It's the Guns, Stupid

It's the Guns, Stupid

There are 103300 comments on the Truthdig story from Apr 20, 2007, titled It's the Guns, Stupid. In it, Truthdig reports that:

“And that's the end of the issue”

Why do we have the same futile argument every time there is a mass killing? Advocates of gun control try to open a discussion about whether more reasonable weapons statutes might reduce the number of violent ... via Truthdig

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Truthdig.

Since: Dec 10

Glandore, Australia

#105830 Apr 28, 2013
pistol wrote:
<quoted text>australian old boilder like you can only buy a firearm in your dream
And idiots like you can get one easily....who would you prefer to have a gun...and idiot or an old boiler...dumb troll.

Since: Dec 10

Glandore, Australia

#105831 Apr 28, 2013
Tray wrote:
<quoted text> But you have higher rates of everything else. Not a good trade.
Well none of that is true...but even if it was...which would you choose if you had to....the murder of children or general crime...I can't get over the absolute morons you have in your country....the answer would be the latter to everyone with a brain Tray.

Since: Dec 10

Glandore, Australia

#105832 Apr 28, 2013
Tray wrote:
<quoted text> Self defense is also prohibited there. Not a good trade.
No again you are not telling the truth...we have the right to use self defense, EQUAL FORCE self defense...if you know what that means?....You really should learn to get your facts straight Tray if you want to be seen to be credible and not some jumped up NRA supporting propagandarist.

“ WOOF ! ”

Since: Nov 12

Coolidge, AZ

#105833 Apr 28, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
And idiots like you can get one easily....who would you prefer to have a gun...and idiot or an old boiler...dumb troll.
If the people in your country don't want guns, then don't have them.

But our country WANTS an armed citizenry. And it's really none of your business if that's what we decided we want.

And they came in very handy about 230 years ago, when the citizens of our country VIOLENTLY OVERTHREW, WITH GUNS AND OTHER PERSONAL WEAPONS, YOUR MONARCHY.
public announcement

Germany

#105834 Apr 28, 2013
GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

GoGoBar is a child molesting Australian that moved to Thailand so he has easy access to the child sex club that he lives above

Since: Dec 10

Glandore, Australia

#105837 Apr 28, 2013
pistol wrote:
<quoted text> the issue isn't about what people need. Its about rights Mexico has the toughest gun laws in the world, yet hundreds of innocent people are murdered every month because they cannot defend themselves. Let's be logical
Another dumb troll coming in and spouting the same dumb bullshit that has been disproved time and time again....Yes Mexico has tough gun control but the Americans ignore that and smuggle gun across the Mexican border for profit and a good deal of them have already been discovered in the hands of the Mexican cartels...Mexico is a very poor country with high rates of corruption in it's law enforcement and judiciary....gun control works but it become a little harder when you are fighting those that would corrupt and smuggle to keep the drug dealers going..and America is their biggest customer...it is in their interest to do just like that ...so unlike America (at least Mexico is trying to clean up it's act)...America keeps getting in their way....

“ WOOF ! ”

Since: Nov 12

Coolidge, AZ

#105840 Apr 28, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
Another dumb troll coming in and spouting the same dumb bullshit that has been disproved time and time again....Yes Mexico has tough gun control but the Americans ignore that and smuggle gun across the Mexican border for profit and a good deal of them have already been discovered in the hands of the Mexican cartels...Mexico is a very poor country with high rates of corruption in it's law enforcement and judiciary....gun control works but it become a little harder when you are fighting those that would corrupt and smuggle to keep the drug dealers going..and America is their biggest customer...it is in their interest to do just like that ...so unlike America (at least Mexico is trying to clean up it's act)...America keeps getting in their way....
Use some logic for a change. If you outlaw guns, then only outlaws will have guns. And it's already illegal for a convicted criminal to possess a gun, and it is already illegal to use a gun in the commission of a crime. How are those laws workin out fer ya ?:)
lastbefirst

Australia

#105841 Apr 28, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
Another dumb troll coming in and spouting the same dumb bullshit that has been disproved time and time again....Yes Mexico has tough gun control but the Americans ignore that and smuggle gun across the Mexican border for profit and a good deal of them have already been discovered in the hands of the Mexican cartels...Mexico is a very poor country with high rates of corruption in it's law enforcement and judiciary....gun control works but it become a little harder when you are fighting those that would corrupt and smuggle to keep the drug dealers going..and America is their biggest customer...it is in their interest to do just like that ...so unlike America (at least Mexico is trying to clean up it's act)...America keeps getting in their way....
I agree 100% with you Ahomana, the Americans are the direct cause of the violence and cartel problem in Mexico, the very hypocrites.
just one question; do you really believe that the Australian judiciary is any less corrupt than those?.

