It's the Guns, Stupid

Apr 20, 2007 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Truthdig

“And that's the end of the issue”

Why do we have the same futile argument every time there is a mass killing? Advocates of gun control try to open a discussion about whether more reasonable weapons statutes might reduce the number of violent ... via Truthdig

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98,761 - 98,780 of 103,225 Comments Last updated Jun 22, 2014
Larry

Australia

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#105951
Apr 29, 2013
 
Tray wrote:
<quoted text> But you already had a low mass shooting rate. Again the suicide rate has been PROVEN not to be based on method. that is from hundreds of studies world wide. It is a lie to continue to try to use that. Once again I can claim 99.9% of criminals wear shes but it would be linked to criminal behavior. So here is two claims repeated by you that are proven to be dead end reasoning. Why do you keep repeating it? Are you expecting people to buy it if you repeat it enough? "All propaganda has to be popular and has to accommodate itself to the comprehension of the least intelligent of those whom it seeks to reach". "If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed."
Adolf Hitler
Adolf Hitler
your criminals wear shes? Is that like a titty? Here we had this girl with big boobs that held up a servo with a knife, yeah she got time in jail. Wasnt hard to track her down, biggest tits in the town!
Larry

Australia

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#105952
Apr 29, 2013
 
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>Texas murders 221
Australia murders 1122
Both Jurisdictions 22 million people.
see anybody can post & make numbers up without backing them up without links to backup those statics numbers LOL.
AUSTRALIA: MORE VIOLENT CRIME DESPITE GUN BAN
It is a common fantasy that gun bans make society safer. In 2002 -- five years after enacting its gun ban -- the Australian Bureau of Criminology acknowledged there is no correlation between gun control and the use of firearms in violent crime. In fact, the percent of murders committed with a firearm was the highest it had ever been in 2006 (16.3 percent), says the D.C. Examiner.
Even Australia's Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research acknowledges that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime:
http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/...
so you wont mind me correcting you,,221 for Aust much higher for Texas.
GoGoBar

Thailand

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#105953
Apr 29, 2013
 

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Larry wrote:
<quoted text> your criminals wear shes? Is that like a titty? Here we had this girl with big boobs that held up a servo with a knife, yeah she got time in jail. Wasnt hard to track her down, biggest tits in the town!
LOL. He began as Trayvon for trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman.
Sa,me mentality as George.
Take a gun to a fistfight.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

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#105954
Apr 29, 2013
 
Larry wrote:
<quoted text> so you wont mind me correcting you,,221 for Aust much higher for Texas.
those numbers are considered bogus without a link to back them up is the point.

“Shall NOT be infringed!”

Since: Apr 13

San Jose, CA.

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#105955
Apr 29, 2013
 
"It is expressly provided in the Constitution of the United States, that the States may provide for their own defence in times of imminent danger. We are bound by that Constitution and we have a right to defend ourselves in the way that is reserved in the Constitution of the United States; that is left to every State in the Union, unrestricted and in full force. He knew that the people of the United States had reserved the right of self defence; but the States have given up the right to keep ships of war or troops in time of peace. What he had said he took from the book, and he had not gone beyond that. The right of preparing for war is exclusively reserved to the Government of the United States, and the States cannot, for their own defence, keep ships of war or troops in time of peace. Now for the qualification of these remarks, he would refer to the amendment to the Constitution which had already been read as follows: "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." Why this was intended to convey to individuals certain personal rights. This is a personal right reserved to individuals to bear arms; this was adopted to grant to every man the shield of self defence."

- Mr. Walter Forward, Oct. 3, 1837 Pennsylvania Constitutional Convention.[THE CONVENTION OF THE COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA TO PROPOSE AMENDMENTS TO THE CONSTITUTION COMMENCED AT HARRISBURG MAY 2 1837, VOL IV. Pages 96-97]. Mr. Forward,(January 24, 1786 November 24, 1852), was an American lawyer and politician. Elected to the 17th Congress in 1822, and reelected to the 18th Congress. He was appointed on March 6, 1841 by President William Henry Harrison to be First Comptroller of the Treasury. Served in that post until September 13, 1841. And was then appointed 15th U.S. Secretary of the Treasury by President John Tyler).
Teaman

Mount Holly, NJ

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#105956
Apr 29, 2013
 

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GoGoBar wrote:
Rates of Violent Crime
USA 2250/100K
UK 2050/100K
Aust 1050/100/K
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv11.pdf
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/crime-stats/cri ...
http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/current%20 ...
The USA has a slightly higher rate of sexual assault due to use of firearms(3%) which equals 7500 gun rapes per year.
You might want to compare California to Texas. Their population is similar and murder rate is similar. One has very lenient gun laws, the other has very strict gun laws. You might want to ask yourself what it is both states have in common that causes similar murder rates with very different gun laws.

