It's the Guns, Stupid

It's the Guns, Stupid

There are 103340 comments on the Truthdig story from Apr 20, 2007, titled It's the Guns, Stupid. In it, Truthdig reports that:

“And that's the end of the issue”

Why do we have the same futile argument every time there is a mass killing? Advocates of gun control try to open a discussion about whether more reasonable weapons statutes might reduce the number of violent ... via Truthdig

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Truthdig.

Tray

Tupelo, MS

#105960 Apr 29, 2013
GoGoBar wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL. Then how come less than 800,000 kill more than 100,000 million?
HAHAHAHA. 2,500,000 for 225. Good odds. Against 350,000 violent gunnuts.
HAHAHAHA
350,000 gun violent crimes per year.
225 self defense homicides per year
HAHAHAHAHAHA.
I wouldnt laugh if there were 4000 self defence per year.
The cops only kill 370 per year anmd they are at every crime.!
Where do you get "350,000"? It is still a long way from 2,500,000 self defense uses. Your numbers show armed citizens use guns for self defense more than cops yet kill fewer criminals than cops. Thanks for helping make the case to disarm cops and arm citizens.
Tray

Tupelo, MS

#105961 Apr 29, 2013
Larry wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok I ll give you.that different mix of ethnicities, density of population and maybe some other factor of stress all play a role in the huge difference in gun crime between the USA and Australia, but does that account for 15 times higher rates of shooting deaths.
Not twice, not three times, 15... And these mass shootings, how many more are does it take? we havent had any in Australia because the laws are so strict on guns.
Can you back that claim with documented research, or is that just your opinion? Once again I can document the wearing of shoes involved in criminal actions but that does not prove shoes played any role in the criminal action. Realistically there are countries with much much higher murders than the U.S. but much less gun ownership. In fact our crime rate has been dropping for 10 years even though gun numbers increase. That in it's self blows your entire argument away. As far as mass shootings compared to other murder rates in they are extremely minimal. As shown to you before more are killed by bare hands than the dreaded "assault weapon". I know you want to believe what you've been told but most of it is just twisting of facts. or in layman terms, LIES.
Tray

Tupelo, MS

#105962 Apr 29, 2013
GoGoBar wrote:
Texas murders 1122
Australia murders 221
Both Jurisdictions 22 million people.
Who has the guns. LOL.
You forgot to mention those Texas murders mostly are blamed on criminals from Mexico crossing the boarder to commit crime. Australia not having a boarder with a highly violent society does not have that same right to claim a comparison. Apples to oranges. Another attempt to twist facts shown to be a lie. Can't you defend your stance with real facts instead of twisted propaganda? Sad sad sad.
Tray

Tupelo, MS

#105963 Apr 29, 2013
Larry wrote:
The statics are that when gun ownership rates dropped after the buyback and strict new measures were put on place we did not see any more mass shootings, suicide rate dropped significantly and the rate of gun related deaths also has dropped significantly.
Deaths by other meathods have not increased.
This is not my opinion but well known fact.
Every murder or suicide is recorded as a statistic, there is no conspiracy by the government, people wanted this, even people that hated the PM thought it was a good idea! The whole country acted.
WOW the government passes a law then defends it with numbers that fit there claim, BUT without showing other issues and actions that led to these numbers. Economic improvement along with other social changes were more likely the reason for the numbers but that would not advance their agenda. Even your own government research admits gun control had little to do with crime rates.

“Shall NOT be infringed!”

Since: Apr 13

San Jose, CA.

#105964 Apr 29, 2013
"...Baldwin J charged the jury...."

