It's the Guns, Stupid

Apr 20, 2007 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Truthdig

“And that's the end of the issue”

Why do we have the same futile argument every time there is a mass killing? Advocates of gun control try to open a discussion about whether more reasonable weapons statutes might reduce the number of violent ... via Truthdig

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96,801 - 96,820 of 103,234 Comments Last updated Jun 22, 2014
british oppression

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#103492
Apr 5, 2013
 

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Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
How does that solve the problem Americans have with an over use of guns that are not necessary where is the logic? It shows how clearly it is imbedded in your pshyche to continue to believe you are being put upon even by a simple and reasonable aim for reducing assault weapons to limit the deaths incurred by them....you are no hoppers and clearly want to live in a country dominated by the gun and not common sense....else these weapons would be dumped in a crushing machine by any lengths of the imagination of saner countries....Those who live by the sword die by the sword and it couldn't happen to a better country. LOL
1. Taxation Without Representation
To fund its military projects, and to assert its control over an increasingly independent group of colonies, Britain began to enforce painfully high taxes and tariffs on such goods as molasses, paper, sugar, and tea. With no representation in Parliament, American colonists who felt the taxes to be excessive had no recourse other than civil disobedience.
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2. No Free Trade
During the 18th century, Britain was an empire in competition, sometimes militarily and sometimes economically, with other empires. In order to prevent other nations from benefitting from the North American colonial market, Britain brought its navy to bear against U.S. attempts to purchase non-British goods. Given the prohibitively high trade tarrifs enforced by Britain (see below), this policy was for all practical purposes unenforceable.
3. Unlimited Search and Seizure
To discourage smuggling, the British government awarded Writs of Assistance to British officers in the colonies. The Writs gave officers the power to search any residence or building, without warning or supervision, and to confiscate whatever they deemed to be smuggled or otherwise improperly obtained goods. This widely abused policy would ultimately inspire the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.
4. Destruction of Colonial Government
The governments of the colonies, unrepresented in the British system and remote from the imperial legislative process, began to create their own elected bodies. The British government did not care for this idea, and took extra measures to see to it that local elected colonial government did not achieve autonomy, even with respect to matters that did not directly affect the larger British Empire.
5. Oppression of Political Protesters
As colonial protest against British government became more common, British colonial law enforcement authorities took measures to crack down on dissent. Among the more infamous examples of this were the 1769 imprisonment of Alexander McDougall (on "libel" charges) for his work To the Betrayed Inhabitants of the City and Colony of New York, and the 1770 Boston Massacre in which British troops fired on a crowd of colonial protesters, killing five
6. Immunity for Corrupt and Abusive British Officers
The Boston Massacre trial was an interesting spectacle. Eight British soldiers were accused, but defended by the future president John Adams, who won acquittal for six of the eight and the equivalent to a dishonorable discharge for the other two. Still, British leaders were concerned enough to pass a law mandating that any British officers accused of an offense be tried in England (where witnesses would be hard to find) rather than in the colonies.
7. Direct Control of the Criminal Justice System
Over a period of decades, as distrust of colonial authorities grew, the British government began to deny jury trials
colt45

Australia

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#103494
Apr 5, 2013
 

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Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
It is reminiscent of the NRA and supporters chant (it's not the guns) they have nothing to support their argument so they chant nonsense and propaganda........yada,yada,ya da, yuk yuk.
DOWN WITH THE NRA....DOWN WITH THE NRA....DOWN WITH THE NRA......
Many international treaties may well be NULL AND VOID! Thatís right, under international law, the governments of Australia, New Zealand and Canada don't have any legitimate authority to govern the inhabitants of those countries and their parliaments hold no lawful rights to represent Independent Sovereign Nations.
The questions for you are: What are their representatives doing in the Solomon Islands and what authority do they have to be here?
It seems fantasy is not confined to the pages of fairy tales. An essential component of all fiction is that the story is essentially false - a lie as it were - but depicted in such a way as to capture the imagination of the audience, sweeping them into a world of make believe as they observe, spellbound by the complexities of the storyline.
Itís about time your blindfolds were removed to allow you to see the truth and after reading this article, anyone that continues to allow this massive fraud and deception becomes a guilty party to it!
At this point, you will want me to prove these claims and ask if I have any proof. The answer is YES I DO and the proof is easily accessible to you all. The following information will relate predominantly to Australia, but what has to be remembered, is that New Zealand and Canada are also in the exact same position.
colt45