Since: Dec 10

Glandore, Australia

#105843 Apr 28, 2013
Fa-Foxy wrote:
<quoted text>
If the people in your country don't want guns, then don't have them.
But our country WANTS an armed citizenry. And it's really none of your business if that's what we decided we want.
And they came in very handy about 230 years ago, when the citizens of our country VIOLENTLY OVERTHREW, WITH GUNS AND OTHER PERSONAL WEAPONS, YOUR MONARCHY.
STFU if guns in your country didn't affect us we wouldn't give you idiots a second thought...but they do...America sells it's poison around the world to many countries in crisis..a lot of which is your feckin' doing...and sooner or later (like Iraq) that will again bring your filth to our shores...you have companies that thrive on the desperation and deaths of others like France, Germany, China, Russia...you are all out to make a profit no matter what the cost...you are scum...your mentality over your guns is a sick and twisted mentality....It is hilarious to watch the world and you included wanting to clean up green house gas and then you flood the world with your countries sick gun mentality...for again may I say profit...your are murderers..and if you only killed yourselves I for one would be overjoyed but you are not and you dumb c#nts, as I call them or you might call yourselves citizens of America (baring a handful, probably the same handful that discovered your lies and printed them over Iraq)are allowing this to happen...with your blinkers on...so I would like you and all America to take the time to slowly shove every gun you own up your arse, the same way your partner did last night and this time...really feel it, because that is what the rest of the world feels, that they are being fucked up the arse by big corporate western greed that America is right up there making sure they get theirs...and the boddies are piling up....

Since: Dec 10

Glandore, Australia

#105844 Apr 28, 2013
There you go again wrote:
<quoted text>
if we wanted to be like you we would still have a queen
You are just jealous....I see you drooling wishing that you had kept royalty as the head of your nation...you might still have some class and not be recognised as the loud mouthed, brash and tacky, petulant, rich adolescent country you are, to the rest of the world...we are younger and control more respect....that is because we have royalty...hehe.

Since: Dec 10

Glandore, Australia

#105848 Apr 28, 2013
And for anyone who says we stand by America 100% they are lying...we stand by Britain 100% New Zealand 100% but we only involve ourselves militarily, with America when we have to...that is the truth...not the bullshit others will tell you...they are suck ups and don't know our history well!
Our history has and always will, be tied to Britain and any sovereign British country, they call we go.
America has never had any credibility here even before WW2 and their dismal late entry into that war.

Since: Oct 12

Rochelle, GA

#105851 Apr 28, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>You are just jealous....I see you drooling wishing that you had kept royalty as the head of your nation...you might still have some class and not be recognised as the loud mouthed, brash and tacky, petulant, rich adolescent country you are, to the rest of the world...we are younger and control more respect....that is because we have royalty...hehe.
lol right

Since: Dec 10

Glandore, Australia

#105852 Apr 28, 2013
lastbefirst wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree 100% with you Ahomana, the Americans are the direct cause of the violence and cartel problem in Mexico, the very hypocrites.
just one question; do you really believe that the Australian judiciary is any less corrupt than those?.
Whose Mexico's? if so the answer is yes, because even though it falls short we follow a better system...the Westminster system whereby there is some corruption but on the whole it's failure is more often than not because of ineffectual sentences for harsh crimes....ie a computer cracker or black hat gets a longer term in prison for accessing NASA or the CIA than a murderer of children...that is ridiculous the penalty of murder or attempted murder should be given the toughest sentences there are with no chance of parole...that is not happening and that is the fault of the law makers not the judiciary system.

Since: Dec 10

Glandore, Australia

#105854 Apr 28, 2013
There you go again wrote:
<quoted text>
lol right
Look at your avatar and tell me you are not a country of bloody gun ho meat heads with no sense of propitiatory, we don't need to have your sickness permeate decent society...animals have to be killed for food, as most people know, but you make a statement of your kill...which displays your inability to know what offends others....you are a dumb immature Yankee gun owning twat, and it shows. You wouldn't see that on one of ours or the British threads...only in Yankee land...

