It's the Guns, Stupid

Apr 20, 2007 Full story: Truthdig 103,350

“And that's the end of the issue”

Why do we have the same futile argument every time there is a mass killing? Advocates of gun control try to open a discussion about whether more reasonable weapons statutes might reduce the number of violent ... via Truthdig

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GoGoBar is a sex offender

United States

#105772 Apr 28, 2013
GoGoBar is a petophile who chooses to live in Thailand to escape prosecution for his petophile crimes.

GoGoBar is a petophile who chooses to live in Thailand to escape prosecution for his petophile crimes.

GoGoBar is a petophile who chooses to live in Thailand to escape prosecution for his petophile crimes.

GoGoBar is a petophile who chooses to live in Thailand to escape prosecution for his petophile crimes.

GoGoBar is a petophile who chooses to live in Thailand to escape prosecution for his petophile crimes.

GoGoBar is a petophile who chooses to live in Thailand to escape prosecution for his petophile crimes.

GoGoBar is a petophile who chooses to live in Thailand to escape prosecution for his petophile crimes.

GoGoBar is a petophile who chooses to live in Thailand to escape prosecution for his petophile crimes.

GoGoBar is a petophile who chooses to live in Thailand to escape prosecution for his petophile crimes.

GoGoBar is a petophile who chooses to live in Thailand to escape prosecution for his petophile crimes.

GoGoBar is a petophile who chooses to live in Thailand to escape prosecution for his petophile crimes.

GoGoBar is a petophile who chooses to live in Thailand to escape prosecution for his petophile crimes.

GoGoBar is a petophile who chooses to live in Thailand to escape prosecution for his petophile crimes.

GoGoBar is a petophile who chooses to live in Thailand to escape prosecution for his petophile crimes.

GoGoBar is a petophile who chooses to live in Thailand to escape prosecution for his petophile crimes.

GoGoBar is a petophile who chooses to live in Thailand to escape prosecution for his petophile crimes.

GoGoBar is a petophile who chooses to live in Thailand to escape prosecution for his petophile crimes.

GoGoBar is a petophile who chooses to live in Thailand to escape prosecution for his petophile crimes.

GoGoBar is a petophile who chooses to live in Thailand to escape prosecution for his petophile crimes.

GoGoBar is a petophile who chooses to live in Thailand to escape prosecution for his petophile crimes.

GoGoBar is a petophile who chooses to live in Thailand to escape prosecution for his petophile crimes.

GoGoBar is a petophile who chooses to live in Thailand to escape prosecution for his petophile crimes.

GoGoBar is a petophile who chooses to live in Thailand to escape prosecution for his petophile crimes.

GoGoBar is a petophile who chooses to live in Thailand to escape prosecution for his petophile crimes.

GoGoBar is a petophile who chooses to live in Thailand to escape prosecution for his petophile crimes.

GoGoBar is a petophile who chooses to live in Thailand to escape prosecution for his petophile crimes.

GoGoBar is a petophile who chooses to live in Thailand to escape prosecution for his petophile crimes.

GoGoBar is a petophile who chooses to live in Thailand to escape prosecution for his petophile crimes.

GoGoBar is a petophile who chooses to live in Thailand to escape prosecution for his petophile crimes.

GoGoBar is a petophile who chooses to live in Thailand to escape prosecution for his petophile crimes.

GoGoBar is a petophile who chooses to live in Thailand to escape prosecution for his petophile crimes.

GoGoBar is a petophile who chooses to live in Thailand to escape prosecution for his petophile crimes.

GoGoBar is a petophile who chooses to live in Thailand to escape prosecution for his petophile crimes.

GoGoBar is a petophile who chooses to live in Thailand to escape prosecution for his petophile crimes.

GoGoBar is a petophile who chooses to live in Thailand to escape prosecution for his petophile crimes.

GoGoBar is a petophile who chooses to live in Thailand to escape prosecution for his petophile crimes.

GoGoBar is a petophile who chooses to live in Thailand to escape prosecution for his petophile crimes.

GoGoBar is a petophile who chooses to live in Thailand to escape prosecution for his petophile crimes.
Larry

Australia

#105774 Apr 28, 2013
Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
A gun is used to protect. It depends on your perspective.
Have you heard of Mayor Bloomberg of New York? He is trying to end the biggest killer of our time, natural causes.
No I disagree, if you pull out a gun that is a threat.

Otherwise you could just pull out a vegimite and cheese sandwich saying here you go mate.