Australia

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#103495
Apr 5, 2013
 

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Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
None of it is nonsense.
I'm using my guns to protect my family and myself from those that will do direct and immediate harm to myself or family.
A: You are not being prevented from doing that so why do you keep going on about it.
You know the criminal element in both Co & CT are small compared to the law abiding and decent responsible citizens of those states.
Stronger restrictions will mostly affect them and their ability to protect their families. Criminals don't obey the law so really this legislation does Nothing to stop 98% of the Real gun violence (the criminal). In fact it's counter productive being that Now the good guy, who obey's the law has more hurdles to jump to protect himself.
Why are you so much for letting real criminals off the hook and so against letting the good guys defend themselves from it?
A: I am for strong laws being enforced, be it against criminals or gun control....you can't have one without the other, and the argument that your country is having, is to get rid of assault guns for a safer community, so why are you against that? it is not like you don't still have plenty of other guns to chose from and they will kill, which is what you want....just not en masse like a an assault weapon...
Whilst the Japanese government is fully aware that the Australian government can't prove the Commonwealth of Australia is a nation it knows it has nothing to fear from that government's threat to take its anti-whaling case to the International Court of Justice. This year Australia's Antarctic waters will run blood-red again! The American government has scientists searching for natural resources on the Antarctic territories of Australia and New Zealand because those territories were given by the United Nations and neither country can prove it has the national standing (locus standi) to enforce its territorial rights!

Meanwhile, low calibre, spineless Australian politicians like Dr. Bob Brown, Parliamentary Leader of the Australian Greens would rather maintain the illusion of Australia's sovereignty, obtain his salary and protect his superannuation than do anything realistic to stop Japanese whaling in 'Australian' Antarctic waters. Likewise all of Australia's posturing, self-centred parliamentarians, before they can take their parliamentary seats, must take an oath or affirmation to a foreign monarch appointed by a foreign parliament half a world away in Westminster! This is mandatory and specified in 'their' constitution (see: section 42 Commonwealth of Australia Constitution Act, 1900).

But it gets worse Ė a whole lot worse. On the 11th of August, 2003 the 24th Governor-General to Australia, Major General Philip Michael Jeffery AC, CVO, MC was appointed to his position by a forged instrument. We know this because we were told by Baron Falconer, who at the time was British Lord Chancellor. Apparently an out of date Royal Seal was used and the public record clearly shows that Queen Elizabeth II wasn't anywhere near the place of signing as specified on the face of Jeffery's Appointment document! See: the Forgery and Counterfeiting Act, 1981 (UK).

Further to the subject of Governor Generals Ė as there have been no legitimate appointments in that regard, did Australian Governor-General Kerr have any authority to sack the Whitlam Government in February 1975?- He Ďallegedlyí received his first pay-off of $US200, 000.00 credited to his account number 767748 at the Singapore branch of the Nugan Hand Bank In December 1974, to do just that!

