It's the Guns, Stupid

It's the Guns, Stupid

There are 103296 comments on the Truthdig story from Apr 20, 2007, titled It's the Guns, Stupid. In it, Truthdig reports that:

“And that's the end of the issue”

Why do we have the same futile argument every time there is a mass killing? Advocates of gun control try to open a discussion about whether more reasonable weapons statutes might reduce the number of violent ... via Truthdig

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Truthdig.

Boston Marathon Tragedy

New Brunswick, NJ

#104675 Apr 15, 2013
Everyone please help reach my campaign goal. Help support our Boston Marathon runner's 3 people dead 141 wounded 8 seriously wounded in critical condition.

www.facebook.com/BostonMarathonTragedySupport Click share like donate anything.

Since: Dec 10

Glandore, Australia

#104676 Apr 15, 2013
Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
The gun control logic is we should disarm the police because a couple of them went berserk.
Noooooo, it is saying that none of you are safe from each other when you have access to weapons that can kill en mass, and the facts are that cops and the military have more experience in dealing with the enemy so when and if the few do go postal, they do it better and more proficiently than the average because of their familiarity with their weapons and jungle warfare...stands to reason, often the other nutters are just lucky.

“ WOOF ! ”

Since: Nov 12

Coolidge, AZ

#104677 Apr 15, 2013
DavidQ762 wrote:
<quoted text>
Nearly Every Mass Shooting In The Last 20 Years Shares One Thing In Common, & ItÂ’s NOT Weapons
Nearly every mass shooting incident in the last twenty years, and multiple other instances of suicide and isolated shootings all share one thing in common, and its not the weapons used.
The overwhelming evidence points to the signal largest common factor in all of these incidents is the fact that all of the perpetrators were either actively taking powerful psychotropic drugs or had been at some point in the immediate past before they committed their crimes.
http://www.ammoland.com/2013/04/every-mass-sh...
I agree.

As a contrast, in Mexico, many mass murders are for CRIMINAL and\or terrorist reasons, i.e. connected with the drug trade or for political means. The people who commit these mass murders are not insane.

But in the U.S., these mass murders seem to be commited only by insane people. Which makes them far more difficult, or actually impossible to prevent. If these people didn't use guns, they would use a knife, or knives, as one recent lunatic did, or IED's mae from commonly available household chemicals, and shrapnel bought at the local Home Depot.

And if someone REALLY wnats to kill a particular person, you really cannot do anything at all to stop it.

My you live in interesting times.

Since: Dec 10

Glandore, Australia

#104679 Apr 15, 2013
Tray wrote:
<quoted text> Who were told by their leaders "it was in the public's best interest to kill witches", an excuse to get rid of free thinkers. It was not witches that caused them to do bad things but DNA. "Mental" is another excuse. Humans are animals and like animals most are capable of horrific actions. Most who go postal are looking to go out in a blaze and want publicity for their actions. Stop giving it to them. Moral responsibility is making each responsible for their own actions without excuses. 30 days in the nut house and then back on the street time after time is not going to cut it anymore. Most of these killers had a mental history, it should be a place to start not a place to hide. Mental records are considered "medical records" therefore private. many of these "nuts" just start a "mental record" in order to get away with their crime later. "The Devil made me do it. See a shrink then you can get away with anything you want, "he's sick" "it's not his fault". Bull crap. Yes you are right, religion has killed more than guns ever could. Wars, ethnic cleansing, the crusades, the inquisition ect. ect.
The witch trials were the result of religious fanaticism and leaders of the church not your countries leaders...and the brainwashing that occurred was because good people never against what was happening....they same occurred over the war in Iraq, the few good voices were shouted out by lies and false evidence....the same with the pro gun lobby who use the second amendment as a way to fear gun owners into believing their government will stomp all over them if they don't support everything they put out there....it is ludicrous to think that grown people fall for such idealistic bullshit especially today where knowledge abounds...but there are those even though proof has shown the war on Iraq was based on lies, misinformation and false evidence given by spies that the CIA knew to be lying and unreliable, that still, yes I say still, believe that Hussein still has weapons of mass destruction hidden somewhere, you Yanks just haven't found them yet.....how is that for brainwashing?

Since: Dec 10

Glandore, Australia

#104680 Apr 15, 2013
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>Never went postal not like yourself your logic proves that.
Crime Rate Increases with Australia's gun Ban
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =hoAFOHbicqEXX
https://theconversation.com/faking-waves-how-...