You pull out a gun as a threat to shoot, to kill. It's a weapon.

Protection is a condom which protects from STIs aye.. Nasty those diseases..

Protection is a helmate for your motorcycle

Protection is a bullet proof vest to protect you from a bullet!

A gun is a weapon designed to kill, lets not beat around the bush mate.

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#105775 Apr 28, 2013
republican supporter wrote:
<quoted text>wrong women are evil trouble makes for men and are scared walking alone at night,they cheat ,masturbate at home when their husbands are at work,use sex to make money from men,
Do you think women would be scared to walk at night if there were NO men to rape attack or murder them?
Teaman

Mount Holly, NJ

#105776 Apr 28, 2013
Larry wrote:
<quoted text>
No I disagree, if you pull out a gun that is a threat.
Otherwise you could just pull out a vegimite and cheese sandwich saying here you go mate.
You pull out a gun as a threat to shoot, to kill. It's a weapon.
Protection is a condom which protects from STIs aye.. Nasty those diseases..
Protection is a helmate for your motorcycle
Protection is a bullet proof vest to protect you from a bullet!
A gun is a weapon designed to kill, lets not beat around the bush mate.
If a store clerk is being robbed at gunpoint and the clerk pulls out a gun and shoots the robber and kills him, it was protection. A different perspective from behind the counter.:-)

Before you get into property crimes and give him what he wants, we have animals here that would shoot you just for the fun of it after he has what he wanted. I don't believe you have that element in your society yet. Before you get into gun control, these animals aren't supposed to have them now.
Tray

Tupelo, MS

#105777 Apr 28, 2013
Larry wrote:
I support the USA all their conflicts, Saddam Hussein was an evil dictator and threat to world peace. A strong United States is a Safe world in my opinion.
The United States uses its powerful position as a peace keeper. Australia is a close alli of the USA, people are always going to complain and say oh they were after oil or opium or whatever, but at the end of the day saddam hussein is dead, Ossama bin laden is dead. These were evil people who committed the most horrific crimes. Australia will always support the USA 100 percent in these situations. Back to the topic of guns we are not telling the Americans what to do, ultimately they will do what they like, we can only share our experience and reccomend that they take action on gun control.
While I appreciate the recommendation we also have had great experience with gun control. Our experience shows gun control to be dangerous and in the long term to usually lead to government corruption and increase in violent crime rate. Most on here want to compare the U.S. only to Australia but when a world comparison is used and a longer historical comparison then gun control usually fails.
Teaman

Mount Holly, NJ

#105778 Apr 28, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
Why does America need them?
Why does anyone need them? I thought we were on the road to getting rid of them when Reagan was president, but apparently not.

Since: Oct 12

Moultrie, GA

#105779 Apr 28, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>Or just kill off all the men....
or put the women back In the kitchen where they belong
Tray

Tupelo, MS

#105780 Apr 28, 2013
Larry wrote:
<quoted text> thats a ridiculous notion, a car is used for transportation, a gun is used to kill. Car accidents happen, but you dont go out and buy a car and go on an "accident spree"
Thats the equivalent of saying we will ban coca cola and take away because it causes obesity and heart attacks.
A gun is designed to kill, that is its sole purpose. Most people driving do the right thing, and we punish those who dont. Work place accidents occur also, but just like driving, its sole purpose is not to kill or threaten to kill.
I am against all weapons designed to kill, a police officer is the only person who should have a gun in my opinion.
But cars are used to murder. Drunk driving, speeding, are intentional actions not accidents, those who do them know their actions are deadly. Regardless of it's intended purpose it is still a main case of death. A gun is simply a metal tube that uses a chemical reaction to propel an object. The operator, just like a car, decides it's purpose. To continue to blame one tool is simplistic. People killed each other just fine for thousands of years with a multitude of weapons or just basic items like rocks and sticks and yes their hands. Like cars, guns have only been on Earth a short speck of time and will eventually be replace by more efficient machines or devices. You are trying to put a band aid on a cancer. Nice idea and sounds good but worthless and in some cases more harm than good. At one time the more intelligent (doctors) thought bleeding a sick person was a cure but it was worthless and many died because of it but hey it sounded good and they were doing "something". The age old fail "we must do something even if it's the wrong thing".
Larry

Australia

#105781 Apr 28, 2013
Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
If a store clerk is being robbed at gunpoint and the clerk pulls out a gun and shoots the robber and kills him, it was protection. A different perspective from behind the counter.:-)
Before you get into property crimes and give him what he wants, we have animals here that would shoot you just for the fun of it after he has what he wanted. I don't believe you have that element in your society yet. Before you get into gun control, these animals aren't supposed to have them now.


