It's the Guns, Stupid

It's the Guns, Stupid

There are 103300 comments on the Truthdig story from Apr 20, 2007, titled It's the Guns, Stupid. In it, Truthdig reports that:

“And that's the end of the issue”

Why do we have the same futile argument every time there is a mass killing? Advocates of gun control try to open a discussion about whether more reasonable weapons statutes might reduce the number of violent ... via Truthdig

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Truthdig.

sid

Chermside, Australia

#105313 Apr 23, 2013
Tray wrote:
<quoted text> If Australians are of such "good character" then why do you need laws that limit your freedoms? A people of "good character" don't need to have items removed from them by force because they are of "good character". It would be more logical to deduce that anti gun laws were passed because you had so many of "bad character" who were misusing them.
You contradict your own stance on guns with this statement, we take guns off people so they can't use them because human nature is such that until man can govern himself he must be governed.

Since: Dec 10

Glandore, Australia

#105314 Apr 23, 2013
Tray wrote:
<quoted text> If Australians are of such "good character" then why do you need laws that limit your freedoms? A people of "good character" don't need to have items removed from them by force because they are of "good character". It would be more logical to deduce that anti gun laws were passed because you had so many of "bad character" who were misusing them.
Same reason why you have them to inform people that if they are not considerate of others there is a penalty...often all need to be reminded of that....if you think that people are naturally decent to one another, go to a car parks at the after a football match after church service or a busy shopping center were there are no speed limits or rules, then watch the circus as they race each other to get home....dolt.

Since: Dec 10

Glandore, Australia

#105315 Apr 23, 2013
ahomoron wrote:
America will continue to rule the world and australians will sit and complain on the sidelines like good little peasants and they can bitch all they want
Americans have always been full of themselves, like the difference between Canada and America during a crisis....America after the boston bombing which their intelligence missed even though they were given a heads up two years previously....finally caught the alledged bomber...they then lined up everyone in the town and around the country on the mike and patted each other on the back...arseholes.....Canada foils...that means stops an attack that could have killed thousands and you get one person for a few minutes who thank everyone, classy....now I don't think anyone should get a pat on the back for doing their job....but if their is a right way or a wrong way...Canada wins my vote....America was just big and brash and tacky as always....too young and stupid I suppose.
Tray

Belden, MS

#105316 Apr 23, 2013
sid wrote:
<quoted text>
You contradict your own stance on guns with this statement, we take guns off people so they can't use them because human nature is such that until man can govern himself he must be governed.
I didn't say it worked. You projected Australians were of "better character" because you banned guns, which contradicts the term "of good character". If you must forced to not misuse a simple tool then their is no "good character". It would seem it's you that contradicted yourself.
boredguy

Camperdown, Australia

#105317 Apr 23, 2013
Larry wrote:
I dont see any benifits to excess non Western migrants. Some of them are pretty different to us and just cause problems, so we don't want that aye. You guys cant even say the word black aye?
We are not going to disrespect our British heritage by becoming a place of opposing religions etc Thats just a foreseeable disaster. They can practice all that stuff in their own country, we don t have strong religious beliefs.
Also we dont want a big population because of environmental concerns and congestion in cities and on transport.
British, Danes , Germans Dutch, Irish, French etc shouldt be a problem if they are of good Chatacter.
I agree. I wonder why your post got negative judgements when you're just stating facts. Multiculturalism is a miserable failure everywhere - in fact the German and Dutch govts have officially pronounced it a failure (the UK and France obviously don't have the balls to do the same, because that would be 'racism' so they just ignore the fact that some of their cities look like Third World countries).

Muslims in particular have given no benefits to Australia, only a lot of headaches we didn't have before they came.
Tray

Belden, MS

#105318 Apr 23, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
Same reason why you have them to inform people that if they are not considerate of others there is a penalty...often all need to be reminded of that....if you think that people are naturally decent to one another, go to a car parks at the after a football match after church service or a busy shopping center were there are no speed limits or rules, then watch the circus as they race each other to get home....dolt.
But you don't punish the considerate by banning their cars because "some" misuse them. You only punish those who break the law not the innocent who have done nothing wrong. The inconsiderate still break speed limits and make a circus of crowded parking lots even with laws. Laws stop nothing, just provide punishment after the fact. If you think laws change human nature and make them decent to each other then feel free to visit your local prison and see how many the laws did not stop. ask your local police how many reports of crime they take daily and ask how many of those crimes will be solved and someone punished for committing these crimes. 10% or less caught and much less than that will receive ANY punishment. Ask them how many crimes were not prevented by there being laws against the action. Ask your local police why they have a job if laws stop crime BEFORE it happens.
Tray