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

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#103496
Apr 5, 2013
 
colt45 wrote:
<quoted text>
Whilst the Japanese government is fully aware that the Australian government can't prove the Commonwealth of Australia is a nation it knows it has nothing to fear from that government's threat to take its anti-whaling case to the International Court of Justice. This year Australia's Antarctic waters will run blood-red again! The American government has scientists searching for natural resources on the Antarctic territories of Australia and New Zealand because those territories were given by the United Nations and neither country can prove it has the national standing (locus standi) to enforce its territorial rights!
Meanwhile, low calibre, spineless Australian politicians like Dr. Bob Brown, Parliamentary Leader of the Australian Greens would rather maintain the illusion of Australia's sovereignty, obtain his salary and protect his superannuation than do anything realistic to stop Japanese whaling in 'Australian' Antarctic waters. Likewise all of Australia's posturing, self-centred parliamentarians, before they can take their parliamentary seats, must take an oath or affirmation to a foreign monarch appointed by a foreign parliament half a world away in Westminster! This is mandatory and specified in 'their' constitution (see: section 42 Commonwealth of Australia Constitution Act, 1900).
But it gets worse Ė a whole lot worse. On the 11th of August, 2003 the 24th Governor-General to Australia, Major General Philip Michael Jeffery AC, CVO, MC was appointed to his position by a forged instrument. We know this because we were told by Baron Falconer, who at the time was British Lord Chancellor. Apparently an out of date Royal Seal was used and the public record clearly shows that Queen Elizabeth II wasn't anywhere near the place of signing as specified on the face of Jeffery's Appointment document! See: the Forgery and Counterfeiting Act, 1981 (UK).
Further to the subject of Governor Generals Ė as there have been no legitimate appointments in that regard, did Australian Governor-General Kerr have any authority to sack the Whitlam Government in February 1975?- He Ďallegedlyí received his first pay-off of $US200, 000.00 credited to his account number 767748 at the Singapore branch of the Nugan Hand Bank In December 1974, to do just that!
Australia was started as a penal colony so nothing phases us.....and look where we are!...We have one of the strongest economies in the world, outdoing countries like the US, UK, Italy, we dodged the global crisis and we are happy because we can speak our minds freely and don't need guns to do it for us, we take everything in our stride....it's all good.

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

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#103497
Apr 5, 2013
 

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colt45 wrote:
<quoted text>Many international treaties may well be NULL AND VOID! Thatís right, under international law, the governments of Australia, New Zealand and Canada don't have any legitimate authority to govern the inhabitants of those countries and their parliaments hold no lawful rights to represent Independent Sovereign Nations.
The questions for you are: What are their representatives doing in the Solomon Islands and what authority do they have to be here?
It seems fantasy is not confined to the pages of fairy tales. An essential component of all fiction is that the story is essentially false - a lie as it were - but depicted in such a way as to capture the imagination of the audience, sweeping them into a world of make believe as they observe, spellbound by the complexities of the storyline.
Itís about time your blindfolds were removed to allow you to see the truth and after reading this article, anyone that continues to allow this massive fraud and deception becomes a guilty party to it!
At this point, you will want me to prove these claims and ask if I have any proof. The answer is YES I DO and the proof is easily accessible to you all. The following information will relate predominantly to Australia, but what has to be remembered, is that New Zealand and Canada are also in the exact same position.
Well what ever they are doing it is working better than most of the other countries...maybe those countries that are suffering from the global crisis should give our form of governing a go...couldn't hurt and by all accounts it works.Try it.

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

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#103498
Apr 5, 2013
 
british oppression wrote:
<quoted text>1. Taxation Without Representation
To fund its military projects, and to assert its control over an increasingly independent group of colonies, Britain began to enforce painfully high taxes and tariffs on such goods as molasses, paper, sugar, and tea. With no representation in Parliament, American colonists who felt the taxes to be excessive had no recourse other than civil disobedience.
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2. No Free Trade
During the 18th century, Britain was an empire in competition, sometimes militarily and sometimes economically, with other empires. In order to prevent other nations from benefitting from the North American colonial market, Britain brought its navy to bear against U.S. attempts to purchase non-British goods. Given the prohibitively high trade tarrifs enforced by Britain (see below), this policy was for all practical purposes unenforceable.
3. Unlimited Search and Seizure
To discourage smuggling, the British government awarded Writs of Assistance to British officers in the colonies. The Writs gave officers the power to search any residence or building, without warning or supervision, and to confiscate whatever they deemed to be smuggled or otherwise improperly obtained goods. This widely abused policy would ultimately inspire the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.
4. Destruction of Colonial Government
The governments of the colonies, unrepresented in the British system and remote from the imperial legislative process, began to create their own elected bodies. The British government did not care for this idea, and took extra measures to see to it that local elected colonial government did not achieve autonomy, even with respect to matters that did not directly affect the larger British Empire.
5. Oppression of Political Protesters
As colonial protest against British government became more common, British colonial law enforcement authorities took measures to crack down on dissent. Among the more infamous examples of this were the 1769 imprisonment of Alexander McDougall (on "libel" charges) for his work To the Betrayed Inhabitants of the City and Colony of New York, and the 1770 Boston Massacre in which British troops fired on a crowd of colonial protesters, killing five
6. Immunity for Corrupt and Abusive British Officers
The Boston Massacre trial was an interesting spectacle. Eight British soldiers were accused, but defended by the future president John Adams, who won acquittal for six of the eight and the equivalent to a dishonorable discharge for the other two. Still, British leaders were concerned enough to pass a law mandating that any British officers accused of an offense be tried in England (where witnesses would be hard to find) rather than in the colonies.
7. Direct Control of the Criminal Justice System
Over a period of decades, as distrust of colonial authorities grew, the British government began to deny jury trials
The point is Britain was a force to be reckoned with and if they hadn't done it, someone else would (and before she became strong) others did, Britain have since relinquished their hold on most of their colonies so they are no longer the force they were, but we, like America, Canada etc should be grateful for their bravery because if it weren't for the British colonisation Anglo's would never have lived and triumphed in such beautiful places....
Spocko