Since: Dec 10

Glandore, Australia

#105855 Apr 28, 2013
Fa-Foxy wrote:
<quoted text>
Use some logic for a change. If you outlaw guns, then only outlaws will have guns. And it's already illegal for a convicted criminal to possess a gun, and it is already illegal to use a gun in the commission of a crime. How are those laws workin out fer ya ?:)
How will the outlaws get those guns seeing they can't get them legally...where do they obtain them...how are your weak watered down laws working for you there?...our laws are working excellently as you well know...they make your country seem backward and ignorant in comparrison.
GoGoBar

Thailand

#105856 Apr 28, 2013
Yemen total murder rate 4.2/100K

Thailand murder rate 4.8/100K

USA total Murder rate 4.8

USA GUN MUrder rate 3.7

4.8-3.7= 1.1

Australia Total Murder rate =1.1

UK Total Murder rate=1.2

Canada total Murder rate 1.6/100K

Germany total murder rate 0.8/100K


Looks like the guns are the major difference.
LOL
lastbefirst

Australia

#105859 Apr 28, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
Whose Mexico's? if so the answer is yes, because even though it falls short we follow a better system...the Westminster system whereby there is some corruption but on the whole it's failure is more often than not because of ineffectual sentences for harsh crimes....ie a computer cracker or black hat gets a longer term in prison for accessing NASA or the CIA than a murderer of children...that is ridiculous the penalty of murder or attempted murder should be given the toughest sentences there are with no chance of parole...that is not happening and that is the fault of the law makers not the judiciary system.
If I was to tell you about a couple of cases incredible and extraordinary that I am aware of; you would fall backwards; the truth is that westminister or not; the judicial system is still based on the roman model; CORRUPT, DIRTY, nepotistic, arbitrary, full of drugaddict low lifes worse than the criminals themselves; actually,it seems that the philosophy when it comes to hiring people to fight crims is to get even worse crims ( to keep them under control).
anyway, one thing I have learned over the years is that lawyers would sell their mother to the highest bidder, here or in Mexico or in china.

“ WOOF ! ”

Since: Nov 12

Coolidge, AZ

#105860 Apr 28, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
How will the outlaws get those guns seeing they can't get them legally...where do they obtain them...how are your weak watered down laws working for you there?...our laws are working excellently as you well know...they make your country seem backward and ignorant in comparrison.
Our guns are as American as Apple Pie and whiskey, and the American people want them. and it is our CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO POSSESS THEM. If you don't like that, then please don't come over here.
GoGoBar

Thailand

#105862 Apr 28, 2013
Policy Conclusion of Gary Kleck who's study showed that Guns are used defensively between 800,000 and 2.5 million times per year.

Therefore, the significance of the few gun control measures found to be effective should not be overlooked. There is empirical support for some moderate gun controls. I favor a national "instant records check," which would screen for high-risk gun buyers similar to owner license and purchase permit systems, but without the delays and arbitrary administration which sometimes characterizes those controls. The system should cover nondealer transactions as well as dealer sales, and apply to rifles and shotguns, as well as handguns. Also, tighter licensing of gun dealers and increased enforcement of carry laws may be useful.

Gun control is a very minor, though not entirely irrelevant, part of the solution to the violence problem, just as guns are of only very minor significance as a cause of the problem. The U.S. has more violence than other nations for reasons unrelated to its extraordinarily high gun ownership. Fixating on guns seems to be, for many people, a fetish which allows them to ignore the more intransigent causes of American violence, including its dying cities, inequality, deteriorating family structure, and the all- pervasive economic and social consequences of a history of slavery and racism. And just as gun control serves this purpose for liberals, equally useless "get tough" proposals, like longer prison terms, mandatory sentencing, and more use of the death penalty serve the purpose for conservatives. All parties to the crime debate would do well to give more concentrated attention to more difficult, but far more relevant, issues like how to generate more good-paying jobs for the underclass which is at the heart of the violence problem.

“ WOOF ! ”

Since: Nov 12

Coolidge, AZ

#105863 Apr 28, 2013
Anyone who ever would try to take away our arms and ammunition would be met with armed force.

And I find it amusing that the liberals' recent attempt at "gun control" had the opposite effect of what they intended because many people, fearing new legal restrictions on firearms and ammunition, caused a huge upsurge in the sales of the very thing the liberals were trying to outlaw.

"from my cold dead hands......"

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