It's the Guns, Stupid

Apr 20, 2007 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Truthdig

“And that's the end of the issue”

Why do we have the same futile argument every time there is a mass killing? Advocates of gun control try to open a discussion about whether more reasonable weapons statutes might reduce the number of violent ... via Truthdig

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GoGoBar

Thailand

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#105862
Apr 28, 2013
 
Policy Conclusion of Gary Kleck who's study showed that Guns are used defensively between 800,000 and 2.5 million times per year.

Therefore, the significance of the few gun control measures found to be effective should not be overlooked. There is empirical support for some moderate gun controls. I favor a national "instant records check," which would screen for high-risk gun buyers similar to owner license and purchase permit systems, but without the delays and arbitrary administration which sometimes characterizes those controls. The system should cover nondealer transactions as well as dealer sales, and apply to rifles and shotguns, as well as handguns. Also, tighter licensing of gun dealers and increased enforcement of carry laws may be useful.

Gun control is a very minor, though not entirely irrelevant, part of the solution to the violence problem, just as guns are of only very minor significance as a cause of the problem. The U.S. has more violence than other nations for reasons unrelated to its extraordinarily high gun ownership. Fixating on guns seems to be, for many people, a fetish which allows them to ignore the more intransigent causes of American violence, including its dying cities, inequality, deteriorating family structure, and the all- pervasive economic and social consequences of a history of slavery and racism. And just as gun control serves this purpose for liberals, equally useless "get tough" proposals, like longer prison terms, mandatory sentencing, and more use of the death penalty serve the purpose for conservatives. All parties to the crime debate would do well to give more concentrated attention to more difficult, but far more relevant, issues like how to generate more good-paying jobs for the underclass which is at the heart of the violence problem.

“ WOOF !”

Since: Nov 12

Coolidge, AZ

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#105863
Apr 28, 2013
 
Anyone who ever would try to take away our arms and ammunition would be met with armed force.

And I find it amusing that the liberals' recent attempt at "gun control" had the opposite effect of what they intended because many people, fearing new legal restrictions on firearms and ammunition, caused a huge upsurge in the sales of the very thing the liberals were trying to outlaw.

"from my cold dead hands......"
GoGoBar

Thailand

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#105865
Apr 28, 2013
 

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Fa-Foxy wrote:
Anyone who ever would try to take away our arms and ammunition would be met with armed force.
And I find it amusing that the liberals' recent attempt at "gun control" had the opposite effect of what they intended because many people, fearing new legal restrictions on firearms and ammunition, caused a huge upsurge in the sales of the very thing the liberals were trying to outlaw.
"from my cold dead hands......"
Mexican standoff! That always ends well.

Jimmy Lee Dykes!
Becky

Nanjing, China

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#105866
Apr 28, 2013
 

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Fa-Foxy wrote:
<quoted text>
Our guns are as American as Apple Pie and whiskey, and the American people want them. and it is our CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO POSSESS THEM. If you don't like that, then please don't come over here.
Numbskulls like you are big on rights. What about responsibility?
BTW apple pie is middle European peasant cuisine, and whisky comes from Scotland and Ireland
yep

United States

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#105867
Apr 28, 2013
 

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Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
Whose Mexico's? if so the answer is yes, because even though it falls short we follow a better system...the Westminster system whereby there is some corruption but on the whole it's failure is more often than not because of ineffectual sentences for harsh crimes....ie a computer cracker or black hat gets a longer term in prison for accessing NASA or the CIA than a murderer of children...that is ridiculous the penalty of murder or attempted murder should be given the toughest sentences there are with no chance of parole...that is not happening and that is the fault of the law makers not the judiciary system.
You lie. America has the death sentence for those who commit murder. That is pretty damn harsh. Does australia have the death sentence? I dont think so.
yep