"The first section of the bill of rights in the constitution of Pennsylvania declares that all men have the inherent and indefeasible right of enjoying and defending life and liberty of acquiring possessing and protecting property that no man can be deprived of his liberty or property but by the judgment of his peers or the law of the land Sect 9 That the right of citizens to bear arms in defence of themselves and the state shall not be questioned Sect 21 The second section of the fourth article of the constitution of the United States declares the citizens of each state shall be entitled to all privileges and immunities of citizens in the several states. The tenth section of the first article prohibits any state from passing any law which impairs the obligation of a contract. The second amendment provides that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

"...We shall pursue this subject no further, in its bearing on the political rights of the states composing the union--in recalling your attention to these rights, which are the subject of this controversy, we declare to you as the law of the case, that they are inherent and unalienable--so recognised by all our fundamental laws.

"The constitution of the state or union is not the source of these rights, or the others to which we have referred you, they existed in their plenitude before any constitutions, which do not create but protect and secure them against any violation by the legislatures or courts, in making, expounding or administering laws.

"The nature of this case, its history, and the course of the argument, call on us to declare explicitly what is the effect of a constitutional protection or guarantee of any right, or the injunction of any duty. The twenty sixth section of the bill of rights in the constitution of Pennsylvania, is in these words; "to guard against transgressions of the high powers we have delegated we declare [we the people of Pennsylvania], that every thing in this article is excepted out of the general powers of government, and shall for ever remain inviolate." A higher power declares this constitution and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof, shall be the supreme laws of the land, and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, any thing in the constitution or laws of any state to the contrary notwithstanding" Const U.S., art. 6, clause 2.

"An amendment of the constitution is of still higher authority, for it has the effect of controlling and repealing the express provisions of the constitution authorizing a power to be exercised, by a declaration that it shall not be construed to give such power. 3 Dall 382.

"We have stated to you the various provisions of the constitution of the United States and its amendments, as well as that of this state; you see their authority and obligation to be supreme over any laws or regulations which are repugnant to them, or which violate, infringe or impair any right thereby secured; the conclusions which result are too obvious to be more than stated."

- U.S. Supreme Court Justice BALDWIN, Circuit Court of The United States,[PENNSYLVANIA APRIL TERM 1833 BEFORE Hon. HENRY BALDWIN, Associate Justice of the [U.S.] Supreme Court, Hon JOSEPH HOPKINSON District Judge, Johnson v Tompkins,(13 F. Cas. 840 (C.C.E.D. Pa. 1833)), and others.]
GoGoBar

Thailand

#105966 Apr 29, 2013
Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
You might want to compare California to Texas. Their population is similar and murder rate is similar. One has very lenient gun laws, the other has very strict gun laws. You might want to ask yourself what it is both states have in common that causes similar murder rates with very different gun laws.
You always avoid that one.
LOL Teabag. You leao right over the fact that it is the guns.
Texas 1125 murders
Australia 221 Murders.

Now who has the guns?LOL.
As for California. Well can you buy a Semi Auto there?

You might like check Californioa against Hawaii. Hawaii have strict gun laws but it is very difficult to drive over the border and buy a gun from a redneck gun dealer.

California 4.8/100K
Hawaii 1.4/100K
Australia 1.1/100K

Yep, it is the guns.

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#105968 Apr 29, 2013
des wrote:
<quoted text> Really?? Brush up on your history lessons... Your embarrassing yourself and the rest of Australia. With your incoherant drivel and holier than thou attitute.
Our alliance with the Yanks is militarily based dumb troll...our alliance with England is blooded....since the day we stepped foot on Australian soil it is an unbreakable bond that binds us... Show me where this is not the case....you can't, ye feckin' moron. I don't see the US stars and stripes on our flag...no it is the British Union Jack...dick.

http://www.dfat.gov.au/geo/us/australia_us_al...

