used public transport day and night....and I have never needed a gun nor have I ever been robbed threatened or accosted.....that's because I live in one, if not the most safest countries in the world, no guns...lucky me and my kids...they made it through school.
How does Australia address the use of psychotic drugs? I believe they are over prescribed here. Just about all of these mass shootings were perpetrated by someone on a psychotic drug or under a psychiatrist's care.
GoGoBar

Thailand

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#106328
May 2, 2013
 
Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
How does Australia address the use of psychotic drugs? I believe they are over prescribed here. Just about all of these mass shootings were perpetrated by someone on a psychotic drug or under a psychiatrist's care.
Why does the NRA oppose Doctors asking patients if they own firearma.Why is the simple database between prescribed drugs and gun ownership failed in the Senate.
Sounds logical to me.
You should lobby.

Oh, It is not so much of a problem in Australia because we have effective gun control.
Larry

Australia

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#106329
May 2, 2013
 
I say we make the laws even tighter than they are. There is scope for it.

Get rid of some of these gangs while we are at it. Good for bloody nothing. Pretty much the only ones causing trouble at times.

Some of these ethnic groups take a liking ti guns and drugs also, they want sorting out. And some of the overlooked ethnic groups are pretty good at importing a lot of drugs, dont overlook them either.
Larry

Australia

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#106330
May 2, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

1

This pig hunting is pretty barbaric, need to get onto that, some of them get pretty strange ideas from that. Using dogs to hold down the pig then stabbing it until it bleeds out. Bloody sick in the head some people.

Dont treat cattle or sheep like that not any animal. No bloody way.

A proper cull by a qualified marksman yes, but these lunnies getting on the booze shooting everything and getting off with sick acts of stabbing pigs is not something we want happening. A lot of them end up using the gun to threaten people. It can be a different world up north with some of the roughies.

A lot of people up north are not roughies, but some are..
Teaman

Mount Holly, NJ

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#106331
May 2, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

1

GoGoBar wrote:
<quoted text>
Why does the NRA oppose Doctors asking patients if they own firearma.Why is the simple database between prescribed drugs and gun ownership failed in the Senate.
Sounds logical to me.
You should lobby.
Oh, It is not so much of a problem in Australia because we have effective gun control.
We have gun control also, more or less, depending on which state you're in. A legal problem concerning a doctor patient privilege arises when such a data base is suggested. Some states have laws preventing such information concerning mental health from entering any government data base.

I suppose that will change after time when more and more people are willing to surrender their rights to privacy and government searches without warrant in turn for a government socialized healthcare system.
FormerParatroope r

Mishawaka, IN

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#106332
May 2, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

1

Larry wrote:
<quoted text> you really think you are going to convince everyone in America to be good boys and girls with their guns. You think that is going to work?
Seriously?
You actually believe that you are going to get every single person in America doing the right thing?
No accidents, no murders, no mass shootings, no threatening?
In Australia people still smoke cigarette, we know ich its bad for healt.h and causes lung cancer, but some people still disagree and orchoose ti smoke.
cigarette s cause lung cancer, intelligent people know that. Some people still disagree. Not many people smoke in Australia now,they ate a dieing breed. Most people realuse it is bad for health, but the biggest ffactor in reducing smoking has come from government action directly addressing the problem and most people understand, they co operate and we get somethinf done and get results.
Guns no different. Problem identified, coopetation, we got something done.
I see the mighty cigarette as no differwnt to the gun.
Its not the cigarette its the person wearing shoes that lights the smoke. You might say.
Its not the gun, its the person you might say.
Well I m here to tell you
It is the cigarette
It is the gun
We reduced lung cancer deaths
We recuced shooting deaths
There is a difference between smoking and committing a crime. While both are choices, only one is unlawful.
Reduce the amount of criminals, reduce crime.
If it were the fault of the gun, there would be more crime. Yet 99% of all gun owners do not commit crime. It is the person
GoGoBar

Thailand

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#106333
May 2, 2013
 

Judged:

2

2

2

Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
We have gun control also, more or less, depending on which state you're in. A legal problem concerning a doctor patient privilege arises when such a data base is suggested. Some states have laws preventing such information concerning mental health from entering any government data base.
I suppose that will change after time when more and more people are willing to surrender their rights to privacy and government searches without warrant in turn for a government socialized healthcare system.
It probaly wouldnt be so much of a problem if it wasnt for the extreme saturations of guns.