Oakland, CA

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#103499
Apr 5, 2013
 

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DavidQ762 wrote:
<quoted text>
Not quite, DOLT. And those 'restrictions' in Colorado and Connecticut are sure to be contested in court.
It doesn't matter what >you< [supposedly]'think'. Your 'opinion' is of ZERO consequence to me.
Clearly your life is truly a comedy of errors, you really think anyone is going to listen to friggen buffoons like you? Now that some rightwing school districts are falsifying records, whom can we believe? Perhaps schools ought to return to more useful studies such as reading, writing and arithmetic or how about defensive driving?
When will the National Rifler fanatics acknowledge that the 2nd amendment originated when our weapon of choice was a single-shot muzzle-loader vs. the bow and arrow. So whatís next after AKRsÖ a mortar in every garage?
And now we could have local police training teachers to use pistols to defend our students. Wow Ė what a country! Studies have shown that the average law enforcer is far from an accurate shot let alone a peace-loving teacher. We already knew he was too old and overweight to catch a fleeing teen-ager. Seems to me we need some sensible thinking to counter the gun manufacturers or do we really think the NRA blowhards are some sort of neutral and unbiased party to be trusted?
Since Sandy Hook there have been about 1,280 gun deaths in the United States. Among the top 23 developed countries, the United States has 80 percent of all deaths by guns; 86 percent of all women killed with guns are in the United States and 87 percent of all children killed with guns are in the United States. A few years ago people got fed up with all the deaths by drunk drivers, and we now have sensible laws that have saved countless lives. And, Iím almost certain to realize that bars and liquor stores have not gone out of business. Sensible laws on guns are badly needed, replacing the hotchpotch of useless gun laws that we have now! What we donít need are fools like you and your ilk trying to turn us into a society where itís every man for himself and the guys with the biggest and baddest gun makes all the rules.
Proud Misogynist

Glen Iris, Australia

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#103500
Apr 5, 2013
 

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STFU you f*cking idiots!

If you wanna chat about this stupid american sh*t, then go chat on an american forum!

100,000 posts about this stupid sh*t? Are you serious?!

MEN > women

“Tilt my hat at the sun”

Since: Jun 12

And the shadows they burn dark

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#103501
Apr 5, 2013
 

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Proud Misogynist wrote:
STFU you f*cking idiots!
If you wanna chat about this stupid american sh*t, then go chat on an american forum!
100,000 posts about this stupid sh*t? Are you serious?!
MEN > women
It's a general thread, whacko.
It shows up in the Australian, American & possibly other Topix subforums.
Teaman