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#105970 Apr 29, 2013
bread wrote:
Shut the f*ck Ahomona up you fat unemployed useless bitch.
Go and die. Stop burdening Australian tax payers with your fat unemployed welfare sponge self.
Why should America listen to what a lowlife welfare cheat who is too lazy to get off her fat ass and work has to say.
Shut the f*ck Ahomona up you fat unemployed useless bitch.
Go and die. Stop burdening Australian tax payers with your fat unemployed welfare sponge self.
Why should America listen to what a lowlife welfare cheat who is too lazy to get off her fat ass and work has to say.
Shut the f*ck Ahomona up you fat unemployed useless bitch.
Go and die. Stop burdening Australian tax payers with your fat unemployed welfare sponge self.
Why should America listen to what a lowlife welfare cheat who is too lazy to get off her fat ass and work has to say.
Shut the f*ck Ahomona up you fat unemployed useless bitch.
Go and die. Stop burdening Australian tax payers with your fat unemployed welfare sponge self.
Why should America listen to what a lowlife welfare cheat who is too lazy to get off her fat ass and work has to say.
Shut the f*ck Ahomona up you fat unemployed useless bitch.
Go and die. Stop burdening Australian tax payers with your fat unemployed welfare sponge self.
Why should America listen to what a lowlife welfare cheat who is too lazy to get off her fat ass and work has to say.
Shut the f*ck Ahomona up you fat unemployed useless bitch.
Go and die. Stop burdening Australian tax payers with your fat unemployed welfare sponge self.
Why should America listen to what a lowlife welfare cheat who is too lazy to get off her fat ass and work has to say.
Shut the f*ck Ahomona up you fat unemployed useless bitch.
Go and die. Stop burdening Australian tax payers with your fat unemployed welfare sponge self.
Why should America listen to what a lowlife welfare cheat who is too lazy to get off her fat ass and work has to say.
Shut the f*ck Ahomona up you fat unemployed useless bitch.
Go and die. Stop burdening Australian tax payers with your fat unemployed welfare sponge self.
Why should America listen to what a lowlife welfare cheat who is too lazy to get off her fat ass and work has to say.
Shut the f*ck Ahomona up you fat unemployed useless bitch.
Go and die. Stop burdening Australian tax payers with your fat unemployed welfare sponge self.
Why should America listen to what a lowlife welfare cheat who is too lazy to get off her fat ass and work has to say.
Shut the f*ck Ahomona up you fat unemployed useless bitch.
Go and die. Stop burdening Australian tax payers with your fat unemployed welfare sponge self.
Why should America listen to what a lowlife welfare cheat who is too lazy to get off her fat ass and work has to say.
Shut the f*ck Ahomona up you fat unemployed useless bitch.
Go and die. Stop burdening Australian tax payers with your fat unemployed welfare sponge self.
Why should America listen to what a lowlife welfare cheat who is too lazy to get off her fat ass and work has to say.
Shut the f*ck Ahomona up you fat unemployed useless bitch.
Go and die. Stop burdening Australian tax payers with your fat unemployed welfare sponge self.
Why should America listen to what a lowlife welfare cheat who is too lazy to get off her fat ass and work has to say.
Shut the f*ck Ahomona up you fat unemployed useless bitch.
Go and die. Stop burdening Australian tax payers with your fat unemployed welfare sponge self.
Why should America listen to what a lowlife welfare cheat who is too lazy to get off her fat ass and work has to say.
Shut the f*ck Ahomona up you fat unemployed useless bitch.
Go and die. Stop burdening Australian tax payers with your fat unemployed welfare sponge self.
Why should America listen to what a lowlife welfare cheat who is too lazy to get off her fat ass and work has to say.
After that twaddly you should take your own advice you boring dumb troll...Yawwwwwwwwwwwn!

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#105971 Apr 29, 2013
There you go again wrote:
<quoted text>
so you are a land of vegetarians?
Go back and read the post again...der.... you ignorant barefoot hillbilly...

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#105972 Apr 29, 2013
Tray wrote:
<quoted text> Self defense is not giving your attacker a fighting chance. As the old saying goes "if you find yourself in a fair fight your tactics are flawed. I promise an attacker is not going to afford you the same courtesy.
Extrapolate Tray....things will go smoother...