Not a problem in the rest of the Advanced Nations. National Laws etc..

Is what you are saying is that the US is up poo creek without a paddle with regards to guns, and the future looks even worse because any idiot can get a gun and in the future there will be twice as many guns as citizens. And that the shootiungs may cripple your health system?

The rest of the advanced nations dont have these "EWarrants"

Must be the guns I expect.

It is all a question of balance, or paranoia.
Teaman

Mount Holly, NJ

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#106334
May 2, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

1

GoGoBar wrote:
<quoted text>
It probaly wouldnt be so much of a problem if it wasnt for the extreme saturations of guns.
Not a problem in the rest of the Advanced Nations. National Laws etc..
Is what you are saying is that the US is up poo creek without a paddle with regards to guns, and the future looks even worse because any idiot can get a gun and in the future there will be twice as many guns as citizens. And that the shootiungs may cripple your health system?
The rest of the advanced nations dont have these "EWarrants"
Must be the guns I expect.
It is all a question of balance, or paranoia.
Most of the rest of the world don't have the same social freedoms either. One faces legal prosecution in Germany for home schooling for one example.

The healthcare system is burdened by gang shootings. These are people who can't legally own a gun. Laws don't seem to prevent these gang members from obtaining a gun. Gangs that distribute drugs will always have guns because the guns will always be smuggled along with the drugs.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#106335
May 2, 2013
 
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry you must face the facts statistics are only a guide they are never accurate...ever...so use them if you must but they hold no credibility with me or those who know their value...which is nil....
so now your discrediting you own posted facts.
Teaman

Mount Holly, NJ

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#106336
May 2, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

1

GoGoBar wrote:
<quoted text>
You see the trick is balance.
There is crime and there is violent crime.
The USA leads the advanced nations in violent crime. People get hurt. And with guns seriously.
Despite having the worlds largest prison population denied their liberty, the US is still the most violent nation in the Advanced Nations.
Despite having the most guns the US has the most people in prison and the most violence.
Then those people get out of prison.
It may be a hangover from having a Radical Religious group found the colony. Puritanical. Could be because the US elects their law enforcement officials with promises of getting tough on crime and penalties.
It could be the conclusions reached by Gary Kleck, the NRA pin up boy who Estimated that between 800,000 and 2,500,000 DGU's occurred each year. Why the variation. Sloppy work.
These are his conclusions.
Despite substantial variation in gun control severity and gun ownership levels across U.S. cities, there is no evidence that these have any measurable impact on violence levels, although they do affect the frequency with which guns are used in some kinds of violence. On the other hand, the frequency with which guns are carried may have an impact on robbery which gun ownership levels do not, and gun ownership within special high-risk subsets of the population may have an impact on violence rates which general gun ownership levels do not.
Therefore, the significance of the few gun control measures found to be effective should not be overlooked. There is empirical support for some moderate gun controls. I favor a national "instant records check," which would screen for high-risk gun buyers similar to owner license and purchase permit systems, but without the delays and arbitrary administration which sometimes characterizes those controls. The system should cover nondealer transactions as well as dealer sales, and apply to rifles and shotguns, as well as handguns. Also, tighter licensing of gun dealers and increased enforcement of carry laws may be useful.
Gun control is a very minor, though not entirely irrelevant, part of the solution to the violence problem, just as guns are of only very minor significance as a cause of the problem. The U.S. has more violence than other nations for reasons unrelated to its extraordinarily high gun ownership. Fixating on guns seems to be, for many people, a fetish which allows them to ignore the more intransigent causes of American violence, including its dying cities, inequality, deteriorating family structure, and the all- pervasive economic and social consequences of a history of slavery and racism. And just as gun control serves this purpose for liberals, equally useless "get tough" proposals, like longer prison terms, mandatory sentencing, and more use of the death penalty serve the purpose for conservatives. All parties to the crime debate would do well to give more concentrated attention to more difficult, but far more relevant, issues like how to generate more good-paying jobs for the underclass which is at the heart of the violence problem
He never bothered with Murder levels or Mass Shootings.
The researchers are working on that now.
Having to imprison such a large number of violent gunnuts raises the serious question of what happens when they get out.
Although I agree with the breakdown of the family and society in general, the consequences of a racist history is usually self imposed. Civil rights has been hijacked by socialists for quite some time.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#106337
May 2, 2013
 