Mount Holly, NJ

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#103502
Apr 5, 2013
 

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Spocko wrote:
<quoted text>
Clearly your life is truly a comedy of errors, you really think anyone is going to listen to friggen buffoons like you? Now that some rightwing school districts are falsifying records, whom can we believe? Perhaps schools ought to return to more useful studies such as reading, writing and arithmetic or how about defensive driving?
When will the National Rifler fanatics acknowledge that the 2nd amendment originated when our weapon of choice was a single-shot muzzle-loader vs. the bow and arrow. So whatís next after AKRsÖ a mortar in every garage?
And now we could have local police training teachers to use pistols to defend our students. Wow Ė what a country! Studies have shown that the average law enforcer is far from an accurate shot let alone a peace-loving teacher. We already knew he was too old and overweight to catch a fleeing teen-ager. Seems to me we need some sensible thinking to counter the gun manufacturers or do we really think the NRA blowhards are some sort of neutral and unbiased party to be trusted?
Since Sandy Hook there have been about 1,280 gun deaths in the United States. Among the top 23 developed countries, the United States has 80 percent of all deaths by guns; 86 percent of all women killed with guns are in the United States and 87 percent of all children killed with guns are in the United States. A few years ago people got fed up with all the deaths by drunk drivers, and we now have sensible laws that have saved countless lives. And, Iím almost certain to realize that bars and liquor stores have not gone out of business. Sensible laws on guns are badly needed, replacing the hotchpotch of useless gun laws that we have now! What we donít need are fools like you and your ilk trying to turn us into a society where itís every man for himself and the guys with the biggest and baddest gun makes all the rules.
Right wing school districts!? You're too funny. Oh! because it's in Georgia you think it's right wing. For those out on the west coast, there's Atlanta and then there's Georgia all around it.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/item/149...

I'm not giving up my mortar for anyone.

Ya see, drunk driving incidents went down in numbers because of enhanced fines and sentencing. Not because they banned alcohol. Criminal control always works, not punishing law abiding people.
Teaman

Mount Holly, NJ

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#103503
Apr 5, 2013
 

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Proud Misogynist wrote:
STFU you f*cking idiots!
If you wanna chat about this stupid american sh*t, then go chat on an american forum!
100,000 posts about this stupid sh*t? Are you serious?!
MEN > women
Did you break up with your boyfriend? You seem to have a problem with women, just wondering.

Since: Feb 13

United States

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We all know that guns can cost lives bc the media repeats this message endlessly as if we couldnt figure it out ourselves. But even someone who reads newspapers reglarly and watches numerous tv newscast may never learn that guns also save lives.
Much less see any hard facts comparing how many lives are lost and how many saved.
The defensive use of guns is usually not discussed at all in the media or is depicted as if it means bullets were flying in all directions. But most defensive use of guns do not involve pulling the trigger at all.
If someone comes towards you with a knife and you pull a gun on him he is very unlikely to keep coming, and will probably head in the opposite dirction, unless he's an idiot. And if he is an idiot you had better have a trigger to pull.
Surveys of american gun owners have found that 4 to 6 percent of gunowners have used their guns for self defense in the past five years.
Now that sounds like a small percentage, but in a country with over 300 million people that translates into hundreds of thousands of defensive uses per year.
Yet we almost never hear about these hundreds of thousands defensive uses of guns from the media, which will report the killing of a dozen people endlessly around the clock. The killing of a dozen people is a tradegy. But that is no excuse of reacting blindly by preventing hundreds of thousands of other people of defending themselves from meeting the same fate.
Although most defensive acts do not involve pulling the trigger nevertheless the total number of criminals killed by private armed citizens runs into the thousands per year.
Every story about an accidental shooting is repeated again and again on the media, while a thousand stories about lives saved by defensive gun uses never see the light of day in most newspapers and tv newscast.
More children die of bathtub accidents then shooting accidents, but you would never know that by listing to the tv or reading the newspapers. Some in the media inflate the number of children killed by counting as children the number of criminal teenage gang members killing each other in turf fights.
Many seize upon statistics that show britian has stronger gun control laws then the u.s. and lower murder rates. Yet they ignor other countries that also have stricter gun control the america, but which has much higher murder rates, such as brazil, mexico, and russia.
Today virtually the entire population of law abiding citizens in britan are disarmed--and gun crimes are steadily on the rise, as is murder.
Gun control makes crime a more safer occupation when the victims are unarmed.
The gun control cusade today is much like the prohibition crusade of a hundred years ago. It is a shared zealotry that binds the self rightious know-it-alls (people like ahomana) in a warm fellowship of those who see themselves as fighting the forces of evil. It is a lofty role that they are not about to give up for anything so mudane as facts---or even the lives of other people.

