It's the Guns, Stupid

There are 20 comments on the Apr 20, 2007, Truthdig story titled It's the Guns, Stupid. In it, Truthdig reports that:

“And that's the end of the issue”

Why do we have the same futile argument every time there is a mass killing? Advocates of gun control try to open a discussion about whether more reasonable weapons statutes might reduce the number of violent ... via Truthdig

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Truthdig.

Teaman

Mount Holly, NJ

#105819 Apr 28, 2013
Larry wrote:
<quoted text> so what do you mean by that they document a killing?, they just walk in and shoot instead of asking for the cash?? If thats the case thats crazy, you really need to get rid of the guns.
Sometimes that happens. Not too long ago locally, an armored money transport guard was walking to his armored truck from a super market carrying a bag of money. A man simply walked up behind him and shot him in the head and ran away with the bag of money.

There are a lot of crazies. Most of it is driven by drug addiction. The guns are already illegal where these incidents happen.

Just the other night in the city near me, Philadelphia, the seedy side of town, this happened. Guns are very controlled in Philly, yet criminals get their hands on them.

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Hig...

The laws are already there. The courts don't follow through. These things are often plea bargained to a lesser crime to move an overwhelmed court schedule.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#105820 Apr 28, 2013
GoGoBar wrote:
USA total Murder rate 4.8
USA GUN MUrder rate 3.7
4.8-3.7= 1.1
Australia Total Murder rate =1.1
Looks like the guns are the major difference.
LOL
AUSTRALIA: MORE VIOLENT CRIME DESPITE GUN BAN

April 13, 2009

It is a common fantasy that gun bans make society safer. In 2002 -- five years after enacting its gun ban -- the Australian Bureau of Criminology acknowledged there is no correlation between gun control and the use of firearms in violent crime. In fact, the percent of murders committed with a firearm was the highest it had ever been in 2006 (16.3 percent), says the D.C. Examiner.

Even Australia's Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research acknowledges that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime:
•In 2006, assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
•Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
•Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/...
GoGoBar

Thailand

#105821 Apr 28, 2013
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>AUSTRALIA: MORE VIOLENT CRIME DESPITE GUN BAN
April 13, 2009
It is a common fantasy that gun bans make society safer. In 2002 -- five years after enacting its gun ban -- the Australian Bureau of Criminology acknowledged there is no correlation between gun control and the use of firearms in violent crime. In fact, the percent of murders committed with a firearm was the highest it had ever been in 2006 (16.3 percent), says the D.C. Examiner.
Even Australia's Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research acknowledges that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime:
•In 2006, assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
•Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
•Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/...
LOL. Having half the violent crime rate of the USA is a Bad thing?
Only the UK has a violence level similar to the USA. For good reason. The UK and the USA have the same income inequality.
The rest of the white advanced countries have half and less.

But the UK pretty much owns the USA anyway. That is why they are the Banking capital of the world.
Teaman

Mount Holly, NJ

#105822 Apr 28, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
So how DO the crims get the guns then?
Very often the same way drugs do. Most common is straw buyers. I believe Pennsylvania just passed a law requiring one to report a gun was stolen to cut that down. You're simply crazy to bring a gun into NJ. We don't even recognize permits from other states.

We had a guy with no criminal record who moved here with a legal gun from Colorado who was imprisoned for seven years for bringing it into the state. The governor commuted the sentence.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/12/gov_...
Teaman

Mount Holly, NJ

#105823 Apr 28, 2013
Larry wrote:
<quoted text> not debunked.
For starters the Japanese. Are a different ethnicity and Japans population is majority Ethnic Japanese. Japanese people have large expectations and pressures to perform accidemically and other cultural differences. There are race differences in suicide rates. Some people are more prone to stress and other emotions.
Japan is actually not a violent place, its stats are not bad..
Did you ever walk into a bar and have the whole place go silent? That happened to me in Chinatown, Yokohama.:-)
spocko

Oakland, CA

#105824 Apr 28, 2013
GoGoBar wrote:
I have to say that the US has been doing a sterling job on their foreign policy in general. Good old Obama.
But these severe sanctions against North Korea and Iran are beginning to border on criminal.
Both countries are facing malnutrition cisis and may hace to issue food stamps soon.
Your idea of a lame attempt at humor?
anti gogo bar

United States

#105825 Apr 28, 2013
gogo bar all too often likes to post usa crime stats, yet doesnt post those of thailand, which has less people but is at a dead tie with usa in murder.
It, thailand, however, is way ahead of the rest of the world in child sex slave rings, and slavery in general.
Maybe gogo bar doesnt want too much publicity on the child sex thing bc gogo bar is reaping its benifits?