United States

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#105868
Apr 28, 2013
 

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GoGoBar wrote:
Policy Conclusion of Gary Kleck who's study showed that Guns are used defensively between 800,000 and 2.5 million times per year.
Therefore, the significance of the few gun control measures found to be effective should not be overlooked. There is empirical support for some moderate gun controls. I favor a national "instant records check," which would screen for high-risk gun buyers similar to owner license and purchase permit systems, but without the delays and arbitrary administration which sometimes characterizes those controls. The system should cover nondealer transactions as well as dealer sales, and apply to rifles and shotguns, as well as handguns. Also, tighter licensing of gun dealers and increased enforcement of carry laws may be useful.
Gun control is a very minor, though not entirely irrelevant, part of the solution to the violence problem, just as guns are of only very minor significance as a cause of the problem. The U.S. has more violence than other nations for reasons unrelated to its extraordinarily high gun ownership. Fixating on guns seems to be, for many people, a fetish which allows them to ignore the more intransigent causes of American violence, including its dying cities, inequality, deteriorating family structure, and the all- pervasive economic and social consequences of a history of slavery and racism. And just as gun control serves this purpose for liberals, equally useless "get tough" proposals, like longer prison terms, mandatory sentencing, and more use of the death penalty serve the purpose for conservatives. All parties to the crime debate would do well to give more concentrated attention to more difficult, but far more relevant, issues like how to generate more good-paying jobs for the underclass which is at the heart of the violence problem.
you speak of the history of slavery and racism in america, well, you're right, it's their HISTORY. Now, back to your country, it still practices slavery.
I suggest picking the buggers out from your own nose before you attempt to pick them from someone else.
Becky

China

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#105869
Apr 28, 2013
 

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yep wrote:
<quoted text>you speak of the history of slavery and racism in america, well, you're right, it's their HISTORY. Now, back to your country, it still practices slavery.
I suggest picking the buggers out from your own nose before you attempt to pick them from someone else.
That's all you got out of Gogobar's thoughtful constructive post? Read it again, moron
yep

United States

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#105872
Apr 28, 2013
 

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Why dont you and gogobar worry about your own country. Or does china and thailand have no problems.
Hey, I know, lets talk about child sex trafficking in thailand, or how chinas policy of killing newborn baby girls.
Guess gun control takes the top notch with you two child molesters through doesn't it.
Sick perverts!
yep

United States

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#105873
Apr 28, 2013
 

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and before you say they dont, you're partly right. Eventhough it is considered a crime in china to kill infant girls, it is rarely enforced if the parents kill their infant girls, which in reality is the chineese govt of condoneing such evil practice.

Now, for the child sex slave trade in thailand. It is the most widespread of any nation on earth. why do you think gogobar is there?

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

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#105874
Apr 28, 2013
 
lastbefirst wrote:
<quoted text>
If I was to tell you about a couple of cases incredible and extraordinary that I am aware of; you would fall backwards; the truth is that westminister or not; the judicial system is still based on the roman model; CORRUPT, DIRTY, nepotistic, arbitrary, full of drugaddict low lifes worse than the criminals themselves; actually,it seems that the philosophy when it comes to hiring people to fight crims is to get even worse crims ( to keep them under control).
anyway, one thing I have learned over the years is that lawyers would sell their mother to the highest bidder, here or in Mexico or in china.
I do agree with you wholeheartedly about lawyers and yes of course there is corrution...but you are asking me to compare it with Mexico....a city that is wrought with corruption mainly via the drug cartels...Mexico does not have the advantage of being a first world country where most people can earn an honest living where the crime syndicates generally off their own...Mexico in one month in August 1700 people were murdered those that were involved with drugs and many that were not...we are in that respects a hell of a lot luckier and there is not the fear here of the cartells that exists in Mexico for very good reason...standards of living...so I cannot disagree that there is corruption where there is crime there will be those who will try to pervert justice...but to compare us with Mexico no matter how serious you think the corruption is cannot truly be compared...there is just no equivalent to Mexico and the evil of drug money...

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

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#105876
Apr 28, 2013
 
yep wrote:
<quoted text>You lie. America has the death sentence for those who commit murder. That is pretty damn harsh. Does australia have the death sentence? I dont think so.
They have the death penalty in some stated but that can take years to enforce after they have exhausted every appeal on the taxpayers dollar...one trial of your peers should be justice enough and then they should be jailed for life if found guilty, why muck about with appeal after appeal just to (in most cases) reach the same conclusion...Very few of the states with the death penalty enforce it, most of them regard it as unconstitutional and commute the sentence to life without parole.