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#104681 Apr 15, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
Just look at the Modern Pseudo Liberal controlled cities of Chicago & Washington DC where the Gun Control & Restrictions have been in place for years and the Criminals have been thriving ever since and the criminals know they cant go anywhere else that doesn't have gun control & restrictions in place since gun control & restrictions only work against law abiding citizens and work for the benefit of the criminals of society.
boredguy

Camperdown, Australia

#104682 Apr 15, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
He is not an Australian....he is a scumbag paid Topix troll that could be posting from anywhere in the world and does and uses many names with which to incite his audience...ie I am an Australian stiring the pot, so he becomes an Australian to aggravate and annoy..... so he is more likely an American Topix worker because of the past files and posts he accesses to use against the intended victim...on this thread it is anyone opposing the pro gun nutters.
That's right - anyone who disagrees with you couldn't possibly be an Australian living in Australia, it would have to be 'troll' posting from some foreign country.

"because of the past files and posts he accesses"

You've got an extended history of abusing and name calling. Everyone who reads or contributes to the Australia forum is aware of it.

Come to think of it, you fit the profile for a Topix troll - irrationality, ad hominem attacks on anyone who opposes your opinion, etc etc.

btw thicko, I don't support 'gun nutters'. That's just another one of your irrational assumptions.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#104683 Apr 15, 2013
boredguy wrote:
<quoted text>
That's right - anyone who disagrees with you couldn't possibly be an Australian living in Australia, it would have to be 'troll' posting from some foreign country.
"because of the past files and posts he accesses"
You've got an extended history of abusing and name calling. Everyone who reads or contributes to the Australia forum is aware of it.
Come to think of it, you fit the profile for a Topix troll - irrationality, ad hominem attacks on anyone who opposes your opinion, etc etc.
btw thicko, I don't support 'gun nutters'. That's just another one of your irrational assumptions.
anybody that is for Gun Control of any form is a "gun nutter" and supporter of the Criminals of Society and wants to empower them and here in the US all you have to do is look at Chicago & Washington DC for that as proof.

Since: Dec 10

Glandore, Australia

#104685 Apr 15, 2013
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>Just look at the Modern Pseudo Liberal controlled cities of Chicago & Washington DC where the Gun Control & Restrictions have been in place for years and the Criminals have been thriving ever since and the criminals know they cant go anywhere else that doesn't have gun control & restrictions in place since gun control & restrictions only work against law abiding citizens and work for the benefit of the criminals of society.
The problem in your country is that it can't be done state by state it must be done across the board else what stops someone from the next state taking guns in to those places with strong gun control laws, not a thing and that is what you use to convince yourself that gun control doesn't work...we have proved when gun control is implemented across the entire country it works...we know, we have the proof because we have done it right.....

Since: Dec 10

Glandore, Australia

#104686 Apr 15, 2013
boredguy wrote:
<quoted text>
That's right - anyone who disagrees with you couldn't possibly be an Australian living in Australia, it would have to be 'troll' posting from some foreign country.
"because of the past files and posts he accesses"
You've got an extended history of abusing and name calling. Everyone who reads or contributes to the Australia forum is aware of it.
Come to think of it, you fit the profile for a Topix troll - irrationality, ad hominem attacks on anyone who opposes your opinion, etc etc.
btw thicko, I don't support 'gun nutters'. That's just another one of your irrational assumptions.
Coulda, woulda, shoulda, NO, you are definitely a troll...and definitely not an Australian....
boredguy

Camperdown, Australia

#104687 Apr 15, 2013
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>Never went postal not like yourself your logic proves that.
Crime Rate Increases with Australia's gun Ban
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =hoAFOHbicqEXX
Australians own as many guns now as they did at the time of the Port Arthur massacre.

In fact, there's been a steady increase in the number of guns imported into Australia since 1996 but most gun deaths here are suicides and domestics. There were approx. 67000 guns imported into Australia in 2009/10, that was the highest number since 1996, not counting illegal guns smuggled in.

The cops do shoot people from time to time, but nothing like the US - but we don't have violent ghetto thugs offing each other and doing daily drive bys, killing women and kids etc.(with the exception of south west Sydney, where the criminal drug dealing Muslim Lebanese live. They mainly murder each other - or miss the target completely - so most people don't care much about it).

Switzerland has 45.7 firearms per 100 people and ranks no 3 in the world for private gun ownership but it's also one of the most peaceful countries. Same with Finland so gun ownership isn't the only issue.