If a store clerk is being robbed in Australia we hand over the till!

The criminal is caught on video, and as soon as the criminal leaves the police are called.

90% of the time the criminal is identified and caught. The money is returned or claimed back on insurance. The criminal goes to jail.

We have more holdups with knives same deal, hand over cash they are later caught.

We dont try and be heros here.
Tray

Tupelo, MS

#105782 Apr 28, 2013
Larry wrote:
<quoted text>
If a store clerk is being robbed in Australia we hand over the till!
The criminal is caught on video, and as soon as the criminal leaves the police are called.
90% of the time the criminal is identified and caught. The money is returned or claimed back on insurance. The criminal goes to jail.
We have more holdups with knives same deal, hand over cash they are later caught.
We dont try and be heros here.
Less than 10% of crime is solved. Less than 5% will be convicted. Less the 1% will serve a full sentence before being on the street again. Most criminals don't stop at one crime. The escalate until violent actions and yes murder become their mo. If you don't want to be a hero then fine but don't judge me because I don't want to be a dead defenseless victim to a criminal I owe nothing including making sure he is safe in his line of work. Go to your local prison and sit down in a cell with these harmless criminals then get back to me.
Larry

Australia

#105783 Apr 28, 2013
Tray wrote:
<quoted text> While I appreciate the recommendation we also have had great experience with gun control. Our experience shows gun control to be dangerous and in the long term to usually lead to government corruption and increase in violent crime rate. Most on here want to compare the U.S. only to Australia but when a world comparison is used and a longer historical comparison then gun control usually fails.
Ok then mate, there must be some other reason we have lower rates of shooting deaths and those rates have improved favourably since new gun control measures were put in place.

Rates have nothing to do with the size of a population remember. Those rates have already been provided in this discussion, it is pretty clear where more gun

Less firearm hold ups, lower suicide rate. Must just be coincidence.

John Howard used his authority to bring about significant tightening of gun laws on a national level. We knew it was the right thing and supported him, It would be nice to see Obama get support for gun controls.
Teaman

Mount Holly, NJ

#105784 Apr 28, 2013
Larry wrote:
<quoted text>
If a store clerk is being robbed in Australia we hand over the till!
The criminal is caught on video, and as soon as the criminal leaves the police are called.
90% of the time the criminal is identified and caught. The money is returned or claimed back on insurance. The criminal goes to jail.
We have more holdups with knives same deal, hand over cash they are later caught.
We dont try and be heros here.
As I said, you probably can't comprehend the low life forms we have here. The videos here quite often document a killing. Sometimes I think being a store clerk working in one of these 24 hour places late at night is more dangerous than being a cop.

It's good to have civilized criminals, aye mate?:-)
Larry

Australia

#105785 Apr 28, 2013
Tray wrote:
<quoted text> But cars are used to murder. Drunk driving, speeding, are intentional actions not accidents, those who do them know their actions are deadly. Regardless of it's intended purpose it is still a main case of death. A gun is simply a metal tube that uses a chemical reaction to propel an object. The operator, just like a car, decides it's purpose. To continue to blame one tool is simplistic. People killed each other just fine for thousands of years with a multitude of weapons or just basic items like rocks and sticks and yes their hands. Like cars, guns have only been on Earth a short speck of time and will eventually be replace by more efficient machines or devices. You are trying to put a band aid on a cancer. Nice idea and sounds good but worthless and in some cases more harm than good. At one time the more intelligent (doctors) thought bleeding a sick person was a cure but it was worthless and many died because of it but hey it sounded good and they were doing "something". The age old fail "we must do something even if it's the wrong thing".


A person does not use a car to go on a killing spree.