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

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#105878
Apr 28, 2013
 
yep wrote:
and before you say they dont, you're partly right. Eventhough it is considered a crime in china to kill infant girls, it is rarely enforced if the parents kill their infant girls, which in reality is the chineese govt of condoneing such evil practice.
Now, for the child sex slave trade in thailand. It is the most widespread of any nation on earth. why do you think gogobar is there?
Yes, how bloody horrific is that? You should have obviously considered that it is predominantly the white western males for whom these children are being sold and prostituted for, the Thai's are catering to a market!...You should be so proud of yourselves..... Another reason to rid ourselves of men eh?

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

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#105879
Apr 28, 2013
 

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Fa-Foxy wrote:
<quoted text>
Our guns are as American as Apple Pie and whiskey, and the American people want them. and it is our CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO POSSESS THEM. If you don't like that, then please don't come over here.
No that would be your mothers teat..you weren't born suckling to a loaded gun...though YOU should have been...

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

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#105880
Apr 28, 2013
 

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Fa-Foxy wrote:
Anyone who ever would try to take away our arms and ammunition would be met with armed force.
And I find it amusing that the liberals' recent attempt at "gun control" had the opposite effect of what they intended because many people, fearing new legal restrictions on firearms and ammunition, caused a huge upsurge in the sales of the very thing the liberals were trying to outlaw.
"from my cold dead hands......"
Yada, yada, yada,...wipe your chin, you are dribbling shit.....you wouldn't last two minutes...target locked on, fire the drones by remote control....tick boom....oops there goes Coolidge along with that funny Fox..and all his inbred kin, no lives lost from this end....drone return to base...yuk yuk...

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

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#105881
Apr 28, 2013
 

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Fa-Foxy wrote:
<quoted text>
Our guns are as American as Apple Pie and whiskey, and the American people want them. and it is our CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO POSSESS THEM. If you don't like that, then please don't come over here.


You don't have to ask me not to go.....I wouldn't dream of returning...not since you have fingerprinting for innocents to stop terrorism...hows that working for you...and yet you can't bring in gun control to stop you killing each other from the inside...what's the feckin' difference?
Becky

China

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#105882
Apr 28, 2013
 

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yep wrote:
and before you say they dont, you're partly right. Eventhough it is considered a crime in china to kill infant girls, it is rarely enforced if the parents kill their infant girls, which in reality is the chineese govt of condoneing such evil practice.
Now, for the child sex slave trade in thailand. It is the most widespread of any nation on earth. why do you think gogobar is there?
You're as ignorant as you are stupid. I have friends who teach in elementary and middle school here and there are as many girls as boys in every grade.
Teaman

Mount Holly, NJ

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#105890
Apr 28, 2013
 

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Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
They have the death penalty in some stated but that can take years to enforce after they have exhausted every appeal on the taxpayers dollar...one trial of your peers should be justice enough and then they should be jailed for life if found guilty, why muck about with appeal after appeal just to (in most cases) reach the same conclusion...Very few of the states with the death penalty enforce it, most of them regard it as unconstitutional and commute the sentence to life without parole.
You've been reading up, eh? I might add that a number of people on death row have been vindicated by DNA technology. Beyond reasonable doubt isn't enough for me when it comes to a life. It should be absolutely no doubt whatsoever when one's life is involved.
GoGoBar

Thailand

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#105893
Apr 28, 2013
 

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Well, life without parole is a bit harsh.

Most gunnut murders are momentary lapses of sanity where the threat of the gun is outrun by the reality.

"I didnt mean to shoot. I was excited and the gun just went off"

Given 2-7 years to reflect, and the reality of never being able to own a firearm again, surely the expense of incarceration is not worth it.

There are self claimed accidental gunnut murders out there. People who arent assasins, just victims of circumstance.

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

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#105894
Apr 28, 2013
 

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Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
You've been reading up, eh? I might add that a number of people on death row have been vindicated by DNA technology. Beyond reasonable doubt isn't enough for me when it comes to a life. It should be absolutely no doubt whatsoever when one's life is involved.
Yes I have :)... I agree that it should be beyond all doubt for a finding of murder, even if there is a confession...Interesting to think how many crims could be wandering around after someone else was executed for their crimes. Most states opt for the lifetime incarceration now, so if mistakes are made they can be rectified...better idea...as long as you survive prison.:(
roby

Saint Marys, Canada

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#105900
Apr 28, 2013
 
And I like to make one more comment from another American that Canada gun murder rate was compared higher than yours on a per capita basis,Wrong I think the murders a year hover around 180 gun murders and that's whole country,maybe I,m doing my math wrong.

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