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#105826 Apr 28, 2013
GoGoBar wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL. Having half the violent crime rate of the USA is a Bad thing?
Only the UK has a violence level similar to the USA. For good reason. The UK and the USA have the same income inequality.
The rest of the white advanced countries have half and less.
But the UK pretty much owns the USA anyway. That is why they are the Banking capital of the world.
Really sad that the facts are true about Australia and just think more people live in the state of California than the whole entire continent of Australia.

Crime Rate Increases with Australia's gun Ban



AUSTRALIA: MORE VIOLENT CRIME DESPITE GUN BAN

April 13, 2009

It is a common fantasy that gun bans make society safer. In 2002 -- five years after enacting its gun ban -- the Australian Bureau of Criminology acknowledged there is no correlation between gun control and the use of firearms in violent crime. In fact, the percent of murders committed with a firearm was the highest it had ever been in 2006 (16.3 percent), says the D.C. Examiner.

Even Australia's Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research acknowledges that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime:
•In 2006, assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
•Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
•Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.

Moreover, Australia and the United States -- where no gun-ban exists -- both experienced similar decreases in murder rates:
•Between 1995 and 2007, Australia saw a 31.9 percent decrease; without a gun ban, America's rate dropped 31.7 percent.
•During the same time period, all other violent crime indices increased in Australia: assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
•Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
•Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
•At the same time, U.S. violent crime decreased 31.8 percent: rape dropped 19.2 percent; robbery decreased 33.2 percent; aggravated assault dropped 32.2 percent.
•Australian women are now raped over three times as often as American women.

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/...
Tray

Tupelo, MS

#105827 Apr 28, 2013
Larry wrote:
<quoted text> not debunked.
For starters the Japanese. Are a different ethnicity and Japans population is majority Ethnic Japanese. Japanese people have large expectations and pressures to perform accidemically and other cultural differences. There are race differences in suicide rates. Some people are more prone to stress and other emotions.
Japan is actually not a violent place, its stats are not bad..
twist again. You are not comparing ethnicity, expectations, or stress levels. You are comparing gun ownership. Of course when proven the method of suicide is irrelevant you change the cause. your claim is Australia has fewer suicide because of lack of guns not social or stress or any other reason, just guns. Then when pointed out one of the highest national suicide rates are countries with little or no guns you want it to be about race. Japan also has a 95% crime solved and conviction rate but they do not allow the human rights such as to a lawyer or swift trial or considered innocent untill proven guilty. They also allow certain pressures (torture) to be placed on suspects to force confessions. Would you also agree to having that in your country to have a lower crime rate?
Tray

Tupelo, MS

#105828 Apr 28, 2013
GoGoBar wrote:
USA total Murder rate 4.8
USA GUN MUrder rate 3.7
4.8-3.7= 1.1
Australia Total Murder rate =1.1
Looks like the guns are the major difference.
LOL
Not so. Larry says it's race. Or difference in stress levels. Or some other thing other than guns.

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#105830 Apr 28, 2013
pistol wrote:
<quoted text>australian old boilder like you can only buy a firearm in your dream
And idiots like you can get one easily....who would you prefer to have a gun...and idiot or an old boiler...dumb troll.

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#105831 Apr 28, 2013
Tray wrote:
<quoted text> But you have higher rates of everything else. Not a good trade.
Well none of that is true...but even if it was...which would you choose if you had to....the murder of children or general crime...I can't get over the absolute morons you have in your country....the answer would be the latter to everyone with a brain Tray.

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#105832 Apr 28, 2013
Tray wrote:
<quoted text> Self defense is also prohibited there. Not a good trade.
No again you are not telling the truth...we have the right to use self defense, EQUAL FORCE self defense...if you know what that means?....You really should learn to get your facts straight Tray if you want to be seen to be credible and not some jumped up NRA supporting propagandarist.

“ WOOF ! ”

Since: Nov 12

Coolidge, AZ

#105833 Apr 28, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
And idiots like you can get one easily....who would you prefer to have a gun...and idiot or an old boiler...dumb troll.
If the people in your country don't want guns, then don't have them.

But our country WANTS an armed citizenry. And it's really none of your business if that's what we decided we want.