GoGoBar wrote:
<quoted text>
Why does the NRA oppose Doctors asking patients if they own firearma.Why is the simple database between prescribed drugs and gun ownership failed in the Senate.
Sounds logical to me.
You should lobby.
Oh, It is not so much of a problem in Australia because we have effective gun control.
Obamacare or The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act opposes it and Democrat Harry Reid Senate Majority Leader placed it in Obamacare.

Hah! Obamacare Provision Forbids Democrats From Restricting Guns and Ammo

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/01/hah-o...
GoGoBar

Thailand

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#106338
May 2, 2013
 
Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
Most of the rest of the world don't have the same social freedoms either. One faces legal prosecution in Germany for home schooling for one example.
The healthcare system is burdened by gang shootings. These are people who can't legally own a gun. Laws don't seem to prevent these gang members from obtaining a gun. Gangs that distribute drugs will always have guns because the guns will always be smuggled along with the drugs.
At least you agree that the burden is the guns. There is more Taliban Heroine in Europe than you can poke a Ar15 at. Well that is wrong because they are not that stupid to give access to any drug dealer.

So why dont Eurpopeans have the same gang gun killings as the US.
Or indeed 7 x less overall murders with the Heroine and Meth problems they face.
Is it the guns?
Good Aussies

Germany

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#106339
May 2, 2013
 
GoGoBar wrote:
<quoted text>
At least you agree that the burden is the guns. There is more Taliban Heroine in Europe than you can poke a Ar15 at. Well that is wrong because they are not that stupid to give access to any drug dealer.
So why dont Eurpopeans have the same gang gun killings as the US.
Or indeed 7 x less overall murders with the Heroine and Meth problems they face.
Is it the guns?
No, it's the blacks. Huge numbers of blacks deal drugs and murder people, way over the average.

Add a culture of violence and gender bending confusion created by hollywood jew brainwashing media and brain addling legalised psychotropic drugs pushed by big pharma and whammo, there's your problem.

It's not the guns, stupid.
GoGoBar

Thailand

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#106340
May 2, 2013
 
Good Aussies wrote:
<quoted text>
No, it's the blacks. Huge numbers of blacks deal drugs and murder people, way over the average.
Add a culture of violence and gender bending confusion created by hollywood jew brainwashing media and brain addling legalised psychotropic drugs pushed by big pharma and whammo, there's your problem.
It's not the guns, stupid.
My God! I forgot.

Then why does the US devote the majority of their Military to defend the Israelites.
Surely the Blacks have been in the USA longer than the white peasant immigrants. They havent been snuck in on Jew submarines lately.
But you fail to mention the guns/ LOL/

Yours is the best post yet.

Apart from any of mine.

“Shall NOT be infringed!”

Since: Apr 13

San Jose, CA.

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#106341
May 2, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

Larry wrote:
<quoted text>
You have a point mate, I think some Aussies dont realise that America does a lot of good in the world.
Every American I ve met in Australia has been a perfect tourist/ migrant.
The problem lies in their own country with a few that are stuck in their ways with the guns.
We only like change here if we see potential for improvement . Sometimes though without acknowledging need for change, no possibility exists for improvement.
And when it come to a good old cup of tea, I myself never have sugar. Sweet enough. With a good drop of milk you dont need it.
There will ALWAYS be those with evil intentions. That is a FACT found ALL throughout the history of mankind. And they will DEFINITELY take advantage of an unarmed population. As a lion or wolf does with shepperd-less sheep. Mr. Thomas Paine spelled it out quite succinctly here:

"These people are either too superstitiously religious, or too cowardly for arms; they either can not or dare not defend ; their property is open to anyone who has the courage to attack them... The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand, arms, like law, discourage and keep the invader and the plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. The balance of power is the scale of peace. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside. And while a single nation refuses to lay them down, it is proper that all should keep them up. Horrid mischief would ensue were one-half the world deprived of the use of them; for while avarice and ambition have a place in the heart of man, the weak will become a prey to the strong. The history of every age and nation establishes these truths, and facts need but little arguments when they prove themselves."--Thomas Paine, "Thoughts on Defensive War" in Pennsylvania Magazine (July 1775); signed "A Lover Of Peace".
GoGoBar

Thailand

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#106342
May 2, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

1

If I were to change to pro gun, I would win hands down.
You losers just cant see the debateable statistics and real life records staring you in the face.
Pathetic really, when you consider all you had to do was do some research.
Still. I have hope for one of you.
Want to know the rest? Hey, Buy the Rights.
FYI

Denver, CO

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#106343
May 2, 2013
 
Code word "CLICK" Regards
British people are Jews

Crna Gora, Montenegro

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#106344
May 2, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

1

I hope North Korea NUKE America....LOL

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#106345
May 2, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

1

GoGoBar wrote:
If I were to change to pro gun, I would win hands down.
You losers just cant see the debateable statistics and real life records staring you in the face.
Pathetic really, when you consider all you had to do was do some research.
Still. I have hope for one of you.
Want to know the rest? Hey, Buy the Rights.
you want to look and post about Debatable Statistics just use Chicago Illinois where guns have been banned for years just like Australia and why crime has thrived so well in Chicago Illinois and you would be pro gun too and was the reason behind the SCOTUS case of McDonald v Chicago.

CHICAGO ó Not a single gun shop can be found in Chicago because they are outlawed. Handguns were banned in Chicago for decades, too, until 2010, when the United States Supreme Court ruled that was going too far, leading city leaders to settle for restrictions some describe as the closest they could get legally to a ban without a ban. Despite a continuing legal fight, Illinois remains the only state in the nation with no provision to let private citizens carry guns in public.

And yet Chicago, a city with no civilian gun ranges and bans on both assault weapons and high-capacity magazines, finds itself laboring to stem a flood of gun violence that contributed to more than 500 homicides last year and at least 40 killings already in 2013.

Strict Gun Laws in Chicago Canít Stem Fatal Shots

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/30/us/strict-c... ;

McDonald v. Chicago

McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 3025 (2010), is a landmark decision of the Supreme Court of the United States that determined whether the Second Amendment applies to the individual states. The Court held that the right of an individual to "keep and bear arms" protected by the Second Amendment is incorporated by the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment and applies to the states. The decision cleared up the uncertainty left in the wake of District of Columbia v. Heller as to the scope of gun rights in regard to the states.

The Cause

In McDonald v. City of Chicago, 561 U.S. 3025, 130 S.Ct. 3020, 177 L.Ed.2nd 894 (2010), Chicago resident Otis McDonald, a 76 year old (in 2010) retired maintenance engineer, had lived in the Morgan Park neighborhood since buying a house there in 1971. McDonald decried the decline of his neighborhood, describing it as being taken over by gangs and drug dealers. His lawn was regularly littered with refuse and his home and garage had been broken into a combined five times, with the most recent robbery committed by a man McDonald recognized from his own neighborhood. An experienced hunter, McDonald legally owned shotguns, but believed them too unwieldy in the event of a robbery, and wanted to purchase a handgun for personal home defense. Due to Chicago's requirement that all firearms in the city be registered, yet refusing all handgun registrations after 1982 when a citywide handgun ban was passed, he was unable to legally own a handgun. As a result, in 2008, he joined three other Chicago residents in filing a lawsuit which became McDonald v. Chicago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald_v._Chic...
FYI

Denver, CO

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#106346
May 2, 2013
 
British people are Jews wrote:
I hope North Korea NUKE America....LOL
" BANG" Got ya, Regards

Tell me when this thread is updated: (Registration is not required)

Add to my Tracker Send me an email

Type in your comments below
Name
(appears on your post)
Comments
Characters left: 4000
Type the numbers you see in the image on the right:

Please note by clicking on "Post Comment" you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

•••
•••