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

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#103513
Apr 5, 2013
 

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DavidQ762 wrote:
<quoted text>
We'll see if you feel the same when your new Chinese 'masters' take control of your government....
Well it is either them or you or some other power monger thinking they have a right to tell the world how to live, try to control your resources to the point they make up lies to kill hundreds of thousands of people to get what they need to keep themselves going and bugger everyone else....you are not brainless enough to think America as a super power is better or worse than say China or Britain, seriously? Hows about you take a good look at what has been America's legacy to the world as a super power...China will be no different, nor will it consider anyone but themselves. We like most of the other small nations have to do what we do best and keep peace among ourselves in spite of the constant ongoing damage that the super power of the day tries to evoke, through lies, manipulation, propaganda and war.
Spocko

Oakland, CA

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#103514
Apr 5, 2013
 

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Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
Right wing school districts!? You're too funny. Oh! because it's in Georgia you think it's right wing. For those out on the west coast, there's Atlanta and then there's Georgia all around it.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/item/149...
I'm not giving up my mortar for anyone.
Ya see, drunk driving incidents went down in numbers because of enhanced fines and sentencing. Not because they banned alcohol. Criminal control always works, not punishing law abiding people.
Think again if that is possible, alcohol is strictly controlled and is most certainly banned, or prohibited by age, by location and even by geography. The unlawful manufacture, distribution, possession, use or sale of alcohol, or underage consumption of alcohol is strictly prohibited and enforced in every state of the Union!
Spocko

Oakland, CA

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#103515
Apr 5, 2013
 

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crawlfish wrote:
We all know that guns can cost lives bc the media repeats this message endlessly as if we couldnt figure it out ourselves. But even someone who reads newspapers reglarly and watches numerous tv newscast may never learn that guns also save lives.
Much less see any hard facts comparing how many lives are lost and how many saved.
The defensive use of guns is usually not discussed at all in the media or is depicted as if it means bullets were flying in all directions. But most defensive use of guns do not involve pulling the trigger at all.
If someone comes towards you with a knife and you pull a gun on him he is very unlikely to keep coming, and will probably head in the opposite dirction, unless he's an idiot. And if he is an idiot you had better have a trigger to pull.
Surveys of american gun owners have found that 4 to 6 percent of gunowners have used their guns for self defense in the past five years.
Now that sounds like a small percentage, but in a country with over 300 million people that translates into hundreds of thousands of defensive uses per year.
Yet we almost never hear about these hundreds of thousands defensive uses of guns from the media, which will report the killing of a dozen people endlessly around the clock. The killing of a dozen people is a tradegy. But that is no excuse of reacting blindly by preventing hundreds of thousands of other people of defending themselves from meeting the same fate.
Although most defensive acts do not involve pulling the trigger nevertheless the total number of criminals killed by private armed citizens runs into the thousands per year.
Every story about an accidental shooting is repeated again and again on the media, while a thousand stories about lives saved by defensive gun uses never see the light of day in most newspapers and tv newscast.
More children die of bathtub accidents then shooting accidents, but you would never know that by listing to the tv or reading the newspapers. Some in the media inflate the number of children killed by counting as children the number of criminal teenage gang members killing each other in turf fights.
Many seize upon statistics that show britian has stronger gun control laws then the u.s. and lower murder rates. Yet they ignor other countries that also have stricter gun control the america, but which has much higher murder rates, such as brazil, mexico, and russia.
Today virtually the entire population of law abiding citizens in britan are disarmed--and gun crimes are steadily on the rise, as is murder.
Gun control makes crime a more safer occupation when the victims are unarmed.
The gun control cusade today is much like the prohibition crusade of a hundred years ago. It is a shared zealotry that binds the self rightious know-it-alls (people like ahomana) in a warm fellowship of those who see themselves as fighting the forces of evil. It is a lofty role that they are not about to give up for anything so mudane as facts---or even the lives of other people.
In the Twilight Zone -- certainly!!
Spocko