You always avoid that one.
Tray

Tupelo, MS

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#105959
Apr 29, 2013
 

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Larry wrote:
<quoted text> so we are going to believe the 800,% Increase 200%increase etc etc .
We have not had another mass shooting like port arthur 35 dead. we have?
ok then, because there were no referemces at all provided for the bullshit stats.
Here is a bit of research you might be more familiar with .(.in 2010 the American journel of law and economics found that the Australia had cut fire arms suicides by 74 % saving 200 lives per year.)
is this a made up statistic?
Wow you just don't stop. "Firearms suicides" but left out suicides committed by other means. As before I have shown that to be a lie.
Tray

Tupelo, MS

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#105960
Apr 29, 2013
 
GoGoBar wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL. Then how come less than 800,000 kill more than 100,000 million?
HAHAHAHA. 2,500,000 for 225. Good odds. Against 350,000 violent gunnuts.
HAHAHAHA
350,000 gun violent crimes per year.
225 self defense homicides per year
HAHAHAHAHAHA.
I wouldnt laugh if there were 4000 self defence per year.
The cops only kill 370 per year anmd they are at every crime.!
Where do you get "350,000"? It is still a long way from 2,500,000 self defense uses. Your numbers show armed citizens use guns for self defense more than cops yet kill fewer criminals than cops. Thanks for helping make the case to disarm cops and arm citizens.
Tray

Tupelo, MS

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#105961
Apr 29, 2013
 
Larry wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok I ll give you.that different mix of ethnicities, density of population and maybe some other factor of stress all play a role in the huge difference in gun crime between the USA and Australia, but does that account for 15 times higher rates of shooting deaths.
Not twice, not three times, 15... And these mass shootings, how many more are does it take? we havent had any in Australia because the laws are so strict on guns.
Can you back that claim with documented research, or is that just your opinion? Once again I can document the wearing of shoes involved in criminal actions but that does not prove shoes played any role in the criminal action. Realistically there are countries with much much higher murders than the U.S. but much less gun ownership. In fact our crime rate has been dropping for 10 years even though gun numbers increase. That in it's self blows your entire argument away. As far as mass shootings compared to other murder rates in they are extremely minimal. As shown to you before more are killed by bare hands than the dreaded "assault weapon". I know you want to believe what you've been told but most of it is just twisting of facts. or in layman terms, LIES.
Tray

Tupelo, MS

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#105962
Apr 29, 2013
 
GoGoBar wrote:
Texas murders 1122
Australia murders 221
Both Jurisdictions 22 million people.
Who has the guns. LOL.
You forgot to mention those Texas murders mostly are blamed on criminals from Mexico crossing the boarder to commit crime. Australia not having a boarder with a highly violent society does not have that same right to claim a comparison. Apples to oranges. Another attempt to twist facts shown to be a lie. Can't you defend your stance with real facts instead of twisted propaganda? Sad sad sad.
Tray

Tupelo, MS

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#105963
Apr 29, 2013
 
Larry wrote:
The statics are that when gun ownership rates dropped after the buyback and strict new measures were put on place we did not see any more mass shootings, suicide rate dropped significantly and the rate of gun related deaths also has dropped significantly.
Deaths by other meathods have not increased.
This is not my opinion but well known fact.
Every murder or suicide is recorded as a statistic, there is no conspiracy by the government, people wanted this, even people that hated the PM thought it was a good idea! The whole country acted.
WOW the government passes a law then defends it with numbers that fit there claim, BUT without showing other issues and actions that led to these numbers. Economic improvement along with other social changes were more likely the reason for the numbers but that would not advance their agenda. Even your own government research admits gun control had little to do with crime rates.

“Shall NOT be infringed!”

Since: Apr 13

San Jose, CA.

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#105964
Apr 29, 2013
 

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"...Baldwin J charged the jury...."