A person does not use a car to murder 35 people.
Tray

Tupelo, MS

#105786 Apr 28, 2013
Larry wrote:
<quoted text>
If a store clerk is being robbed in Australia we hand over the till!
The criminal is caught on video, and as soon as the criminal leaves the police are called.
90% of the time the criminal is identified and caught. The money is returned or claimed back on insurance. The criminal goes to jail.
We have more holdups with knives same deal, hand over cash they are later caught.
We dont try and be heros here.
If you had a 90% capture rate then in a few months you would have stopped robberies because they would all be in jail. Any not caught would stop doing crime because they would know there is only a 10% chance of getting away with it and that's with just one robbery. If they were to continue their life of crime it would lead to their capture by the third crime. Is Australia crime free? Are your police out of a job because crime has been eliminated?
Teaman

Mount Holly, NJ

#105787 Apr 28, 2013
Larry wrote:
<quoted text>
A person does not use a car to go on a killing spree.
A person does not use a car to murder 35 people.
Except in a drive by shooting.:-)
Larry

Australia

#105788 Apr 28, 2013
Tray wrote:
<quoted text> Less than 10% of crime is solved. Less than 5% will be convicted. Less the 1% will serve a full sentence before being on the street again. Most criminals don't stop at one crime. The escalate until violent actions and yes murder become their mo. If you don't want to be a hero then fine but don't judge me because I don't want to be a dead defenseless victim to a criminal I owe nothing including making sure he is safe in his line of work. Go to your local prison and sit down in a cell with these harmless criminals then get back to me.
most stores in Australia have video surveillance. Even people wearing balaclavers are caught via car rego and other details. The majority of armed hold ups are actually solved in Australia. Its pretty heavy jail time also!
Tray

Tupelo, MS

#105789 Apr 28, 2013
Larry wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok then mate, there must be some other reason we have lower rates of shooting deaths and those rates have improved favourably since new gun control measures were put in place.
Rates have nothing to do with the size of a population remember. Those rates have already been provided in this discussion, it is pretty clear where more gun
Less firearm hold ups, lower suicide rate. Must just be coincidence.
John Howard used his authority to bring about significant tightening of gun laws on a national level. We knew it was the right thing and supported him, It would be nice to see Obama get support for gun controls.
All debunked. Shooting deaths are acceptable when it's in defense or stopping a criminal. Cops carry guns and yes shoot people and these are acceptable so why should it be different for a victim of a violent crime to do the same? The #1 cause of death for young men in Japan is suicide (no guns) lower suicide with no guns DEBUNKED. Gun control in your country lead to 4x higher violent crime. Not a very good trade. You already had a very low gun crime rate. You have less "firearm" hold ups but by your own admission you still have a high "armed" holdup rate. Only now the victim is at the mercy of the criminal( criminals are not known for mercy). Even your own studies say gun control had little to do with Australian crime rate.
pistol

Pioneer, CA

#105790 Apr 28, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you think women would be scared to walk at night if there were NO men to rape attack or murder them?
don't manipulate me or i will shoot you with my pistol i have extraordinary power over women when i point a gun at them
Tray

Tupelo, MS

#105791 Apr 28, 2013
Larry wrote:
<quoted text>
A person does not use a car to go on a killing spree.
A person does not use a car to murder 35 people.
Yes they do. They use cars to get to and from their crime location. They use cars to transport their stolen items. They use cars to transport victims.
Almost 1 in 5 Pedestrian Deaths Are Tied to Hit-and-Run Drivers

Nearly 1,000 people are killed by hit-and-run drivers each year, about 18 percent of all pedestrian deaths, according to a new study by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

Pedestrians make up about one-eighth of the people killed in motor vehicle crashes, 4,882 of the 42,116 killed in 2001, the last year for which full statistics are available.The number of pedestrians killed by hit-and-run drivers has jumped 20% since 2000 and is at its highest level in a decade, a USA TODAY analysis shows.

The increase compounds the problems of investigating hit-and-run cases, which investigators say are among the most difficult crimes to solve because they often happen at night with no witnesses.

"Even if you're lucky enough to get the car, you can't always get the driver," says Richard Ashton of the International Association of Chiefs of Police.

Of the 4,881 pedestrians killed last year, 974 died in hit-and-runs, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration records show. The total number of pedestrians killed nationwide increased by about 2% since 2000, but hit-and-run deaths increased at almost 10 times that pace, the USA TODAY analysis found.
Larry

Australia

#105792 Apr 28, 2013
Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
As I said, you probably can't comprehend the low life forms we have here. The videos here quite often document a killing. Sometimes I think being a store clerk working in one of these 24 hour places late at night is more dangerous than being a cop.
It's good to have civilized criminals, aye mate?:-)
I understand what you mean you have a.. how do I put it... Wider mix of peoples..

I still think the case for gun control is very strong. We have some places in Australia that are quite rough. In alice springs a German tourist was assulted by an indigenous man punched several times for no reason at all. Totally unprovoked! It was caught on camera, and was a very unfortunate incident. people like that would be even more dangerous if they had access to a firearm. The offending man was dealt with accordingly.

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