Oakland, CA

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#103516
Apr 5, 2013
 

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DavidQ762 wrote:
<quoted text>
"Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and EVERY OTHER TERRIBLE IMPLEMENT of the soldier, are the BIRTHRIGHT of an American .... The unlimited power of the sword is NOT in the hands of either the federal or state government, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the PEOPLE."--Tench Coxe, Pennsylvania Gazette, February 1788.(Mr. Coxe was a leading proponent of the Constitution and Bill of Rights and an American political economist and a delegate for Pennsylvania to the Continental Congress in 1788-1789. He was appointed revenue commissioner by President George Washington on June 30, 1792).
""The right of the people to bear arms shall not be infringed." The right of the whole people, old and young, men, women and boys, and not militia only, to keep and bear arms of EVERY description, NOT such merely as are used by the militia, shall NOT be infringed, curtailed, or broken in upon, in the SMALLEST degree; and all this for the important end to be attained: the rearing up and qualifying a well-regulated militia, so vitally necessary to the security of a free State. Our opinion is, that any law, State or Federal, is repugnant to the Constitution, and void, which contravenes this right, originally belonging to our forefathers, trampled under foot by Charles I. and his two wicked sons and successors, reestablished by the revolution of 1688, conveyed to this land of liberty by the colonists, and finally incorporated conspicuously in our own Magna Charta! And Lexington, Concord, Camden, River Raisin, Sandusky, and the laurel-crowned field of New Orleans, plead eloquently for this interpretation!"--Chief Justice Collier, Nunn v. State, 1 Ga.(1 Kel.) 243 (1846).
Take a hike, you cowardly and treasonous sycophant troll.
Don't worry, no one is going take your precious little gun away - just think you'd cease to be a real man. Of course it is perfectly legal to be as stupid as friggen salted slug as well -- lucky for you!!
Tray

Blue Springs, MS

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Apr 5, 2013
 

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Spocko wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't worry, no one is going take your precious little gun away - just think you'd cease to be a real man. Of course it is perfectly legal to be as stupid as friggen salted slug as well -- lucky for you!!
Your right, NO ONE is taking my guns. Your liberal liars are caught over and over trying to spread your lies and many are fleeing the sinking ship. I guess they forgot the last attempt to remove peoples rights ended in most of them out of a job. However this time they are catching on faster and leaving poor pitiful you out in the cold. I guess you are one of the last to realize The King has no clothes. Ha Ha Ha. Poor poor loser.
AXIS

Walnut, CA

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#103520
Apr 5, 2013
 

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amazed wrote:
Some idiotic nra member said it wouldnt have happened if all the students had guns. Try tell me that aint brainless.
I would rather die than lose my freedom, cars kill just as many people so why not ban cars and make people travel on horses or foot? Guns themselves do not kill, they require a PERSON to use it to kill. So if your so paranoid make it that there are some areas where you cannot bring guns and some areas where you can.

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

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#103521
Apr 5, 2013
 

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crawlfish wrote:
We all know that guns can cost lives bc the media repeats this message endlessly as if we couldnt figure it out ourselves. But even someone who reads newspapers reglarly and watches numerous tv newscast may never learn that guns also save lives.
Much less see any hard facts comparing how many lives are lost and how many saved.
A: The reality is that guns cost more lives than they save, there would be a lot of people in places like Iraq and Afghanistan, America, Australia that would be alive today without them...Port Arthur, Columbine etc.

The defensive use of guns is usually not discussed at all in the media or is depicted as if it means bullets were flying in all directions. But most defensive use of guns do not involve pulling the trigger at all.
If someone comes towards you with a knife and you pull a gun on him he is very unlikely to keep coming, and will probably head in the opposite dirction, unless he's an idiot. And if he is an idiot you had better have a trigger to pull.
A: It would be more likely that a gun would be pulled on you in America than a knife, and you had better make sure you have the bigger one....so where does it end...