Belden, MS

#105319 Apr 23, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
Americans have always been full of themselves, like the difference between Canada and America during a crisis....America after the boston bombing which their intelligence missed even though they were given a heads up two years previously....finally caught the alledged bomber...they then lined up everyone in the town and around the country on the mike and patted each other on the back...arseholes.....Canada foils...that means stops an attack that could have killed thousands and you get one person for a few minutes who thank everyone, classy....now I don't think anyone should get a pat on the back for doing their job....but if their is a right way or a wrong way...Canada wins my vote....America was just big and brash and tacky as always....too young and stupid I suppose.
Maybe you want to recheck your facts. The Canadians were tipped off by a citizen. They did nothing on their own.
Larry

Australia

#105320 Apr 23, 2013
Tray wrote:
<quoted text> If Australians are of such "good character" then why do you need laws that limit your freedoms? A people of "good character" don't need to have items removed from them by force because they are of "good character". It would be more logical to deduce that anti gun laws were passed because you had so many of "bad character" who were misusing them.
Every society around the world has people of bad character, and people of good character that get angry, upset, depressed, enraged, or just snap. Thats why we do away with guns.

Since: Dec 10

Glandore, Australia

#105321 Apr 23, 2013
Tray wrote:
<quoted text> But you don't punish the considerate by banning their cars because "some" misuse them. You only punish those who break the law not the innocent who have done nothing wrong. The inconsiderate still break speed limits and make a circus of crowded parking lots even with laws. Laws stop nothing, just provide punishment after the fact. If you think laws change human nature and make them decent to each other then feel free to visit your local prison and see how many the laws did not stop. ask your local police how many reports of crime they take daily and ask how many of those crimes will be solved and someone punished for committing these crimes. 10% or less caught and much less than that will receive ANY punishment. Ask them how many crimes were not prevented by there being laws against the action. Ask your local police why they have a job if laws stop crime BEFORE it happens.
No, but then no one is taking your gun are they?...restrictions of cars.... make everyone wear a seat belt,(bike riders helmets) drive at 2 miles an hour in a school zone...regulate the size of your tires...engine etc give you yellow and red stickers if your car is not up to scratch....everything has restrictions place on them for good reasons...so should those who own or collect guns and the guns themselves as they would fishermen and swimmers etc....eh!
Larry

Australia

#105322 Apr 23, 2013
Tray wrote:
<quoted text> But you don't punish the considerate by banning their cars because "some" misuse them. You only punish those who break the law not the innocent who have done nothing wrong. The inconsiderate still break speed limits and make a circus of crowded parking lots even with laws. Laws stop nothing, just provide punishment after the fact. If you think laws change human nature and make them decent to each other then feel free to visit your local prison and see how many the laws did not stop. ask your local police how many reports of crime they take daily and ask how many of those crimes will be solved and someone punished for committing these crimes. 10% or less caught and much less than that will receive ANY punishment. Ask them how many crimes were not prevented by there being laws against the action. Ask your local police why they have a job if laws stop crime BEFORE it happens.
well we do punish people who mis -use cars we impound the cars and the dickhead looses its licence. People dont kill 36 ,people from a traffic accident, even if its a bus! We alteady put effort into road safety, I say we could do even more with testing etc a lot.of people cant even park a car proberly with the wheels straight, or pull onto a highway with only one lane free of traffic. Imagine if we had guns for those situations! Good thing we dont!
Teaman

Abingdon, VA

#105323 Apr 23, 2013
Larry wrote:
<quoted text>
Every society around the world has people of bad character, and people of good character that get angry, upset, depressed, enraged, or just snap. Thats why we do away with guns.
The end result is the people with the bad character end up with all of the guns.:-)
Teaman

Abingdon, VA

#105324 Apr 23, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
No, but then no one is taking your gun are they?...restrictions of cars.... make everyone wear a seat belt,(bike riders helmets) drive at 2 miles an hour in a school zone...regulate the size of your tires...engine etc give you yellow and red stickers if your car is not up to scratch....everything has restrictions place on them for good reasons...so should those who own or collect guns and the guns themselves as they would fishermen and swimmers etc....eh!
All of those restrictions are state restrictions here. One has to wear a motorcycle helmet in my state, but you can take it off as soon as you cross the bridge to Pennsylvania. Seat belts are voluntary in New Hampshire, and so on. A problem arises when the federal government imposes restrictions that that collide with state law.