Since: Dec 10

Glandore, Australia

#104688 Apr 15, 2013
boredguy wrote:
<quoted text>

"because of the past files and posts he accesses"
You've got an extended history of abusing and name calling. Everyone who reads or contributes to the Australia forum is aware of it.
Oh, and you have been a saint?...how many have you abused since you've been posting on this thread and how long have you been registered under this particular name and location?... I am from Perth and I have been here using the same name for three years I don't need to change it...and how is it you know so much about me and that I have an extended history of abuse(justified mind) unless you are a Topix spy who has that information on hand.......gees you are stupid.
boredguy

Camperdown, Australia

#104689 Apr 15, 2013
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>anybody that is for Gun Control of any form is a "gun nutter" and supporter of the Criminals of Society and wants to empower them and here in the US all you have to do is look at Chicago & Washington DC for that as proof.
Chicago has strict gun control laws (ban on handguns?) and one of the highest crime rates in the US. I know that - but gun violence seems to be out of control in some parts of the US (yes, I know which parts).

I don't see how disarming American citizens could be logically carried out without altering the Constitution which I don't believe would ever happen. So how do they propose to do it? Reduce manufacture of ammo? Restrict ammo to police and military?

“ WOOF ! ”

Since: Nov 12

Coolidge, AZ

#104690 Apr 15, 2013
boredguy wrote:
<quoted text>
Chicago has strict gun control laws (ban on handguns?) and one of the highest crime rates in the US. I know that - but gun violence seems to be out of control in some parts of the US (yes, I know which parts).
I don't see how disarming American citizens could be logically carried out without altering the Constitution which I don't believe would ever happen. So how do they propose to do it? Reduce manufacture of ammo? Restrict ammo to police and military?
As recent tragic massacres in the U.S. show, the problem isn't guns, the problem is insane people getting possession of guns. Remember that in the Sandy Hook massacre, where all those poor innocent children were brutally murdered by an insane man, the weapons he used were legally purchased, and legally possessed by his mother, WHOM HE MURDERED. There is NO LAW you could write to prevent that.

And the recent mass stabbings of a deranged person at the college who stabbed all those students. You DON'T need a gun to commit mass murder.

What we need is MORE EFFECTIVE measures to identify, and treat people with mental illnesses before they can harm, either by shooting, or stabbing, or some other means, innocent people.

And remember that if you OUTLAW guns and\or ammunition, then ONLY OUTLAWS (by definition) will possess them, and NOT innocent people who want to protect themselves.

My family is relatively small (including aunts, uncles and cousins), and we have had one family member murdered, and 3 family members commit suicide, and NONE of those people died as a result of a firearm.

Infringing on Americans' Second Amendment RIGHTS is not the solution to the so-called "gun problem".

And while I am a STRONG supporter of the Second Amendment and am a firm believer in Americans RIGHT to own firearms, I no longer own any firearms, as I have chosen not to do so any longer. And I live ONLY with my 4 cats.
boredguy

Camperdown, Australia

#104691 Apr 15, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
Coulda, woulda, shoulda, NO, you are definitely a troll...and definitely not an Australian....
Maybe I'm pretending to be an Australian like you're pretending to be a woman.

I said what I wanted to say to you, so go away. Don't make stupid comments about me and I won't respond to you (or any OP you use as an excuse to keep your bile flowing).
boredguy

Camperdown, Australia

#104692 Apr 15, 2013
Fa-Foxy wrote:
<quoted text>
As recent tragic massacres in the U.S. show, the problem isn't guns, the problem is insane people getting possession of guns. Remember that in the Sandy Hook massacre, where all those poor innocent children were brutally murdered by an insane man, the weapons he used were legally purchased, and legally possessed by his mother, WHOM HE MURDERED. There is NO LAW you could write to prevent that.
And the recent mass stabbings of a deranged person at the college who stabbed all those students. You DON'T need a gun to commit mass murder.
What we need is MORE EFFECTIVE measures to identify, and treat people with mental illnesses before they can harm, either by shooting, or stabbing, or some other means, innocent people.
And remember that if you OUTLAW guns and\or ammunition, then ONLY OUTLAWS (by definition) will possess them, and NOT innocent people who want to protect themselves.
My family is relatively small (including aunts, uncles and cousins), and we have had one family member murdered, and 3 family members commit suicide, and NONE of those people died as a result of a firearm.
Infringing on Americans' Second Amendment RIGHTS is not the solution to the so-called "gun problem".
And while I am a STRONG supporter of the Second Amendment and am a firm believer in Americans RIGHT to own firearms, I no longer own any firearms, as I have chosen not to do so any longer. And I live ONLY with my 4 cats.
I don't think its possible to look at guns as a single issue without taking into account psychotropic drugs and their affects on the brain because so many of the people who carry out massacres, school shootings etc are on psychotropic drugs.