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#105973 Apr 29, 2013
Tray wrote:
<quoted text> I've been saying it all along. Violence is cause by a lot of variations and differ from area to area. It's not the guns. Larry finally got it right. The cause of crime in one area may by poverty related and in other it may be an ethnic thing or social. To limit it to the tool used in violence is to simplify a very complex problem. To trade one crime for another is not solving the problem nor is it acceptable. If a killer took 5 adults hostage but said he would release them if you would provide him with 20 young children to rape, would you? No negotiation with crime or criminals. It only encourages the behavior. Stop plea bargains, stop parole and early release. Stop the equal force crap. Make being a criminal a dead end line of work.
Now I did agree with most of what you said till you said it was not the guns....guns have made life easier for criminals for war for killing in general...try a drive by with a lolly pop.......guns are cheap and easy method of death...

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#105974 Apr 29, 2013
Tray wrote:
http://www.vice.com/read/port- moresbys-little-raskols
Give him a gun that could be an American gang member...

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#105975 Apr 29, 2013
Tray wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I nitiation
Violence breeds violence.
Troll hunter

Australia

#105976 Apr 29, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
Violence breeds violence.
Give it a rest fat troll. You are one hateful ugly person my God

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#105977 Apr 29, 2013
Tray wrote:
http://www.privatephotoreview. com/photoessays-online/vlad-so khin-crying-meri-violence-agai nst-women-in-papua-new-guinea/
Violence against women is a crime that is worldwide...walk out your back door...women have been raped, abused, murdered by men since the beginning of time they are the most neglected and mistreated group on the planet...and you are just now feeling the need to educate us on that...we know it we have lived it you men know nothing of what some of you are capable of toward women....and children...men are a sick perverted group...and a great deal of women would be safer and better off if men disappeared off the face of the earth.


http://www.vaw.umn.edu/documents/inbriefs/dom...
Troll hunter

Australia

#105978 Apr 29, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
Violence against women is a crime that is worldwide...walk out your back door...women have been raped, abused, murdered by men since the beginning of time they are the most neglected and mistreated group on the planet...and you are just now feeling the need to educate us on that...we know it we have lived it you men know nothing of what some of you are capable of toward women....and children...men are a sick perverted group...and a great deal of women would be safer and better off if men disappeared off the face of the earth.
http://www.vaw.umn.edu/documents/inbriefs/dom...
Another idiot post from the fat idiot. A sexist Racist clueless fat troll, you must have flowers sent to you every day
Jail GoGoBar

New York, NY

#105979 Apr 29, 2013
GoGoBar wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL Teabag. You leao right over the fact that it is the guns.
Texas 1125 murders
Australia 221 Murders.
Now who has the guns?LOL.
As for California. Well can you buy a Semi Auto there?
You might like check Californioa against Hawaii. Hawaii have strict gun laws but it is very difficult to drive over the border and buy a gun from a redneck gun dealer.
California 4.8/100K
Hawaii 1.4/100K
Australia 1.1/100K
Yep, it is the guns.
says the sick kiddy fiddling old queer, hiding in Thailand touching kids

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#105980 Apr 29, 2013
Tray wrote:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-smeK jFMLCeo/TekpiAmzo3I/AAAAAAAAAi 8/PrpjKtPLAU8/s1600/eat-baby.j pg
Should ask the Iraqi's and the Afghans how they feel about the atrocities of bomb blasts on their kids...being a tad selective here Tray...

http://cursor.org/stories/casualty_count.htm

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#105981 Apr 29, 2013
Troll hunter wrote:
<quoted text>Another idiot post from the fat idiot. A sexist Racist clueless fat troll, you must have flowers sent to you every day
Another dumb troll actually calling himself a troll!....you must be new.
hater of fat unemployed

New York, NY

#105982 Apr 29, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
Another dumb troll actually calling himself a troll!....you must be new.
Why should anyone listen to you, a fat unemployed old woman.
You are a part of the population that NOBODY NEEDS.

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