Colorado is an example. The [people] there voted to legalize marijuana, but a federal law against it is still in effect against the will of the people of Colorado.

Since: Dec 10

Glandore, Australia

#105325 Apr 23, 2013
Tray wrote:
<quoted text> Maybe you want to recheck your facts. The Canadians were tipped off by a citizen. They did nothing on their own.
Yes, and they acted on that advise thoroughly to the point it led them to "PREVENT" a potential threat...well done Canada!
Larry

Australia

#105326 Apr 23, 2013
boredguy wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree. I wonder why your post got negative judgements when you're just stating facts. Multiculturalism is a miserable failure everywhere - in fact the German and Dutch govts have officially pronounced it a failure (the UK and France obviously don't have the balls to do the same, because that would be 'racism' so they just ignore the fact that some of their cities look like Third World countries).
Muslims in particular have given no benefits to Australia, only a lot of headaches we didn't have before they came.
Yeah absolutely, its as common sense as the guns issue. We have seen what its effect has been in other countries, so we say no, we dont really want that here, we don t see the point and or any benifits from multiculturalism. We have tested out multiculturalism, and a lot of the people just ended up in jail, so we look at it objectively and say no, it doesnt work, no more from non western places unless they are highly skilled and of good character. I have no issues with that, I would never be accepted into Iran or pakistan or Botswana. Not that I would want to, I d rather go to Canada or England where I have family and dont feel out of place.

Since: Dec 10

Glandore, Australia

#105327 Apr 23, 2013
Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
All of those restrictions are state restrictions here. One has to wear a motorcycle helmet in my state, but you can take it off as soon as you cross the bridge to Pennsylvania. Seat belts are voluntary in New Hampshire, and so on. A problem arises when the federal government imposes restrictions that that collide with state law.
Colorado is an example. The [people] there voted to legalize marijuana, but a federal law against it is still in effect against the will of the people of Colorado.
See out restrictions are across all states...for a reason, it can't work effectively if only one or two states comply....it must be fully inclusive. You are continually fighting against yourself...if you have one law in one state but can go across the state line and it is non existent it is confusing and ineffectual....All or nothing, black or white, Teaman, citizens comply if everyone is subject to the same laws...if not you have what you have...total chaos.
Tm Clmns

Victoria, Canada

#105328 Apr 23, 2013
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>you mean Criminals can't be safe so long as guns are legal!
Wrong... criminals get all the legal guns...
Larry

Australia

#105329 Apr 23, 2013
Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
The end result is the people with the bad character end up with all of the guns.:-)
well that was an arguement here by the farmers etc, but the statistics paint a pretty clear picture, it worked. Gun crime went down, suicides even went down. Thats a pretty desirable set of statistics
Now we are on to tackling drugs and obesity, and alcohol related assults. Cleaning up society. We are doing a good job. people are pretty good for the most part, but you crack down on these things, and you do get results. Its in everyones interest, and helps us maintain a relaxed,safe and productive society.
Tm Clmns

Victoria, Canada

#105330 Apr 23, 2013
Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you kidding me? Bearing and keeping arms is a constitutional right. Those dumb republicans actually compromised our rights away with democrats with the Manchin-Toomey compromise.
I'm glad enough republicans and democrats realized it isn't about the guns.
In my estimation, we have a far left party and a center left party.
You are one of those people who can't tell the left from the right...
Teaman

Abingdon, VA

#105331 Apr 23, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
See out restrictions are across all states...for a reason, it can't work effectively if only one or two states comply....it must be fully inclusive. You are continually fighting against yourself...if you have one law in one state but can go across the state line and it is non existent it is confusing and ineffectual....All or nothing, black or white, Teaman, citizens comply if everyone is subject to the same laws...if not you have what you have...total chaos.
Call it a concern over a totalitarian government, it's not really chaos. People have the choice to live where conditions please them. Most of my family moved to Georgia. It's a freedom of choice.

As far as guns crossing state lines, there is a federal law against that under the interstate commerce clause if they would only enforce it. My state has severe penalties for illegally importing guns.

Teaman

Abingdon, VA

#105332 Apr 23, 2013
Tm Clmns wrote:
<quoted text>
You are one of those people who can't tell the left from the right...
You're one of those people that have your head up your ass.

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