"The first section of the bill of rights in the constitution of Pennsylvania declares that all men have the inherent and indefeasible right of enjoying and defending life and liberty of acquiring possessing and protecting property that no man can be deprived of his liberty or property but by the judgment of his peers or the law of the land Sect 9 That the right of citizens to bear arms in defence of themselves and the state shall not be questioned Sect 21 The second section of the fourth article of the constitution of the United States declares the citizens of each state shall be entitled to all privileges and immunities of citizens in the several states. The tenth section of the first article prohibits any state from passing any law which impairs the obligation of a contract. The second amendment provides that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

"...We shall pursue this subject no further, in its bearing on the political rights of the states composing the union--in recalling your attention to these rights, which are the subject of this controversy, we declare to you as the law of the case, that they are inherent and unalienable--so recognised by all our fundamental laws.

"The constitution of the state or union is not the source of these rights, or the others to which we have referred you, they existed in their plenitude before any constitutions, which do not create but protect and secure them against any violation by the legislatures or courts, in making, expounding or administering laws.

"The nature of this case, its history, and the course of the argument, call on us to declare explicitly what is the effect of a constitutional protection or guarantee of any right, or the injunction of any duty. The twenty sixth section of the bill of rights in the constitution of Pennsylvania, is in these words; "to guard against transgressions of the high powers we have delegated we declare [we the people of Pennsylvania], that every thing in this article is excepted out of the general powers of government, and shall for ever remain inviolate." A higher power declares this constitution and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof, shall be the supreme laws of the land, and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, any thing in the constitution or laws of any state to the contrary notwithstanding" Const U.S., art. 6, clause 2.

"An amendment of the constitution is of still higher authority, for it has the effect of controlling and repealing the express provisions of the constitution authorizing a power to be exercised, by a declaration that it shall not be construed to give such power. 3 Dall 382.

"We have stated to you the various provisions of the constitution of the United States and its amendments, as well as that of this state; you see their authority and obligation to be supreme over any laws or regulations which are repugnant to them, or which violate, infringe or impair any right thereby secured; the conclusions which result are too obvious to be more than stated."

- U.S. Supreme Court Justice BALDWIN, Circuit Court of The United States,[PENNSYLVANIA APRIL TERM 1833 BEFORE Hon. HENRY BALDWIN, Associate Justice of the [U.S.] Supreme Court, Hon JOSEPH HOPKINSON District Judge, Johnson v Tompkins,(13 F. Cas. 840 (C.C.E.D. Pa. 1833)), and others.]
GoGoBar

Thailand

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#105966
Apr 29, 2013
 

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Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
You might want to compare California to Texas. Their population is similar and murder rate is similar. One has very lenient gun laws, the other has very strict gun laws. You might want to ask yourself what it is both states have in common that causes similar murder rates with very different gun laws.
You always avoid that one.
LOL Teabag. You leao right over the fact that it is the guns.
Texas 1125 murders
Australia 221 Murders.

Now who has the guns?LOL.
As for California. Well can you buy a Semi Auto there?

You might like check Californioa against Hawaii. Hawaii have strict gun laws but it is very difficult to drive over the border and buy a gun from a redneck gun dealer.

California 4.8/100K
Hawaii 1.4/100K
Australia 1.1/100K

Yep, it is the guns.

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

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#105968
Apr 29, 2013
 
des wrote:
<quoted text> Really?? Brush up on your history lessons... Your embarrassing yourself and the rest of Australia. With your incoherant drivel and holier than thou attitute.
Our alliance with the Yanks is militarily based dumb troll...our alliance with England is blooded....since the day we stepped foot on Australian soil it is an unbreakable bond that binds us... Show me where this is not the case....you can't, ye feckin' moron. I don't see the US stars and stripes on our flag...no it is the British Union Jack...dick.

http://www.dfat.gov.au/geo/us/australia_us_al...