Leading Australian psychiatrists are so worried about the latest version of the DSM5 that they're considering boycotting it eg, a new classification called Disruptive Mood Dysregulation Disorder classifying toddler tantrums as a mental illness.

Normal deep grief could also be re-classified as Major Depressive Disorder. Of course, these 'mental disorders' would need to be controlled by medication.

I read that in virtually every mass school shooting during the past 15 years, the shooter has been on or in withdrawal from psychiatric drugs. That opens a whole can of worms.
boredguy

Camperdown, Australia

#104693 Apr 15, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, and you have been a saint?...how many have you abused since you've been posting on this thread and how long have you been registered under this particular name and location?... I am from Perth and I have been here using the same name for three years I don't need to change it...and how is it you know so much about me and that I have an extended history of abuse(justified mind) unless you are a Topix spy who has that information on hand.......gees you are stupid.
Very profound. Now go away.

But I will answer your question, although I think I already did:
" how is it you know so much about me and that I have an extended history of abuse"

I've been reading Topix on and off for the past 3 years. You provided a lot of info about yourself (if its all true of course, but I'm assuming it is).

In answer to the second part of your question - I read your posts. People like you bring out the worst in me. And if anyone doubts that you have an extensive history of abuse and ad hominem attacks, they need only read your comments on this forum. I abuse Aussie hating trolls from time to time, but I don't throw moronic insults like 'hillybilly' and 'inbred' at OPs.

Now please go away.

“ WOOF ! ”

Since: Nov 12

Coolidge, AZ

#104695 Apr 15, 2013
boredguy wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't think its possible to look at guns as a single issue without taking into account psychotropic drugs and their affects on the brain because so many of the people who carry out massacres, school shootings etc are on psychotropic drugs.
Leading Australian psychiatrists are so worried about the latest version of the DSM5 that they're considering boycotting it eg, a new classification called Disruptive Mood Dysregulation Disorder classifying toddler tantrums as a mental illness.
Normal deep grief could also be re-classified as Major Depressive Disorder. Of course, these 'mental disorders' would need to be controlled by medication.
I read that in virtually every mass school shooting during the past 15 years, the shooter has been on or in withdrawal from psychiatric drugs. That opens a whole can of worms.
Regarding your last paragraph, I have also read that and heard that on the news with regards to this subject.

CLEARLY NOBODY has the answer, because I don't think there is one. To ELIMINATE this problem is simply not possible. REDUCING the occurrences of these mass murders I think is possible, but it is going to take a multi-pronged approach.

Also, does anyone know IF these types of mass shootings occurred 50 years ago ? 100 years ago ? 150 years ago ? The answer to those questions MIGHT have a bearing on addressing this problem.
boredguy

Camperdown, Australia

#104696 Apr 15, 2013
Fa-Foxy wrote:
<quoted text>
Regarding your last paragraph, I have also read that and heard that on the news with regards to this subject.
CLEARLY NOBODY has the answer, because I don't think there is one. To ELIMINATE this problem is simply not possible. REDUCING the occurrences of these mass murders I think is possible, but it is going to take a multi-pronged approach.
Also, does anyone know IF these types of mass shootings occurred 50 years ago ? 100 years ago ? 150 years ago ? The answer to those questions MIGHT have a bearing on addressing this problem.
I was thinking the same, I read that mass shootings in the US were rare before the 1980s and approx. 45% of the victims of mass shootings over the past 30 years were killed since 2007.

I wonder if this coincides with the rise in the use of psych drugs.

“ WOOF ! ”

Since: Nov 12

Coolidge, AZ

#104697 Apr 15, 2013
boredguy wrote:
<quoted text>
I was thinking the same, I read that mass shootings in the US were rare before the 1980s and approx. 45% of the victims of mass shootings over the past 30 years were killed since 2007.
I wonder if this coincides with the rise in the use of psych drugs.
Regarding your last sentence, you may very well be right, and I think that this should be investigated by scientists.

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