It's the Guns, Stupid

Apr 20, 2007 Full story: Truthdig 103,368

“And that's the end of the issue”

Why do we have the same futile argument every time there is a mass killing? Advocates of gun control try to open a discussion about whether more reasonable weapons statutes might reduce the number of violent ... via Truthdig

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British people are Jews

Crna Gora, Montenegro

#106344 May 2, 2013
I hope North Korea NUKE America....LOL

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#106345 May 2, 2013
GoGoBar wrote:
If I were to change to pro gun, I would win hands down.
You losers just cant see the debateable statistics and real life records staring you in the face.
Pathetic really, when you consider all you had to do was do some research.
Still. I have hope for one of you.
Want to know the rest? Hey, Buy the Rights.
you want to look and post about Debatable Statistics just use Chicago Illinois where guns have been banned for years just like Australia and why crime has thrived so well in Chicago Illinois and you would be pro gun too and was the reason behind the SCOTUS case of McDonald v Chicago.

CHICAGO ó Not a single gun shop can be found in Chicago because they are outlawed. Handguns were banned in Chicago for decades, too, until 2010, when the United States Supreme Court ruled that was going too far, leading city leaders to settle for restrictions some describe as the closest they could get legally to a ban without a ban. Despite a continuing legal fight, Illinois remains the only state in the nation with no provision to let private citizens carry guns in public.

And yet Chicago, a city with no civilian gun ranges and bans on both assault weapons and high-capacity magazines, finds itself laboring to stem a flood of gun violence that contributed to more than 500 homicides last year and at least 40 killings already in 2013.

Strict Gun Laws in Chicago Canít Stem Fatal Shots

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/30/us/strict-c... ;

McDonald v. Chicago

McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 3025 (2010), is a landmark decision of the Supreme Court of the United States that determined whether the Second Amendment applies to the individual states. The Court held that the right of an individual to "keep and bear arms" protected by the Second Amendment is incorporated by the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment and applies to the states. The decision cleared up the uncertainty left in the wake of District of Columbia v. Heller as to the scope of gun rights in regard to the states.

The Cause

In McDonald v. City of Chicago, 561 U.S. 3025, 130 S.Ct. 3020, 177 L.Ed.2nd 894 (2010), Chicago resident Otis McDonald, a 76 year old (in 2010) retired maintenance engineer, had lived in the Morgan Park neighborhood since buying a house there in 1971. McDonald decried the decline of his neighborhood, describing it as being taken over by gangs and drug dealers. His lawn was regularly littered with refuse and his home and garage had been broken into a combined five times, with the most recent robbery committed by a man McDonald recognized from his own neighborhood. An experienced hunter, McDonald legally owned shotguns, but believed them too unwieldy in the event of a robbery, and wanted to purchase a handgun for personal home defense. Due to Chicago's requirement that all firearms in the city be registered, yet refusing all handgun registrations after 1982 when a citywide handgun ban was passed, he was unable to legally own a handgun. As a result, in 2008, he joined three other Chicago residents in filing a lawsuit which became McDonald v. Chicago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald_v._Chic...
FYI

Arvada, CO

#106346 May 2, 2013
British people are Jews wrote:
I hope North Korea NUKE America....LOL
" BANG" Got ya, Regards
Teaman

Mount Holly, NJ

#106347 May 2, 2013
GoGoBar wrote:
<quoted text>
At least you agree that the burden is the guns. There is more Taliban Heroine in Europe than you can poke a Ar15 at. Well that is wrong because they are not that stupid to give access to any drug dealer.
So why dont Eurpopeans have the same gang gun killings as the US.
Or indeed 7 x less overall murders with the Heroine and Meth problems they face.
Is it the guns?
I never agreed that guns were the burden. A societal breakdown is the problem. The left seems to be behind every breakdown there is. Now, they want to remove a symptom of a disease they created.

I don't think Europe has the same ethnic breakdown as the US.
Teaman

Mount Holly, NJ

#106348 May 2, 2013
British people are Jews wrote:
I hope North Korea NUKE America....LOL
Awh, what happened? You sided with the Serbs and lost? LOL
spocko

Oakland, CA

#106349 May 2, 2013
Tray wrote:
<quoted text> Where is that gun convicted of rape? Still waiting.
So sorry for your wait ... you are actually waiting for a gun to rape you?
spocko

Oakland, CA

#106350 May 2, 2013
Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
I never agreed that guns were the burden. A societal breakdown is the problem. The left seems to be behind every breakdown there is. Now, they want to remove a symptom of a disease they created.
I don't think Europe has the same ethnic breakdown as the US.
Radical progressives gave us the constitution; hysterical right wingers gave us Hiroshima!
Teaman

Mount Holly, NJ

#106351 May 2, 2013
spocko wrote:
<quoted text>
Radical progressives gave us the constitution; hysterical right wingers gave us Hiroshima!
Our founders were radical alright. They were against big oppressive, forceful, imposing governments of the day. Progressives are not. They expand the scope and power of government.

FDR was a hysterical right winger? LOL What history book are you reading?

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#106352 May 2, 2013
Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
How does Australia address the use of psychotic drugs? I believe they are over prescribed here. Just about all of these mass shootings were perpetrated by someone on a psychotic drug or under a psychiatrist's care.
Like always we tend to follow the example of the Americans....the drugs for children supposedly diagnosed with ADHD or ADD were being massively over prescribed and wrongly diagnosed in a lot of cases...I put this down to ignorant heath professionals and the pharmaceutical companies..same goes with antibiotics Phschychotic drugs...especially since a medical report, which came out a few months back stated that most made no difference to the mental health of certain illnesses that they're prescribe for....So yes, we are turning into a nation of quick fix legally prescribed druggies....happiness now comes in a pill and doctors, the tax department and the drug companies are the winners.