And they came in very handy about 230 years ago, when the citizens of our country VIOLENTLY OVERTHREW, WITH GUNS AND OTHER PERSONAL WEAPONS, YOUR MONARCHY.
public announcement

Germany

#105834 Apr 28, 2013
GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#105837 Apr 28, 2013
pistol wrote:
<quoted text> the issue isn't about what people need. Its about rights Mexico has the toughest gun laws in the world, yet hundreds of innocent people are murdered every month because they cannot defend themselves. Let's be logical
Another dumb troll coming in and spouting the same dumb bullshit that has been disproved time and time again....Yes Mexico has tough gun control but the Americans ignore that and smuggle gun across the Mexican border for profit and a good deal of them have already been discovered in the hands of the Mexican cartels...Mexico is a very poor country with high rates of corruption in it's law enforcement and judiciary....gun control works but it become a little harder when you are fighting those that would corrupt and smuggle to keep the drug dealers going..and America is their biggest customer...it is in their interest to do just like that ...so unlike America (at least Mexico is trying to clean up it's act)...America keeps getting in their way....

“ WOOF ! ”

Since: Nov 12

Coolidge, AZ

#105840 Apr 28, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
Another dumb troll coming in and spouting the same dumb bullshit that has been disproved time and time again....Yes Mexico has tough gun control but the Americans ignore that and smuggle gun across the Mexican border for profit and a good deal of them have already been discovered in the hands of the Mexican cartels...Mexico is a very poor country with high rates of corruption in it's law enforcement and judiciary....gun control works but it become a little harder when you are fighting those that would corrupt and smuggle to keep the drug dealers going..and America is their biggest customer...it is in their interest to do just like that ...so unlike America (at least Mexico is trying to clean up it's act)...America keeps getting in their way....
Use some logic for a change. If you outlaw guns, then only outlaws will have guns. And it's already illegal for a convicted criminal to possess a gun, and it is already illegal to use a gun in the commission of a crime. How are those laws workin out fer ya ?:)
lastbefirst

Australia

#105841 Apr 28, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
Another dumb troll coming in and spouting the same dumb bullshit that has been disproved time and time again....Yes Mexico has tough gun control but the Americans ignore that and smuggle gun across the Mexican border for profit and a good deal of them have already been discovered in the hands of the Mexican cartels...Mexico is a very poor country with high rates of corruption in it's law enforcement and judiciary....gun control works but it become a little harder when you are fighting those that would corrupt and smuggle to keep the drug dealers going..and America is their biggest customer...it is in their interest to do just like that ...so unlike America (at least Mexico is trying to clean up it's act)...America keeps getting in their way....
I agree 100% with you Ahomana, the Americans are the direct cause of the violence and cartel problem in Mexico, the very hypocrites.
just one question; do you really believe that the Australian judiciary is any less corrupt than those?.

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#105843 Apr 28, 2013
Fa-Foxy wrote:
<quoted text>
If the people in your country don't want guns, then don't have them.
But our country WANTS an armed citizenry. And it's really none of your business if that's what we decided we want.
And they came in very handy about 230 years ago, when the citizens of our country VIOLENTLY OVERTHREW, WITH GUNS AND OTHER PERSONAL WEAPONS, YOUR MONARCHY.
STFU if guns in your country didn't affect us we wouldn't give you idiots a second thought...but they do...America sells it's poison around the world to many countries in crisis..a lot of which is your feckin' doing...and sooner or later (like Iraq) that will again bring your filth to our shores...you have companies that thrive on the desperation and deaths of others like France, Germany, China, Russia...you are all out to make a profit no matter what the cost...you are scum...your mentality over your guns is a sick and twisted mentality....It is hilarious to watch the world and you included wanting to clean up green house gas and then you flood the world with your countries sick gun mentality...for again may I say profit...your are murderers..and if you only killed yourselves I for one would be overjoyed but you are not and you dumb c#nts, as I call them or you might call yourselves citizens of America (baring a handful, probably the same handful that discovered your lies and printed them over Iraq)are allowing this to happen...with your blinkers on...so I would like you and all America to take the time to slowly shove every gun you own up your arse, the same way your partner did last night and this time...really feel it, because that is what the rest of the world feels, that they are being fucked up the arse by big corporate western greed that America is right up there making sure they get theirs...and the boddies are piling up....

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#105844 Apr 28, 2013
There you go again wrote:
<quoted text>
if we wanted to be like you we would still have a queen
You are just jealous....I see you drooling wishing that you had kept royalty as the head of your nation...you might still have some class and not be recognised as the loud mouthed, brash and tacky, petulant, rich adolescent country you are, to the rest of the world...we are younger and control more respect....that is because we have royalty...hehe.

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