Surveys of american gun owners have found that 4 to 6 percent of gunowners have used their guns for self defense in the past five years.
Now that sounds like a small percentage, but in a country with over 300 million people that translates into hundreds of thousands of defensive uses per year.
A: Evidence to back that up would be a fine thing...you are also not taking into account that those with guns will more likely go looking for trouble or hit it head on, so the result will more likely be imminent.
Yet we almost never hear about these hundreds of thousands defensive uses of guns from the media, which will report the killing of a dozen people endlessly around the clock. The killing of a dozen people is a tradegy. But that is no excuse of reacting blindly by preventing hundreds of thousands of other people of defending themselves from meeting the same fate.
A: The reason you don't hear about all the lives saved by guns is, evidence as most people need this in order to believe such furfy's.
Again I will state that no one in your country is trying to take that right from you, if anything they meet with irrational opposition just to safe guard the kids at schools, where most people listen to the fear and hate propaganda of the NRA instead of thinking in rational terms about safety and moving to effect positive change for these innocents...accept for places like Colorado and Connecticut, and well done to them...they have implemented change with adult maturity.
Although most defensive acts do not involve pulling the trigger nevertheless the total number of criminals killed by private armed citizens runs into the thousands per year.
A: Evidence please Crawfish, it is your freind...I know you gun owners love to blow your own horn and god knows there are more of you out there than those who deal with facts and reality....but evidence would be a fine thing, and factual, indisputable evidence is like a slap in the face for any opposition....

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

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#103522
Apr 5, 2013
 

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Cont: Every story about an accidental shooting is repeated again and again on the media, while a thousand stories about lives saved by defensive gun uses never see the light of day in most newspapers and tv newscast.
A: Of course any death especially a massacre of children with be reported over and over....these victims are dead!...It is important that these horrific tales of lost lives, by a/or many persons with an arsenal be told as many times as it takes, because is the shame we should bear, and it takes more than this type of in your face reporting to get through the thick skin of some of you.... This isn't someone robbing your home or running over your foot, there is no tomorrow for them(what could anyone possible do to warrant such treatment and then have it followed up by an indefensive gun stance from the NRA and their supporters?)....these people are dead,fini, murdered, and innocent, they were shot to death often multiple times at close range, through no fault of their own, in a place that should have proffered them safety and freedom....Do you gun supporters live in the real world?
More children die of bathtub accidents then shooting accidents, but you would never know that by listing to the tv or reading the newspapers. Some in the media inflate the number of children killed by counting as children the number of criminal teenage gang members killing each other in turf fights.
A: This is what we have come to expect from gun supporters, lies in the face of murder....denial and excuses for the ownership of guns more than the lives taken from shootings.
Many seize upon statistics that show britian has stronger gun control laws then the u.s. and lower murder rates. Yet they ignor other countries that also have stricter gun control the america, but which has much higher murder rates, such as brazil, mexico, and russia.
A: Again you have not stated the facts as they exist.
America is the greatest obstacle in Mexico dealing with drug cartells and the mass murders they commit....American guns and ammo are the predominant weapons illegally crossing the border into a country fighting hard to bring these cartells to bear...
Today virtually the entire population of law abiding citizens in britan are disarmed--and gun crimes are steadily on the rise, as is murder.
A: Explain that to one to me then yourself, with factual evidence where guns are restricted, yet more and more people are getting shot....where are these guns coming from...they can't be legal so who is bringing them in or how and why? Gun restrictions do work and there are many countries that are proof of this...

Gun control makes crime a more safer occupation when the victims are unarmed.
The gun control cusade today is much like the prohibition crusade of a hundred years ago. It is a shared zealotry that binds the self rightious know-it-alls (people like ahomana) in a warm fellowship of those who see themselves as fighting the forces of evil. It is a lofty role that they are not about to give up for anything so mudane as facts---or even the lives of other people.
A: Here comes the paranoia straight from the gun owners manual...State anywhere where the government has taken your weapon the one you keep at home, where they have walked in and physically removed that gun and so now you have none...show me this...they haven't nor have they removed the law stating that you have a right to have it...so live your life of paranoid fear as that is all you have to cling on to because the government isn't knocking your door down to rob your of your weapon to protect your wife and your kids or go out and kill your own meat.....IT IS ALL IN YOUR FECKIN' HEAD!

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