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

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#105970
Apr 29, 2013
 
bread wrote:
Shut the f*ck Ahomona up you fat unemployed useless bitch.
Go and die. Stop burdening Australian tax payers with your fat unemployed welfare sponge self.
Why should America listen to what a lowlife welfare cheat who is too lazy to get off her fat ass and work has to say.
Shut the f*ck Ahomona up you fat unemployed useless bitch.
Go and die. Stop burdening Australian tax payers with your fat unemployed welfare sponge self.
Why should America listen to what a lowlife welfare cheat who is too lazy to get off her fat ass and work has to say.
Shut the f*ck Ahomona up you fat unemployed useless bitch.
Go and die. Stop burdening Australian tax payers with your fat unemployed welfare sponge self.
Why should America listen to what a lowlife welfare cheat who is too lazy to get off her fat ass and work has to say.
Shut the f*ck Ahomona up you fat unemployed useless bitch.
Go and die. Stop burdening Australian tax payers with your fat unemployed welfare sponge self.
Why should America listen to what a lowlife welfare cheat who is too lazy to get off her fat ass and work has to say.
Shut the f*ck Ahomona up you fat unemployed useless bitch.
Go and die. Stop burdening Australian tax payers with your fat unemployed welfare sponge self.
Why should America listen to what a lowlife welfare cheat who is too lazy to get off her fat ass and work has to say.
Shut the f*ck Ahomona up you fat unemployed useless bitch.
Go and die. Stop burdening Australian tax payers with your fat unemployed welfare sponge self.
Why should America listen to what a lowlife welfare cheat who is too lazy to get off her fat ass and work has to say.
Shut the f*ck Ahomona up you fat unemployed useless bitch.
Go and die. Stop burdening Australian tax payers with your fat unemployed welfare sponge self.
Why should America listen to what a lowlife welfare cheat who is too lazy to get off her fat ass and work has to say.
Shut the f*ck Ahomona up you fat unemployed useless bitch.
Go and die. Stop burdening Australian tax payers with your fat unemployed welfare sponge self.
Why should America listen to what a lowlife welfare cheat who is too lazy to get off her fat ass and work has to say.
Shut the f*ck Ahomona up you fat unemployed useless bitch.
Go and die. Stop burdening Australian tax payers with your fat unemployed welfare sponge self.
Why should America listen to what a lowlife welfare cheat who is too lazy to get off her fat ass and work has to say.
Shut the f*ck Ahomona up you fat unemployed useless bitch.
Go and die. Stop burdening Australian tax payers with your fat unemployed welfare sponge self.
Why should America listen to what a lowlife welfare cheat who is too lazy to get off her fat ass and work has to say.
Shut the f*ck Ahomona up you fat unemployed useless bitch.
Go and die. Stop burdening Australian tax payers with your fat unemployed welfare sponge self.
Why should America listen to what a lowlife welfare cheat who is too lazy to get off her fat ass and work has to say.
Shut the f*ck Ahomona up you fat unemployed useless bitch.
Go and die. Stop burdening Australian tax payers with your fat unemployed welfare sponge self.
Why should America listen to what a lowlife welfare cheat who is too lazy to get off her fat ass and work has to say.
Shut the f*ck Ahomona up you fat unemployed useless bitch.
Go and die. Stop burdening Australian tax payers with your fat unemployed welfare sponge self.
Why should America listen to what a lowlife welfare cheat who is too lazy to get off her fat ass and work has to say.
Shut the f*ck Ahomona up you fat unemployed useless bitch.
Go and die. Stop burdening Australian tax payers with your fat unemployed welfare sponge self.
Why should America listen to what a lowlife welfare cheat who is too lazy to get off her fat ass and work has to say.
After that twaddly you should take your own advice you boring dumb troll...Yawwwwwwwwwwwn!

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

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#105971
Apr 29, 2013
 
There you go again wrote:
<quoted text>
so you are a land of vegetarians?
Go back and read the post again...der.... you ignorant barefoot hillbilly...

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

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#105972
Apr 29, 2013
 
Tray wrote:
<quoted text> Self defense is not giving your attacker a fighting chance. As the old saying goes "if you find yourself in a fair fight your tactics are flawed. I promise an attacker is not going to afford you the same courtesy.
Extrapolate Tray....things will go smoother...

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

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#105973
Apr 29, 2013
 
Tray wrote:
<quoted text> I've been saying it all along. Violence is cause by a lot of variations and differ from area to area. It's not the guns. Larry finally got it right. The cause of crime in one area may by poverty related and in other it may be an ethnic thing or social. To limit it to the tool used in violence is to simplify a very complex problem. To trade one crime for another is not solving the problem nor is it acceptable. If a killer took 5 adults hostage but said he would release them if you would provide him with 20 young children to rape, would you? No negotiation with crime or criminals. It only encourages the behavior. Stop plea bargains, stop parole and early release. Stop the equal force crap. Make being a criminal a dead end line of work.
Now I did agree with most of what you said till you said it was not the guns....guns have made life easier for criminals for war for killing in general...try a drive by with a lolly pop.......guns are cheap and easy method of death...

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

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#105974
Apr 29, 2013
 
Tray wrote:
http://www.vice.com/read/port- moresbys-little-raskols
Give him a gun that could be an American gang member...

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

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#105975
Apr 29, 2013
 
Tray wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I nitiation
Violence breeds violence.

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