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#106353 May 2, 2013
Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
Our founders were radical alright. They were against big oppressive, forceful, imposing governments of the day. Progressives are not. They expand the scope and power of government.
FDR was a hysterical right winger? LOL What history book are you reading?
What would you call the NRA then Teaman?

“Shall NOT be infringed!”

Since: Apr 13

San Jose, CA.

#106354 May 2, 2013
Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
Our founders were radical alright. They were against big oppressive, forceful, imposing governments of the day. Progressives are not. They expand the scope and power of government.
FDR was a hysterical right winger? LOL What history book are you reading?
He and his ilk read the LIE-beral version.

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#106355 May 2, 2013
Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
We have gun control also, more or less, depending on which state you're in. A legal problem concerning a doctor patient privilege arises when such a data base is suggested. Some states have laws preventing such information concerning mental health from entering any government data base.
I suppose that will change after time when more and more people are willing to surrender their rights to privacy and government searches without warrant in turn for a government socialized healthcare system.
You cannot call what you have gun control Teaman...in order for it to be affective all states, territories etc must get on board...it is good that some have started but they are fighting an uphill battle in a country where most states are still lax and free with their gun laws....:)

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#106356 May 2, 2013
Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
Most of the rest of the world don't have the same social freedoms either. One faces legal prosecution in Germany for home schooling for one example.
The healthcare system is burdened by gang shootings. These are people who can't legally own a gun. Laws don't seem to prevent these gang members from obtaining a gun. Gangs that distribute drugs will always have guns because the guns will always be smuggled along with the drugs.
So it is not the guns or the crims...so go to the source...there is a source these guns don't come out of nowhere they come from gun manufacturers follow their supplies to the customer....it isn't rocket science...And if some moron says they are stolen...It is impossible that the majority aren't bartered legally...if there were such a huge racket for gun stealing it would be easy to spot it....so it is leaving the floor legally...and then what?

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#106358 May 2, 2013
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>so now your discrediting you own posted facts.
Just giving you a taste of your own medicine...anyone can pull statistics out to back up an argument, the difference is I know they don't, idiots like you keep using them and the only thing you understand is if someone one ups your argument with statistics...and it is all bunkum...If it wasn't the NRA wouldn't catch so many of you losers with them...

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#106359 May 2, 2013
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>you don't like the facts that are true and want to keep denying them besides just look at the suicide rate in Australia compared to the US and you Australians kept posting that after the guns were banned it went down but it is still higher than the US who allows their citizen to possess guns so it proves guns were not the problem for Australia's suicide rate or extremely higher then.
http://www.nationmaster.com/compare/Australia...
Our suicide rate has been in decline since gun control...It is lower than the US and the reason again you can't provide statistics to prove or disprove this is because a person intent on committing suicide might do it by making it look like an accident or go in and shoot up a school and get killed by law enforcement...can you see why you can't get an accurate account with statistics...they can only prove the ones that look like suicide and some of them have proved to be murder you noong...here suck on these statistics seeing you are so hell bent on using them dummy..looks like you rate of suicide is higher than Australia's here...go figure...sheesh.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countrie...
America at 19.5 Australia are at 14.9 that means you are wrong again....if you believe such shite.
And in all of our statistics suicide has steadily declined since gun control....you tit..
GoGoBar

Thailand

#106360 May 2, 2013
Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
Our founders were radical alright. They were against big oppressive, forceful, imposing governments of the day. Progressives are not. They expand the scope and power of government.
FDR was a hysterical right winger? LOL What history book are you reading?
FDR died well before the decision to nuke Japan.
Most historians agree that he would not have given the order.

I dont see any radical gun bearing founders sons fighting the new "Monarchy" in Washington. Just a call for the Federal Govt. to supply more armed guards to stop gunnuts massacreing people.
EuroBoy

Sweden

#106361 May 2, 2013
GoGoBar wrote:
<quoted text>
FDR died well before the decision to nuke Japan.
Most historians agree that he would not have given the order.
I dont see any radical gun bearing founders sons fighting the new "Monarchy" in Washington. Just a call for the Federal Govt. to supply more armed guards to stop gunnuts massacreing people.
So sayeth GoGoBar the pedophile
Larry

Australia

#106362 May 2, 2013
FormerParatrooper wrote:
<quoted text>
There is a difference between smoking and committing a crime. While both are choices, only one is unlawful.
Reduce the amount of criminals, reduce crime.
If it were the fault of the gun, there would be more crime. Yet 99% of all gun owners do not commit crime. It is the person
People take up smoking every day

People take up crime every day

The cigarette causes lung cancer

The bullet causes a shooting death.
Larry

Australia

#106363 May 2, 2013
Without the cigarette there is no lung cancer.

Without the gun there is no shooting deaths.

There will always be people who dont care for their health.

There will always be people who resort to crime.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#106364 May 2, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
Just giving you a taste of your own medicine...anyone can pull statistics out to back up an argument, the difference is I know they don't, idiots like you keep using them and the only thing you understand is if someone one ups your argument with statistics...and it is all bunkum...If it wasn't the NRA wouldn't catch so many of you losers with them...
you are not giving me any medicines its idiots like you know those statistics are are true and Chicago Illinois is proof and you would deny those statistics about Chicago Illinois too.

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